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Wow, I am surprised with the inclusions in diamonds!

Area57

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I am very new to knowing anything about diamonds. I only first realized their beauty recently when I was shopping for my girlfriend. For a present. She said she wanted diamonds. So I got curious and went and looked.

I had never looked at diamond jewelry before. I've never really even paid much attention to them on other people. So I go to some jewelry stores and I look, and almost do a cartoonish double take.....wow! These are diamonds? They are beautiful!

I had read a book in college about how they became popular and dominated the market for wedding rings and to be honest it sounded like a lot of manipulation. If they are so good, why would a cartel need to hold back and manipulate supply? So I had a little attitude about it all. In fact I preferred, and might still prefer, colored gems for this reason. They seem more honest.

But that isn't my point. My point is that I really was like seeing them for the first time and I really was impressed. I was not expecting such sparkle and brilliance. Pretty amazing actually. So now I love diamonds. If not love them, I like them. I am on my way.

But what surprised me the most is how badly included the less expensive ones are! I would never have guessed that people would buy some of these, especially not when you can get a nice sapphire for half the price or less.

So what I want to know, and the point of this thread is, how people accept that some of these diamonds are broken? For a $2000 1 carat diamond, you are not getting anything super nice. I'm not trying to be picky, heck, I'm barely making sense. But I just...I'm surprised at what is for sale on the low end and just how much you have to spend to get a nice diamond.

Here is a random example. The first one in the list. A carat, i2 for $2800.

https://www.pricescope.com/diamond/aaac58e69bfd2b662a48c2c9e9294c16

But look at the photo? It is nothing but inclusions! I have seen some with a bubble, and black specks, some that look like they've been smacked with a hammer, lol.

So what gives? I'm not trying to criticize anyone that has one, heck, I will take one if offered to me, but you really have to get up there in price, like, same price as a small car price, to get what I was expecting.

I guess when it comes down to it, it is all about expectations. On one hand I was impressed, they really are beautiful, and on the other I was disappointed, dissapointed to learn that you have to either get a really small stone, or pay out the wazoo to get one that is eye clean.

I'm sorry for such a long rambling, pointless post. I'm just storytelling I guess and would mostly like to know how the jewelry industry gets away with selling such messed up rocks for so much money?
 

Dancing Fire

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Area57|1445224970|3939742 said:
But what surprised me the most is how badly included the less expensive ones are! I would never have guessed that people would buy some of these, especially not when you can get a nice sapphire for half the price or less.
That is why they are less expensive.
 

kb1gra

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You remind me a bit of my husband. He has an idea of what something should cost and if it is more than that, it is "so overpriced!" The problem being that the price he set in head has nothing to do with silly things like market pricing.

This is a pretty disappointing way to live. I find people like this don't tend to think about longevity or long term value of an item, but instead see it as a sunk cost right now. That may not be a bad thing, but I feel it leads to missing out on things in the pursuit of some nebulous concept called "value."

If your intended wishes for a diamond, then she would rather have that 0.5 clear sparkly stone than a big honking sapphire (which, if you haven't checked natural sapphire prices and you don't like inclusions, may mean you are in for a surprise there to). If you could afford more but buy something cheaper solely because you think it's a ripoff, then choose your words carefully, because she will know how you really feel about it.

Story time: when we got engaged, my now husband had a good job, his own home, no debt. He took home and saved a great deal every month. When it came time to buy a ring, he did not spend a lot. Was my ring nice? Sure. But it wasn't a diamond ring and he made a big deal out of what a bad deal diamonds are, this was better, we saved so much money - which he spent on a sports car for himself. I was deeply hurt. It was not about the price of the ring at all, but about him basically telling me what I wanted was stupid and he knew better than to listen to me.

Now I have my diamond ring, but this was a sore spot that could have absolutely been avoided by setting price aside and spending some real money on something real that your wife will wear for the rest of her life - even if you think the price is dumb.

And of course if she'd love a sapphire just the same - then get that if it makes you more comfortable.
 

Niel

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You might be surprised about gemstone pricing too if you ever decide to go that route.

There's a head for every hat. If its not nice enough for you it might be nice enough for someone else. You can't make other rpeoples purchases for them, you should just worry about your own purchases and how you can spend your money on what you want.

And, after looking a little.... This costs less than the one you posted after a discount they offer
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.02-carat-k-color-si1-clarity-sku-566335
 

Area57

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I think you are missing my point a little. I'm not saying that the Asher cut posted isn't worth it, or that there aren't diamonds out there worth it. My point is there are a lot of diamond, chock full of cracks, bubbles, black specks, some that look like they are crushed that are still selling for silly prices.
 

Niel

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Area57|1445272267|3939863 said:
I think you are missing my point a little. I'm not saying that the Asher cut posted isn't worth it, or that there aren't diamonds out there worth it. My point is there are a lot of diamond, chock full of cracks, bubbles, black specks, some that look like they are crushed that are still selling for silly prices.


I get your point. Diamonds can be expensive even for sh*t ones.

Welcome to the world of jewelry ;-)
 

daintyG

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Some people would rather have a big diamond than a nice diamond. Some people don't know much about diamonds, don't pay attention to what they're getting, and just try to get the biggest diamond in their price point. That was what I did when I got engaged.

On Pricescope, you will find more people that appreciate quality diamonds and more people that carefully consider quality over quantity. Now that I've learned more about diamonds, I think differently about them. I have bought diamonds since joining Pricescope, and they are much better quality than my original ER diamond.
 

partgypsy

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I understand what you are saying. Well cut clean diamonds are amazing, shooting off light and fire. But, yeah they are selling in the stores dull included diamonds, including ones that look as you said hit by a hammer, or with black spots, and I would think, I'd rather have a colored semi precious gemstone than something that looks like that! I was one of those people who thought I didn't like diamonds. First because I was drawn to colored stones (I like color!) and two because diamonds I saw in my price range at the time (when we were looking for an engagement ring) did not look good to me. What a difference seeing an ideal cut diamond, in a decent clarity will do to change your mind!
I'm definitely in the camp, I'd rather have a nice smaller stone, than to choose something for its size and little else.
 

kenny

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daintyG|1445273323|3939869 said:
Some people would rather have a big diamond than a nice diamond.

Bingo.

I'll add that the 'all that matters is size' attitude would probably change if they saw a well-cut one eye clean diamond next to a poorly cut and heavily-included one.

Most people just do not know what an astonishing light show that diamond material is capable of ... if well cut and kept clean. :naughty:
 

diamondseeker2006

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The majority of people know nothing proven by the fact that many shop in chain jewelry stores with poor quality, overpriced diamonds.

I buy VS1-VS2 on clarity, excellent/ideal cut, and G-I color. It costs more, but it is absolutely worth it to me. I'd rather have no diamond than a poor one.

If you want nice diamonds, ask for help here. Most of us have found that we can get better quality diamonds for a better price through vendors we know about here.
 

Jambalaya

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I know what you mean, Area. I once saw a diamond solitaire pendant in Lord and Taylor, about 4mm, with a massive deep-black inclusion on the front that was about 2mm - so it covered about half the diamond. It looked like a great big blob of soot on the front. I was amazed that anybody would dream of buying such a thing - I'd rather have no jewelry than wear something like that - and I was also amazed that apparently these horrible-looking diamonds are worth cutting and setting. I suppose somebody must buy them. It's a mystery to me, too, that a diamond like this would be at all saleable.

I didn't spend much time considering it, though. It was such a depressing diamond that I just put it out of my mind, remembering that chain stores sell all kinds of crap, so why should jewelry be any different?
 

iluvshinythings

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When my ex and I were shopping for a ring, we stopped in several jewelry stores at the mall. All of the diamonds had visible inclusions and were priced much, much higher than a nicer quality diamond you could find online. So I think that most people never see a nice diamond or even know they exist. If diamonds were judged based on what I saw at the maul, I can see why someone would think they are a rip off.

I think if your lady asked for a diamond, you are taking a risk by buying her a colored gemstone. It might be cheaper, although you could look at my browser history and change your mind about the cost, but she's not going to be as happy.

PS - The same stores that sell ugly diamonds, will be happy to sell you an overpriced, over-treated gemstone.

PPS - I think sports cars/motorcycles are a huge rip off
 

ChristineRose

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Diamonds are actually not particularly rare. Sapphires are rarer for example. (Unless you count man-made sapphires, which are everywhere, including on the face of your wristwatch.) However there is an idea, for better or for worse, that you should buy a diamond when you get married. There's also a huge industry dedicated to selling you that diamond. High supply; high demand.

Colorless flawless diamonds are very much rarer than included diamonds. Lower supply; still high demand. That creates a sort of a cliff. If you can get to the top you can buy the VVS1 you really want; as you step off the cliff face you fall into more choices and much more bang for your buck. If works for some people.

There's a lot of things going on in a diamond purchase that lead to what may look like irrational choices. Some women feel intimidated if it's smaller than a friends; some want it to be small because large = tacky. Terms like "pure white," "flawless," "precision cut," "hearts and arrows," "stunning," "classic," "modern," are transferred from the diamond to the impending marriage, which isn't necessarily the best way to buy a stone, but you can make a good (great) case that a lot of marriages are better off without an rock the new couple couldn't afford anyhow. Really, the whole point of the jewelry industry advertising is to influence the choice in irrational directions.

I don't really see any of this as bad or wrong. Everyone spends money on something someone else thinks is dumb. I think you have really good eyesight by the way, and you are better for it. :naughty:
 

Area57

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Yep, I got lucky and went to Tiffani's and saw some high quality diamonds shortly after mall diamonds.,p. I'm not saying tifs isn't overpriced, I don't know, I will be doing my diamond shopping at recommend sites here. I like James Allen so far because of their good quality photos.

Anyway, after seeing some of the solitaire rings in the $15,000 range, I was left wondering who was buying the heavily included diamonds? We can't all afford too much for a diamond, but we can save and shop smart. And we can go small if we have too.

I would rather have a 1/4 carat vs over a 1 carat i2. I think those are priced about the same.

I am however girlfriend and fiancé less at this time, so I'm buying for me! Doesn't get better than that!

Once I've narrowed down exactly what I want I will let you guys know and you can point me in the right direction.
 

distracts

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The prices and desirability of colored stones are also market-driven, just like diamonds. It's kind of disingenuous to think they are different. Just because they didn't get a dedicated marketing campaign in the twentieth century doesn't mean they don't benefit from generations of marketing. (And for your information, the diamond industry is no longer a monopoly as it once was, so the prices are not manipulated as they once were.) At the end of the day, they're all just sparkly rocks, and the only thing that really gives them value is the fact that we want them.

As to why people want the ugly ones? Heck if I know. But people buy them, and I certainly know people who wear them happily. I'm surprised by it too, but I see it happen so I accept that it happens and is just a thing I don't understand. I'd rather have a nice engraved metal band or an artisan handmade silver ring if I only had several hundred dollars to spend on a ring.

How does the jewelry industry get away with it? People buy them. If no one bought them, no one would sell them. *shrug*
 

AdaBeta27

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Area57|1445272267|3939863 said:
I think you are missing my point a little. I'm not saying that the Asher cut posted isn't worth it, or that there aren't diamonds out there worth it. My point is there are a lot of diamond, chock full of cracks, bubbles, black specks, some that look like they are crushed that are still selling for silly prices.


Then don't pay the silly price. Go find something that is priced appropriately for what it is. :lol:

There's a hat for every head, and ... a butt for every seat. :lol: I quit needing 100% eye-clean in 2004. I have not regretted that decision. I have diamonds ranging from VVS1 down to a fantastic SI2 and a very good I1 that I can see the inclusions in if I look. The price of SI2 can sometimes literally be half the price of the equivalent stone in VS1. I have lost count of how many times I have picked a sparkling diamond out in a display case in a pawn shop only to find that it's full of highly visible inclusions at close range. Cut is very important. imo, absolute 100% eye-clean isn't. Lots of people worry themselves about having absolute perfection, when that's not something they will care about later after the novelty wears off.
 

kenny

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I wanna add 2 points to a discussion about preference for eye-clean.

Sometimes you can't even find an eye-clean one, and sometimes it's eye-clean to you but not to others.

Both were the case with my diamond, a rare cut.
Only around 25 Octavias have ever been cut, and I don't think I've ever seen more than 7 for sale.
Like every shopper I had my 4-C comfort zones, but only one Octavia was a good fit for almost everything.
It just had one yucky inclusion that really bothered me.

I'm an eye-clean guy who wants, and doesn't mind paying for VS and even VVS, but this VS2 had one nasty black booger ... 3:00 in pic.
In person I could not see it with my old eyes even wearing my glasses, but younger people can spot it.
So, I 'had' to buy what I would not have bought if a better fit was available.
People shopping for rounds, the most abundant shape, are lucky.

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