WWYD - Neighbor problem

[Circe]

I'm not sure if your lease is more draconian that any I've had, but in general, I think when you break a lease, you just lose your deposit - first and last month's rent in NYC. And at the end of the day, I'd rather lose that much than damage my health, I think.

But Mary Poppins is right (isn't she always - what a well chosen user-name!), you should definitely contact a lawyer who specializes in tenant's rights. Even if your landlord is amenable to fixing it ... a), getting rid of a mold infestation is HARD, and, b), in light of the noise issue, it still won't be a place you want to stay.

Do what you have to do to break the lease.

 

[mary poppins]

Mold conditions are very unhealthy.

The landlord is responsible for building maintenance and remediation. Do you know what is causing the condition? Leaky pipes, moisture coming through the walls, HVAC problem, leaky roof? You should write a letter to the landlord describing the situation (include pictures) and your health issues, and request that he address the problem by fixing the source and hiring a mold remediation company. Get a mold testing kit and use results as support for your letter. Generally, you cannot effectively clean mold conditions with ordinary cleaners and cleaning techniques.

What state do you live in? Check out the local, state and federal housing and health departments. Websites contain information for tenants, and some departments will come out and conduct tests.

Review your lease and see what the termination provisions state. Regardless, every lease has an implied warranty of habitability.

Are you dealing with an individual landlord or a management company?

ETA sorry you are going through this. Very frustrating on top of the noise issues.

Hi mary poppins, thank you so much for your response. The bathroom is in my room, which doesn't get any direct sunlight because of a tall building next door. The shower is behind and off to the side of the door of the bathroom, so it really doesn't get any light. I think generally, this landlord (individual) is interested in cutting costs above all else, as there are many defects in the apartment that he has yet to cure. For example, the counter top in the kitchen is not the correct size, so there are about 1 inch strips on the sides that are missing (with a bunch of gunk stuck inside!), both my and my neighbor's sliding glass doors don't close all the way - at least mine is only by about an inch on the bottom, but my neighbor's has about a three inch gap that is always open, and when she asked him to fix it, he just told her not to ever use the door/go onto her balcony so that it stays at least that shut! He's pretty ridiculous, but I was really desperate to find a place and it was the best of the bunch at the time in my price range.

I'm in California, I'm looking online for information from the housing departments, but all the information I've found so far says that I will be responsible for any costs?

Should I write him a letter in addition to calling him? He generally comes out to the apartment in a few days after you call him for a problem. Also, should I do the mold testing before I speak to him? I'm sorry for the stupid questions, I just feel like I have to do everything exactly right or else I'll just be stuck.

That's not necessarily what I'm finding for California. It depends on the circumstances. Is there proper ventilation (a fan or window) as required in California? Is the mold severe or is this a situation that you can clean and then prevent in the future by simply drying the shower when you are done using it? It's not uncommon to have shower tiles or caulking with mold from tenant's ordinary use and lack of maintenance, and then cleaning as a regular chore around the house. That would be your responsibility. It usually doesn't cause health issues like your describing, though. But if the mold is due to issue with building or landlord's lack of maintenance, that's a different story.

I agree with Octavia that you should see if your local legal aid or tenant assistance program can be help or at least provide guidance. Some states are more favorable to to tenants than others. The sliding glass doors not closing, and thus not locking, is likely a building code violation. Landlord might prefer to let you out of the lease without penalty for mold problem so you don't report building code violations on other issues. While you're at it, go check for smoke detectors/fire alarms in the apartment and public areas, too, LOL.

Take pictures, and everything should be in writing. Do not call without writing as you will want to keep a record that you reported the problem, if you determine a report is warranted.

If it's minor and no code violations (proper ventilation) see if cleaning it, drying area after shower and using a portable fan in the bathroom after use helps your symptoms. I know . . . PITA.

Here are a couple of links with helpful information:

http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/problems.shtml

http://www.indoorrestore.com/resources/renters-rights/california-tenant-rights-mold/

 

[jjc]

Thank you Circe - I agree with you, but losing that money is going to hurt (it's all student loan money).

Thanks again mary poppins - I completely agree that of course, there can be mold on the tiles. I'm more concerned with the fact that it's on the ceilings, as well as in the fan. If I need to turn on the fan to ventilate, but the fan is just causing more spores to be released into the air, what do I do? I guess I just have to get a different fan for the bathroom and make sure every inch of the shower is dry, like you say.

I spoke to someone on the landlord-tenant division of the County Department of Consumer Affairs (the Housing department of the local legal aid are all closed today) and they said basically that nothing really can be done, especially since nothing has been in writing thus far for the almost three months I've lived here so far. I called my landlord to see if he could at least get someone in here to take a look at the mold and remove it, and he said that he would stop by at a later date because he's not feeling well, and clean the fan himself. I expressed a little concern since everything I've read warns against disturbing mold so as not to cause the spores to spread even more rapidly, aside from spraying it with cleaner on tiles and such. I feel that my landlord trying to clean the dusty and moldy fan in the ceiling will really cause the spores to fly around. I also asked for an email address, since I don't have any means of contacting my landlord other than his cell phone number and thus no way to document anything, and he flipped out. He asked me what I needed it for and I just said I would like a way to document our conversations going forward. He basically yelled at me for complaining so much, saying that I wanted to cause him trouble, and was all around super defensive. I understand the frustration from his perspective, but I don't think it's an outlandish request to have another way to contact him. Also, it doesn't seem to me that he's interested in complying with all the requirements of the building and health codes - none that will be at all costly to him, at least. I realize that asking for the email address understandably set him off, but what was I to do with no other way of documenting things?

I am also frustrated, and have been trying my best to manage these issues on my end (which of course will end up biting me in the rear for having lived here for three months with no documented complaints). My question now is, he seems to be pretty sick of me too, should I bring up ending the lease first? As it stands now, he's going to come by to take a look at the mold "when he's feeling better."

Thanks again for everyone's help.

 

[fleur-de-lis]

Mold conditions are very unhealthy.

The landlord is responsible for building maintenance and remediation. Do you know what is causing the condition? Leaky pipes, moisture coming through the walls, HVAC problem, leaky roof? You should write a letter to the landlord describing the situation (include pictures) and your health issues, and request that he address the problem by fixing the source and hiring a mold remediation company. Get a mold testing kit and use results as support for your letter. Generally, you cannot effectively clean mold conditions with ordinary cleaners and cleaning techniques.

What state do you live in? Check out the local, state and federal housing and health departments. Websites contain information for tenants, and some departments will come out and conduct tests.

Review your lease and see what the termination provisions state. Regardless, every lease has an implied warranty of habitability.

Are you dealing with an individual landlord or a management company?

ETA sorry you are going through this. Very frustrating on top of the noise issues.

Hi mary poppins, thank you so much for your response. The bathroom is in my room, which doesn't get any direct sunlight because of a tall building next door. The shower is behind and off to the side of the door of the bathroom, so it really doesn't get any light. I think generally, this landlord (individual) is interested in cutting costs above all else, as there are many defects in the apartment that he has yet to cure. For example, the counter top in the kitchen is not the correct size, so there are about 1 inch strips on the sides that are missing (with a bunch of gunk stuck inside!), both my and my neighbor's sliding glass doors don't close all the way - at least mine is only by about an inch on the bottom, but my neighbor's has about a three inch gap that is always open, and when she asked him to fix it, he just told her not to ever use the door/go onto her balcony so that it stays at least that shut! He's pretty ridiculous, but I was really desperate to find a place and it was the best of the bunch at the time in my price range.

I'm in California, I'm looking online for information from the housing departments, but all the information I've found so far says that I will be responsible for any costs?

Should I write him a letter in addition to calling him? He generally comes out to the apartment in a few days after you call him for a problem. Also, should I do the mold testing before I speak to him? I'm sorry for the stupid questions, I just feel like I have to do everything exactly right or else I'll just be stuck.

Hi JJC, I'll try to come back later this weekend with some links for you on the landlord-tenant law (in the meantime, here's a good website to start: http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/problems.shtml ), but as most people find disputes with landlords onerous, many find it worthwhile to make absolutely, positively *certain* that the situation at hand isn't remedied by simpler methods first. (Of course, take photos before doing anything.)

--Black mold. The press has certainly provided much coverage to the threat of "black mold" but there are many growing, mold-like, black-colored growths that are NOT the hyper-dangerous variety (e.g., Stachybotrys chartarum) which produce mycotoxins. To wit: mildew is black, grows in shower crevices and splatter marks on shower ceilings, and grows easily in bathrooms with poor ventilation. It's certainly not great for health, but it's also not the item in the press that killed Ed McMahon's cat. Buy some Tilex Mold and Mildew and test it on a patch of the black gunk. If it kills it and makes your test patch disappear, great! You just saved yourself the cost, time off of work, and hassle of having professional mold tester coming out.

--Side note which may be relevant: Sudden Onset Allergies. As a fellow Californian and intermittent allergy sufferer, I recently discovered that we are currently in a VERY HIGH activity period of Tree and Grass allergens in SoCal.

--If the shower test patch responds to the Tilex Mildew, you might want to purchase one of those dessicant tubs which remove moisture from the air in tight spaces for your bathroom; Bed Bath and Beyond sells them.

I'm sure the more litigious types around here would guide you about building a case-- and they may be right-- but I'd personally try ruling out the simpler things before spending big $$ on testing, remedying, and suing your landlord. $4 Tilex and a test patch might save you much grief.






(BTW, JJC, are you reconsidering your moratorium on moving after the new problems?)

 

[jjc]

Mold conditions are very unhealthy.

The landlord is responsible for building maintenance and remediation. Do you know what is causing the condition? Leaky pipes, moisture coming through the walls, HVAC problem, leaky roof? You should write a letter to the landlord describing the situation (include pictures) and your health issues, and request that he address the problem by fixing the source and hiring a mold remediation company. Get a mold testing kit and use results as support for your letter. Generally, you cannot effectively clean mold conditions with ordinary cleaners and cleaning techniques.

What state do you live in? Check out the local, state and federal housing and health departments. Websites contain information for tenants, and some departments will come out and conduct tests.

Review your lease and see what the termination provisions state. Regardless, every lease has an implied warranty of habitability.

Are you dealing with an individual landlord or a management company?

ETA sorry you are going through this. Very frustrating on top of the noise issues.

Hi mary poppins, thank you so much for your response. The bathroom is in my room, which doesn't get any direct sunlight because of a tall building next door. The shower is behind and off to the side of the door of the bathroom, so it really doesn't get any light. I think generally, this landlord (individual) is interested in cutting costs above all else, as there are many defects in the apartment that he has yet to cure. For example, the counter top in the kitchen is not the correct size, so there are about 1 inch strips on the sides that are missing (with a bunch of gunk stuck inside!), both my and my neighbor's sliding glass doors don't close all the way - at least mine is only by about an inch on the bottom, but my neighbor's has about a three inch gap that is always open, and when she asked him to fix it, he just told her not to ever use the door/go onto her balcony so that it stays at least that shut! He's pretty ridiculous, but I was really desperate to find a place and it was the best of the bunch at the time in my price range.

I'm in California, I'm looking online for information from the housing departments, but all the information I've found so far says that I will be responsible for any costs?

Should I write him a letter in addition to calling him? He generally comes out to the apartment in a few days after you call him for a problem. Also, should I do the mold testing before I speak to him? I'm sorry for the stupid questions, I just feel like I have to do everything exactly right or else I'll just be stuck.

Hi JJC, I'll try to come back later this weekend with some links for you on the landlord-tenant law (in the meantime, here's a good website to start: http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/problems.shtml ), but as most people find disputes with landlords onerous, many find it worthwhile to make absolutely, positively *certain* that the situation at hand isn't remedied by simpler methods first. (Of course, take photos before doing anything.)

--Black mold. The press has certainly provided much coverage to the threat of "black mold" but there are many growing, mold-like, black-colored growths that are NOT the hyper-dangerous variety (e.g., Stachybotrys chartarum) which produce mycotoxins. To wit: mildew is black, grows in shower crevices and splatter marks on shower ceilings, and grows easily in bathrooms with poor ventilation. It's certainly not great for health, but it's also not the item in the press that killed Ed McMahon's cat. Buy some Tilex Mold and Mildew and test it on a patch of the black gunk. If it kills it and makes your test patch disappear, great! You just saved yourself the cost, time off of work, and hassle of having professional mold tester coming out.

--Side note which may be relevant: Sudden Onset Allergies. As a fellow Californian and intermittent allergy sufferer, I recently discovered that we are currently in a VERY HIGH activity period of Tree and Grass allergens in SoCal.

--If the shower test patch responds to the Tilex Mildew, you might want to purchase one of those dessicant tubs which remove moisture from the air in tight spaces for your bathroom; Bed Bath and Beyond sells them.

I'm sure the more litigious types around here would guide you about building a case-- and they may be right-- but I'd personally try ruling out the simpler things before spending big $$ on testing, remedying, and suing your landlord. $4 Tilex and a test patch might save you much grief.






(BTW, JJC, are you reconsidering your moratorium on moving after the new problems?)

Thank you so much for taking out the time to respond, but as it turns out

HE'S LETTING ME OUT OF MY LEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Goodness, I can't even describe to you my level of elation right now!!!!!!

Thank you to everyone who responded, you are all life savers!!

And re: moving - as I said earlier in the thread, it was never an issue of whether I wanted to move, it was whether it was even financially feasible to just lose the entire deposit and then pay another deposit, pay movers, etc. etc. Thus the sound machines, months of doctors visits to alleviate all the symptoms. If anyone is feeling about my earlier position that I couldn't just pick up and move - I sincerely congratulate your being in a position of being able to eat those costs suddenly (not being sarcastic), I'm just not there currently and hope to be there soon. Hopefully this is the just first step on the road to better days

Thanks again, everyone!

 

[Kaleigh]

Awesome news jjc, so glad he's letting you out of your lease. Woohoo!!! Happy dance for you!!!!

 

[jjc]

Awesome news jjc, so glad he's letting you out of your lease. Woohoo!!! Happy dance for you!!!!

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

Would I be pushing my luck if I asked for dust that he finds a new tenant ASAP and I find a great new place soon??

 

[Enerchi]

FANTASTIC News JJC!!!! So glad you will be out of there into a healthier and hopefully quieter environment... VERY VERY SOON!

 

[Imdanny]

LOL Kenny, you are in opposition to your signature.

How so?


Moving would solve her problem.

She asked for advice.

Insensitive. The OP has an immediate problem and you gave her a medium term solution. Not to mention jobs, home, transportation (as I well know now), and finances are a coordinated thing. One can't assume a person can afford to move and certainly not immediately. If for no other reason than renters have leases.

You're welcome.

 

[Imdanny]

Awesome news jjc, so glad he's letting you out of your lease. Woohoo!!! Happy dance for you!!!!

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

Would I be pushing my luck if I asked for dust that he finds a new tenant ASAP and I find a great new place soon??

Of course not. Dust!

 

[jjc]

Thanks so so much enerchi and danny!! I'm cautiously optimistic that this will work out for the best

 

[Imdanny]

Here's an important tip in life; never bring someone a problem without bringing along a solution. It freaks them out if you don't tell them what to do next; they get that fight-or-flight thing going and get agressive. This is true for bosses, spouses, neighbors, etc. Your job is to present the problem, present the solution, and then motivate them to get from point A to point B without acting like it's their fault. There, you now have taken Management 101

iLander, this is brilliant advice!

Thank you!

I didn't know this. This is the one thing I did "wrong" when trying to negotiate with my landlord.

This is uncanny-ly spot on. Fight-or-flight was exactly his response, and exactly what happened (he did both, in turns) when I came to him to try to resolve things, but did not bring a proposal including a payment plan with specific dates and amounts.

Harvard's business school has nothing on you! You didn't tell us, or at least I didn't know, that you are an excellent businesswoman. I'm impressed.

 

[Imdanny]

Thanks so so much enerchi and danny!! I'm cautiously optimistic that this will work out for the best

jjc, you're welcome. Please let us know how it works out!

 

[mary poppins]

Just saw your update, jjc. Congratulations on getting out of your lease!

I hope the next place you move to is a much better experience.

 

[iLander]

Here's an important tip in life; never bring someone a problem without bringing along a solution. It freaks them out if you don't tell them what to do next; they get that fight-or-flight thing going and get agressive. This is true for bosses, spouses, neighbors, etc. Your job is to present the problem, present the solution, and then motivate them to get from point A to point B without acting like it's their fault. There, you now have taken Management 101

iLander, this is brilliant advice!

Thank you!

I didn't know this. This is the one thing I did "wrong" when trying to negotiate with my landlord.

This is uncanny-ly spot on. Fight-or-flight was exactly his response, and exactly what happened (he did both, in turns) when I came to him to try to resolve things, but did not bring a proposal including a payment plan with specific dates and amounts.

Harvard's business school has nothing on you! You didn't tell us, or at least I didn't know, that you are an excellent businesswoman. I'm impressed.

Just now noticed this compliment, Danny! Thank you, you made my day.

This advice works for anything; waitresses, SO's, bank tellers, landlords, anybody. I think people want to help and do the right thing, but if you don't tell them how to do it, they get wiggy.

Actually, I've been running my own company for 25+ years if that helps to know.