Would you like to try allowing discussion of religion on HO?

[kenny]

Ella, hope you don't mind this thread/poll.
I am not challenging admin or policies, but only responding to your recent post (below) in which you bring up the possibility of trying a new policy on this.
If this thread is not okay, please delete it and accept my apologies.

Below is a quote from Ella's post in this recent thread in which she hinted at the possibility of a policy change on discussion of religion on PS.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/question-re-agbfs-thread-about-the-catholic-boys.218812/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/question-re-agbfs-thread-about-the-catholic-boys.218812/[/URL]

Quote
"I would be willing to speak to Andrey about trying out allowing discussion of religion, but if we did that and there were insulting or snotty posts about someone's points of view or religion, there would also be a lot more time outs. If that is something y'all would like to try, I can speak with him.

It would be a zero tolerance policy. You make a snarky or rude post to someone, and you get a time out, probably one of a month or more. Our judgement call on what constitutes rude. If history is any indicator, there would be many, many time outs and offended people. Which is why we decided it was not worth it before."
End of Quote.

So, would you try allowing discussion of religion on Hangout, subject of course to the above prohibition on personal insults?

 

[Jambalaya]

Re: Do you support allowing discussion of religion on Hangou

I might as well answer now, since our community just had a fire alarm and all the neighbors have seen me in my mismatched pajamas and splendid new purple fluffy robe. Six fire trucks! As if I'm going to sleep now, despite having taken melatonin.

No, I don't think I do support the discussion of religion. The reason is for the things Ella mentioned - lots of upset, time-outs, etc etc. The very fact that many people reported the previous discussion just now rather proves her point.

From a personal point of view, it's a pity for me, because some really weird things have happened since I lost family members, things that have convinced me that something is out there - or up there - but it's just too touchy a topic. I think people would end up getting very, very upset. So I voted no.

 

[sonnyjane]

Re: Would you like to try allowing discussion of religion on

No. I'm not worried about me getting offended, but everyone has different thresholds. Something I might consider a fact, some may consider an opinion and vice versa. With moderators left to decide, I think people will be penalized even when they meant no harm. This will lead to both self-censorship and heavy censorship from mods which will in turn just lead to the topic being banned again.

I don't doubt that we are adults that can have polite, intelligent conversations about religion, but doing so on a message board leaves way too much room for misinterpretation.

 

[kenny]

Re: Would you like to try allowing discussion of religion on

IMO religion is one of the most interesting and fascinating subjects.
Not so much the theologies of religions themselves, but that (and why) all peoples in all places during all times have had them ... lots and lots of them.
The social, cultural, political even legal impact of religions is huge.
I think I read somewhere that even our brains are physically wired for them.
How can you NOT talk about it?

Why some people subscribe to them but others not is, to me, riveting.
I hope we get the green light.

Sure, it would take time for PS to adjust.
Some who can't tolerate other viewpoints would struggle.
But I'll bet many others will find Hangout a much more interesting place.

Just imagine, being free to spread 'the good news', whatever you feel that is.
I think the strain on Ella would eventually be lower.
Freedom of expression, just no personal insults.

I'd like Hangout to have more interesting content.

 

[AGBF]

Re: Would you like to try allowing discussion of religion on

I don't know, kenny. I would have thought my answer would have been a resounding, "yes". But I just saw a thread that I started get closed. You and I cannot communicate and remain civil sometimes. I just felt I had to apologize to another poster about a comment I made in a thread about a political topic. Communication here will have to be very clear if we start to discuss religion and I do not know if everyone on Pricescope is capable of writing with the precision and clarity necessary for a good discussion.

Let me explain what I mean: even if I am a good writer and am clear when I write my ideas, but someone else writes a response that could mean half a dozen other things and doesn't come back on-line to explain, some remark can be-or appear-inflammatory. I guess I feel that if we are to discuss religion, there should be some guidelines. Not that I want to set them!

 

[jordyonbass]

Re: Would you like to try allowing discussion of religion on

I'm fine with it as I usually try my best to side-step it, however the issue is that it doesn't matter just what I think or do - the entire collective matters. Some people find the topic just too tender to discuss as they're either overly-passionate or overly-sensitive, if not both (and that's not just theists, that goes for atheists as well).

PS is probably better off as a secular forum to be honest, even if people don't want it to be. Look at when people ask for 'PS dust' for some kind of up-coming event or personal issue etc. It's a secular way of asking for support from people and whether the supporting party chooses to verbally wish them the best, privately pray for the person or actually offer some kind of assistance or advice away from the forum - that is how they give their 'dust' and it is appreciated regardless.

 

[missy]

Re: Would you like to try allowing discussion of religion on

I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this and thanks to Kenny for starting this thread. It is a double edged sword no doubt. I agree with Deb and Jordy and Sonnyjane and will add some of my other thoughts.

I like that we can discuss important topics here. For the most part PS has some very smart, knowledgeable and kind generous people and it is very nice to share ideas,thoughts and feelings and be able to discuss them. Some PSers are too sensitive with the hot topic issues so that is a concern. They hit the report concern button where personally I don't feel it is warranted and that hurts/ends any chance of a good discussion. That is a problem. Why can't they just walk away/move on from the thread. That is what I don't get. If it offends them why stay and read it?

Ultimately I wish we could be free to discuss every subject on PS in Hangout and for anyone who is offended by a specific topic I wish they would just skip that topic or better yet discuss it calmly and share their thoughts as to why they disagree. That is the way we can all learn and grow IMO. It would truly be boring if we all agreed with everyone all the time!

Adding that if we are able to discuss religion it would be a great addition however I don't think people should be so easily banned unless they are intentionally stirring the pot and trying to offend others. And if someone is offended instead of reporting it they should share why they are offended and hopefully work it out with the original person who offended them rather than running to "momma and poppa". Behave like the adults we all are. And then of course if the person shows they are intentionally trying to offend continues to be offensive then OK banning should ensue. But I don't think that they should be automatically banned.

 

[MarionC]

Re: Would you like to try allowing discussion of religion on

I too thought yes at first. But now wonder if it would just open a can of worms. When I think of trying to discuss religion with close friends?...about as friendly as politics.
However, we could give it a try. Perhaps do a two-week thread and see what it looks like? I do like the idea of discussing spirituality rather than organized religion, but that's just me.

 

[chrono]

Re: Would you like to try allowing discussion of religion on

I don't think it will work on PS, as much as I would love such a discussion.

 

[momhappy]

Re: Would you like to try allowing discussion of religion on

Personally, I would not like to discuss religion here. I consider it one of those topics that is just far too heavy for this type of venue. It's not that we aren't adults and can't have mature discussions, but dialogue is different on an online forum and many of us have seen how quickly is can get nasty. I'd prefer not so see it here, but I don't have strong feelings one way or the other because I can always pick and choose which threads I would like to participate in.

 

[hay joe]

Re: Would you like to try allowing discussion of religion on

Too many people here love to hate. They study religions they dislike just to improve their ability to spread it. So my answer is yes. Lets give them a chance to see love.

 

[missy]

Re: Would you like to try allowing discussion of religion on

Too many people here love to hate. They study religions they dislike just to improve their ability to spread it. So my answer is yes. Lets give them a chance to see love.

Exactly. Let's give it a chance and see if we can learn from each other and grow spiritually and grow as individuals. It's important in life to be open to new experiences and to realize maybe we don't know it all. Also very important to learn how to get along with others even when we don't agree. It's OK to disagree. In fact I have many friends with whom I don't share political and religious views and yet we are still good friends. I would have missed out on having them in my lives if we had to agree on everything.

 

[AGBF]

Re: Would you like to try allowing discussion of religion on

I think that what missy said above is brilliant. I am not going to quote it since the entire post is available to read just inches above.

Since Ella had already said that people would be quickly given times-out, I didn't cut through to the essence of the problem the way missy did; I just accepted the status quo. I think missy has it right, however. I do not think that giving a time-out instantly for every comment perceived as rude is the way to go in treating the problem of Pricescopers not being able to handle a discussion. I am not sure where the boundaries should lie, however.

 

[AGBF]

Re: Would you like to try allowing discussion of religion on

missy just sneaked in another post . I was referring to her first one when I posted above.

 

[packrat]

Re: Would you like to try allowing discussion of religion on

I am like Kenny, I love to talk about religion. I was on a Christianity board for a while several years ago b/c I had followed (not in a stalky way tho, promise) a poster on the Shark board I was on. That poster was brilliant, and was an atheist/agnostic. We had a lot of conversations about religion and I very much enjoyed his thoughts on everything. So, I followed him over there and it was nice to have someone to talk to about *my* questions/thoughts/observations etc. But, there was a lot of dissension on the board b/c adults could *not* discuss in a "nice" manner.

I would *like* to be able to talk about religion. However, I don't know if we *can* here. We can't seem to discuss anything w/out snark.

 

[packrat]

Re: Would you like to try allowing discussion of religion on

I wanted to add...I'm not easily offended. It takes a LOT to offend me or upset me. There have been numerous times I've done reading some posts in threads and then again when I see who wrote it. I would like to see some sort of...I don't know, some sort of discussion about what could be allowed, or if something is reported, I think we should be able to be told what it is, and I'd like to know *why*. Bc at some point I do feel like there are people who are offended at the drop of the hat. So I'd like to know why some things are offensive, to discuss as a whole. If I am offended by something, I'd report it and I'd say why I reported it. "It's offensive to me that so and so said I better watch out b/c he was going to find my house, rape me and kill my children in front of me" (Which has been said to me before) b/c I didn't agree w/their thoughts. versus "you know what, I don't agree w/that and here's why 1. 2. 3..." , and I've had my posts on other boards reported for exactly that as well. There's one that is justifiable and there's one that is really incredibly over the top and from a person who is in need of a safe room, you know?

 

[redwood66]

Re: Would you like to try allowing discussion of religion on

Well...

I welcome the discussion because I, for one, like to grow as a person, so the opportunity to hear others viewpoints from all around the world is enlightening. However, being one of the few pro-gun people here on PS I have felt the "bashing" that others speak of from the snarky comments on those threads. I do not report people as I have a thick skin - kinda had to for all those years. You all must realize this topic would be even more difficult to maintain civility.

 

[Arcadian]

Re: Would you like to try allowing discussion of religion on

I personally have no issues with religion, having existed with all types and explored them out of pure curiosity.

But here? HA! no. It wouldn't work. too many would get their shorts in a bunch , and frankly I don't think real conversation could ever happen because it would include too much tip toeing around each other.

Then you have those that are intolerant of any such talk and instead of skipping such threads, would report them needlessly. Case in Point; the thread that just got closed. That wasn't really about religion but current events!

There's lots of threads I don't read, on purpose I may add, because frankly I'm almost sure the contents would have me saying something that would get me put on the naughty list.

Better to leave well enough alone where religion is concerned.

 

[AGBF]

Re: Would you like to try allowing discussion of religion on

I am like Kenny, I love to talk about religion.

...​

I would *like* to be able to talk about religion. However, I don't know if we *can* here. We can't seem to discuss anything w/out snark.

I am like this, too, packrat. But it is the venue-it being Pricescope-that gives me pause. I have been able to discuss religion successfully with everyone with whom I attempted to discuss it. I do not recall a single quarrel. But on-line, I can foresee being misunderstood instantly.

My parents had a mixed marriage. When I was a child, my mother took a tour of all the Protestant churches in our town with me in tow, searching for the one with in which she felt most comfortable. For a while I went to The First Congregational Church Sunday School. My parents settled on the Unitarian-Universalist Church. My brother and I were raised in that. My mother taught a Sunday School class called, "The Church Across The Street" that introduced children to other religions since Uni-Unis are very open people. The year that the children study that they visit houses of worship from many other religions. Then during the Vietnam War my parents became members of The Society of Friends (Quakers) and I read "Faith and Practice" and attended some Quaker meetings with them.
I married an Italian Sephardic Jew who had family in Israel. My brother married an Catholic, American girl of German-Italian-Irish background and raised his children Catholic. Now one of his Catholic daughters is married to a black Muslim man from Senegal. And some older members of my family still celebrate Christmas on my mother's birthday: January 7, which is Christmas in the church in which she grew up.

Between my personal background and my training to become a historian (with teaching high school history done on the side), how could I not become interested in religion?

 

[arkieb1]

Re: Would you like to try allowing discussion of religion on

Yes but only if we can do it without attacking anyone personally, without pile ons and without people taking offence (which they seem to do on here) about general observations not specifically aimed at one person....

 

[House Cat]

Re: Would you like to try allowing discussion of religion on

I would be OK with it as long as people respected other's beliefs without wavering. I have seen both sides step all over each other with W.A.R. (we are right) and that is when the entire discussion breaks down.

Honestly, I voted no. I have very little faith that any discussions pertaining to religion will stay fascinating or productive. I think people with overzealous personalities will pull the topics down the same road they've always gone, all in the name of "I have a right to share my opinion too!"

 

[purplesparklies]

Re: Would you like to try allowing discussion of religion on

In a perfect world we could discuss respectfully. This is not a perfect world. Even those who truly think they post thoughtfully and respectfully fail to do so at times.

For example, in the original thread regarding the recent news article about the children who were abused, individuals posted comments to the effect of it being awe inspiring that anyone believes or follows Catholic doctrine as well as a mention that one's Catholic family member was intelligent in so many other ways. Those statements are not statements made by people looking to discuss and grow in knowledge or understanding. Those statements are judgmental and disrespectful. Personally, I read over them and move on as I refuse to engage with individuals who are simply looking for an opportunity to cast dispersions. I would welcome the opportunity to have respectful discourse but I do not think it would be a productive conversation here. I do not understand the beliefs or positions of many but I would never assume that those beliefs are based in ignorance. I happen to believe that two people can have differing opinions without one being wrong or uninformed or unintelligent.

I am using a mobile device so I don't know how to see what was reported but it does not surprise me to learn that reports were made.

 

[momhappy]

Re: Would you like to try allowing discussion of religion on

The problem is that you don't have to personally attack someone in order for someone to feel personally attacked. Simply stating an opinion can feel like a personal attack sometimes....It's not necessarily about how things are posted - it's also about how they are perceived, so again, no, I don't see religious discussions going well here. I actually like coming to forums where discussions aren't too heavy. If I want to talk about sensitive subjects (like religion), then there are plenty of other forums out there that I could join.

 

[OreoRosies86]

Re: Would you like to try allowing discussion of religion on

Eh.

I can take it or leave it. Knowing I have a major axe to grind with faith and religion makes it difficult to not let anger seep into my responses on such threads. I was raised in a religious home and subjected to years of it in church, found it very damaging. Given that there is already enough for me to love about Pricescope and the people here, I'd rather not test my willpower in not participating.

 

[Karl_K]

Re: Would you like to try allowing discussion of religion on

Pricescope is a diamond forum you know those fun sparky things we all enjoy.
People helping people is what it it is about. (while making a few bucks doing so for the owners and pay the bills for the site by adds )
The other sections were formed by user requests over the years to give people more to do here while they are hanging around talking about diamonds.

It is not a debate religion forum and imho should not be debate politics either.
They divide people, while PS is about people from all over the world coming together to talk about sparkly things.
Frankly politics in hangout is already too much for me and I find myself reading it much less often.

 

[momhappy]

Re: Would you like to try allowing discussion of religion on

^I agree. I don't like discussing politics here either (although, I admit to being drawn into a few discussions before realizing the error of my ways ). Given that this is primarily a jewelry forum, I'd prefer to see lighter topics in general, but like I said, I can always pick and choose which threads I'd like to participate in.

 

[maccers]

Re: Would you like to try allowing discussion of religion on

IMO religion is one of the most interesting and fascinating subjects.
Not so much the theologies of religions themselves, but that (and why) all peoples in all places during all times have had them ... lots and lots of them.
The social, cultural, political even legal impact of religions is huge.
I think I read somewhere that even our brains are physically wired for them.
How can you NOT talk about it?

Why some people subscribe to them but others not is, to me, riveting.
I hope we get the green light.
.

I agree with what you wrote, I feel very similarly. However, for many, discussing religion in this way (from the outside,secular, as though it's something to be studied) could be offensive, imo.

 

[VRBeauty]

Re: Would you like to try allowing discussion of religion on

I would like a place to talk about religion but I'm not sure PS is that place. I suspect a site or forum dedicated to religion and its role in for our lives or society as a whole would probably be better. Religion is a topic that can have so many branches or, in internet speak, sub-topics, that it could easily come to dominate Hangout, which IMHO would not be a good thing. Plus I'm guessing that the discussion would come with its own nuances and might need its own set of rules to ensure that all could participate freely and without overt or subtle harassment. So - I voted no. Thank you though Kenny for raising the question - and BTW I found your telling of your religious experiences fascinating and would love to hear more about it someday. Maybe if the admins hear your plea I'll be able to do that someday!

But you've got me to wondering: is there a forum out there that provides space for thoughtful and (mostly*) respectful discussions of religion and the non- pr anti-religious beliefs, and how those beliefs impact individuals and society?

* mostly because I am somewhat of a realist!

 

[kenny]

Re: Would you like to try allowing discussion of religion on

I abhor those university safe houses where delicate special snowflakes don't have to hear/see anything except for baskets of fluffy kittens.

It sounds like many want HO to be one of these insulated safe houses.

People vary ... but we just can't take it.
Other people being different shouldn't knock us off our bicycles, but it does.
Why do we need everyone to be just like us?

... and I'm just just pointing a finger; I'm guilty too.

What has happend to us?
How did we get this way?

 

[AGBF]

Re: Would you like to try allowing discussion of religion on

In a perfect world we could discuss respectfully. This is not a perfect world. Even those who truly think they post thoughtfully and respectfully fail to do so at times.

For example, in the original thread regarding the recent news article about the children who were abused, individuals posted comments to the effect of it being awe inspiring that anyone believes or follows Catholic doctrine as well as a mention that one's Catholic family member was intelligent in so many other ways. Those statements are not statements made by people looking to discuss and grow in knowledge or understanding. Those statements are judgmental and disrespectful. Personally, I read over them and move on as I refuse to engage with individuals who are simply looking for an opportunity to cast dispersions. I would welcome the opportunity to have respectful discourse but I do not think it would be a productive conversation here. I do not understand the beliefs or positions of many but I would never assume that those beliefs are based in ignorance. I happen to believe that two people can have differing opinions without one being wrong or uninformed or unintelligent.

I agree that some general comments were made by people against a specific faith. Diamondseeker pointed out that she, also, saw this when she read through the thread (which was after Ella had closed it).

I agree that being respectful is the best course.

If people are, sometimes, less than respectful (and who among us does not sometimes slip?), there may be recourse for it, though. As missy pointed out, people who want to discuss religion can engage in these discussions. And those people can clear the air among themselves by pointing out to each other that comments that were made were disrespectful and why. Perhaps the first thing anyone would have to do before being able to join a forum for the discussion of religion would be to sign a pledge to consider the feelings of every other poster and if addressed by another poster with a concern, not to blow off that poster's concern about feeling disparaged. Or something of the like.

I don't want to make the rules, but I think maybe a group of thoughtful Pricescopers could come up with a set and bring them back to Hangout for discussion.