Your thoughts?

[Bill1991]

Hi all! I've spent some time on these forums and they've been incredibly helpful. I was hoping to get some thoughts. I just want to make sure I'm not overlooking anything.


I'm looking for something around 0.9-1.1 carats, true hearts cut, f-d color, >vs1 clarity. My budget is 6000-7500.

I've found this but wanted your thoughts. https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...color-vs1-clarity-True-hearts-cut-sku-3258337


Thanks!

 

[ac117]

Hi all! I've spent some time on these forums and they've been incredibly helpful. I was hoping to get some thoughts. I just want to make sure I'm not overlooking anything.


I'm looking for something around 0.9-1.1 carats, true hearts cut, f-d color, >vs1 clarity. My budget is 6000-7500.

I've found this but wanted your thoughts. https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...color-vs1-clarity-True-hearts-cut-sku-3258337


Thanks!

Your choice is a beautiful stone - may I ask why you're going for such high color and clarity, though? I would prefer one of the following stones, which give you a good balance of size, price and specs. A VS2 stone at this size will almost always be eye clean and G is still very white.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3303128
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3251193
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3122321
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...e-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3331573
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3098381
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2757464

 

[Bill1991]

Hmmm.. there are a couple of reasons, some general and some more specific to me. It is a bit embarrassing to say but the gf has a few sisters and while I'm sure G and Excellent cut would be great, I worry that if/when they compare rings, it will be obvious (again, I know completely materialistic and stupid but to me that makes going up to F/E and True Hearts cut but losing 10-15 points on carat reasonable).

More specifically, we're both in the science/medical fields and unfortunately will have and have access to microscopes and surgical loupes and I know that one day, one of us (probably me) will look at the ring under surgical loupes (5-10x magnification) and high powered light, see a VS2 worthy inclusion which normally isn't detectable by eye, and then lose sleep over it.

I appreciate your feedback ac117 (as well as your comment about my choice). Would this stone be a good performer for my particular situation?

 

[rockysalamander]

As a fellow scientist, I think you are looking at this the wrong way. A diamond is a mineral with specific physical parameters. Inclusions in diamonds are natural and, in fact, are a way to be sure that not only do you have a genuine diamond -- but the specific diamond you bought. They offer a 'birth mark' to every stone. Looking at inclusions under magnification is incredibly cool and a learning lesson in and of itself to see the wide variety of shapes, colours and formations. They are a normal part of a diamond. Being graded into a category is simply a reflection of normalizing what can be seen with eyes and a 10x loupe. If you loupe or microscope your VS1, you will see inclusions at 10x. If you put them under higher magnification, you will see even more. VS1 is not free of inclusions, nor is internally flawless free of all inclusions at high magnification. Beyond 10x, you will see stuff. The fact that you see stuff at 10x bears no reality to what you see with your eyes. Why is 10x the standars, IDK. My grandmother once told me it was because making optics with 10x loupes could be done consistently and inexpensively without loss of light to see the subject stone...it is also well outside even the most eagle-eyed viewers.

If you want your GF's ring to blow away her sister, worry about cut not colour or clarity. The cut is what creates the sparkle. Super-ideals are cut to higher levels of precision. When looked at under magnification, you will see a precision to all planes that meet. So, on the girdle where 8 planes need to come to a point, you will see a point.

For a super-ideal, you can safely choose and I colour and with some help a VS2. That will make her sister's drool with envy over the cut. I'm a work and can't search right now, but I did see a .9x H ACA on WF this morning for right around $6800. Don't pull the trigger on this diamond for a few hours and give PSers a chance to show you some options. Look at the spread (size in mm), not the carat weight. Super-ideals have larger spread for their weight as compared to many others.

Whiteflash
HighPerformanceDiamonds
Brian Gavin Select

 

[tyty333]

Here are a few Super Ideal H&A AGS000 stones in your price range/specs
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3876800.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3816362.htm

I dont think you really need to max out your budget (you're already high in the color range and pretty decent in the clarity range) but...
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3811469.htm

The stone you picked is nice though. If you think there is any chance of upgrade in the future, Whiteflash has the best up grade policy. Only have to spend
the same amount of money. At JA I believe you have to spend 2X your initial purchase. Most people dont think they'll ever upgrade but we get people
here all the time with more disposable income than they used to have...so it happens.

 

[ac117]

OP, I do understand where you're coming from but I love @rockysalamander's rationale - the common folk can't really see the difference between one or two color color grades with the naked eye, especially in the colorless range. That being said, if you really want to knock her (and her sisters') socks off, go for a top of the line cut and the LAST thing they will be doing is comparing color!

 

[rockysalamander]

For a scientist, I'd make a parallel of the quality of the glass used in microscopes. There are lots of great makers, but if I had a fat NSF grant, I'd want Zeiss or Leica or Swarovski over a Carolina Biological. CB gets the job done and are nice, but the other three have such precision they are a joy to use.

@tyty333 offered some lovely options to consider.

Discussion about super-ideals starts at post #27.
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/help-me-pick-a-main-stone.232598/

 

[rockysalamander]

WF. Slightly bigger than JA, Stil VS1, G color will be white.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3876771.htm
(ask them to send a video to review, in a total abundance of caution)

 

[doberman]

Don't forget that diamond color is graded table down. This is because table up it's much harder to discern color differences. As for clarity, a VS2 under a loupe is not going to have egregious inclusions. You're on the right track with the cut quality!

 

[flyingpig]

https://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond...t_round-EX-GIA--VS1-diamond-stock-15839-cert-
Ask for more details on this stone, such GIA report number and IS/ASET images.

 

[Bill1991]

Wow. Thanks for the replies and advice! Sorry it took so long for me to reply; I was reading everything and trying to learn more about cuts.

I think what I am gathering from everyone is that cut is indeed king. I think I'm going to insist that whatever diamond I get, from wherever, that it is the highest grade cut (True Hearts, Super Ideal, etc but not just excellent). So that is set in stone (pun intended?).

I guess the only other variables now are carat, color, and clarity (by the way, she's pretty set on a simple platinum solitaire setting with a thin band and no extra diamonds so the diamond to me is extra important as the ring is fairly simple and plain). In terms of carat, obviously bigger is better but I don't want to go any smaller than 0.90.

It seems that the consensus is rather than do the D,E,F with >VS1, try D,E,F,G with >VS2 and maximize diamond size or minimize cost. People generally prefer to go up from a 0.9 to a 1.05 and lose the E/VS1 and get a F/VS2. Is this correct?

I guess what I am struggling with is that people say that you don't see a carat difference until you're 20% different meaning 0.9 and 1.0 aren't different but 0.9 and 1.05 probably are. However, is it less or more of a difference jumping from a D/E to an F or going from VS2 to VS1 or VVS2? Of course, this is all assuming Super Ideal cut round diamonds. I guess if you had to pick, philosophically, between a 0.9 carat E VS1 or a 1.05 carat F/G VS2, what would you choose? Because it seems like based on the links sent, they are all relatively comparable in price.

Thanks so much! I wish I would have posted a week ago.

 

[Gussie]

No question I would choose 1.05 F/G VS2. But then again, I would choose up to I -eye clean S1 if it were super ideal just to go larger! I am not color sensitive though. Have you looked at super ideal stones in lower colors? H/I stones are still very white.

 

[ratatat]

I would definitely choose the 1.05 F/G VS1 every time, or go down to an H (I recently bought an eye clean H SI1 which I love), but not down to an I or J - just personal preference, my current diamond is a J and it is beautiful, very white in most instances, but the faint colour did start to bug me a little after time.
I think it's down to personal preference. An F or G will never look yellow. If you want the biggest possible stone for your money a very well cut I or even J would look beautiful. It just depends on whether you think you or your girlfriend would be bothered by a slight tint of colour. I think it's very hard to tell without seeing the colours in person so if you could do that that might help your decision

 

[ac117]

Yes, I would totally take the 1.05 F/G over a smaller stone. My previous stone was an E VS2 and I upgraded to a G VS2. No regrets whatsoever! I personally wouldn't go lower than an H/I for an ering....G is definitely the sweet spot for me.

 

[Bill1991]

thanks again guys! this helps a lot. I was debating between a 0.9 E VS1 (JA True hearts) vs a 0.92 F VS2 (WF A Cut Above) vs a 1.04 H VS2 (WF A Cut Above). Seems like people are recommending the 1.04 instead of the 0.9 (which after seeing how colors look table up makes total sense to me).


for whatever reason, I hadn't really looked at WF but I really like their website and the additional information. I noticed that while I can find something around 1-1.1 carats G VS2 (True Hearts) on JA for my budget (<7500), I can only find similar diamonds with H color on WF (A cut above). My dream would be a 1.05 G VS2 (WF A cut above) but I can't seem to find anything now.

Would you guys recommend waiting for a 1.05 G VS2 from WF A cut above? Or if that isn't possible or won't ever be in my budget, does anyone have any insight of JA True Hearts vs WF A cut above? Would you prefer a 1.05 G VS2 JA True Hearts or 1.05 H VS2 WF A cut above?

 

[ac117]

I would stick with WF - I think your FF would really appreciate the precision. I know your concerns about clarity but this is marked as eye clean and would be a beautiful stone: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3802924.htm

Alternatively, they do have this G VS2, which is a few hundred over your budget but will get you what you want: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3793582.htm

Lastly, you could ask if they have anything in the pipeline. They regularly get in new stones and if you have some flexibility in your timeline, you could wait and see what comes up.

 

[doberman]

I'm pretty color sensitive and feel that an ACA H color diamond is not going to appear at all yellow. The color difference would only be apparent if you put it next to a colorless stone. It's going to be bright and white. And there's something very special about a 1 carat engagement ring.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I've found this but wanted your thoughts. https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...color-vs1-clarity-True-hearts-cut-sku-3258337

Thanks!

Nice specs, nice stone!...

 

[rockysalamander]

I concut it is lovely. BUT - it is not better than the ones found by @tyty333 and others. They are similar in price and size and WF (and HPD) have a generous upgrade policy. You wanted a bigger stone than you have the budget for now. Maybe you want to upgrade later? I know it may seem impossible to imagine, but upgrades are not unusualy. If you go with WF, you'd have to spend 2x the cost to upgrade.

I personally would stick with the superior cut and upgrade policy. But, if you like the JA one and don't care about the upgrade...go for it.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3876800.htm {.926 F VS2, $5243}
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3816362.htm {.926 F VS2, Expert, $6773)
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3811469.htm {.921 E VS1 ACA, $7426}
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3876800.htm (.89 F VS2 $5243}

 

[rockysalamander]

p.s. I am a bit of "the pot calling the kettle black" here. I will buy gemstones and diamonds without upgrade guaranteed if I can be sure that I can sell them at a price I can live with, assuming a loss, or I can live with them having 'other' purposes. So, for the JA stone, if your GF wanted it a bit bigger, but not enough to get to the 2x value -- can you imagine just buying a new stone wihthout the value of this one to offset it? That might happen anyway if she wants a 3-stone ring in the future and this stone become a side-stone . So....the upgrade may or may not be important.

 

[Bill1991]

Hi all. Sorry for the absence. I wanted to add a little more info

1) We're both students now in medical school. While upgrading and getting back value is important, I don't think that will be an issue because a) I do think this will have a lot of sentimental value and b) our combined income now is a very very small fraction of what our income will be 5-10 years down the road. So I don't think if spending the exact same amount or at least 2x the amount for upgrading is a high priority for me.

2) I did a lot of I guess soul searching and presented some of the information to the GF and I think we both agree that as long as it is hard to tell F vs G vs H (in normal light, by eye) and can't visually see any inclusions by eye from the top or sides, then it is okay to maximize size. I've known for a while she's the one and have been diligent saving up as much as I can so I really don't mind spending my budget rather than saving it now. So maximize size over minimizing price (although both are nice).

3) That makes what I'm looking for the following: >1.00 carat, G-H color, VS1-VS2, the absolute best cut available, and total ring (diamond + setting) for $7-8k (the ring will be a simple band at around $500-800 meaning I have somewhere around $6.5-7.5k to spend on the diamond.) Originally, I was around 0.85-0.95, E/F, >VS1 but people here have convinced me otherwise (thanks for all the help!)

Some advice I was hoping to get:
-I want the "super ideal" cut and I want to see the diamond virtually. It seems like JA and WF are the best online vendors for that. Do people have thoughts about JA's True Hearts vs WF's A Cut Above? The same diamond specs at JA is about $1000 less than WF just based on the different cuts. I know that WF uses additional spec cut offs for the A Cut Above but if the Pavillion % of a JA True Hearts diamond is is 0.5% outside of the WF's A cut above guidelines, is that worth an extra $1000?

-I am planning to take the GF to a jeweler this weekend to see if she can tell the difference between E/F vs G vs H vs I and also look at the clarity grades. However, I think we're going to agree on something F-G and >VS2. But at this moment, I'm really having a hard time deciding what is best? Maybe people can help (or even suggest another diamond they find particularly excellent for me)?

JA True Hearts
1) 1.07 H/VS2 https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3257540
2) 1.02 G/VS2 https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3203654
3) 1.01 G/VS1 https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3203654

WF A Cut Above
1) 1.09 H/VS1 https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3833696.htm (I really like this and it is a new listing but probably a few hundred above my budget but would it be worth it/what are your thoughts?)
2) 1.05 H/VS2 https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3833705.htm
3) 1.01 H/VS2 https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3816375.htm


Thanks!

 

[Bill1991]

Sorry to reply again, but I was wondering what people's thoughts were between these three? Would you go up in size (1.01 to 1.09), up in color (H to G), or up in clarity (VS2 to VS1)? I'm sure these are all minute details but I am a first time buyer and don't want to miss anything no matter how small. I'm leaning towards 2/3 but can't decide between the two or if I should go save the few hundred dollars.

1) 1.04 ACA H VS2 $7.2k https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3857539.htm

2) 1.01 ACA G VS2 $7.8k (HCA score of .7) https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3833691.htm -> big cloud in the center on the report. is this a red flag?

3) 1.092 ACA H VS1 $8.0k https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3833696.htm

 

[ecf8503]

Personally I like the 1.092 H VS1

 

[stonewell]

I also like #3 - 1.09 H VS1. I recommend you give WF a call and put these stones on hold while you consider your options. It doesn't cost anything and helps to ensure they don't get sold otherwise.