shape
carat
color
clarity

Your opinion on this diamond and light performance software!

Pie88tro

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 16, 2023
Messages
29
Hello PS, this is my first post on the forum! I am Italian so sorry about my English :)
I bought this diamond on WF (report in attach, number 6227787386) for an engagement ring and I would like to have your opinion (HCA tool 1.3). Does anyone have any software to simulate light performance? I'd like to see how it looks!

thank you so much

Pietro
 

Attachments

  • 6227787386.pdf
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DejaWiz

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 23, 2021
Messages
6,111
Hello and welcome to PriceScope, Pie88tro!

Do you still have the link to your diamond on the Whiteflash website? There may be a SARINE report.

DiamCalc is an option:
 
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Pie88tro

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 16, 2023
Messages
29
Hello DejaWiz, thank you for your answer! I have the link but there is not SARINE Report for Virtual Selection category. I know, Virtual Selection isn't recommended but I couldn't pay more for an ACA.

Is DiamCalc free or have I pay it?
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
27,479
Can you provide an image of the report? Most people don't like to have to download things on their computer.
 

DejaWiz

Ideal_Rock
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Can you provide an image of the report? Most people don't like to have to download things on their computer.

Snagged a screenshot of the report:

Screenshot_20230318-083302-652.png
 

DejaWiz

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 23, 2021
Messages
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Hello DejaWiz, thank you for your answer! I have the link but there is not SARINE Report for Virtual Selection category. I know, Virtual Selection isn't recommended but I couldn't pay more for an ACA.

Is DiamCalc free or have I pay it?

I'm not sure if it has changed, but DiamCalc may have a limited/trial mode that you can run a simulation in. Otherwise, the standard version is €290 while the pro version is €2900.

Screenshot_20230318-083827-516.png


Another fine option is to buy your own ASET scope for around $50.

 

Pie88tro

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 16, 2023
Messages
29
just looking at the numbers, this diamond falls within the ACA WF range. Maybe only the Lower girdle length is different (80% instead of 75%) but you know that this number is rounded on GIA report.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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27,479
Thanks...numbers look good. Any pictures?
 

Pie88tro

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 16, 2023
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29
Thanks...numbers look good. Any pictures?

You nailed the problem...no pictures or video available from WF. That's why I was curious about light performance software!
 

Pie88tro

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 16, 2023
Messages
29
I'm not sure if it has changed, but DiamCalc may have a limited/trial mode that you can run a simulation in. Otherwise, the standard version is €290 while the pro version is €2900.

Screenshot_20230318-083827-516.png


Another fine option is to buy your own ASET scope for around $50.



I am not a PRO, I am only interested in this diamond! So I prefer to spend the 290 euro for the dinner and then give her the ring :D

But if someone have that software I prefer to pay him 50$ for the single report!

ASET scope is really cool but diamond is setting now and I have not the GIA"light machine" to get on it the diamond for testing it :)
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
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14,928
Diamcalc will not tell you anything specific about your diamond just by punching in the numbers.
ASET works on mounted stones.
 

Pie88tro

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 16, 2023
Messages
29
Diamcalc will not tell you anything specific about your diamond just by punching in the numbers.
ASET works on mounted stones.

Of course you are right. However, I think it is not easy to use ASET tool for a non-expert on mounted stone, but maybe I'm wrong.

I thought these software could simulate light performance starting for numbers but surely I was wrong and scanning stone is required.

On the GIA site I've read this: https://www.gia.edu/ags-ideal-report

I don't understand if they make this report with or without the stone. Does anyone have any further information? Thank you
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Ask Whiteflash to take an ASET picture of the diamond before they ship it to you.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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5,791
As @MissGotRocks noted, if the diamond has not yet shipped, the easiest solution to this problem is to ask WF to perform advanced imagery on the stone. By that, I mean H&A, idealscope & ASET. Since you are unsure of your ability to interpret the images, post them up and let us review them for you. We will shoot you straight.

Another thought. Not everyone realizes that WF is an ISO 9000 company. What this means is they have a strict set of procedures they must comply with on a daily basis to ensure consistent quality. For instance, when diamonds come in or go out there is a documented process they adhere to so stones are not lost or mixed up. It's possible that as part of the ISO 9000 process that intake of new stones is scanning them and performing advanced images and videos. So even if you've already taken possession of the stone there may be a chance they have this data and perhaps a simple request will put it in your hands. At the least, it's worth asking them.


Honestly, I wouldn't bother buying software. It's a waste of time, money and effort because the data you will enter will be based on what the GIA report says. Without using any expensive software, we can tell you the proportions shown on the GIA report are within ideal range. What we can't tell you is how precisely the stone is cut and if the actual (not averaged & rounded) measurements work or not. Effectively, putting in data from the lab report won't really tell you anything useful.

pricescope-education-105-cut-quality-manual-input-cgi-1024x576.jpg


To get meaningful results from the software, you would need to SCAN the diamond which requires it to be loose and would not be cost effective for the consumer to purchase. The scan will provide the individual values of all 57 facets and not the condensed output of averaged & rounded data shown on the lab reports.

pricescope-education-105-cut-quality-3D-scan-1024x576.jpg


Having a read of some elements from the PS intermediate cut knowledge base will provide further insight to what I am saying.

Rounding of Lab Report Data
Computer Generated Images (CGI)

Lastly I will reference a thread I created awhile back where a stone had very similar proportions as the stone in question. It really looks perfect but drives home the importance of getting advanced images -- not computer generated images based on lab report data but actual images that identify those actual measurements. FYI, at the beginning of the thread, there was some concern about the images matching the stone but it was later confirmed they did indeed match and it was just a bad stone.

To be clear I'm not suggesting your stone has any of these problems. Just making you aware how the actual images matter more than computer generated data based off lab report info.

 

Pie88tro

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 16, 2023
Messages
29
Ask Whiteflash to take an ASET picture of the diamond before they ship it to you.

I did three times.. They said no. Of course I was willing to pay extra, but they said no again.

"The light performance images are done specifically for our branded diamonds (like the A Cut Aboves)."

"Unfortunately we do not provide light performance images for our non-branded diamonds. I'm sorry about that!"

"your diamond was inspected by the team when it arrived to ensure it was in pristine condition (it is) and to make sure it matches the GIA report (it does). Everything checked out just fine, and the diamond looks great! Unbranded diamonds do not come with separate performance images, as those are reserved for our branded stones like the A Cut Above."
 
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Pie88tro

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 16, 2023
Messages
29
Summarizing facts:

_to know how light performance is I must necessarily scan the loose diamond or know how to use Ideal scope and ASET tools (both impossible).

_WF pushes a lot on ACA brand diamonds. My diamond proportions are within the ideal range but it cost less than ACA diamonds (about 2k$ less) so, of course, it is not perfect and it has one or more problems, I knew it before buying it (nobody gives you anything for free...). If customer support had honestly told me what the problem was BEFORE they mounted the stone and shipped the ring, I probably would have upgraded the stone and gotten the ACA diamond.

_I can't return the stone because, from Italy, customs fees and taxes are high (24% more). If I return it I have to pay shipping and customs fees + taxes to send it to USA and customs fees and taxes again for import into Italy the new ring. So I'd be wasting a lot more money than buying the ACA diamond right away. This is why I had specifically asked to be contacted before setting the stone and shipping but they didn't.

Conclusion:
it is impossible to buy a good diamond online without full pictures.

My question now is:

how bad could be a stone with numbers in the ideal range and GIA report 3ex?

Watching this post:

Why Advanced Images Matter...A Bad 34.5/40.8...

a lot.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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27,479
_WF pushes a lot on ACA brand diamonds. My diamond proportions are within the ideal range but it cost less than ACA diamonds (about 2k$ less) so, of course, it is not perfect and it has one or more problems, I knew it before buying it (nobody gives you anything for free...). If customer support had honestly told me what the problem was BEFORE they mounted the stone and shipped the ring, I probably would have upgraded the stone and gotten the ACA diamond.

So, what are the problems with the stone?
 

Pie88tro

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 16, 2023
Messages
29
Guys, does anyone want to come to Italy on holiday with his scope&ASET tools?! :D
 

molecule

Brilliant_Rock
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704
Guys, does anyone want to come to Italy on holiday with his scope&ASET tools?! :D

You would still be stuck returning it and paying the fees if you didn't like it.

If you are within the timeframe, maybe consider a company that will provide ASETs.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
18,867
I do not think this is WFs fault, nor do I think this implies you cant buy a good stone online without advanced images. No one should EVER buy a stone without basic pics and videos. That is the bare minimum.

You could have bought a diamond with pictures and videos, even if it didnt have advanced images. Buying a stone entirely sight unseen was not a good idea. WF has access to tons of virtual diamonds, but buying one from them is no different than buying from any of the trusted vendors with virtual inventory (james allen, blue nile, adiamor, etc).

If you cant return the stone and cant cancel the order, you unfortunately just have to wait to see it in real life.
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
16,628
Yes, unfortunately I guess these are questions you should have asked before purchase. Buying an ACA is an easy way to buy a diamond as all of this is laid out before you decide to purchase. They are more expensive as more rough is lost to cut them and all of these images are provided but can be money well spent. It is not always easy to choose a well cut diamond on your own and without images, almost impossible. Let’s hope that you love the diamond but if not, I guess you will have to bear the expense of returning it. I would rather spend the money instead of keeping something I didn’t love. I think at this point you have just got to sit back and wait for it to arrive. In questioning about the images and such, you can talk yourself into it being inferior before it arrives. Hopefully, it will be a winner for you!
 

entaro

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 30, 2023
Messages
28
I don't know and I can't know because I don't have images! This is the problem.

proportion looks good, it could turn out alright, crossed fingers...
 

Pie88tro

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 16, 2023
Messages
29
I do not think this is WFs fault, nor do I think this implies you cant buy a good stone online without advanced images. No one should EVER buy a stone without basic pics and videos. That is the bare minimum.

You could have bought a diamond with pictures and videos, even if it didnt have advanced images. Buying a stone entirely sight unseen was not a good idea. WF has access to tons of virtual diamonds, but buying one from them is no different than buying from any of the trusted vendors with virtual inventory (james allen, blue nile, adiamor, etc).

If you cant return the stone and cant cancel the order, you unfortunately just have to wait to see it in real life.

Wait wait wait, I never wanted to say it was WF fault. It's all my fault! I chose WF because of the company's reputation and I (wrongly) thought their stones in Virtual Selection section were still better than other companies. This is incorrect, because virtual selection is similar to other companies, as you said (some companies, can we say, are better because they publish at least the basic images or a video, WF doesn't.)

I just wanted to say that I have exchanged more than 30 emails with WF customer service for help in choosing the diamond, specifying that I was not an expert, and I don't think I was helped much, despite their kindness.

However the ring has arrived, I have it! How can I judge whether it is a good diamond or not? Do you have a guide or advice?

Thank everyone!
 

Pie88tro

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 16, 2023
Messages
29
Yes, unfortunately I guess these are questions you should have asked before purchase. Buying an ACA is an easy way to buy a diamond as all of this is laid out before you decide to purchase. They are more expensive as more rough is lost to cut them and all of these images are provided but can be money well spent. It is not always easy to choose a well cut diamond on your own and without images, almost impossible. Let’s hope that you love the diamond but if not, I guess you will have to bear the expense of returning it. I would rather spend the money instead of keeping something I didn’t love. I think at this point you have just got to sit back and wait for it to arrive. In questioning about the images and such, you can talk yourself into it being inferior before it arrives. Hopefully, it will be a winner for you!

Thank you, everything you said is obviously correct!

As I said above, I hope you have some guidance or advice to help me judge the stone in my hand.
 

Pie88tro

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 16, 2023
Messages
29
You would still be stuck returning it and paying the fees if you didn't like it.

If you are within the timeframe, maybe consider a company that will provide ASETs.

Yes but with a pizza and a bottle of wine would be better discover from you that the stone is not good :)
 

Pie88tro

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 16, 2023
Messages
29
Now my question is: why GIA judge "Excellent cut" if the cut could be not excellent? Why do they use a scale with so few values? If a lot of diamonds for GIA are "excellent cut" this information loses its value and becomes useless...
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Messages
16,628
Now my question is: why GIA judge "Excellent cut" if the cut could be not excellent? Why do they use a scale with so few values? If a lot of diamonds for GIA are "excellent cut" this information loses its value and becomes useless...

Bingo! Sadly, GIA has a very broad range for triple excellent cut. That is why super ideal cut stones were sent to AGS for cut grading. Much more precise. However, now both labs have merged and while AGS gives their cut grade, GIA still uses the same criteria for their grading. This is where the images come in for helping to verify the diamond. It becomes all the more important to be able to trust the integrity of the company you are purchasing from as well. All jewelers are not as proficient in cut quality as they could be and some are not as transparent either. They can tell you it is graded excellent by GIA and it sounds great - although it isn’t always!
 
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