WWYD - Neighbor problem

[jjc]

My apartment building has hardwood floors in all the units, and the neighbor above me wears her heels and walks around incessantly all through the day and sounds like she's dragging around heavy pieces of furniture all day long. She continues to clomp around in her heels until 11pm, midnight, even 1 am some days, and talks extremely loudly. In the mornings, she wakes up and stomps around at 6 am right above my bed, every day - Saturday and Sunday mornings included. All of this is really starting to take a toll on me - dealing with the constant clomping around in heels all day, not being able to sleep at night, being woken up with a start every day that I'm not already up - I'm constantly tired/stressed/angry and at my wit's end. All I ask is that she not walk around in heels all the time, and just be a little mindful during the times of day that other people might be sleeping - before 7:30-8 am (especially on weekends), and past 10-11 pm.

I finally said something to the landlord after months and months of trying to live with it, and when it gets especially bad I bang on the ceiling/wall. This morning I was startled awake as she screamed at someone on the phone at 6:30 am, and then proceeded to stomp around - I lost it and banged on the wall really hard. Turns out, she called the landlord, upset that I banged on the wall when all she did was 'walk to the bathroom.' Well, right, that is all she did. Except there's a difference between walking normally and stomping (I can also hear when she walks normally and that's obviously not an issue or something I would complain about). My landlord, she and I are scheduled to talk face to face tomorrow, and I just don't want this to turn into a situation where she becomes louder out of spite or something. I also don't want to stress about this anymore, and really need to be able to sleep and function normally. Help??

 

[kenny]

Move.

 

[Amys Bling]

Id explain that with the hardwood floors her walking around in heels is quite loud and you would appreciate courtesy regarding late night and early hours..

 

[jjc]

Kenny - That was supremely unhelpful, not sure why you took the time to even post that.

 

[jjc]

The thing is, the landlord has already told her that and while she started to walk a bit more carefully in her heels after their conversation, she still doesn't see what's wrong with stomping around at 6 am. Am I beyond the 'trying to reason with her' stage? But I don't want it to turn into an angry back and forth?

 

[minousbijoux]

Do you think you might get her to consider some nice rugs? They really do deaden the sound considerably...

 

[jjc]

Do you think you might get her to consider some nice rugs? They really do deaden the sound considerably...

Thanks minous, that's a great idea. I only hope she goes for it. Something tells me she won't...

 

[kenny]

Kenny - That was supremely unhelpful, not sure why you took the time to even post that.

If you move she won't live above you.

 

[Matata]

I had a similar issue years ago when a single mom & toddler lived above me. Oy, the noise plastic wheels on kiddie bikes can make! Anyway, the woman thought I was being belligerent and rude when I spoke to her about it and I finally asked her into my apartment while I went upstairs to play with her daughter. Three minutes later, she came up and apologized. She just couldn't believe how noisy it was until she heard it herself. Maybe you could try that with your neighbor. Mind, though, that she has to be a reasonable person to begin with. Some folks just won't care.

 

[iLander]

Start with a calm voice and say "my purpose here today is not to make you feel self-conscious, or feel bad being in your space (diffuse what she's thinking). But I would like to make you aware of something that isn't easy to realize; the floors magnify the noise of normal walking (notice I did not say "your walking"- avoid the word "you" or it will be taken as accusatory). The sound of high heels is magnified because of the way the space is built. For me, a quiet environment is very helpful between 9pm and 8 am (or whatever hours you want). Is there any possibility that you can help me out by removing seeing that shoes are removed during this time?"

Whatever you do keep it calm, make it sound like she would be helping you, and smile. Then keep repeating no matter what her response, and avoid the word "you". Practice what you'll say tonight, preferably with someone that can help you.

If this doesn't work, check your lease for "quiet enjoyment" and also county statutes for this wording. You may be able to break the lease if necessary.

 

[jjc]

I had a similar issue years ago when a single mom & toddler lived above me. Oy, the noise plastic wheels on kiddie bikes can make! Anyway, the woman thought I was being belligerent and rude when I spoke to her about it and I finally asked her into my apartment while I went upstairs to play with her daughter. Three minutes later, she came up and apologized. She just couldn't believe how noisy it was until she heard it herself. Maybe you could try that with your neighbor. Mind, though, that she has to be a reasonable person to begin with. Some folks just won't care.

Thanks Matata, I thought of doing that, and my landlord suggested it as well. I hope she's a reasonable enough person that this will actually make a difference in the noise she makes. And if she isn't - well I hope that a pair of earplugs will at least help me get some sleep

 

[jjc]

Start with a calm voice and say "my purpose here today is not to make you feel self-conscious, or feel bad being in your space (diffuse what she's thinking). But I would like to make you aware of something that isn't easy to realize; the floors magnify the noise of normal walking (notice I did not say "your walking"- avoid the word "you" or it will be taken as accusatory). The sound of high heels is magnified because of the way the space is built. For me, a quiet environment is very helpful between 9pm and 8 am (or whatever hours you want). Is there any possibility that you can help me out by removing seeing that shoes are removed during this time?"

Whatever you do keep it calm, make it sound like she would be helping you, and smile. Then keep repeating no matter what her response, and avoid the word "you". Practice what you'll say tonight, preferably with someone that can help you.

If this doesn't work, check your lease for "quiet enjoyment" and also county statutes for this wording. You may be able to break the lease if necessary.

Thank you so much iLander!!! I really needed this - I'm so wound up and not thinking clearly, I was worried that I would just start screaming like a crazy person tomorrow.

I checked the lease and there is a 'Quiet Enjoyment/Use' provision, but it's geared more toward the landlord's right in removing a tenant that fails to comply. Although I really really hope it doesn't come to that - a move, even without paying an early lease termination fee, is just not feasible right now.

Thanks again, I feel so relieved after having read your response I feel like I'm going to cry. (I told you I'm crazy from the lack of sleep!!)

 

[Kaleigh]

jjc,
My initial thought was the same as Kenny's. I look at it as a practical thing. This isn't working for you, you are not able to sleep. I doubt she will stop wearing her heels ... So that will just add to your frustation...

I would have talked to her before going to the landlord, but that's just me.

I really hope you can work this out. I know how you feel, trust me...

But am at a point in my life where, I would cut out BS and move to a place that wouldn't give me any added stress...

Best of luck , please let us know how the meeting goes tomorrow...

 

[kenny]

I would have talked to her before going to the landlord, but that's just me.

Me too.
When I moved into my house I first knocked on the doors of both neighbors and told them I play piano.
If it bothers them let me know and I'll find a different time to practice.
As it turns out they love the sound and ask me to open my windows when I practice.

I realize heels on hardwood floors is not Chopin but the human to human face to face friendly contact works WONDERS!

 

[kenny]

I would have talked to her before going to the landlord, but that's just me.

Me too.
When I moved into my house I first knocked on the doors of both neighbors and told them I play piano.
If it bothers them let me know and I'll find a different time to practice.
This set a tone of consideration and courtesy that has led to years of neighborly peace and harmony.
As it turns out they love the sound and ask me to open my windows when I practice.

I realize heels on hardwood floors is not Chopin but the human to human face to face friendly contact works WONDERS

Stooping to banging on the roof frankly is worse than what the woman above is doing.
It's childish and only throws gas onto a fire.

 

[jjc]

Obviously if moving were an option I wouldn't be stressed out, about to cry, and posting about it here. And I was intending on speaking with my neighbor first, but my landlord knocked on my door one day quite randomly to talk about something else, he asked how everything was going, and I guess my face gave it away that things weren't completely peachy and so that's how it came out.

And Kenny, congratulations. You know, just in general.
And when you need to wake up at 5 am and you need the noise at 1 am to stop, that's really the only option. And I don't know if it's because I've been home-invaded, but I HATE it when someone knocks on the door when I'm not expecting anyone. I'd much rather have someone bang on the wall to let me know that I'm being loud. I guess when something applies to you, people differ. But anything else is childish. But again, congratulations.

 

[Matata]

LOL Kenny, you are in opposition to your signature.

JJC, maybe when you speak to your neighbor you should explain how the conversation with the landlord occurred so she doesn't feel she has to be on the defensive with you. If possible, maybe have the discussion over a glass of wine. Loosens up the barriers a bit.

 

[iLander]

Start with a calm voice and say "my purpose here today is not to make you feel self-conscious, or feel bad being in your space (diffuse what she's thinking). But I would like to make you aware of something that isn't easy to realize; the floors magnify the noise of normal walking (notice I did not say "your walking"- avoid the word "you" or it will be taken as accusatory). The sound of high heels is magnified because of the way the space is built. For me, a quiet environment is very helpful between 9pm and 8 am (or whatever hours you want). Is there any possibility that you can help me out by removing seeing that shoes are removed during this time?"

Whatever you do keep it calm, make it sound like she would be helping you, and smile. Then keep repeating no matter what her response, and avoid the word "you". Practice what you'll say tonight, preferably with someone that can help you.

If this doesn't work, check your lease for "quiet enjoyment" and also county statutes for this wording. You may be able to break the lease if necessary.

Thank you so much iLander!!! I really needed this - I'm so wound up and not thinking clearly, I was worried that I would just start screaming like a crazy person tomorrow.

I checked the lease and there is a 'Quiet Enjoyment/Use' provision, but it's geared more toward the landlord's right in removing a tenant that fails to comply. Although I really really hope it doesn't come to that - a move, even without paying an early lease termination fee, is just not feasible right now.

Thanks again, I feel so relieved after having read your response I feel like I'm going to cry. (I told you I'm crazy from the lack of sleep!!)

Don't cry! You poor thing, just relax, it'll be fine.

When you have a difficult conversation to get through, just practice, keep calm, and remember your goal.

Here's an important tip in life; never bring someone a problem without bringing along a solution. It freaks them out if you don't tell them what to do next; they get that fight-or-flight thing going and get agressive. This is true for bosses, spouses, neighbors, etc. Your job is to present the problem, present the solution, and then motivate them to get from point A to point B without acting like it's their fault. There, you now have taken Management 101

Your problem is that "shoes make noise on the wooden floor". Your solution is if "shoes were not worn on the wooden floor during certain times they would not make noise". Your motivation is it would be "extremely appreciated" if your neighbor could "help make that happen".

 

[kenny]

LOL Kenny, you are in opposition to your signature.

How so?

Moving would solve her problem.

She asked for advice.

 

[jjc]

LOL Kenny, you are in opposition to your signature.

JJC, maybe when you speak to your neighbor you should explain how the conversation with the landlord occurred so she doesn't feel she has to be on the defensive with you. If possible, maybe have the discussion over a glass of wine. Loosens up the barriers a bit.

Thanks Matata, I will definitely start off by letting her know. Between yours and iLander's suggestions, I'm feeling much better about how to go about this meeting.

 

[jjc]

LOL Kenny, you are in opposition to your signature.

How so?

Moving would solve her problem.

She asked for advice.

You're quite funny.

 

[Kaleigh]

Like Matata's idea. The other thing I was thinking, was what if the shoe was on the other foot... I am not kidding...


Have her come to your place and let her hear what it sounds like .. The landlord can walk on her floors... So she can get a feel of what you hear.... Sounds reasonable to me???

 

[jjc]

Start with a calm voice and say "my purpose here today is not to make you feel self-conscious, or feel bad being in your space (diffuse what she's thinking). But I would like to make you aware of something that isn't easy to realize; the floors magnify the noise of normal walking (notice I did not say "your walking"- avoid the word "you" or it will be taken as accusatory). The sound of high heels is magnified because of the way the space is built. For me, a quiet environment is very helpful between 9pm and 8 am (or whatever hours you want). Is there any possibility that you can help me out by removing seeing that shoes are removed during this time?"

Whatever you do keep it calm, make it sound like she would be helping you, and smile. Then keep repeating no matter what her response, and avoid the word "you". Practice what you'll say tonight, preferably with someone that can help you.

If this doesn't work, check your lease for "quiet enjoyment" and also county statutes for this wording. You may be able to break the lease if necessary.

Thank you so much iLander!!! I really needed this - I'm so wound up and not thinking clearly, I was worried that I would just start screaming like a crazy person tomorrow.

I checked the lease and there is a 'Quiet Enjoyment/Use' provision, but it's geared more toward the landlord's right in removing a tenant that fails to comply. Although I really really hope it doesn't come to that - a move, even without paying an early lease termination fee, is just not feasible right now.

Thanks again, I feel so relieved after having read your response I feel like I'm going to cry. (I told you I'm crazy from the lack of sleep!!)

Don't cry! You poor thing, just relax, it'll be fine.

When you have a difficult conversation to get through, just practice, keep calm, and remember your goal.

Here's an important tip in life; never bring someone a problem without bringing along a solution. It freaks them out if you don't tell them what to do next; they get that fight-or-flight thing going and get agressive. This is true for bosses, spouses, neighbors, etc. Your job is to present the problem, present the solution, and then motivate them to get from point A to point B without acting like it's their fault. There, you now have taken Management 101

Your problem is that "shoes make noise on the wooden floor". Your solution is if "shoes were not worn on the wooden floor during certain times they would not make noise". Your motivation is it would be "extremely appreciated" if your neighbor could "help make that happen".

Thanks iLander! It's just hard because I can see her point of view. I know that she's not trying to be rude or make noise. I also acknowledge that she's made an effort to be quieter. If there were any way I could just live with it I would.

 

[Matata]

LOL Kenny, you are in opposition to your signature.

How so?

Moving would solve her problem.

She asked for advice.

By saying her decision to bang on the ceiling was "childish" you judged the decision to be wrong.

 

[jjc]

Like Matata's idea. The other thing I was thinking, was what if the shoe was on the other foot... I am not kidding...


Have her come to your place and let her hear what it sounds like .. The landlord can walk on her floors... So she can get a feel of what you hear.... Sounds reasonable to me???

Yes absolutely - except it has to be me up there walking around, in heels. The landlord is a man

 

[Kaleigh]

Like Matata's idea. The other thing I was thinking, was what if the shoe was on the other foot... I am not kidding...


Have her come to your place and let her hear what it sounds like .. The landlord can walk on her floors... So she can get a feel of what you hear.... Sounds reasonable to me???

Yes absolutely - except it has to be me up there walking around, in heels. The landlord is a man

I know he's a man, but was thinking she wouldn't want you walking in her apartment. Hey if she agrees to you doing that?? That would be great...

 

[ladypirate]

Sometimes it is an issue with the building--I used to live in an old apartment building with hardwood floors. Me sitting in my desk chair on a rug (literally just sitting, not rolling around, just sitting), apparently was loud enough for my downstairs neighbor to come up and ask me to quiet down on multiple occasions. I finally got rid of the chair and sat on a blow-up excercise ball. Even through I wasn't being unduly loud (or loud at all, really), the building amplified it to the point that it was bothersome. It's possible your upstairs neighbor really is just walking around and it sounds quiet in her apartment. Can you invite her down and have someone walk around in her apartment so she can see how loud it is for you?

 

[iheartscience]

Ugh, I'm sorry. The last place I lived was a very noisy apartment building so I feel your pain. When the guy would take his shoes off it sounded like he was dropping them from 10 feet up instead of just taking them off and letting them fall on the ground. And banging on the floor/ceiling/wall sure helped at that place. It was either that or go get the security guard, because we were specifically told not to go to a noisy neighbor directly to tell them to STFU. (Guess it had gotten ugly when previous tenants did that.)

I think iLander's advice is great, as is letting her hear what it sounds like when someone walks around in heels above her. (As a side note, I find it bizarre that someone wears heels around in the house! Not comfy!) I hope the meeting goes well, and if it continues to be an issue I would talk to your landlord about moving to another unit in the same building, if possible. (Not sure how big of a building you're in.) Or see when this girl's lease is up! Our a-hole upstairs neighbors at the last place moved out after 6 months and it was heavenly!

I didn't realize it, but prior to living in our last apt., I had always lived in top floor apartments, so I had no idea how noisy it was to have people living above you! (And hopefully I wasn't too terribly noisy as an upstairs neighbor! ) Obviously it's no help to you now, but next time you move, definitely go for the top floor! I didn't even look at apartments that weren't on the top floor after the last place. We ended up just renting a row house because I couldn't handle the idea of loud neighbors again!

ETA is there any policy in your building about having rugs cover x % of the floor? That was the policy in a few place I rented in, although I doubt it was always followed. Rugs could definitely help deafen the sound of her heels clicking.

 

[jjc]

Sometimes it is an issue with the building--I used to live in an old apartment building with hardwood floors. Me sitting in my desk chair on a rug (literally just sitting, not rolling around, just sitting), apparently was loud enough for my downstairs neighbor to come up and ask me to quiet down on multiple occasions. I finally got rid of the chair and sat on a blow-up excercise ball. Even through I wasn't being unduly loud (or loud at all, really), the building amplified it to the point that it was bothersome. It's possible your upstairs neighbor really is just walking around and it sounds quiet in her apartment. Can you invite her down and have someone walk around in her apartment so she can see how loud it is for you?

I definitely think that's the case here. In fact, that's why I'm having such anxiety about speaking with her, because I know that what she's doing (except for walking around in heels) isn't loud to her, and it's the building. At least if I knew that she was doing something wrong, I could just calmly explain myself and why I thought she should change something. But right now, all I know is that I'm going bonkers, but I feel bad for saying/doing anything! Ugh. I'm definitely going to try to see if I can have her come in while someone walks around at her place. I hope that works! But I know that ultimately she's going to do what she wants to do. Fingers crossed that she'll be nice!

 

[jjc]

Ugh, I'm sorry. The last place I lived was a very noisy apartment building so I feel your pain. When the guy would take his shoes off it sounded like he was dropping them from 10 feet up instead of just taking them off and letting them fall on the ground. And banging on the floor/ceiling/wall sure helped at that place. It was either that or go get the security guard, because we were specifically told not to go to a noisy neighbor directly to tell them to STFU. (Guess it had gotten ugly when previous tenants did that.)

I think iLander's advice is great, as is letting her hear what it sounds like when someone walks around in heels above her. (As a side note, I find it bizarre that someone wears heels around in the house! Not comfy!) I hope the meeting goes well, and if it continues to be an issue I would talk to your landlord about moving to another unit in the same building, if possible. (Not sure how big of a building you're in.) Or see when this girl's lease is up! Our a-hole upstairs neighbors at the last place moved out after 6 months and it was heavenly!

I didn't realize it, but prior to living in our last apt., I had always lived in top floor apartments, so I had no idea how noisy it was to have people living above you! (And hopefully I wasn't too terribly noisy as an upstairs neighbor! ) Obviously it's no help to you now, but next time you move, definitely go for the top floor! I didn't even look at apartments that weren't on the top floor after the last place. We ended up just renting a row house because I couldn't handle the idea of loud neighbors again!

ETA is there any policy in your building about having rugs cover x % of the floor? That was the policy in a few place I rented in, although I doubt it was always followed. Rugs could definitely help deafen the sound of her heels clicking.

OMG yes! To me it sounds like she is re-arranging her furniture non-stop everyday, with heels on - and I really don't know what she could actually be doing that would be making that kind of noise. Maybe setting up obstacle courses for her dogs? That's the only thing I've come up with. (clearly I spend far too much time thinking about this) Seriously, this girl never just sits down! And I don't get the wearing of the heels all day long either - especially whilst dragging around armoires and the like haha. There is an apartment that's empty right now, maybe I'll check with the landlord about that - but you're right, only if it's on the top freaking floor!! The rug idea is a great one, I did used to live in a place where a percentage of the floor had to be covered by rugs. I'm just not exactly counting on the fact that this girl is going to bend over backward to help me out...