Would you forgive your SO cheating on you.

[mtrb]

nd there is the rub... Men are from Mars, and women are from Venus.

Sex is entirely seperate from love for most guys. Most of us love our wives and learn how to incorporate this into sex for the benefit of our partner, but it is not inherently natural for most men. That is why men slip. I think with women the issues with the marriage go much deeper and that is when a woman slips.

Then if you believe this - you would understand the hurt inflicted on your wife. And, for that reason, keep the vow. Correct?[/quote]


Absolutely. I love my wife, and I made that vow. In my experience women feel sexually attracted when they are cherished, supported and loved…that also makes them feel sexy.
Most men do not require such things to be sexually attracted, we are visual creatures–hence the popularity of ****.ography...lol. . Men are hardwired animalistically for procreation, as are most male animals.
In fact did you know there are statistics out there that say 95% of animals on this planet are non-monogamist.. "Love" goes beyond animal instinct however…we are human. Think about all the negative “dog”/”pig” stereotypes out there about men... if they weren't at least partial truths to this.. then we wouldn't have stereotypes at all. My opinion and experiences indicate that this is probably just the animalistic side of humans.
Some people want to close those doors however and not consider this..but, all the signs point in that direction. It doesn't mean men are bad or it is wrong to have those feelings. Its not and I don’t believe a man should apologize for those feeling..its just something we have to understand as human. To make a vow and break it however, is an entirely different. Women are different and this bond deserves to be cherished. It is a promise.

My one piece of advice to men out there is.. if you never want your wife to cheat on you.. ALWAYS continue to court her like when you were dating. To make a woman feel sexy by courting her..taking her on dates..and lighting a candle here or there..this is probably the best way to satisfy and deter her from cheating…because that is what keeps her interested and feeling special!

Men… remember your promise…and women.. it helps if you can understand the “dirty” side of your man and give him that once in a while. Men are pigs and dogs..lol.

 

[poptart]

Another question is, at what point do you consider your spouse to be cheating? Is it JUST after sexual intercourse, or are there other things that could be going on that you would consider cheating as well?

ETA: I guess I should answer my own question as well. I consider cheating both emotional and physical infidelity. I am not sure which is worse though.

*M*

 

[IrishAngel7982]

Date: 1/16/2007 6:08:55 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 1/16/2007 5:53:13 PM
Author: Mara
here''s a question that is kind of interesting for me.

for those who say ''absolutely it''s a deal breaker, no gray lines''....are you married or engaged or just dating?

for those who say ''it depends on the scenario or it''s gray lines or i''m not sure etc'' ....same thing?

and do you have kids?

i honestly think that it''s easier to say ''it''s a deal breaker'' if you are not married to someone and don''t have kids. but i tend to see more people (in my daily life too) who have more ''shades of gray'' attitudes after getting married and being with that person for years and/or also having kids.

OK, I''ll play...

There is a shade of gray for me...a very dark dark charcoal grey and black. That''s about it. And that dark gray is only because I don''t know what I would really do.

Yes, married, no kids. I am not sure if kids would change anything for me. Kids are very much in tune to things when something is wrong, and growing up in a family where I could tell my mom and dad would be better off without each other, I am not sure I want to do that to my kids.

Yes, people can make all sorts of mistakes in a marriage. I think I could bounce back from most of them. I''m just being very honest when I say I don''t thnk I could bounce back from cheating. The emotional betrayal would rock my core and seriously damage the foundation of our relationship. The myriad of gut wrenching feelings I have just THINKING about it are not there when I think of other ''mistakes''....like alcohol abuse, or gambling your savings away, or gosh...what else is bad...emotional neglect? I am not saying these things aren''t horrible, but I don''t feel that punch in the gut like I do with cheating. The only other thing that would make the hair on the back of my neck rise is domestic violence.

I agree TG. Cheating would be a betrayal so horrible for me that I probably couldn''t ever fully recover from it. It would translate as him not respecting me and our relationship...a direct blow...which leads me to question what would really happen if children were in the picture...because well-adjusted children of separated parents do so much better than parents who stay together ''for the children.''

 

[E B]

I think it's interesting that people are implying they'd possibly stay together through cheating for the kids. As a child of divorced parents, I can tell you the two being divorced was FAR less traumatizing than what I would have lived with had they been together. (Neither of them cheated, it was just an unhappy marriage they jumped into far too soon.)

For me, I'd have such anger toward my husband that, for the health of my kids, I'd absolutely have to leave him. I wouldn't want them exposed to that constant unhappiness.

ETA: IrishAngel, were you reading my mind?

 

[IrishAngel7982]

Haha EBree we were posting at the same time...that's exactly the point I was trying to make!!!

EBree

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 1/16/2007 6:07:53 PM
Author: Gypsy

Date: 1/16/2007 5:55:48 PM
Author: KristyDarling
I agree, TG. Cheating is ALWAYS conscious choice. If you''re ''not yourself'' and you''ve cheated, then you must have put your ''not self'' into a tempting situation where cheating was likely to occur, i.e. drunk at a convention out of town with horny coworkers and colleagues. If you are legally sane, there is ALWAYS a choice whether to cheat or not. Even if you''re stone cold drunk I would think that you would have the wherewithal to realize that you''re doing something very, very wrong. If not, then you''re probably not actually conscious...you''re probably in an alcoholic coma!

I have to disagree. I''ve been diagnosed with severe depression and anxiety issues... trust me, there are plenty of times when I ''wasn''t myself'' and I didn''t put myself into that situation in anyway. I was in a car accident. A bad one, and that was the result. It affected every aspect of my life and trust me there were times I would considered doing things I would normally never do to either FEEL SOMETHING or to FEEL NOTHING that I absolutely would not do when I am well, ''me.'' Things happen, that are the ''worse'' of life... and those things make us act like something other than ourselves. I know people who have been laid off of very good, lucrative jobs (through no fault of their own), or lost money in the stock market (enron, 9/11) who were like totally different people after, than before. These are shades of grey.

ETA: These aren''t excuses. All I am saying is that both chemically/physiologically, and psychologically people react in completely different ways to things. Sometimes something that has no real impact on one person... has a completely different impact on another.

Gypsy, I am sorry to hear about all this. Hopefully you are better now.

It may be your wording, but you said you would "consider doing things" you "would normally never do to either feel something something or feel nothing." To say you would CONSIDER it, to me means it is still a choice.

 

[Mara]

Date: 1/16/2007 6:16:58 PM
Author: EBree
I think it's interesting that people are implying they'd possibly stay together through cheating for the kids.

Actually that's not what I think. I just had this convo with my coworker...I was saying that you can't stay together 'for the kids'. But if you still have serious love between you two and a desire to stay together and potentially work at it to make it work, then I think kids can enter into the picture as a another reason WHY to try...obviously if there is no love lost between either of you and you two hate each other or one person is so bitter they can't get over it...then definitely don't stay together FOR the kids. But I have seen familes with kids where someone made a mistake and they worked at it and part of it was the kids and the fact that their family was so important to them, but most of it was the love they felt for each other.

 

[poptart]

Date: 1/16/2007 6:12:36 PM
Author: mtrb

Date: 1/16/2007 4:43:05 PM
Author: fire&ice

Date: 1/16/2007 4:31:50 PM

Author: mtrb

Date: 1/16/2007 4:23:42 PM

Author: KristyDarling

Well, call me an unforgiving wench but it''s still a dealbreaker for me. If he doesn''t love and respect me enough to keep it in his pants, then that means there is something very wrong with the relationship. I suppose I *might* consider a reconciliation with the help of a marriage counselor, especially since we have kids and I''d really want to keep the family together if at all possible...but knowing the way I am, the damage done might be too great for me to ever fully recover from the hurt. Trust has flown out the window. For me, any extramarital sex -- regardless of how emotionally meaningless it might''ve been -- is a deliberate act and not a ''momentary insanity'' kind of mistake. That part of our relationship is so precious to me that I could never stomach the idea of him sharing that with someone else, even if he said it didn''t mean anything. It would shatter my heart to pieces.

And there is the rub... Men are from Mars, and women are from Venus.

Sex is entirely seperate from love for most guys. Most of us love our wives and learn how to incorporate this into sex for the benefit of our partner, but it is not inherently natural for most men. That is why men slip. I think with women the issues with the marriage go much deeper and that is when a woman slips.

Then if you believe this - you would understand the hurt inflicted on your wife. And, for that reason, keep the vow. Correct?

Absolutely. I love my wife, and I made that vow. In my experience women feel sexually attracted when they are cherished, supported and loved…that also makes them feel sexy.
Most men do not require such things to be sexually attracted, we are visual creatures–hence the popularity of ****.ography...lol. . Men are hardwired animalistically for procreation, as are most male animals.
In fact did you know there are statistics out there that say 95% of animals on this planet are non-monogamist.. ''Love'' goes beyond animal instinct however…we are human. Think about all the negative “dog”/”pig” stereotypes out there about men... if they weren''t at least partial truths to this.. then we wouldn''t have stereotypes at all. My opinion and experiences indicate that this is probably just the animalistic side of humans.
Some people want to close those doors however and not consider this..but, all the signs point in that direction. It doesn''t mean men are bad or it is wrong to have those feelings. Its not and I don’t believe a man should apologize for those feeling..its just something we have to understand as human. To make a vow and break it however, is an entirely different. Women are different and this bond deserves to be cherished. It is a promise.

My one piece of advice to men out there is.. if you never want your wife to cheat on you.. ALWAYS continue to court her like when you were dating. To make a woman feel sexy by courting her..taking her on dates..and lighting a candle here or there..this is probably the best way to satisfy and deter her from cheating…because that is what keeps her interested and feeling special!

Men… remember your promise…and women.. it helps if you can understand the “dirty” side of your man and give him that once in a while. Men need change.

I just don''t agree MTRB. There are MANY women out there who cheat on their SO because they want sex. Women are not these sexually remote beings that don''t think sexual thoughts or have desires. Women aren''t hardwired to be monogomous either. In fact, I would venture to say many women think about sex about as often as men do. It''s just that this social idea of men wanting to ''spread their seed'' or ''being hardwired for sex'' is accepted by men and women alike. As much as genetics plays a role in personality, I think that environment has a huge role, too. If you are bombarded with the idea that ''men are just like that'' and ''women are just like this'' then you begin to believe it.

Likewise, a woman does not just feel sexy because she is loved and cherished. Many women feel sexy because we have a mirror and damn we look good! I guess what I am trying to get at is that men and women are not AS different as some people make them out to be... at least not in the sexual department.

*M*

 

[E B]

Mara- I wasn't pointing a finger at you with the "for the kids" observation, I was just commenting on it as, IMO, a common thought when two parents with kids are unhappy. As if getting a divorce will scar the kids for life over fighting constantly.

Of course, if two people still love each other and are willing to forgive, then they should absolutely try to work it out. Me? I know I couldn't. Or, as TG said (because we can't ever COMPLETELY predict a choice we'd make in the future), I'm in the deep, charcoal gray category.

 

[angel_nieves]

Egad what a topic. Well I know what my answer. I recently divorced my husband of five years over this topic. Also why I changed my screen name from angel_nieves to Macie.
His mother diagnosed with renal cell carcinoma four months ago, and a prognoses of only eight months to live. I quite working at the hospital and took her to Miami two days a weeks for her doctor visits and stayed at home with her the rest of the time. I even shaved my head when she lost her hair. During this time one of his old girlfriends started coming around

asking how was his mom and could she do anything for the family. Well come to find out he started a relationship with her, I ended up finding out about the whole thing when I came across some emails.
I thought I could work though it for his mom but I could not. I still take care of his mom and am very close with the family. Oh however I got my revenge I told the ex girlfriend’s then fiancé about their little tryst and he left her

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 1/16/2007 6:12:36 PM
Author: mtrb


Absolutely. I love my wife, and I made that vow. In my experience women feel sexually attracted when they are cherished, supported and loved…that also makes them feel sexy.
Most men do not require such things to be sexually attracted, we are visual creatures–hence the popularity of ****.ography...lol. . Men are hardwired animalistically for procreation, as are most male animals.
In fact did you know there are statistics out there that say 95% of animals on this planet are non-monogamist.. ''Love'' goes beyond animal instinct however…we are human. Think about all the negative “dog”/”pig” stereotypes out there about men... if they weren''t at least partial truths to this.. then we wouldn''t have stereotypes at all. My opinion and experiences indicate that this is probably just the animalistic side of humans.
Some people want to close those doors however and not consider this..but, all the signs point in that direction. It doesn''t mean men are bad or it is wrong to have those feelings. Its not and I don’t believe a man should apologize for those feeling..its just something we have to understand as human. To make a vow and break it however, is an entirely different. Women are different and this bond deserves to be cherished. It is a promise.

My one piece of advice to men out there is.. if you never want your wife to cheat on you.. ALWAYS continue to court her like when you were dating. To make a woman feel sexy by courting her..taking her on dates..and lighting a candle here or there..this is probably the best way to satisfy and deter her from cheating…because that is what keeps her interested and feeling special!

Men… remember your promise…and women.. it helps if you can understand the “dirty” side of your man and give him that once in a while. Men need change.

Okay. Here''s my issue with what you just wrote. You stated that in 95% of species males are NOT monogomous. That means that 5% are. Those 5% should not, in my opinion, use the 95% as an excuse to stray outside the norm of their species. I don''t think that... I don''t know.. Penguins look at gorillas and say "hey" ... He gets to do it, why don''t I? If you cheat, don''t justify it by using biology. It doesn''t wash for me. That 5% are monogomous. If one penguin choses to ignore that, its not because of something external, like a gorilla, its because of something within himself. That''s all I''m saying.

As you said, love is outside of human instinct (arguable, but not the point) the point is that WE do love. A betrayal of that love being overrulled by biology doesn''t wash. We love and we think and we are concious of our own existance... that sets us, humans, apart from animals. That being the case... why justify a BETRAYAL of that love with a bogus '' biology made me do it'' arguement? You made you do it. Or, something like... a chemical imbalance (really biology problems)... substance abuse... MADE you do it. Either way...it wasn''t that poor gorilla.

 

[onedrop]

I''ll preface my opinion by saying that I am not married yet and don''t have kids, but I have the shades of gray outlook on the cheating situation. Years ago I definitely would have said that if my husband ever cheated I''d leave him no matter what. Now, I am more likely to consider the totality of the situation. If it were a one time thing I''d try to work through it because like Mara said and some others said, cheating for me is one of those *worse* scenarios. Of course I''d feel angry, hurt, betrayed, all of that, but still I''d try to work through it together. However, I think I''d be more inclined to leave and consider the cheating a deal breaker, if it were a repeated circumstance. This goes back to the issue of cheating being controllable. To me you just need to come to a point where you take responsibility for your actions and repeated cheating is just selfish,dangerous and completely disrespectful of the vows taken.

And what are we considering cheating??? I have a good friend going through a situation with her husband of one year who carries on *emotional* relationships with other women. I suppose this means that he doesn''t actually commit a physical act but maintains communications with women w/o his wife''s knowledge (until she catches him via text messaging or some other electronic means) and engages in conversation that suggests that something *could* happen. For me that is just as bad as the physical act.

 

[KristyDarling]

Date: 1/16/2007 6:25:29 PM
Author: Macie
Egad what a topic. Well I know what my answer. I recently divorced my husband of five years over this topic. Also why I changed my screen name from angel_nieves to Macie.

His mother diagnosed with renal cell carcinoma four months ago, and a prognoses of only eight months to live. I quite working at the hospital and took her to Miami two days a weeks for her doctor visits and stayed at home with her the rest of the time. I even shaved my head when she lost her hair. During this time one of his old girlfriends started coming around

asking how was his mom and could she do anything for the family. Well come to find out he started a relationship with her, I ended up finding out about the whole thing when I came across some emails.

I thought I could work though it for his mom but I could not. I still take care of his mom and am very close with the family. Oh however I got my revenge I told the ex girlfriend’s then fiancé about their little tryst and he left her

Oh my, I''m so sorry to hear about this! And bless your heart for sticking by your ex-MIL''s side when she needed you most. I hope she is pain-free and resting comfortably during this difficult time. And you go, girl, for doing what''s right for yourself and moving on. What a shameless jerk to be messing around om you during a time like this!

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 1/16/2007 6:18:10 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 1/16/2007 6:07:53 PM
Author: Gypsy

Date: 1/16/2007 5:55:48 PM
Author: KristyDarling
I agree, TG. Cheating is ALWAYS conscious choice. If you''re ''not yourself'' and you''ve cheated, then you must have put your ''not self'' into a tempting situation where cheating was likely to occur, i.e. drunk at a convention out of town with horny coworkers and colleagues. If you are legally sane, there is ALWAYS a choice whether to cheat or not. Even if you''re stone cold drunk I would think that you would have the wherewithal to realize that you''re doing something very, very wrong. If not, then you''re probably not actually conscious...you''re probably in an alcoholic coma!

I have to disagree. I''ve been diagnosed with severe depression and anxiety issues... trust me, there are plenty of times when I ''wasn''t myself'' and I didn''t put myself into that situation in anyway. I was in a car accident. A bad one, and that was the result. It affected every aspect of my life and trust me there were times I would considered doing things I would normally never do to either FEEL SOMETHING or to FEEL NOTHING that I absolutely would not do when I am well, ''me.'' Things happen, that are the ''worse'' of life... and thse things make us act like something other than ourselves. I know people who have been laid off of very good, lucrative jobs (through no fault of their own), or lost money in the stock market (enron, 9/11) who were like totally different people after, than before. These are shades of grey.

ETA: These aren''t excuses. All I am saying is that both chemically/physiologically, and psychologically people react in completely different ways to things. Sometimes something that has no real impact on one person... has a completely different impact on another.

Gypsy, I am sorry to hear about all this. Hopefully you are better now.

It may be your wording, but you said you would ''consider doing things'' you ''would normally never do to either feel something something or feel nothing.'' To say you would CONSIDER it, to me means it is still a choice.

It was four years ago, and yes, thank you... I''m much better now.

I''m not saying that there wasn''t a judgement call to be made... only that my judgment ITSELF was impaired. The concious thought process itself was impaired... so the results of that process were impaired as well. In other words, AS A RESULT of that impairment, my choices themselves were faulty. And I honestly couldn''t tell at times. I would justify things that ... I would not justify as ''myself''. That''s what I was trying to say... and probably said it badly.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 1/16/2007 6:12:36 PM
Author: mtrb
Men are hardwired animalistically for procreation, as are most male animals.

Really? Man, someone better tell TGuy so he can get busy...he''s hardwired to the sofa to watch football....

 

[KristyDarling]

Gypsy -- thanks for the clarification. If someone is so chemically imbalanced that their normal thought process has been seriously impaired, then yes I could see past that and hopefully be able to forgive. But ideally, if my DH were THAT impaired, I''d be around to take care of him and make sure that he is comfortable and content as possible, heading off any potential infidelities.

BTW, I''m glad that you''re better now and no longer in such a scary and sad place.

 

[KristyDarling]

Date: 1/16/2007 6:35:20 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 1/16/2007 6:12:36 PM

Author: mtrb

Men are hardwired animalistically for procreation, as are most male animals.

Really? Man, someone better tell TGuy so he can get busy...he''s hardwired to the sofa to watch football....

LOL.

I better tell my DH too. He has no idea he''s hardwired to be such a STUD.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 1/16/2007 6:35:22 PM
Author: KristyDarling
Gypsy -- thanks for the clarification. If someone is so chemically imbalanced that their normal thought process has been seriously impaired, then yes I could see past that and hopefully be able to forgive. But ideally, if my DH were THAT impaired, I''d be around to take care of him and make sure that he is comfortable and content as possible, heading off any potential infidelities.

BTW, I''m glad that you''re better now and no longer in such a scary and sad place.

I do agree, and thanks for the clarification.

 

[poptart]

Date: 1/16/2007 6:36:58 PM
Author: KristyDarling

Date: 1/16/2007 6:35:20 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 1/16/2007 6:12:36 PM

Author: mtrb

Men are hardwired animalistically for procreation, as are most male animals.

Really? Man, someone better tell TGuy so he can get busy...he''s hardwired to the sofa to watch football....

LOL.

I better tell my DH too. He has no idea he''s hardwired to be such a STUD.

Yea, I''ll tell DH tonight. Then he can stop cooking and cleaning and helping around the house. Afterall, he''s supposed to be getting some action!

*M*

 

[divergrrl]

Date: 1/16/2007 4:36:17 PM
Author: Gypsy

Date: 1/16/2007 4:31:50 PM
Author: mtrb


And there is the rub... Men are from Mars, and women are from Venus.
Sex is entirely seperate from love for most guys. Most of us love our wives and learn how to incorporate this into sex for the benefit of our partner, but it is not inherently natural for most men. That is why men slip. I think with women the issues with the marriage go much deeper and that is when a woman slips.

Yeah. See what I don''t do... is buy this for a SECOND. And I know that my DF doesn''t buy into this either. Thank God.

Yeah, I don''t buy into it either Gypsy, and neither does my husband. He is so sensitive and feels that physical intimacy is sacred, and that if you can''t control your urges, then you are no better than a wild animal. This is nothing more than a convenient way to excuse bad behavior. And also, to insinuate that women don''t have primal urges unrelated to love is dead wrong too. There are some very liberated gals out there!

Jeannine

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 1/16/2007 6:35:22 PM
Author: KristyDarling
Gypsy -- thanks for the clarification. If someone is so chemically imbalanced that their normal thought process has been seriously impaired, then yes I could see past that and hopefully be able to forgive. But ideally, if my DH were THAT impaired, I''d be around to take care of him and make sure that he is comfortable and content as possible, heading off any potential infidelities.

BTW, I''m glad that you''re better now and no longer in such a scary and sad place.

Thank you Kristy. Me too!

It is hoped that you would be there to take care of your DH, like my DF was there for me. Cheating didn''t cross my mind at the time... but someone suggested SWINGING... and I actually thought it was a good idea for like... 5 minutes. And even that... normally, wouldn''t happen. And it worried me. It was funny to see DF''s face when I told him what had happened though.

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 1/16/2007 6:40:47 PM
Author: divergrrl

Date: 1/16/2007 4:36:17 PM
Author: Gypsy

Date: 1/16/2007 4:31:50 PM
Author: mtrb


And there is the rub... Men are from Mars, and women are from Venus.
Sex is entirely seperate from love for most guys. Most of us love our wives and learn how to incorporate this into sex for the benefit of our partner, but it is not inherently natural for most men. That is why men slip. I think with women the issues with the marriage go much deeper and that is when a woman slips.

Yeah. See what I don''t do... is buy this for a SECOND. And I know that my DF doesn''t buy into this either. Thank God.

Yeah, I don''t buy into it either Gypsy, and neither does my husband. He is so sensitive and feels that physical intimacy is sacred, and that if you can''t control your urges, then you are no better than a wild animal. This is nothing more than a convenient way to excuse bad behavior. And also, to insinuate that women don''t have primal urges unrelated to love is dead wrong too. There are some very liberated gals out there!

Jeannine

Thritto! My husband is apalled by men who use this as a reason to have casual sex, cheat, etc. ANd he isn''t capable of putting on his wife face and taking it off around his buddies, it is just not in him.

 

[mtrb]

Date: 1/16/2007 6:27:16 PM
Author: Gypsy

Date: 1/16/2007 6:12:36 PM

Author: mtrb



Absolutely. I love my wife, and I made that vow. In my experience women feel sexually attracted when they are cherished, supported and loved…that also makes them feel sexy.

Most men do not require such things to be sexually attracted, we are visual creatures–hence the popularity of ****.ography...lol. . Men are hardwired animalistically for procreation, as are most male animals.

In fact did you know there are statistics out there that say 95% of animals on this planet are non-monogamist.. 'Love' goes beyond animal instinct however…we are human. Think about all the negative “dog”/”pig” stereotypes out there about men... if they weren't at least partial truths to this.. then we wouldn't have stereotypes at all. My opinion and experiences indicate that this is probably just the animalistic side of humans.

Some people want to close those doors however and not consider this..but, all the signs point in that direction. It doesn't mean men are bad or it is wrong to have those feelings. Its not and I don’t believe a man should apologize for those feeling..its just something we have to understand as human. To make a vow and break it however, is an entirely different. Women are different and this bond deserves to be cherished. It is a promise.


My one piece of advice to men out there is.. if you never want your wife to cheat on you.. ALWAYS continue to court her like when you were dating. To make a woman feel sexy by courting her..taking her on dates..and lighting a candle here or there..this is probably the best way to satisfy and deter her from cheating…because that is what keeps her interested and feeling special!


Men… remember your promise…and women.. it helps if you can understand the “dirty” side of your man and give him that once in a while. Men need change.

Okay. Here's my issue with what you just wrote. You stated that in 95% of species males are NOT monogomous. That means that 5% are. Those 5% should not, in my opinion, use the 95% as an excuse to stray outside the norm of their species. I don't think that... I don't know.. Penguins look at gorillas and say 'hey' ... He gets to do it, why don't I? If you cheat, don't justify it by using biology. It doesn't wash for me. That 5% are monogomous. If one penguin choses to ignore that, its not because of something external, like a gorilla, its because of something within himself. That's all I'm saying.


As you said, love is outside of human instinct (arguable, but not the point) the point is that WE do love. A betrayal of that love being overrulled by biology doesn't wash. We love and we think and we are concious of our own existance... that sets us, humans, apart from animals. That being the case... why justify a BETRAYAL of that love with a bogus ' biology made me do it' arguement? You made you do it. Or, something like... a chemical imbalance (really biology problems)... substance abuse... MADE you do it. Either way...it wasn't that poor gorilla.

Ok Ladies, you can flog me all day long here.. but I am the only male voice speaking how a man actually thinks..it is not wrong or bad, just manly and I do not apologize for it.. Men and women's thought processes differ. Do you really think your husbands would tell you something like this and face the consequences...lol.

Look.. it happens every day. Regardless of how you see it..it is prevelant. I am using logic to pick apart why people cheat. Please give me a viable argument, otherwise if you disagree. More than 50% of people are divorced today and for the first time in history 51% of women are living alone. This is an interesting article. http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/16/us/16census.html&OQ=_rQ3D1&OP=54bbd952Q2FQ2B1Q22Q3CQ2B)y_q5yy(pQ2Bp22.Q2B2Q25Q2BQ25BQ2BNqQ2BQ25B_Q22TqNqGu(Q7Br

Do you believe we are truly monogamists or did it develop for social reasons?


Men and women are hardwired to be men and women at an animal level regardless of the ability to use our mind to think our way out of nature.

So give me an argument why people cheat then.

My opinion on the most basic level is… men cheat for sex, women cheat for love.

 

[divergrrl]

Date: 1/16/2007 6:16:58 PM
Author: EBree
I think it''s interesting that people are implying they''d possibly stay together through cheating for the kids. As a child of divorced parents, I can tell you the two being divorced was FAR less traumatizing than what I would have lived with had they been together. (Neither of them cheated, it was just an unhappy marriage they jumped into far too soon.)

For me, I''d have such anger toward my husband that, for the health of my kids, I''d absolutely have to leave him. I wouldn''t want them exposed to that constant unhappiness.

ETA: IrishAngel, were you reading my mind?

Ebree: Thats not what I meant, but I get how you got it. I''m saying if that for some reason, my DH cheated, I found out...etc, etc. I''d have to see where we wound up in our relationship. If he was genuinely sorry, and desperate to keep our family together, and if I was still IN LOVE with him, then I would most certainly try, with the help of a qualified marriage counselor, to make it work.

But there has to be love, and trust has to be rebuilt.

If there was no remorse, no love, no chance or hope of trust, then I am strong enough, kids or no, to walk away and start over again.

But I do love that man of mine so much, I''d forgive pretty much anything except physical abuse.

Of course, ''tis easy to say, since I am happily married at this point (5 years, one toddler)

I have been cheated on by 2 long term boyfriends in the past, and I DUMPED them the second I confirmed it with proof. I know what that feeling is when you can''t trust someone & you feel like something is not "right". DH was the first man I''ve ever been completely relaxed with in the "trust" department, so while it may be naive, I just don''t feel like I need to worry about him straying.

I''m all for trying to keep it together if there is something worth salvaging, but I don''t think we can quantify that until the bomb hits and the dust clears.

But I agree, if the parents are miserable, then its not worth it just for the kids.

Jeannine

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 1/16/2007 6:52:49 PM
Author: mtrb

Date: 1/16/2007 6:27:16 PM
Author: Gypsy

Date: 1/16/2007 6:12:36 PM

Author: mtrb



Absolutely. I love my wife, and I made that vow. In my experience women feel sexually attracted when they are cherished, supported and loved…that also makes them feel sexy.

Most men do not require such things to be sexually attracted, we are visual creatures–hence the popularity of ****.ography...lol. . Men are hardwired animalistically for procreation, as are most male animals.

In fact did you know there are statistics out there that say 95% of animals on this planet are non-monogamist.. ''Love'' goes beyond animal instinct however…we are human. Think about all the negative “dog”/”pig” stereotypes out there about men... if they weren''t at least partial truths to this.. then we wouldn''t have stereotypes at all. My opinion and experiences indicate that this is probably just the animalistic side of humans.

Some people want to close those doors however and not consider this..but, all the signs point in that direction. It doesn''t mean men are bad or it is wrong to have those feelings. Its not and I don’t believe a man should apologize for those feeling..its just something we have to understand as human. To make a vow and break it however, is an entirely different. Women are different and this bond deserves to be cherished. It is a promise.


My one piece of advice to men out there is.. if you never want your wife to cheat on you.. ALWAYS continue to court her like when you were dating. To make a woman feel sexy by courting her..taking her on dates..and lighting a candle here or there..this is probably the best way to satisfy and deter her from cheating…because that is what keeps her interested and feeling special!


Men… remember your promise…and women.. it helps if you can understand the “dirty” side of your man and give him that once in a while. Men need change.

Okay. Here''s my issue with what you just wrote. You stated that in 95% of species males are NOT monogomous. That means that 5% are. Those 5% should not, in my opinion, use the 95% as an excuse to stray outside the norm of their species. I don''t think that... I don''t know.. Penguins look at gorillas and say ''hey'' ... He gets to do it, why don''t I? If you cheat, don''t justify it by using biology. It doesn''t wash for me. That 5% are monogomous. If one penguin choses to ignore that, its not because of something external, like a gorilla, its because of something within himself. That''s all I''m saying.


As you said, love is outside of human instinct (arguable, but not the point) the point is that WE do love. A betrayal of that love being overrulled by biology doesn''t wash. We love and we think and we are concious of our own existance... that sets us, humans, apart from animals. That being the case... why justify a BETRAYAL of that love with a bogus '' biology made me do it'' arguement? You made you do it. Or, something like... a chemical imbalance (really biology problems)... substance abuse... MADE you do it. Either way...it wasn''t that poor gorilla.

Ok Ladies, you can flog me all day long here.. but I am the only male voice speaking how a man actually thinks..it is not wrong or bad, just manly and I do not apologize for it.. Men and women''s thought processes differ. Do you really think your husbands would tell you something like this and face the consequences...lol.

Look.. it happens every day. Regardless of how you see it..it is prevelant. I am using logic to pick apart why people cheat. Please give me a viable argument, otherwise if you disagree. More than 50% of people are divorced today and for the first time in history 51% of women are living alone. This is an interesting article. http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/16/us/16census.html&OQ=_rQ3D1&OP=54bbd952Q2FQ2B1Q22Q3CQ2B)y_q5yy(pQ2Bp22.Q2B2Q25Q2BQ25BQ2BNqQ2BQ25B_Q22TqNqGu(Q7Br

Do you believe we are truly monogamists or did it develop for social reasons?


Men and women are hardwired to be men and women at an animal level regardless of the ability to use our mind to think our way out of nature.

So give me an argument why people cheat then.

My opinion on the most basic level is… men cheat for sex, women cheat for love.

OK, as a very very VERY broad generalization, I could agree with you. Since you say that this is your opinion on the "most basic level", I think you probably mean the same thing.

I''m more wired like a man. I am visually stimulated and don''t need any lovely dovey stuff to go out and get sex (this is before I was married). But if you were to poll my girlfriends, I would be the minority, if not the only one. Most of them still prefer to have sex in the dark, although that may be more because of insecurities than lack of liking the visual.

I think the vast majority of people cheat because at the end of the day, they don''t respect their partner or their relationship enough...and that goes for men and women both.

 

[E B]

Jeannine,

I honestly wasn't trying to single anyone out, nor did I have one person in mind when I posted what I did. All of these posts seem to be running together, and I just noticed the word "kids" in several. That being said, you're married and have a child so you're much closer to the situation than I am and therefore have a much more informed view on the parent side. I was just voicing the kid side!

When I have children, my view might very well change.

 

[longtimelurker]

Date: 1/16/2007 5:53:13 PM
Author: Mara
here''s a question that is kind of interesting for me.

for those who say ''absolutely it''s a deal breaker, no gray lines''....are you married or engaged or just dating?

for those who say ''it depends on the scenario or it''s gray lines or i''m not sure etc'' ....same thing?

and do you have kids?

i honestly think that it''s easier to say ''it''s a deal breaker'' if you are not married to someone and don''t have kids. but i tend to see more people (in my daily life too) who have more ''shades of gray'' attitudes after getting married and being with that person for years and/or also having kids.

shades of grey -- married 17+ years with kids.

Absolutes are very easy when you are young and sooo in love. But just like you say you would *never* ___________ (take a job with xyz company; stay working for a boss that does "X" etc) sometimes you do for reasons that never entered into the equation before.

Would the relationship change, sure would--but relationships are ALWAYS changing. Would I forgive? Probably not. Would I forget--never. Is it possible that it would receed into the background? Yes (but still poke out it''s ugly head every so often).

BTW not confessing anything. Just applying other things that have happened & how they change a relationship. For the worse and for the better.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 1/16/2007 6:52:49 PM
Author: mtrb


Ok Ladies, you can flog me all day long here.. but I am the only male voice speaking how a man actually thinks..it is not wrong or bad, just manly and I do not apologize for it.. Men and women''s thought processes differ. Do you really think your husbands would tell you something like this and face the consequences...lol.

Look.. it happens every day. Regardless of how you see it..it is prevelant. I am using logic to pick apart why people cheat. Please give me a viable argument, otherwise if you disagree. More than 50% of people are divorced today and for the first time in history 51% of women are living alone. This is an interesting article. http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/16/us/16census.html&OQ=_rQ3D1&OP=54bbd952Q2FQ2B1Q22Q3CQ2B)y_q5yy(pQ2Bp22.Q2B2Q25Q2BQ25BQ2BNqQ2BQ25B_Q22TqNqGu(Q7Br

Do you believe we are truly monogamists or did it develop for social reasons?


Men and women are hardwired to be men and women at an animal level regardless of the ability to use our mind to think our way out of nature.

So give me an argument why people cheat then.

My opinion on the most basic level is… men cheat for sex, women cheat for love.

Why are humans the only species that kills for sport, not necessity? Why we the only species that murders outright? We do abberant things. But its US--both men and women-- that do them. Maybe its a consequence of our thought process... that we are self actualized and self aware that makes it happen. That would also explain why women cheat, for the same ''biological'' reason, as men do. Have you thought that maybe women are lying when they blame it on emotions and love... and only do that because its NOT socially acceptable to say, "I wanted to, so I did it?" that all the emotional weepy lovey dovey excuses are just that? Excuses. Just as it is socially acceptable for a man to use your arguement to excuse his actions rather than say, "I wanted to do it!" That both of the arguements are just... total BS? That''s what I think, as a woman. I can tell you... I would not need an emotional attachment to cheat if I were so inclined. I didn''t need it in my single life in order to be intimate with someone. It was SOCIALLY acceptable to TELL myself that there was an ''emotional'' reason... but well, I never went in for self dellusion, and had enough self cofidence to not care what was socially acceptable. The fact was: "I wanted to do!" So I did.

 

[allycat0303]

I had this conversation this weekend with my guy, one of my close friends and her boyfriend. It was the whole cheating thing (also incorperated was strippers, looking at other woman...what a conversation). In any case, the point came up that guys tend to always say things like "I would never cheat on you", " there''s so many bad guys out there, but I''m not like that" and so on. But then my friend said "how do you know you have a good guy? And that not ALL guys just say that to their girlfriends" which got me thinking that practically EVERYONE I know in a *good* relationship says their guy would never do that to them (which I guess is a necessary belief to be dating the person). But the stats on cheating are sky-high, so there must be more then a few of those self-confessed good guys, who aren''t that good of guys.

I don''t know, it kind of made me question everything. I mean if I wanted to cheat, would he know? Not really. It''s easy enough to hide, and he would probably still think he had this terrific loyal girlfriend in the world. So I don''t see how it couldn''t just as easily swing the other way. I read something once that made me a little cynical, which was "everyone who is in love thinks that no one else in the world feels the way they (as a couple) do."

My guy''s friend slept with his best-friends girlfriend and was the BEST MAN at their wedding. How disgusting is that? And he married that girl thinking he was getting the best deal ever. My friend''s boyfriend''s friend hired a prostitute at the bachelor party before his wedding. But in both cases, the SO thought they were so in love etc. It just got me thinking about how well you really know the other person you are with.

So my answer is that if I caught my guy it would be over. If we had children, I would try my best to work it out with him (but I don''t think there''s a garantee it would work out). But that''s what I say. I think it''s impossible to really say what I would do if faced with the situation....but having seen a lot of cheating around me, I find that it''s VERY hard to get caught. I''ve known at least a dozen or more relationships where the guy has cheated (one woman) and they''ve never been caught. And I honestly don''t think I would catch him, unless he chose to confess. I think part of the trusting is not looking....so the chances that it smacks you in the face is minimal.

 

[divergrrl]

Ebree: Oh hon! I didn''t feel singled out, I was just talking directly to you, since I had an opinion having a wee one at home.

No worries love, I thought you had a VERY GOOD question, and it made sense, and I wanted to answer it, that''s all.

Jeannine