WWYD - Neighbor problem

[lyra]

Be prepared for nothing to change. It may be an issue with the soundproofing in the building. It may always be noisy in your apt., even if heels lady moves (since you say you cannot move). Ask the landlord if something structural can be done, maybe even just in your bedroom if that would help. Buy noise cancelling headphones or ear plugs--I have done, and do these things myself. I understand the stress involved, and wish you well, but you have to be realistic too. There's really nothing you can do about it if she refuses to change anything, or if it really is just a fault in the building. I'm sorry you're stressed, and I think the landlord should fix the situation if at all possible. It shouldn't be up to you.

 

[stargurl78]

I don't have much more advice to add that has been said already but can I suggest buying a fan and running it on high for when you sleep? I had a horribly rude roommate when I was in college and he would wake up early for work and would have no consideration for those of us sleeping in the house. I would talk to him about it but I think he flat out just didn't care because it continued every single day. Well one hot night I had my box fan on high and I slept peacefully through the night because the white noise of the fan drowned out his noisiness. I have slept with a fan on every night since then. I know its a waste of electricity but I am such a light sleeper that there is no way I would get any sleep without it (my husband is a snorer ). Anyways, just a suggestion.

 

[jjc]

Be prepared for nothing to change. It may be an issue with the soundproofing in the building. It may always be noisy in your apt., even if heels lady moves (since you say you cannot move). Ask the landlord if something structural can be done, maybe even just in your bedroom if that would help. Buy noise cancelling headphones or ear plugs--I have done, and do these things myself. I understand the stress involved, and wish you well, but you have to be realistic too. There's really nothing you can do about it if she refuses to change anything, or if it really is just a fault in the building. I'm sorry you're stressed, and I think the landlord should fix the situation if at all possible. It shouldn't be up to you.

Thanks so much lyra, you are right, I think it really is just the building and a lack of insulation beneath the hardwood floors.

MINI UPDATE: So, I've been thinking about what all you wise and thoughtful PS'ers have posted all day, and was able to clear my head about this situation to realize that a) this apartment is much, much noisier than any building I've ever before lived in, and b) as I said earlier, I was able to tell, and very much appreciated, that the neighbor did make an effort to be quieter and she probably wasn't a jerk that just didn't care. And yet it was still SO LOUD. So I decided to go upstairs to speak with her and let her know that I didn't think the problem was her, and could we approach the landlord together tomorrow about his making some changes to the building so as to reduce the noise. I also apologized for not coming to speak with her first and for the banging on the wall. And she was lovely and so understanding, so I feel a ton better about the situation. Of course, there's no guarantee that the landlord will do anything, so we may just end up back at square one. But at least there won't be any bad blood, which is the last thing I wanted, especially with a neighbor. That's probably why I was so hesitant to go speak to her earlier - I've been going through some really hard times and moving here was my exodus from a really bad situation. I was in a bad spot, angry about the noise, and I just didn't trust myself to handle the situation gracefully and wanted to avoid making the situation really sour. But lesson learned - there really are some wonderful people out there (although they are surely the exception!). All of that to say, thank you so much to the wonderful and wise PS community. You really helped me navigate through a tricky situation, the right way. I just really hope the landlord will make some changes to the building so I can get some bloody sleep!!

 

[jjc]

I don't have much more advice to add that has been said already but can I suggest buying a fan and running it on high for when you sleep? I had a horribly rude roommate when I was in college and he would wake up early for work and would have no consideration for those of us sleeping in the house. I would talk to him about it but I think he flat out just didn't care because it continued every single day. Well one hot night I had my box fan on high and I slept peacefully through the night because the white noise of the fan drowned out his noisiness. I have slept with a fan on every night since then. I know its a waste of electricity but I am such a light sleeper that there is no way I would get any sleep without it (my husband is a snorer ). Anyways, just a suggestion.

Thank you for the suggestion stargurl! Do you still use the fan in the winter? I think maybe I should get one of those sound machines, although I do keep the TV on for some white noise, I wonder if the sound machine would be better?

 

[iheartscience]

Duh, totally forgot about white noise! I got a free white noise app on my iPhone which helped me go to sleep when the neighbors were being especially loud. It's creatively titled "White Noise" if you have an iPhone. There are also specific machines you can get I think.

I'm so glad you talked to her and I hope you can figure something out to make the rest of your time there bearable! Keep us posted!

 

[jjc]

Duh, totally forgot about white noise! I got a free white noise app on my iPhone which helped me go to sleep when the neighbors were being especially loud. It's creatively titled "White Noise" if you have an iPhone. There are also specific machines you can get I think.

I'm so glad you talked to her and I hope you can figure something out to make the rest of your time there bearable! Keep us posted!

Do you mean to say...there's an app for that? Sorry
Thanks so much for letting me know! I will go look that up. Like now. And I will definitely update tomorrow, please keep your fingers crossed for me!!

 

[Maisie]

I think you have handled the situation very well. I know how frustrated you were and I applaud your ability to step back and think it through.

I also second the white noise. I have my fan going at nights all year round. I can't sleep without it. I live in the countryside where its completely silent at night - and it keeps me awake. Not sure why!

 

[stargurl78]

Yes, I do still use the fan in the winter, I just don't have it facing the bed. But a white noise machine would probably make more sense, especially because the fan I have is big and takes up a lot of room. I do have an iPhone so I'm going to check out that app too!

 

[Efe]

Marpac Sleepmate white noise machine. Worth.every.penny.

 

[iheartscience]

Duh, totally forgot about white noise! I got a free white noise app on my iPhone which helped me go to sleep when the neighbors were being especially loud. It's creatively titled "White Noise" if you have an iPhone. There are also specific machines you can get I think.

I'm so glad you talked to her and I hope you can figure something out to make the rest of your time there bearable! Keep us posted!

Do you mean to say...there's an app for that? Sorry
Thanks so much for letting me know! I will go look that up. Like now. And I will definitely update tomorrow, please keep your fingers crossed for me!!

There is indeed! And my fingers are crossed! I totally understand how awful it is to have NO peace and quiet, so I really hope you can come up with some good solutions!

 

[Amber St. Clare]

I don't have much more advice to add that has been said already but can I suggest buying a fan and running it on high for when you sleep? I had a horribly rude roommate when I was in college and he would wake up early for work and would have no consideration for those of us sleeping in the house. I would talk to him about it but I think he flat out just didn't care because it continued every single day. Well one hot night I had my box fan on high and I slept peacefully through the night because the white noise of the fan drowned out his noisiness. I have slept with a fan on every night since then. I know its a waste of electricity but I am such a light sleeper that there is no way I would get any sleep without it (my husband is a snorer ). Anyways, just a suggestion.

Thank you for the suggestion stargurl! Do you still use the fan in the winter? I think maybe I should get one of those sound machines, although I do keep the TV on for some white noise, I wonder if the sound machine would be better?

I use an environmental machine to help me sleep--it is currently set to the "ocean" option. I have used it for YEARS--when I lived in NYC and had crappy neighbors and to drown out the husband snoring {it was less than successful--we sleep in different rooms now}. I find it really efective to drown out ambient sound--whether it is my son's music from across the hall or noise out on the street.

 

[Porridge]

Good for you! That was a great solution. I also second white noise, I can't sleep without it. My roomie's bf is...well, he's a grunter

And good heavens, don't anyone go through the massive trouble of moving apartment (I HATE packing, I assume everyone else does too!) before trying to simply talk to a neighbour! What if the new apartment had equal or worse problems? Definitely worth seeking resolution first!

 

[Laila619]

I'm so sorry. I would invest in some good quality ear plugs. The foam ones don't work very well from my experience. I have a soft plastic pair and those really work.

 

[amc80]

Glad the situation is improving. I once lived under a deaf woman and her teenage daughter. The daughter would blast her music all the time. There was also a smaller kid (grandkid?) who visited often and ran around like crazy. My roommate and I wrote a letter and left it on her doorstep. She came down with her daughter and was not happy. She said (through her daughter's translation) that we were lying about everything. Luckily the daughter admitted that she does play her music really late. Oh, the lady also tried to tell us that she had more rights because she owned her unit and we only rented ours.

 

[Enerchi]

Great pro active conversation JJC! I hope it works out better for you from here on in. It is so hard to speak up and confront someone when you are emotional and not wanting to upset the other person. It sounds like your conversation went very well --- hope it becomes much less stressful and noisy from here on in! How nice you were able to meet with her and express your concerns in a calm and rational manner.

 

[dani13]

Marpac Sleepmate white noise machine. Worth.every.penny.

Get this. And a fan. Keep it on all night. It will soo help you!!! I love my Marpac sound machine and take it with me everywhere. I can't sleep without it now. It amazing how much noise it drowns out!!!!

http://www.amazon.com/Marpac-SleepMate-980A-Electro-Mechanical-Conditioner/dp/B000KUHFGM

 

[lulu]

I have the Marpac too and I love it. It really helps me sleep through DH's snoring.

 

[MyDiamondSparkles]

I'm a landlord and I own a few double duplexes, which is where someone lives above you. We had the exact same situation you are describing and it was awful for everyone. We do have a clause in our lease that in double duplexes the upstairs unit must have 90 percent of the hardwood floors covered with area rugs which helps a lot on noise reduction. But let's face it some tenants are noisier than others.

I like that you are working with the upstairs tenant on a solution to the problem and I hope things move in a positive direction. I do love the idea of a white noise fan too. Carpet might help and perhaps your landlord would foot the bill for the cost.

Big hugs coming your way as I know how hard this is to deal with. ((((((()))))))

 

[jjc]

Hi everyone! So...the meeting went pretty much exactly how my neighbor and I thought it would go. The landlord got defensive, tried to pit us against each other with himself cast as the magnanimous mediator even though we both told him that we'd already spoken and realized we were both not in the wrong, and then said that there was absolutely nothing wrong with the building, attempted to educate us on what it's like to live in an apartment, and basically just kept saying words, useless, aggravating words. At least it was no surprise.

BUT...I ordered the Marpac and I am very hopeful that I will be able to sleep with it on and I will be happy with that. I'm actually super excited for it to arrive just because I've never really slept particularly deeply so this could be a gamechanger, noisy building notwithstanding! So thank you so, so much stargurl, Thing, Amber, Porridge, Dani, lulu for the white noise suggestion! (And Porridge - re: roomies' bf - ew. Ew ew. haha!)

Maisie - thank you. And living out in the countryside in peace and quiet sounds quite divine right now, but I agree, sometimes when it's too quiet you in turn can't quiet the mind.

Laila - thanks, hopefully I won't need the earplugs with the white noise machine but if I need them I'll definitely try the plastic ones, I've only had the foam ones.

amc - yowza that doesn't sound like it was a good situation at all. I'm glad the daughter at least fessed up.

Enerchi - thank you, it did feel really hard to go and confront her at the time, but I'm glad that's over and I'm so lucky that my neighbor turned out not to be a jerk!

MyDiamond - thanks for giving me the landlord perspective and thanks especially for the hugs! It's a shame that my landlord isn't willing to do anything to help, but at least my neighbor is willing to work with me, so that's a plus.

You all are so amazing! Thanks again for being so thoughtful and kind and taking the time to share your experiences and thoughts with me. And I can't wait to get this white noise machine in the mail ahh!!

 

[dani13]

Awesome!!! You're really going to love it!! I've turned several people onto the Marpac over the years. My best friend now uses it every night, and even my husband makes sure I've packed it when we go on vacation- he can't sleep without it either, lol!!!

Let us know how it goes, and good luck!!!

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Be prepared for nothing to change. It may be an issue with the soundproofing in the building. It may always be noisy in your apt., even if heels lady moves (since you say you cannot move). Ask the landlord if something structural can be done, maybe even just in your bedroom if that would help. Buy noise cancelling headphones or ear plugs--I have done, and do these things myself. I understand the stress involved, and wish you well, but you have to be realistic too. There's really nothing you can do about it if she refuses to change anything, or if it really is just a fault in the building. I'm sorry you're stressed, and I think the landlord should fix the situation if at all possible. It shouldn't be up to you.

Yes, it probably is the soundproofing of the apartment. We had lived in a place and the guy below us would bang on the ceiling at us so I literally walked on my tippy toes and even sometimes would sit for hours a day, not moving, just so I didn't have to deal with him being a jerk. And, this is me walking in SOCKS and I'm a petite woman. The thing he didn't get was I could hear HIM walking downstairs in his apartment. No joke. If I sat and my desk, I could hear his stomping around downstairs. His snoring also kept me up at night! It was simply the situation of the lack of soundproofing between floors!

 

[Amber St. Clare]

 

[jjc]

Hi all - I'm back with an update and a few more questions that I would greatly appreciate your help on, particularly those who are landlords. I've been using the Marpac sound machine, in addition to the iPhone app set at 'Extreme Rain Pouring' (really, really loud), and while it definitely does help a little in drowning out sounds like talking or stuff coming from outside, it doesn't really do anything for the pounding I hear directly above my bed due to the lack of insulation between the floors Now that I know that there probably isn't much that can be done in terms of the noise I hear from my upstairs neighbor, I was just trying to accept it. I generally get about 3 hours of sleep a night, but I'm trying to manage.

This morning, however, I realized that this apartment is making me sick - mold infestation in the bathroom. I've had a terrible cough the whole time I've been living here - I mean 2+ months of really bad coughing, from the chest. I've been to the doctor and it's not pneumonia, not bronchitis, they say it's 'allergies.' My eyes have been incredibly itchy, my nose is always running, I'm dizzy - but hey, maybe it was just some unknown allergen. But I've been piecing together - my room often has a musty odor even though I open the window and air it out every day, my bathroom gets very little ventilation and is always moist despite my best efforts, there's mold forming on the ceiling above my shower and it's very black along the tiles, and the fan in the bathroom (no window and little to no direct sunlight) is absolutely covered in dust, and I imagine, mold. My skin is also very sticky and itchy all the time, which seems to be a symptom of mold poisoning.

At this point I'm at the end of my rope. I'm scared to try to get rid of all the mold myself, especially from the fan, because apparently you have to seal off the room with plastic sheets and duct tape to prevent the mold spreading everywhere (although at this point I think it's flying around everywhere already), and I really don't think my landlord will do anything to help. Constant noise and not getting any sleep or peace is one thing, but I feel like now this apartment is really affecting my health. I realize that by signing the lease I basically agreed to take the apartment as it was and that's my responsibility, but is there anything I can do to get out of my lease without paying a penalty? Of course I'll be speaking with my landlord, but I'd just like to be informed and prepared as much as is possible.

Thanks for reading

 

[Octavia]

Please speak to a lawyer who does landlord-tenant work, or at least a tenants rights organization in your area. Some conditions, such as mold growth, insect or rodent infestations, structural issues, etc can be cause for getting out of the lease without penalty, but you won't know for sure whether your particular situation qualifies (or how to get the proof you would need) until you talk to someone familiar with the laws and codes in your state/city.

ETA: the landlord usually has to be given a chance to remedy the situation first, and only if he or she fails to address it can the tenant break the lease. This may vary by jurisdiction, another good reason to speak with someone knowledgeable in your area. At the very least, if I were you I would keep documentation of any conversations you have with the landlord about the issue in case you need to show later that the landlord knew from X date about the problem.

 

[mary poppins]

Mold conditions are very unhealthy.

The landlord is responsible for building maintenance and remediation. Do you know what is causing the condition? Leaky pipes, moisture coming through the walls, HVAC problem, leaky roof? You should write a letter to the landlord describing the situation (include pictures) and your health issues, and request that he address the problem by fixing the source and hiring a mold remediation company. Get a mold testing kit and use results as support for your letter. Generally, you cannot effectively clean mold conditions with ordinary cleaners and cleaning techniques.

What state do you live in? Check out the local, state and federal housing and health departments. Websites contain information for tenants, and some departments will come out and conduct tests.

Review your lease and see what the termination provisions state. Regardless, every lease has an implied warranty of habitability.

Are you dealing with an individual landlord or a management company?

ETA sorry you are going through this. Very frustrating on top of the noise issues.

 

[jjc]

Please speak to a lawyer who does landlord-tenant work, or at least a tenants rights organization in your area. Some conditions, such as mold growth, insect or rodent infestations, structural issues, etc can be cause for getting out of the lease without penalty, but you won't know for sure whether your particular situation qualifies (or how to get the proof you would need) until you talk to someone familiar with the laws and codes in your state/city.

ETA: the landlord usually has to be given a chance to remedy the situation first, and only if he or she fails to address it can the tenant break the lease. This may vary by jurisdiction, another good reason to speak with someone knowledgeable in your area. At the very least, if I were you I would keep documentation of any conversations you have with the landlord about the issue in case you need to show later that the landlord knew from X date about the problem.

Thanks Octavia, I think I will call my local legal aid and tenants rights association for help with this.

 

[jjc]

Mold conditions are very unhealthy.

The landlord is responsible for building maintenance and remediation. Do you know what is causing the condition? Leaky pipes, moisture coming through the walls, HVAC problem, leaky roof? You should write a letter to the landlord describing the situation (include pictures) and your health issues, and request that he address the problem by fixing the source and hiring a mold remediation company. Get a mold testing kit and use results as support for your letter. Generally, you cannot effectively clean mold conditions with ordinary cleaners and cleaning techniques.

What state do you live in? Check out the local, state and federal housing and health departments. Websites contain information for tenants, and some departments will come out and conduct tests.

Review your lease and see what the termination provisions state. Regardless, every lease has an implied warranty of habitability.

Are you dealing with an individual landlord or a management company?

ETA sorry you are going through this. Very frustrating on top of the noise issues.

Hi mary poppins, thank you so much for your response. The bathroom is in my room, which doesn't get any direct sunlight because of a tall building next door. The shower is behind and off to the side of the door of the bathroom, so it really doesn't get any light. I think generally, this landlord (individual) is interested in cutting costs above all else, as there are many defects in the apartment that he has yet to cure. For example, the counter top in the kitchen is not the correct size, so there are about 1 inch strips on the sides that are missing (with a bunch of gunk stuck inside!), both my and my neighbor's sliding glass doors don't close all the way - at least mine is only by about an inch on the bottom, but my neighbor's has about a three inch gap that is always open, and when she asked him to fix it, he just told her not to ever use the door/go onto her balcony so that it stays at least that shut! He's pretty ridiculous, but I was really desperate to find a place and it was the best of the bunch at the time in my price range.

I'm in California, I'm looking online for information from the housing departments, but all the information I've found so far says that I will be responsible for any costs?

Should I write him a letter in addition to calling him? He generally comes out to the apartment in a few days after you call him for a problem. Also, should I do the mold testing before I speak to him? I'm sorry for the stupid questions, I just feel like I have to do everything exactly right or else I'll just be stuck.

 

[dragonfly411]

jjc - At this point, I think you might be better off considering Kenny's advice literally. Mold is a serious problem, and can cause long term problems for your health. That combined with the lack of sleep due to noise sounds like moving might be a healthy option for you! Please consider it.

 

[jjc]

jjc - At this point, I think you might be better off considering Kenny's advice literally. Mold is a serious problem, and can cause long term problems for your health. That combined with the lack of sleep due to noise sounds like moving might be a healthy option for you! Please consider it.

Thank you, absolutely I am trying to figure out a way that I can move - I need to get out of my lease so that I can move without paying 9 months of rent left on the lease.

 

[dragonfly411]

I would think that consistent mold would be a breach of contract.