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Your scorecards on the Battle of the Round Brilliants

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Info Seeker

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 15, 2003
Messages
10
In this corner, weighing in at a lean .816 carat. . . He''s a GIA certified, D-color, VS2-clarity, Brick and Mortar diamond. Brick and Morrrrrtar. . .

.816 D VS2
Measurements: 5.96-5.99 x 3.70
Table: 54.9%
Depth: 62.3%
Crown Angle: 35.0
Pavillion Angle: 41.0
Culet: 1.2%
Girdle: 1.8% (1.5 - 2.0)
Polish: EXC
Symmetry: EXC
Price: $3790
HCA Light Return: Very Good
HCA Fire: Very Good
HCA Scintillation: Very Good
HCA Overall: 2.3 (very good)

And in this corner, at a GIA-certified fighting weight of .871 carats, his color is H, his clarity is VS2. . . Internet Diamond. Innnnternet.

.871 H VS2
Measurements: 6.20-6.22 x 3.78
Table: 55.2%
Depth: 60.8%
Crown Angle: 34.1
Pavillion Angle: 40.9
Culet: 0.6%
Girdle: 1.2% (1.0 - 1.4)
Polish: VG
Symmetry: EXC
Price: $3550
HCA Light Return: Excellent
HCA Fire: Excellent
HCA Scintillation: Excellent
HCA Overall: 1.1 (Excellent)

You would have my undying gratitude if you could help me sort through my muddled feelings here. The numbers tell me that the obvious choice is the second diamond from SuperbCert. I love the numbers. But I hate that I can''t physically hold the diamond and look at it. Shopping by numbers, without seeing the stone itself, makes me a touch uncomfortable.

Moreover, the woman I hope will be my wife is not exactly a big Internet shopper, and would probably be, how shall I put it, "interested" to learn that I bought a diamond on the Internet. She would never say this and would love it and all that jazz, but I know her well enough to suspect that an Internet purchase would give her a moment''s pause.

So please tell me, am I making a mistake here because I''m leaning towards the B&M diamond? Is it a fair price? Is it still a quality cut? Or do I need to have some sense slapped into me and buy the best cut diamond I can afford?

Many thanks in advance.
 

Hongerhond

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 28, 2003
Messages
51
Clown.

I bought a SuperbCert with the intention of returning it if I didn't absolutely love it. When it came, it was gorgeous and I loved it, but I still took it to a few B&M's in San Francisco to compare. It was the winner, hands down, and I'm keeping it. I was very uncomfortable buying online too, but I'm glad I took the plunge.

1.02, E, VS2
HCA score: 1.5
 

Colored Gemstone Nut

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Messages
2,324
Info Seeker-I too purchased over the net. Barry is a top contendor for online vending of ideal-cut hearts and arrows stones.
His reputation speaks for itself. I would personally sacrifice the color for the cut in this circumstance. If you could place both stones in your hands set in the same kind of mounting ten feet away I can bet you your fiance would choose the superbcert. Stones which are cut to tight proportions and exhibit awesome results via the HCA & brilliancescope will more likely be the stone that is going to grab you.(More importantly your fiance in this case). I personally have heard remarks made about my fiancee's ring like that has to be more than a carat because its bigger than mine...Not really but because of the ideal proportions it spreads better than a stone of lesser quality and with the amount of light it generates it also makes the stone seem larger. When people remark on her stone the first thing they do especially when another woman is involved is compare and every single time my fiancees stone has been put against someone elses they always remark on how much more sparkly her ring is than theirs. They can't get over it, this is when I tell myself I am glad I paid a premium for the cut, because it does matter. I had to sacrifice color a little and went with an H also. I have it set in platinum and it faces up beautifully.

Hope this helps...

Josh Rioux
Sitka, Alaska
 

dimonbob

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Dec 12, 2000
Messages
670
Hi Info Seeker,
I know Barry puts out a very nice diamond and the his H VS2 is a good performer but this H with a very good polish is going up against a D with excellent excellent. That D is a very nice cut with the best color. I would have to take the D. Sorry Barry, I think you would too.
 

Hest88

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
Messages
4,357
You know, Info Seeker, it's all about the spin. If I buy from some of the jewelers I know from the Internet, I can also legitimately say that I bought from a small jeweler outside of the state. Completely true, especially since most of them have real B&M stores as well. With Barry, you can even say you bought directly from a diamond cutter, which is also true. What is the blurb from their website? "Baruch Gutwein Diamonds is a third-generation diamond cutter and dealer, located in the heart of the diamond district in New York." How's that for romance?
 

diamondnovice

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 29, 2002
Messages
123
Hey Info -

Honestly, I think that I would probably take the superbcert.

The pros for the superbcert are larger carat weight, better cut angles, and lower depth percentage. (I like the fact that its depth percentage is 60.8% making the spread appear larger for the same weight as one over 62%.)

The cons are significantly lower color (which you will only be able to tell by looking at your diamond from the side and next to something white) and a VG polish. I don't think the polish is any big deal because my understanding is that of all the parameters affecting light return, polish affects it the least.

Just my $.02. Let us know which one you finally pick.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Boy you chose a tough one, both stones look as though they would be very nice in person. The D is tempting with its EX EX but I would agree that SuperbCert would be the way to go over the D which has somewhat similar specs but a higher HCA score. I have never seen a SC in person, but the raves on here come by us all the time. People love their SC stones. I am still reeling from Lugus's picture from a few months ago. Amazing closeup.

The H will face up whiter than a regular okay cut H will, so you should not see any color in this stone when set..even in plat. The #'s are better, its bigger, it's cheaper, and did I mention its bigger?!


I hear what you are saying about offline vs online. But I do think that once your intended sees something like the SC, she won't care where you got it. All she will care about is that its amazing and she may even think...WOW...this from the internet?? Plus SC has a good return policy right? So you aren't really losing out on anything, you can buy it and then take it to compare it to this stone you are looking at offline. Chances are, the SC will wow you more than the stone in the B&M.

Bottom line is that both stones will most likely be very beautiful. It comes down to your comfortability level and what you are going for. Is cut the absolute number one priority? Or are you willing to sacrifice some cut for an icy D color? It's a decision that no one can really help you make, but I also vote for the SC.

Oh and while you are making this agonizing decision on where to drop a few thousand of your hard earned $$, check out the picture section on Pscope where people post their ring pix. There have been a few superbcerts posted recently and the pictures are breathtaking. That may well push you over the edge.

Good luck!!
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,271
----------------
On 4/22/2003 9:30:30 PM Hest88 wrote:

You know, Info Seeker, it's all about the spin. If I buy from some of the jewelers I know from the Internet, I can also legitimately say that I bought from a small jeweler outside of the state. Completely true, especially since most of them have real B&M stores as well. With Barry, you can even say you bought directly from a diamond cutter, which is also true. What is the blurb from their website? "Baruch Gutwein Diamonds is a third-generation diamond cutter and dealer, located in the heart of the diamond district in New York." How's that for romance?

----------------

haha... yea but there is one minor detail you are leaving out.
He is NOT the cutter of superbcert diamonds!
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,441
And weighing in at $0.02, a Judge haling from the masses of the PS forum......

Superb Cert diamonds have had VERY HIGH praise. You get every imaginable report available so you know the facet arrangement, a physical Brillance Scope test of light and color (not that HCA isn't good), and pics of the diamond in advance. If you don't like it, Barry will take it back. No questions asked. Simple as that!

Have you seen a truly IDEAL cut diamond live and in person??? If you have, the answer should be intuitively obvious. No question about it. Superb Cert hands down!

PS Luuuvvvv your set up for this comparison!!!
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
Hands down - #2

It's cheaper & quite a bit larger. The spread should be better as well.
 

Hest88

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
Messages
4,357
haha... yea but there is one minor detail you are leaving out. He is NOT the cutter of superbcert diamonds!
Yep. Why do you think I said "a cutter" and not "the cutter"?


It's all about the spin.
 

Info Seeker

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 15, 2003
Messages
10
Thanks to all of your for your thoughts and opinions. I truly appreciate the feedback. I'm still on the fence with this one.

It sounds like the concensus is that there will be a noticeable difference in light return between a stone that ranks Excellent on the HCA and one that ranks Very Good. If the difference had been relatively small, then I wouldn't want to sacrifice the color. I've never seen an HCA Excellent diamond in person, but if there will be a marked improvement in fire, brilliance, and scintillation over an HCA Very Good, then I think I'm now leaning towards the SC diamond.

Again, thanks for your help and advice.
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,441
Hey Info Seeker~

I too wondered if all the Hoopla was true, so I decided to find out about Ideal,Ideal,Ideal H&A's for myself. And you can too. They are accessible for viewing at your nearest Maul (hopefully you live near one).

H*******'s, a national chain, carries a Master Piece line of diamonds. They say they are AGS Ideal and GIA Ideal. I went to H*******'s to see one live and in person. I looked at both a H and an I color. Now, I wouldn't buy there because their price was in excess of 2 times PS vendors like Superb Cert, Good Old Gold, White Flash and others. But, the experience was well worth the knowledge I gained.

There is no comparison between a regular nicely cut diamond and a true Ideal,Ideal,Ideal cut diamond! They GLOW with light and color! As for color rating,.... You could easily mount a J color Ideal cut in yellow gold, and lots of folks even go J Ideal cut in white gold/platinum. The cut is THAT GOOD. And, it's not just body color of the diamond that improves. Because the white light and flashes of color are intensified, the same sized Ideal cut diamond "appears" larger than a similar nicely cut diamond.

Trot on down to your local Maul and see for yourself. It will be well worth the trip.


PS If you don't happen to live where you can visit this chain, check your local B&M diamond brokers and see if any carry Ideal cuts. Put the nicely cut diamond side by side with the Ideal cut and you will see for yourself.
 

djr59

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 31, 2003
Messages
13
I have a I VS2 that is H&A and ideal triple 0 and I compared it to a D and a F and could not see a difference face up. Bottom up, yes, but who sees under your stone beside your finger? My same stone in a F was $5K more. I splurged for a nicer setting and pocketed $3K for a trip to Vegas! Go with #2 buddy.
 

rbjd

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 4, 2003
Messages
154
I recently settled on the idea of getting an H instead of a D. (More on that at a date in the future). It really is all about cut, and the 1 out of 1000 people you'll run across who will know it's not a D will be overwhelmed by the cut instead of the color.

The H you've picked has a lot going for it, not the least of which is that it is substantially larger than the D (your girlfriend will like that). It's also got better proportions and will probably sparkle a whole lot better.

And, why does she have to know you got it on the internet? All she's really going to care about is how many compliments she gets on it from friends, family and random strangers who can't help commenting on it.
 

Colored Gemstone Nut

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Messages
2,324
haha... yea but there is one minor detail you are leaving out.
He is NOT the cutter of superbcert diamonds!

Rhino


Who is the cutter? Does he sell diamonds to any other dealer who is allowed to boast himself as the cutter. If he is not the cutter would there not be issues of false advertising. So if this is true which is a totally hypothecical situation, you are buying into the marketing of the superbcert stone, If the cutter is not Barry. Another thing Jonathan, I hope you post such a statement with factual information to back it up since it is on a public forum....Have you ever seen Barry take a diamond and sit down at the wheel or are you just making this statement based on your assumptions....I am not in the business and have nothing to gain or lose from the answer, but I think making a statement of this magnitude puts questions in John Q Public's mind about who they are dealing with....

-Josh Rioux
Sitka, Alaska
 

Riprock

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2003
Messages
18
Info Seeker,

My Superbcert story is in another thread about 5 weeks ago. I am still very happy with my Superbcert and so is my fiance. It's a beautiful diamond, H/VS2, and the H color isn't noticeable at all. You'd have to hold it up to a white sheet of paper and then have a "D" right next to it to really see any color in it. Go for cut.

BTW, it's a very sparkly and firey diamond but two weeks ago at a big church we attended, all the lights and everything, and I was awestruck at it's beauty. We were there with a good friend of mine and her boyfriend, and she's already jealous of my fiance's ring. My fiance noticed it's enhanced beauty under all those lights and brought my attention to it... I told her "Don't show it to (my friend) in here! She'll be ten times more jealous!"

So, anyway. I don't think you can go wrong with the second diamond.
 
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