your opinion about this diamond please :)

[guslik]

Hi everyone!
1.01ct
SI2/H (eye clean)
60.3% depth,
58.5% table,
34.9° crown angle,
40.7° pavilion angle
measurements 6.54x6.56x3.96
price is $1999.
IGI certified with an Excellent cut grade.
What do you know about IGI certification?
I'm considering this stone for a pendant.
thanks a lot for your help!

 

[Mikesgirl]

Hi, Guslik - I like your avatar.
Your stone scores a 1.2 with "excellent" across the board with HCA. If it is in fact an H color and eye clean, it looks like a winner. Check it against the DIY grading system at gemappraisers.com

 

[Giangi]

Pretty

. Which IGI lab graded it? Actually, IGI Antwerp and India are VERY good!

 

[Colored Gemstone Nut]

----------------
On 11/12/2003 4:26:54 PM guslik wrote:





Hi everyone!
1.01ct
SI2/H (eye clean)
60.3% depth,
58.5% table,
34.9° crown angle,
40.7° pavilion angle
measurements 6.54x6.56x3.96
price is $1999.
IGI certified with an Excellent cut grade.
What do you know about IGI certification?
I'm considering this stone for a pendant.
thanks a lot for your help!

----------------

Guslik,

The price looks attractive..

IGI is considered a consistent and reputable lab but I have also read many threads from professionals and consumers who have had experiences of this lab being a "softer" grader than other labs such as GIA or AGS.

If indeed the stone is an H SI-2 I would say it is worth looking at. If it was loosely graded it might very well be an I/si-2,I1. Don't mean to put a damper on your find but just keep these things in mind.

I would make the sale contingent on being evaluated by an independent appraiser which can varify the color and clarity vs. the cert. If it is indeed a H/SI-2 I would say you have found yourself a stone that is priced relatively competetively to many others in that range...

 

[guslik]

----------------
On 11/12/2003 4:52:17 PM Giangi wrote:

Pretty

. Which IGI lab graded it? Actually, IGI Antwerp and India are VERY good!----------------

hi!
the certificate #IGI 0005993U. The stone is also laser inscribed.
how can you determine which lab is that?
what about the price? is it good?
thanks for reply!

 

[Mara]

hey Guslik...long time

I think the diamond sounds great. Price is excellent for 1c, the numbers are 1.4 on HCA with EX's for all four (wow) and I think you have a great balance for a pendant with H SI2. Would confirm it's eye clean and looks white, but you should be fine!

Why is price $1999? Hmmmm

I want one too....buy two buy two!!

This is right up my alley!

 

[guslik]

----------------
On 11/12/2003 8:48:55 PM Mara wrote:


hey Guslik...long time

I think the diamond sounds great. Price is excellent for 1c, the numbers are 1.4 on HCA with EX's for all four (wow) and I think you have a great balance for a pendant with H SI2. Would confirm it's eye clean and looks white, but you should be fine!

Why is price $1999? Hmmmm

I want one too....buy two buy two!!

This is right up my alley!
----------------

Thanks for the reply.
the seller confirmed that this stone is eye clean, so I think I should be fine.
As fas as price goes, he told me that this is a trade in stone (someone wanted a bigger diamond I guess

)
I'm fine with a second hand stone

What about IGI certificate though?
Giangi said that IGI India or Antwerp should be fine. How can I find out by cetificate # which one it is?
price sounds very good for the quality cut stone, I really just want to make sure I can trust IGI certificate.

thanks a lot

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Hi Guslik. Still finding those bargain stones, eh?

I hate to sound like a broken record, but this stone is priced too cheap for a legitimate H/SI2. An H/SI2 with these proportions would go for at least $3,500-3,900, internet pricing.

In reality, it is probably an IJ/I1 stone, which is a good pendant quality, and with those proportions should be a dazzling stone.

Be sure to buy it contingent upon a postive appraisal, and you can't lose.

 

[guslik]

----------------
On 11/12/2003 10:48:28 PM Richard Sherwood wrote:

Hi Guslik. Still finding those bargain stones, eh?

I hate to sound like a broken record, but this stone is priced too cheap for a legitimate H/SI2. An H/SI2 with these proportions would go for at least $3,500-3,900, internet pricing.

In reality, it is probably an IJ/I1 stone, which is a good pendant quality, and with those proportions should be a dazzling stone.

Be sure to buy it contingent upon a postive appraisal, and you can't lose.

----------------

Hi Rich!
when I was looking for my 2.57ct diamond I was able to find the stone that was priced lower than stones on pricesope.
I hope to do the same with my pendant stone.
As far as the correct grading goes, here is my question again:
CAN I TRUST IGI CERTIFICATE GRADING??
from what you said I understand that I can not trust IGI, right?

 

[Mara]

Guslik..don't trust anyone.




I would get the stone. Make sure it has a return policy of at least a few days of no questions asked.


Take it to an independent appraiser. Pay the $100. Have them verify the color and clarity and cut #'s.


If it checks out, you keep the stone. If it doesn't, you return it.




No one knows for sure what this stone is...you need to have it checked out. It sounds really great. But cover all your bases...(and prove Rich wrong!)

(edited to add)


Even if it turns out to be an I color I1 clarity...you said that your jeweler guarantees its eye clean. So who cares if its I1 if its eye clean. Esp for a pendant. And an I color excellently cut stone will face up a shade or two whiter..so in essence you still have a great stone. And the price is STILL excellent for I I1 in my opinion for that excellent of a cut. So I think you should do it, get it checked out...see what happens!

 

[Richard Sherwood]

-----------
As far as the correct grading goes, here is my question again:
CAN I TRUST IGI CERTIFICATE GRADING??
from what you said I understand that I can not trust IGI, right?
-----------

I would have any certification double checked by a savvy independent or objective appraiser. Especially IGI.

 

[newenglandgemlab]

HI,

Haven't seen an IGI report yet that isn't soft. Look at the return policy very closely or have it sent to an appraiser prior to paying.

Cindy

 

[Giangi]

Honestly, I don't know which IGI lab issued the report. IGI Antwerp starts with F2 or F3, while IGI india starts with MS. These lab are pretty accurate and have tightened up a lot in the last years.

 

[magna2]

----------------
On 11/12/2003 4:57:01 PM guslik wrote:

----------------

hi!
the certificate #IGI 0005993U. The stone is also laser inscribed.
how can you determine which lab is that?
what about the price? is it good?
thanks for reply!
----------------

It would be wise to get hold of a copy of the original IGI report - the specific IGI lab that graded the diamond is listed on the report.

There is a very good reason for the price of $1999. Are you sure it is not clarity enhanced/fractured filled or something to that effect that is driving the price way down from what a typical H/SI2 would command? Best bet is to have an independent appraisal done.

I have to admit I love the price.

 

[robbe]

hi, to your question:


the certificate #IGI 0005993U.


how can you determine which lab is that?


my answer is you should call up igi in order to know. simply!




to the other question:


CAN I TRUST IGI CERTIFICATE GRADING??
from what you said I understand that I can not trust IGI, right?


wrong! igi stood the test of time, they have proven they are very reliable and professional.


some people on this forum are contra-igi but they don't work with igi on a regular basis, means they often have preconceived ideas about igi.


surprisingly, gia is the lab that makes most mistakes and is less consitent, lately...




if you don't feel secure, i would ask opinions, not one, rather 3 opinions.


good luck, robbe

 

[guslik]

thank you all for your reply!
The seller told me it is IGI NY lab grading certificate.
Any opinions about NY lab in particular?

 

[guslik]

This is a picture of this stone in it's current mount.
so, what do you think?

 

[aljdewey]

Guslik: I applaud smart shopping, believe me. But I think you're being penny-wise and pound-foolish.




Reputable vendors do not sell 1 ct, H, SI2 stones for $1999......they just don't. The same way that street vendors in NY aren't selling REAL Rolex watches for $60.




I'm not knocking your desire to get a bargain at all, but it should be pretty clear with all the responses you've gotten that everyone is skeptical about this stone being as represented.




Several people have tried to caution you on this purchase. You can either heed their warnings, or ignore them and take a chance. If you still want to take the chance, take the advice given and get a really good return policy (refund NOT exchange) so you don't get burned when this stone isn't what it should be.




Oh, and note to Robbe: I'm sorry to say that IGI *is* notoriously soft on their gradings. A friend recently made a purchase (wish I could have stopped it in advance) of IGI earrings - supposed to be F/G.....turned out to be J!!!!!

 

[pyramid]

I don't know about prices there but as the stone Guslik is considering is secondhand he states would the price be much more than this?

 

[aljdewey]

To my knowledge (and Rich/Dave, et al, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)......second hand stones that sell through a dealer are somewhat adjusted, yes. But they are not discounted 60%.




Maybe Guslik has found the one-in-a-million that is, and if so, then it should bear out on appraisal. Again, get a generous return policy and get it checked out by an appraiser.

 

[guslik]

----------------
On 11/14/2003 11:40:26 AM aljdewey wrote:


Guslik: I applaud smart shopping, believe me. But I think you're being penny-wise and pound-foolish.


Reputable vendors do not sell 1 ct, H, SI2 stones for $1999......they just don't. The same way that street vendors in NY aren't selling REAL Rolex watches for $60.


I'm not knocking your desire to get a bargain at all, but it should be pretty clear with all the responses you've gotten that everyone is skeptical about this stone being as represented.


Several people have tried to caution you on this purchase. You can either heed their warnings, or ignore them and take a chance. If you still want to take the chance, take the advice given and get a really good return policy (refund NOT exchange) so you don't get burned when this stone isn't what it should be.


Oh, and note to Robbe: I'm sorry to say that IGI *is* notoriously soft on their gradings. A friend recently made a purchase (wish I could have stopped it in advance) of IGI earrings - supposed to be F/G.....turned out to be J!!!!!
----------------

aljdewey
I never said I'M NOT GOING to send this stone to independent appraiser.
As everyone else advised me, I will definitely check this stone before purchasing.
When I asked for opinions I really wanted to know what you all think about this stone. I didn't ask anyone to preach me though.
I have not noticed that "everyone is skeptical about this stone being as represented"
People suggested checking the stone prior to purchase that is all.
In my opinion this forum is very helpful for every buyer.
The only downside to it is that I have noticed tendency to turn down any purchase that is not from one of the vendors advertised on this forum. Any other vendor is suddenly "not reputable"
In addition FYI some "crazy" people out there buy GIA, IGI, EGL, AGS certified stones and NEVER check the grading just because they assume that these labs names speak for themselves.
I"m not saying this is right thing to do, but in my opinion being educated about diamonds does not make you superior to other people on this forum.
I do not mean to insult anyone, I really believe in every vendor that is advertised on this forum, all I"m saying is that there are other vendors that are not less reputable than ones mentioned on this forum.
There is nothing wrong with trying to find your stone cheaper, I did it once, and I"ll do it again. I had a very bad experience previously when I had no idea about diamonds, I learned my lesson, (once is enough for me, I learn fast

). Ever since I"m super careful with every purchase I make.
Thanks again for your help (no offence to anyone)

 

[guslik]

----------------
On 11/14/2003 12:00:02 PM pyramid wrote:

I don't know about prices there but as the stone Guslik is considering is secondhand he states would the price be much more than this?----------------

I'm a GIRL, pyramid

A cute one!!

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 11/14/2003 12:19:56 PM guslik wrote:





aljdewey---I never said I'M NOT GOING to send this stone to independent appraiser.
As everyone else advised me, I will definitely check this stone before purchasing.

Guslik....You didn't say that you would or wouldn't take it to an appraiser, so there was no way for any of us to know. Further, the reason people are telling you to take it to an appraiser it because the stone *sounds* too good to be true at that price.

When I asked for opinions I really wanted to know what you all think about this stone. I didn't ask anyone to preach me though.

Who's preaching to you? You ASKED what we thought about the stone. Several have told you the price is too good to be true, it's too low. That's typically a warning that there is a *reason* the stone isn't higher price. It's likely an appraisal will uncover the reason why....*that's* why it's being suggested to you.

You asked what we think about the stone......I think that there must be something wrong with it to be offered at that ridiculously low price. It's the same question I'd ask if someone offered to sell me a 2004 BMW loaded for $15000.

You asked for the opinions....how do you figure that's "preaching" to you? If you aren't looking for honest opinions, then what are you looking for in asking the question?

The only downside to it is that I have noticed tendency to turn down any purchase that is not from one of the vendors advertised on this forum. Any other vendor is suddenly 'not reputable'

Excuse me, but that's BS. You didn't identify who the vendor is, so no one could be suggesting you "turn down" this purchase because it isn't one of the advertised vendors....for all we know, it may be. Let me tell you, if Whiteflash or GOG or NiceIce or any of the others listed a 1 ct, H, SI stone for $1999, I'd STILL be asking "what's wrong with it? The price suggests something's wrong with it."

It really has more to do with common sense. If the market price of a 1 ct stone of your description runs 3500-4500 (which an expert appraiser with more than 25 years in the business told you it does), and this stone is sooooo far below market price, there must be a reason. I don't know what that reason is, which is why you've received suggestions to get it checked.

In addition FYI some 'crazy' people out there buy GIA, IGI, EGL, AGS certified stones and NEVER check the grading just because they assume that these labs names speak for themselves.

Yup, and that's why a higher percentage of those "crazy" people typically regret their purchases later.....because they *assumed* it was fine based on the name of the lab instead of finding out for sure. A good reputation doesn't mean an honest mistake cannot be made. Also, we're not talking about just any stone purchase.....we're talking about one that is *seriously* underpriced if it is what the specs say it is. That makes it more important, even for the "crazy" people, to check into it.

I'm not saying this is right thing to do, but in my opinion being educated about diamonds does not make you superior to other people on this forum.

Pardon me? WHO said I was superior to you or anyone else? I didn't say that, I don't believe that, and I'm ticked that you'd suggest that! Look, you asked for opinions on the stone. My opinion is that the stone is unlikely to be what it's represented to be based on the fact that the price is ridiculously low. If you don't like my opinion, then feel free to disregard it. But is it really necessary to start lashing out at me....just because I didn't say what you wanted to hear? I'm *NOT* the only one who suggested an appraisal---three other people did, too, so why are you singling out me for that?

I do not mean to insult anyone, I really believe in every vendor that is advertised on this forum, all I'm saying is that there are other vendors that are not less reputable than ones mentioned on this forum.

Yes, there are other vendors....I've recommended some of them that don't appear here. Bottom line....if you're comfortable with them, then why are you asking our opinion on the stone?

There is nothing wrong with trying to find your stone cheaper, I did it once, and I'll do it again.

And if you go back and reread what I wrote, I said the same thing....there is nothing wrong with trying to get the best price. But that doesn't mean disregarding all other information. Hell, I could probably find a 1 ct. diamond on eBay today for $50, but that doesn't mean it's a quality diamond. Bottom line: If you like the 1 ct, $1999 diamond, then buy it and wear it in good health....enjoy.

----------------

 

[Mara]

Guslik..the picture of the stone looks fine from what I can see...the arrows are pretty visible. I would be VERY interested in learning what happens if you buy this stone. Are you any closer to buying it and checking it out than a few days ago? Are you waiting for more data or just unsure as to if you want to take the leap? Make sure the vendor has a good return policy...let us know how it turns out!!

 

[guslik]

----------------
On 11/14/2003 2:08:17 PM Mara wrote:


Guslik..the picture of the stone looks fine from what I can see...the arrows are pretty visible. I would be VERY interested in learning what happens if you buy this stone. Are you any closer to buying it and checking it out than a few days ago? Are you waiting for more data or just unsure as to if you want to take the leap? Make sure the vendor has a good return policy...let us know how it turns out!!

----------------

I'll let you all know how it turns out

Mara, who is Persian in you family?

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Hi All,


I must agree with Richard and everyone else stating the price is to low.


If I offered you a brand new BMW M3 for $15,000 your first question shoud be- does that include an engine? Same thing as a 1.01 H/SI2 for $1999.




If a dealer takes a stone in trade, unsets it, it is then the same as a "new diamond". It becomes identical a stone right off the wheel- unless the diamond has been damaged- in which case the dealer could re-polish, and again have a "new" diamond.


Remember, these things are MILLIONS of years old! A used ring has little value- except if it has a diamond in it.






As far as the dealer telling you it's eye clean- well, many dealers would answer that way- regardless of what they see. I'm not saying YOUR dealer did this, but it is something to watch out for.






IGI- I DO have extensive experience dealing with IGI in NYC.


EGL, and IGI are both "second tier" labs. This is actually a big endorsement, because EVERY other gem lab is completelty shunned by the trade. Of course EGL's and IGI's position is that they are equal to GIA, but any diamond dealer knows better. IN my opinion, any diamond dealer offering EGL and IGI stones to the public has a duty to explain the difference between a GIA report and anything else.


When a dealer is showing a stone with an IGI, or EGl report, every other dealer will discount the stone to a much greater degree than a stone with the same grade from GIA- but no dealer will even LOOK at any other lab report.




I am a diamond seller, but I do not advertise here- Yet I feel confident that if the price was inthe $3500 range, people would not be so discouraging. As an outside observer, it looks as though you've gotten impartial advice, given in a fair and even manner.

 

[canadiangrrl]

The diamond looks a tad strange in the o'clock position, from my laptop, at least.

The price seems way too good to be true. It seems as though you're set on buying it, though, so I'll echo what the others have said...get it independently appraised.

Hope it turns out well.

 

[pyramid]

QUOTE: Guslik 'I'm a GIRL, pyramid
A cute one!!'





Whoops, sorry Guslik

 

[pyramid]

Oh I did not know a traded in stone once unset would be the same price as a 'new' bought one. I was just going on the rings seen in antique shops but there again they are still set.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

----------------
On 11/14/2003 4:02:33 PM pyramid wrote:





Oh I did not know a traded in stone once unset would be the same price as a 'new' bought one. I was just going on the rings seen in antique shops but there again they are still set.
----------------

It's not neccesarily true in all cases.

For example- If a diamond has a GIA report thats 15 years old, it may need to be re-evaluated, and may get a different grade.

Last week a friend of mine was in a position of needing to sell a few large stones that belonged to his mothier in law.

One diamond was a 2.00 J/VS2 RBC with average cut- nothing special- It brought a pretty decent cash offer ( and susequent purchase)- But the GIA report was from 1986 - I felt that he could have gotten 10% more if the stone had a brand new GIA report.

As long as the diamond is in tip top condition, how many people have previously owned it have no bearing on it's value.