Would you consider leaving him?

[Erin]

Regarding the proposal - if you were concerned that neither your time frame nor his were going to satisfy both of you (assuming yours is girl soon and his is boy soon) - would you ever consider leaving the relationship or would you stick it out knowing it was going to be closer to when hell freezes over?

 

[katrina_33]

I didn''t vote because I think it''s so much more complicated than that!

If my guy had a legitimate reason for wanting to do it "boy soon" rather than "girl soon" (money, not feeling quite mature enough, whatever), and I felt assured that the hold-up had nothing to do with him doubting that I was ''the one,'' then I would never leave just because it was taking longer than I wanted it to....within reason...(like, if it was taking years and years longer than I wanted it to, I would get really antsy!)

If he kept making excuses and different deadlines that we''d discussed came and went and I really sensed that there was a bigger issue that he wasn''t talking about, we''d have problems!

And I guess if I wanted kids right away or there was some other reason that I felt I absolutely needed to be married by a certain time, and he absolutely didn''t want to be married by that time, that''s a larger issue too.

I think it just depends so much on the situation. If he wants to marry you, just not at the exact same time that you''d ideally like to marry him, I think that''s something most people should be able to compromise on. If you get the sense that he''s not convinced he wants to marry you ever, or get married to anyone ever, I''d say it''s time to move on!

 

[Erin]

I know there are factors that are different for everyone. I am 30 and wanting children soon, we have money just not lots of it and he'd like more, he was supposed to have proposed to his girlfriend of almost 5 years before me and never did so she left (she was 4 years older than him), he's had the ring for almost ten months, we've wanted to marry each other from almost 3 months into the relationship, I talk too much about weddings and engagement......the list goes on.

However, would you ever consider leaving or is that just like giving up for a silly reason?

Edited to add - I talk about wedding/engagement at least once a week and am driving him crazy.

Last night he said you know - pressuring someone about this so much can make a man not want to do it anymore.

I said - waiting too long for it to happen can make a girl not want it anymore.

That's where my thoughts officially jumped off the diving board into the deep end. We're still at work and haven't resolved the blow up yet.

 

[moremoremore]

I agree. I don't think there is a clear cut answer. But if neither you nor he have any complicating issues, and you've been dating for a reasonable time, there's no way I'm sticking around waiting and praying that he asks me. I'm not going to beg. It's either in the cards or not. I wait for no man

Watch my dust buddy. When it's right for both of you, it's right.

***edited- we posted at the same time. You sure "we've" been wanting to get married for a while...or is it just you?

WAIT A MINUTE- he bought you a ring and has had it for ten months? I'm sorry. But I'm gone. He's got unresolved issues.

 

[Erin]

We''ve been together for 3.5 years.

If you''re just a lurker (so was I once) please cast a vote anyway - it''s anonymous - please?

I need to know how seriously insane or not I am for thinking this.

 

[NoonersMom]

Erin, that''s a difficult situation to be in. All I can say is that no one can provide the answer but your heart. If you truly love this man and believe that it is worth sticking around longer then hold on. Otherwise if you feel he''s had the time to pull his act together then maybe it''s time to move on.

Having said that, I wouldn''t throw in the towel without an honest heart to heart. I don''t think I could throw it away that easily, but that is me. If you have the heart to heart, I would openly discuss what you are feeling & why and what both your timelines are and what barriers or issues there are to moving forward together. Keep in mind that this should be brutally honest so both know where the other stands. If you can come to an mutual understanding on a timeline, then stick with that and if the time comes without a proposal then it''s time to move forward without each other.

As a side note, If he purchased the ring for you almost a year ago, I would say that he definitely sees a future with you. The issues may not be related to you or your relationship. For example, one of the other poster''s BF felt he had to line up his finances and put himself in the best possible spot BEFORE he could propose. He was doing this for their future together and felt very strongly about doing that. Sometimes the men want to do right & do it with integrity. One of the men on the board also said that everytime he was ready to propose his GF brought it up, so then he had to delay it a little longer. Food for thought.

Either way, every situation is different and ultimately you must follow your instincts & do what is right for you. Sorry, that probably doesn''t help.....

 

[Buena Girl]

Erin-

I don''t know your whole situation, but this is what I think you''ve said:

Both of you live together;
He has bought an e-ring;
You mutually want to spend the rest of your lives together;
The main issue your b/f has about not proposing to you yet is money;

Is this correct?

It seems like you have the type of commitment to each other like a marriage, it''s just that the wedding vows and reception haven''t happened yet. Since he already bought the ring it sounds like he thinks you are THE ONE for him. If you still feel like your man is THE ONE, I know it is a long , hard wait, but sometimes we have to keep the faith. Money and providing stability for a wife a lot of times are major issues for guys (definitely major reason my finger is ringless). I''m sure if money is the main issue, then your b/f will crown your finger with your beautiful, sparkly ring as soon as he feels he can provide for you for the next major phase in your relationship.

Best of luck!!! Stay strong. We''re all pulling for you.

One more thought: It might be worth waiting til hell freezes over. Especially if it looks like a giant fiery & sparkly diamond

 

[NoonersMom]

Then again, Moremoremore has a point. I don''t know of many men that can hold onto an engagement ring for 10 months. A friend just got engaged. Her now fiance picked it up on a Monday afternoon and had a romantic evening planned for later in the week. After he picked it up, he couldn''t wait...he wanted her to come over that night so he could propose. Well, she had other plans, but eventually stopped by. He asked her there & then. Food for thought....

 

[moremoremore]

It's easy for me to say though...b/c I'm not in the situation. Her first post made it sound like hell was going to freeze over before it happened. She must feel that way for a reason- is it b/c he's had the ring for 10 months? Other reasons?

Do you really talk about it ALL the time? I've found that with my husband, the more I push, the less he gives in. Those boys just hate pressure. Don't say another word about it for a while and you might be surprised!


Edited- If it makes you feel any better, I'm contemplating starting a "should I leave my husband tonight? thread LOL. He's just PISSING ME OFF today. Maybe I'll use his Amex instead. Hang in there.

 

[northstar_78]

Wheww...what a tough poll! I''m going to agree with the masses and say that this isn''t a yes or no question. If you already have a ring and have been together for a while (I mean two years or so) I think the committment is there. You''ve already agreed that you two will be married...and he loves you enough to commit to that. Men are so fickle! Have you talked to him about this?

My bf and I will be celebrating our two year anniversary this summer. Being us we''ve already talked about our engagement and marriage. We both agree that right now is not the time for either...BUT we want to. We''ve talked about timing too, so we know where we stand. Personally I don''t mind a longer engagement ie more than a year but he doesn''t so we''ve compromised and pushed purchasing the ring back a little...there are also financial reasons for this too! We''re traveling a lot this year; California in March and Asia in the summer so the ring just didn''t make it...

My best friend and two of her friends just got engaged and I have to admit that I''m feeling a little pressure but he doesn''t because most of his friends are still single. When I say pressure its not that I want to get engaged right now too but there are a lot of outsiders questioning "why aren''t you enaged yet?"

I gotta admit that I''ve known a few guys who got that ring in their hands and proposed right away BUT I''ve also known some others who were engaged for years! Go figure. I''m so sorry that you feel this way!

 

[JCJD]

Erin sweetheart, this is a very complicated situation. I''m so sorry you''re going through this!!

Sorry, but I agree that this is not a cut-and-dry situation. Some thoughts:
Have you told him EXACTLY how his incredible delay in proposing makes you feel? No, I mean have you REALLY told him EXACTLY how you feel? My guess is no, but you need to get over that communication barrier to be able to handle marriage with him. You say you talk about marriage etc once a week - is it passive aggressive stuff? "Wow, it sure would be nice if we were engaged like Joe and Sue..." or "Gee, I wish we could be planning our wedding like Tim and Sally..."? You need to be honest, vulnerable, and direct!! I know it''s hard, but you''ll really know how he feels about marrying you if you aren''t completely honest about your feelings with him. Tell him what you''ve told us - you''re doubting his love/committment for you, you don''t understand what the hold up is, you want to be married before you have children and you want children before you turn XX years old, you don''t just want a rock, or a big fancy wedding, or the bells and whistles (although they''d be very very nice), you just want to be married to HIM (finally!!). Also, find out what he''s waiting for. If it''s money, set a budget together so you can get there sooner. If it''s you backing off on the pressure, then back off. If it''s walking on Mars, then you''ve got a problem.

Be vulnerable with him - it''s the only way you two can grow together.

Another gem from the life of JCJD (Stop me ladies!!!) My fi was dead-set on proposing with a diamond, while I really couldn''t care less at the time!! Finally, after crying and crying to him one day about how I just wanted to move on with our lives, that the diamond wasn''t important to me but marrying him is (especially since he was completely broke and unemployed at that time.....), he understood. A month after getting a job (FINALLY!!!!!), he proposed without a ring, month after that he got the diamond. He finally understood what I needed and wanted and compromised that with his own desires.

 

[Libster]

Hi Erin,
I don''t envy your position and know how frustrated you must be. I would really have to sit down and have a heart to heart discussion with him. If I was frustrated with where our relationship stood and felt it was going nowhere I would need to know why he was stalling, what are the issues. Has he had a change of heart? If so, then the only fair thing to do is discuss this with you. Is he just feeling like proposing is something that he doesn''t feel in control of anymore because you talk about it frequently and are expecting it? Guys can be so strange when they think it''s not their idea. If I want my husband to do something, all I have to do to make sure he doesn''t do it, is to suggest it. Open a bottle of wine, get comfy and get to discussing!

 

[twinkletoes]

What bothers me is the fact that you said he was supposed to have proposed to his last gf but didn''t do so. Is there a reason why he didn''t? Did he have the ring for her then as well? He needs to reassure you that it will happen and that he has a valid excuse. Why not get engaged now and wait for marriage when he''s more financially set? Are you sure he has a ring? Have you seen it? It just doesn''t seem right that he would have the ring and hold off for such a long time. And that''s a pretty mean spirited thing of him to say to you. Pressure or none, it seems 10 months is an eternity to wait when you know he''s got the ring. Have you explained to him how it puts doubts in your head regarding your relationship? Does he reassure you that it WILL happen, that you ARE the one?

 

[appletini]

Erin (big hug!) I really feel for you right now, no woman should ever have to feel this way. You need to have a serious talk with your man and let him know how you feel and how this isn''t fair to you. Also b/c you live together he might take you for granted and think you won''t leave b/c you are so invested.

I hope he behaves...and remember actions speak louder than words! We are all here for you!

 

[Erin]

Thanks for all your points - a lot of things I need to think about concerning your comments. However, I did want to add that we have had the heart to heart - about 3 times in the last 10 months. The last one was the beginning of January. The time before that he felt just awful that he had only been keeping his own priorities in his mind without thinking of my feelings - he felt terrible. It seems like that was just smoke and mirrors because yesterday I mentioned going to visit a reception site in person and he lost it - claiming I live and breathe weddings and engagements. Geesh - when I showed him the pictures he was excited.

Also to be fair we bought the ring together and have been making payments out of the joint checking account. All he said at the time was that I wasn''t going to just wear it home from the store. Give him time to come up with something creative. Ten months later.....

Sometimes I feel like leaving because in the overall scheme of things - I shouldn''t have to be the only one excited about getting married. I want someone who can''t wait for me to be his wife. I''m a good person with lots of great qualities and consider myself a better catch. He should be anticipating the day he proposes not like a chore he''s putting off. I guess that''s when I look at the big picture and say to myself - he should have done this a long time ago, why hasn''t he?

 

[blueroses]

Erin, I sent you a PM, but I am feeling for you so much. I think our situations have a lot in common, and I can tell you from my end at least that it SUCKS. But for your honey, I wonder if it''s not a fear of marriage, but more a reluctance/aversion to engagement/proposal/weddings? Because just last week he was saying to you hey, let''s just go down to city hall and do it NOW. So I think it''s clear he wants to marry you, but for some reason he''s all tripped up by the trappings of marriage--the girly stuff? I don''t know.

I am at a loss myself--I''ve done what JC has said more times than I care to count. Maybe I don''t know how to have the honest, direct, vulnerable convo. wtih my own bf without feeling like it''s degenerating into a lecture or a pity party, but I don''t know how else to make my bf understand what the delay is doing to me/us....and I have also felt the "give-up" urge of late. It''s hard when there really doesn''t seem to be a clear and reasonable explanation for the "boy-soon."

And then I feel ashamed of myself b/c I think I''m way to co-dependent to even leave if I decided it was the way to go. And more than that, I don''t want to leave. How do you feel? Is it the situation that has you fed up? Or is it starting to be HIM that has you fed up? Does this make you scared about the future and other deadlines/put-off decisions? Because that''s what it starts to do with me. We''ll be 31/32 this year. I''m not ready for kids, but it''s sooner rather than later.....and the way that my bf has delayed the engagement/marriage makes me start to worry about other "life-delays."

BLEAH! It is just yucky. Has this been growing gradually for you, or was it just his recent comment that set you off?

(((((HUGS))))

 

[icekid]

i don''t have much to add to what everyone else has already said... other than HUGS!!! i really don''t think you''re being treated in the way that you deserve in this situation. i think making you wait 10 months is RIDICULOUS. i can''t blame you for talking about the wedding... i''d probably have killed my bf by this point if i were in your place. i think you need to keep looking and get to the bottom of this. you already live together; he HAS the ring; even though wedding are expensive, and yes you''ve been talking about buying a house- that''s no reason not to be ENGAGED when you already have the ring! i don''t know... there is just something that doesn''t seem right. you absolutely deserve someone who is excited about marrying you. i agree w/ JCJD- you absolutely have to lay it all out for him, b/c it''s not nice and it''s not fair for him to do this to you.

good luck! you know we''re all here for you regardless... but i hope he''s just being a silly boy and you work everything out (and get that ring on your finger!)

 

[twinkletoes]

Maybe he''s waiting for the ring to be paid off?

=(

I''m sorry you''re going through this. Maybe stop with the wedding talk/planning for a while and see how you feel & see how he reacts. Maybe he feels you''re too caught up in the wedding day and not the marriage? or maybe he feels he needs to pay off the ring and save up for the wedding?

I hope it all works out.
(((hugs)))

 

[Blue824]

Wow, I wasn''t expecting to see this! I''m really sorry that you''re feeling this way, and 100% agree with the othe girls that this isn''t an easy decision.

If he freaks out about looking at a reception site, I''d, personally, be worried. I honestly dont think that''s a question that warrants getting angry over. I try to limit my discussions of e-rings (what I like and how I can''t wait for that), but P feels the same way,so he doesnt get upset. We''ve talked about at what point we''d feel stable financially and career wise and agree on it. If your guy doesnt seem excited about this, or even willing to talk about it occassionally...he has thoughts that he is not sharing with you.

I guess I don''t see finances as an entirely honest answer to why he has waited...I mean, he has the ring! That''s usually the financial problem that holds things up. And just because you get engaged doesnt mean that you need a wedding the next day or the following season. You can get engaged and plan the wedding for a later date. It doesnt have to cost a fortune either.

I''d have one more big heart-to-heart. Sometimes I find the easiest thing to do is write everything I''m feeling/thinking out. When I get into these conversations sometimes I chicken out of saying things or just have so many things going on in my mind that I dont remember! Sometimes I give him the letter or email to read while he''s in my presence, and other times I make him read it, think about what I''ve said and then we discuss. Half the time he truely doesnt understand how upset I am or why I am so upset and when he has the reasons in front of him, in writing, and sees how upset I am, he realizes how important it is and is willing to deal with it or change things to rectify the situation. If he understand that this is an issue that will push you to ending the relationship and wants to take steps to resolving it, he''s a keeper...if he comes up with more excuses and isn''t willing to ''negotiate'' or figure out a time line you two agree on, it is going to be an issue that will bother you for a while, and it may be time to end things.

Erin, I wish you the best of luck, and its super sappy, but I firmly believe that whatever happens, happens for a reason.

 

[Matata]

Yes, I would. And I did. After 7 years of cohabiting, I moved out. Decided to keep seeing him but kept the relationship more casual; 7 months later he proposed. I said "no", but said I would reconsider if he didn''t fall back to his errant ways. Eight months after his proposal I said "yes." In my case, he didn''t truly appreciate what he had until he lost it.

 

[katrina_33]

I didn''t realize that this thread pertained to your situation at first, just thought it was a general hypothetical question!

I have yucky flashes of this as our future situation sometimes - imagining that after another year he still hasn''t proposed and this is where I''m left...and I HATE it! I try not to let myself think of it as a possibility - things coming to the point where I''m thinking about leaving because he''s obviously not excited about the prospect of marriage, but I can definitely imagine how you''re feeling.

The things that seem like red flags to me are that he had a similar situation arise with a past girlfriend, that he''s had the ring for so long, and that he gets defensive when you talk about reception locations. I can see getting defensive if you were constantly nagging HIM about WHEN he was going to propose, but just talking about a wedding location shouldn''t freak him out if you''ve both already agreed that you want to get married in the somewhat near future.

I like what you said about deserving someone who''s excited about marrying you, just as you are excited about marrying him.

Honestly, I''d tell him that. I''d tell him honestly that the thought that it might be time to end things has crossed your mind, and see how he reacts.

My boyfriend and I broke up for a bit earlier this year. He had been acting generally distant (to be fair, he was on location for 3 months shooting a film and was working 18 hour days and there was a 3 hour time change between us). But, on top of that, he just let us drift apart during that time. At one point during a fight at the end, I said "maybe we should break up. You''re acting like our relationship isn''t a top priority for you anymore, so maybe that''s what it''s coming to." I kind of meant it more as a wake up call for him to get his sh*t together than anything else. I was not prepared for him to say "Yeah, maybe so," which is what he said. He cried a ton and said he wasn''t feeling capable of investing the kind of energy it took to sustain such a serious relationship, and that I deserved better. It SUCKED at the time to hear because I wasn''t really prepared for it and I''d brought it up and asked for it, but then I thought, well, better to hear it from the source, and end it, than not have pushed the issue and let things go on any longer with both of us unsatisfied. He said later that he hadn''t even thought of breaking up as an option, and although he wasn''t happy and it was lurking there in his subconscious, he had NO intention of suggesting we break up that night or anytime soon. It''s when I said it that it dawned on him that that''s what he wanted (or thought it was at the time).

I think something like that is in order just to test the waters. Don''t let it feel like an ultimatum where you''re threatening to leave unless he proposes right away. Just give him an opportunity to know how serious this has become, and let there be a suggestion that maybe things need to end, so if he sees that as an option at all, even subconsciously, he can get it out there and you guys will know where you stand.

Hopefully, he''ll be agahst and will freak out that things ever got this dire, and will get his sh*t together PRONTO!!! Or at least be agahst and offer a truly acceptable reason why he hasn''t proposed yet and a mutually agreed upon timeline for doing so that he sticks to.

Good luck, my heart goes out to you!

You do deserve better, and hopefully he''s ready to do better!!!!!!!!!

 

[allycat0303]

Erin!

Hugs! I can''t believe you are going through this! This is what I would *honestly* do. Please don''t bash me for this girls! I assume you have had all of the talks about where this is going etc. If marriage is that important to you, I would tell him that I don''t think we want the same things, I would also start looking for my own apartment. I would still continue for a few months, relationship, and see where it takes me, but after that, if he hasn''t proposed then I would end it. I don''t think that a 10 month period with the ring is ok. I think it''s too long. And considering his past relationship ended because of an almost proposal, I would have some serious questions about the state of the relationship. Talk it out (firmly state your position) at the very least you need a time frame of when this is going to happen.

 

[heartsonfire]

Erin! Don''t know what else to say! All these lovely ladies said it all. May I give you a big hug! I know for sure how much you love your BF. Look how patient you stood by his side. And I''m sure that he too loves you dearly. It''s a very icky situation. Hang in there!
Something good will come your way! Things happen for a reason! (((hugs)))

 

[MelissaSue]

Hugs to you Erin..
I have a question though? Wasn''t it just last week when he wanted to marry you like.. right away?
Maybe its the wedding he''s afraid of and not the marriage! Or maybe he''s really trying to come up with a great proposal idea!

 

[Shay]

oh Erin I''m so sorry, this is a horribly cruel situation.
I''m sure my opinion will be considered very unromantic and unpopular but here it is anyway:

He knows that this is upsetting you.
He knows what you want.
He has promised to make a commitment (buying the ring) but not followed through in almost a year!.
You live together and give him everything a wife would.
He probably sees no reason to change that, it is much easier to keep things as they are when he gets everything he wants even though you are not getting what you want and need.

I would suggest writing a letter as blue suggested telling him all of these things and how hurt you are. If he still does not commit you need to move out and start thinking of yourself first. What if this keeps up for the next 5 years? What if it keeps up past your baby making years?

Staying in this situation indefinatley will make you bitter and unhappy and the relationship will be damaged.

If you do not follow this course and choose to tough it out then you need to stop talking about marriage and engagement immediatley. Do not mention it at all and put the ball firmly in his court.

Staying with him while continually bemoaning your lack of engagement will simply be damaging to both of you.

I hope this helped, I really hope it works out for you.

 

[Erin]

Thank you all for your kind words. No matter which side of the fence you fell you all have validated the crazy thoughts going through my head. I suppose I''ve always dealt with this like ''what a silly boy to wait so long'' but now these thoughts of leaving have occured and I''ve wondered if I''ve just been the silly girl who had too much faith. Blueroses you hit home on my biggest fear - if he takes this long to do something that should be priority and full of easy decisions, how long will he drag his feet on children? Obviously another occurence where I can''t do it along and he might say soon, stop asking. These decisions are not all about when only you are ready. Even though we both decided a long time ago to get married and have kids, look what he''s done with part 1.

I think writing a letter is something I should do for myself. I find that as I write it and read it over it''s sometimes theraputic to just get it out on paper for myself - even more so than letting the other person read it. At least when he is ready to talk about it again - because I certainly won''t be saying a word - I''ll be prepared will all my thoughts in order. And finally I would feel better about imposing a deadline. If it seems things are still the same whenever ___ comes, I''ll follow through with leaving. I feel I have to. It''s all too comfortable now living with each other. I need the marriage to continue forward. He doesn''t so there is no priority on the subject - to him, this situation now is everything he needs.

Finally, Melissa yes he was prepared to do the 5 minute court house marriage. I''ve waited this long in life I don''t want the fancy wedding but I do want A wedding - not just a blip on the radar screen - we have too many special people in our lives (who nag me not him) who want to be there to support us. He knows this is what I want and yet he still tries to offer up the courthouse as a solution. Classic fear of marriage - my poor mother doesn''t understand, well, neither do I.

 

[appletini]

I''m going to attempt to add some humor...how funny would it be if you took the ring out of the microwave and started wearing it. I wonder how long it would take him to notice that its on your finger, and you could act like you didn''t notice or something and then tell him that he needs a better hiding place.

okay on a serious note, Erin I just wish you luck and remember YOU ARE THE PRIZE!!!

 

[eks6426]

Erin--I feel for you. 10 months is a really long time to wait. This may be a totally off the wall comment...but have you ever considered asking him to marry you? Get him some sort of token as an engagement present. Maybe it would take the pressure off of him if he didn''t have to come up with the proposal. Then if he says yes, maybe compromise on the wedding/reception thing...Is he more afraid of the big wedding or the big reception? If it''s the wedding..give in and do the courthouse..with your closest family there...then have a big party. Or if it''s the reception hoopla, do the big wedding but a very low-key reception. If you can''t reach some understanding, I''d take Matata''s plan and move out. Keep contact with him and see where it goes, but right now he has his cake and is eating it too.....

 

[blue_chica]

Erin - I was afraid of a situation developing like this when my BF and I moved in together. It seems like it''s just too easy for guys to coast in a situation like that, all the comforts of marriage, without the commitment or investment.

My blunt $0.02: He''s had the ring for 10 months without proposing - that''s a warning flag, as is the situation with his previous GF, as are his remarks regarding sites etc. I would definitely be on the edge like you are, and frankly I''d probably be telling him so. There is a difference between "pressuring" someone to get married, and saying this is what I want, I''ll be leaving if I don''t get it. You are not obsessed with weddings, he''s afraid of them, and I''ve never understood that stereotype or mentality. If a guy doesn''t want to be married, well...his loss.

I also wouldn''t propose to him. At this point, I think he needs to make the gesture, otherwise you''ll always wonder if it''s what he wanted.

*HUGS* This is a scary situation to be in, so no wonder you are worried about follow-through. You can be strong, you ARE strong.

 

[sparkling]

Erin,
I was in the same boat as you 7 years ago. He wouldn''t buy me a ring because he didn''t have the money. Then a year after we got the ring he wouldn''t set a date. I told him I''d leave if we didn''t do it (was applying for a job in Scotland) and I literally set the date, picked him up, took him to the court house and we got married, him frowning the whole time, me

. He wanted the relationship but he didn''t want to be married to me with all that entailed and I tried to talk him out of it. Unfortunately he just quit protesting and I took that as a yes. Anyway, after finally getting married we got divorced 6 years later and I learned the hard lesson that you have to listen to what someone''s telling you about their ability to make you happy. Getting over someone is hard, facing the rejection that can come with dating is hard, but you talk people out of their objections at your own risk. AND for the uninitiated out there, getting divorced is a huge PITA! First of all there''s a waiting period almost everywhere which makes it hard to date and get on with your life and you have to come to an amicable agreement with someone who practically all you can agree on is "its over". If kids are involved its horribly worse. So, instead of losing the time you spend in the marriage with him unhappy you also lose the year or more you spend getting divorced plus the expense and embarrassment. Really short-term pain of having the tooth pulled (breaking up) is alot less bad than the long term pain of getting a gum infection which goes to your heart and comes close to killing you (divorce).

Does your BF have a "clinical commitment phobia" because somebody wanted to marry him before and he didn''t go through with it and is he showing signs of that again? Who knows. It would be pretty rational for a 25 year old to think he couldn''t handle marriage. Hopefully 5 years later he''d feel more stable but who knows. My husband lived a more secure stable life in his 20s with only a wife to support than in his 30s with an ex-wife, child support, loans from grad school etc... I truly wish that I had understood that I needed to break up with him; but I didn''t because I was scared nobody else would want me-I was 30! Horrors!

Wish I was 30 now!!!


If I were in your situation I would forget about his X and find a way to find out precisely what the problem is. $ isn''t a precise answer; its just not something that can be negotiated around. Does he not want to support a stay at home mom? Maybe you can agree to get married by a certain date but wait to start "trying" to have kids a few years. Or save X amount of money before you start to have kids. Maybe you will have to agree to work (do you really want to do that?). Maybe you will need to agree to have only 1 kid and not 2 or3. I think the problem for alot of guys is they want a beaver cleaver Ward and June thing but they know they simply can''t bring home that much bacon. If you can''t be happy with what he provides, or he can''t be happy that way because he''ll feel like a failure if he lives in a shack and drives a 1990 Geo, its nobody''s fault but you could just be wasting your time (a commodity more precious than diamonds if you ask me).

On the otherhand, I think alot of guys feel like meal ticket and like they''re going to be saddled with responsibilities and obligations and their gf just wants to eat bon bons all day. Or worse she''ll have kids and never pay attention to him again. Men get a far better deal if you ask me out of the whole traditional arrangement but if he''s not "on the market" for a woman to do those things for him yet, you can''t (unfortunately) mess with the time space continuum and speed things up for him. He has to feel emptiness and the "is this all there is" feeling; he has to rub spend time with rugrat nephews or friends'' kids and have a good time; he has to see his friends biting the bullet one by one and leaving him behind. How old does he want to be when he wants to have kids. If the answer is I don''t know. Or 40, then maybe the time has come.

I can tell you, I have found someone very special by the way. He says he expects we''ll be married sometime this year. I trust that he''s not lying but then he''s almost 40 has the house, has the job, already bought his midlife crisis convertible. Demographically speaking he''s almost overripe.

Well, that''s my two cents.

Sparkling