Would you consider leaving him?

[appletini]

Erin,

If you do decide to call it quits, I saw that you said you paid for part of the ring, make sure that two of you establish a settlement b/c technically it is community property.

 

[eks6426]

bluechica has a really good point about not proposing to him...I guess I wouldn''t want to wonder either. Also appletini''s comment on getting an agreement on the ring since you paid for it.

By the way, are you willing to tell us how old your bf is? Your post said you were almost 30.

 

[CurlyM-C]

I really feel for you. I lived with my ex for over 5 years, I was sure we were going to get married and then he walked out on me, out of the blue one day. Totally unexpected. I was devasted, but I''m so glad it didn''t work out. I''ve been married a year now to a different guy. And I''m so happy I ended up with a guy who was dying to marry me, rather than one I would have persuaded to get married and then probably spent a decade trying to convince to have kids before divorcing.

I just fear that if you''re not both eager to be married to each other, marriage''s inevitable bumps in the road will be that much harder. I know how hard it is to let go, but love''s not enough to make a happy marriage. You both have to really want it.

I''ve been married all of one year, so if sounds like I''m talking out of a$$, I am. Just my thoughts as a woman who would have married the wrong guy.

 

[CurlyM-C]

Just had to add another 2 cents...not ready to be engaged is quite different thing than not ready for the wedding. If it''s really about finance, you can have a long engagement. But having the ring for 10 months when he knows you''re dying for it?? Sorry, but what a jerk!! That seems so cruel to me. Sounds like buying that ring was buying himself time. Doesn''t want to lose you, doesn''t want to commit. Really, I would advise you to move on. This guy doesn''t deserve you.

 

[Brittany]

I have a few thoughts. This might seem terribly harsh but I don''t intend to hurt you- I just want you to see my perspective.

First, why buy the cow when you get the milk for free.

This guy has everything "going" for him. He never has to work at ANYTHING because you give it to him. You already live with him, probably take care of some of his "life things", probably sleep in the same bed, and YOU HELPED PAY FOR YOUR OWN ENGAGEMENT RING.

Why does he need to ask? You give it to him without him ever even having to beg. He didn''t even have the joy of paying for the ring he was going to get you. He has no reason to propose since you''ve already assumed he is going to and you are planning the wedding.

I got a huge wake-up call from my mom yesterday about how I am basically insulting my FH by not letting him lead. You''re taking the ball out of his court and not letting him be a man and call the shots. Of course he will blow up about hearing about a wedding he hasn''t even approved yet.

So basically, the lesson is- back off. Live for today, not next year. Enjoy your relationship because he could be gone tomorrow.

this was meant in the most sincere way possible, i don''t want any of us to lose our relationships or our beloved men.

brit

 

[sparkling]

Erin,
I also wanted to say that there''s something to be said for not knowing what you have til its gone. If you say you''ll move out by date X without a proposal and you do and you still want to give him an opportunity to come back to you (he misses you, realizes you were the best thing that ever happened to him, he gets enlightened reasonably fast-within a few months) then you can make it easy on you both by not hoping into a new relationship (the old BF will pale in comparision to a new guy and the new guy could also become a slacker down the road but give yourself a chance to be open to him back by not getting infatuated with someone else-otherwise its at least a year to figure out whether a new boyfriend is really really it). Oh and don''t sign a big long lease. You could put it to him, I''m moving out to give you a break and if you change your mind within a few months, please call and we''ll see.

Good luck with all this. It totally sucks being the woman in the waiting regard (even though I have faith in my sweetie, I am waiting too-its annoying; they should have to pay an extra 2 points in diamonds for each month they make us wait

.
I think this forum is aptly named; if love =s a battlefield a nasty case of pre-proposal syndrome is almost like post-traumatic stress disorder. The only cure for either one is getting back out there.

Sparkling

 

[appletini]

Erin one my personal strategies is that I am moving out of my apt (we don''t live together) and moving home with my grandma for awhile, which is about 25 miles away (and a much longer drive during rush hour), so he will definitely be seeing less of me, and I told him that before we are engaged I will only stay with him some on the weekends.

So my two reasons for doing this are 1. save money for the wedding/house/grad school/rainy day and 2. absense makes the heart grow fonder (although the 5,000 mile separation the last few months has helped a lot) so he will be encouraged to not take too long in proposing.

 

[fatafelice]

Erin,
You have been given so much sood advice from both sides of the court that there isn''t much to add. Which direction you take is up to you. Just remember, you know him better than we do. What is your heart telling you? I hope that whatever you decide to do, that it works out for you and you are happy. That is the most important factor here: making sure that you have what is best for you. ((HUGS))

 

[wcitygirl]

Erin ~

I was having similar issues where I didn''t think my boyfriend was taking what I wanted seriously. Well, it was causing a lot of stress (for me) and so I decided that I wasn''t going to invest a ton of energy into this until he came around. I made a plan to spend more time with other people and truly work on things that I wanted to do. I started rekindling some old friendships and making plans to spend a lot of time with them and it really made him think. He started becoming concerned that he didn''t have a place in my life and he wanted to talk about things. He did have some concerns (and they were all a little dumb -- like: I''m afraid to live with someone else -- ok, well, is that going to keep you single forever? No? Ok, well, then let''s talk about what would make you more comfortable.) Now, I''m not suggesting that you play games because that''s dumb and immature, but if he''s not making you happy now -- find something else that will and really focus on yourself and taking care of yourself.

I would agree with other PSers -- let him miss you. In my case, I just felt like my feelings weren''t a high priority and so I was showing him the same indifference he afforded me. And then he really started caring about how I felt once he started feeling a little like I was feeling. Just pull back a little and make yourself priority number one.

If he doesn''t seem to care, I would move out. Bottom line with him is: He is not giving you what you need out of this relationship -- commitment or reassurance about your future and until he can do that, you are uncomfortable with the relationship. (I especially felt this way since I felt like he was giving me mixed msgs.) Those were the exact words I used: I was "uncomfortable in the relationship."

That''s just my two cents. Every situation is different. But, I hope you find the solution that will give you some peace. I don''t know if ten mos is too long, but I would smell something fishy with the ex situation, though. (I am curious if he actually had a ring.) But, that was the same situation as a friend of mine (Her bf dated someone for YEARS w/o proposing) and she and her fiance are getting married in two months. So, I would really focus on YOUR relationship, not on his old one.

But, I do agree about the why buy the cow when the milk''s free. This is the time to a) push your worth and b) stand up for yourself and your worth. Maybe this guy has just become complacent. Remind him why you are great! Just don''t be a shrew about it (I have this tendency) -- just be happy and busy! And at the very least, YOU will be having fun!

Hope this helps! Big hugs to you!!

 

[elepri]

Erin,
first i want to say I'm sorry you're going through this. Although I didn't answer your poll either, I'd say it mainly depends on the difference between "girl soon" and "boy soon." For us it was probably 2-3 months, with me obviously getting there first. Those couple of months kinda sucked and even though it certainly was not long enough to be thinking about moving out, after 10 months, I'd probably start packing my suitcases. You said it yourself so well, you want to be with someone who can't wait for you to be his wife, aren't you settling for much less than that? The other day i found this book in the B&N, called "He's just not that into You." It's written by this guy who gives numerous examples of how very smart women make endless excuses for their men. He had a whole chapter on marriage basically making a point that no man, no matter how clinical his commitment phobia, would decide not to marry a woman he truly loves. Although it's a pretty simplistic book in a way, i think he really has a point there. Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[Patty]

I hate the whole "why should he buy the cow if the milk is free" theory. Women are NOT cows and who says he''s getting you for free? Maybe you are getting HIM for free. What a sexist thing to say...that a man will not marry you if you give him sex.

Having said that, I think your guy has issues. He''s either cruel or incapable of making a commitment. I think you need to set a time limit and be prepared to move out.

 

[Erin]

Last night we went out on a date - Red Lobster if you must know - and no, there was no ring in the cheddar bay biscuit

However, I said absolutely not one word regarding marriage, engagement, ring, future, kids, tuxedo, reception, I didn''t even say the word cake!

HE starts talking about raising kids.

This woman within view was talking to her husband with her mouth full of rock lobster and we both rolled our eyes. He said our kids will never have such bad manners, when they go shopping they won''t hide in the racks, or run the aisles, or throw a fit because we won''t buy them something. I never did it as a child and you said you never did it. No - because both our parents taught us that was unacceptable. Then he went on to say - because I''m so playful - he''ll have to say, Now Johnny, Jane, Mommy, stop running through the house singing at the top of your lungs, I''m on the phone.

There was a lot more to that but it made me realize in retrospect he never ever talks like our future is uncertain. I know he thinks I''m the one and I never should have questioned that. With everyone''s comments it''s given me a lot to think about and it''s helped to put everything in perspective. Don''t get me wrong, I still have to figure out why he''s so hesitant to commit and why he thinks it''s been okay to wait this long with a ring. Those things are still big issues.

I guess I want to tell you all thanks - just like in Kevin''s thread we all seemed to come to a unanimous decision. This one is a little less cut and dry. However, your input has been immeasurably valuable. Being on PS has made me a little more anxious and intolerant than normal - I''m not blaming PS, it''s been a great support but I''ve lead myself to get wrapped up on the anticipation of posting - Hell Must Have Froze Over! In the end, I want him to not only know he wants to marry me but feel ready to marry me - I can''t push that. It happens at different times for everyone, but doesn''t mean he doesn''t KNOW what he wants. Yes, I want him to be excited to have me as his wife - and that will happen when he''s just as ready as I am. That''s worth waiting for. Oh how wonderful that will be.

 

[Dodger Gurl]

Yay!!! I''m glad you''re feeling better Erin!

By the way, I LURVE those cheddar biscuits from Red Lobster!

 

[appletini]

Erin,

I''m glad you are feeling better today and had a good date last night. That''s good that he mentioned your future children on his own.

I love it when my BF makes some sort of commentary about our future out of nowhere. Last night we were having dinner with his parents and started talking about our car insurance policies when we get married...I got big smile.

I hope you have a wonderful weekend and are lucky enough to get Monday off.

hugs!

 

[heartsonfire]

Erin, you're doing the right thing! So proud of you. All this will make your marriage even stronger! So happy you're feeling better!

I too had some bad days with BF. Me leaving in 9 days, we'll be apart for 4 months or so, constantly talking about the engagement and wedding etc. And one of the issue is that I can't make up my mind and I still want to go on looking at rings. I want to try them on and see it on my hand. But BF has enough of it and he thought I was taking the whole thing away from him. Well last night BF said... if you just knew what I've been doing... when ever I told you I need to go to the bank... I'm not at the bank... I've been looking at rings. I just looked at him and pretended I didn't hear what he said. I'll leave it up to him. It will happen, I know it will. And it will happen for you, for me and for everyone who is in waiting. It's all about patience.

Now everytime he will say... I have to go to the bank... SURE!

All we want to do now is enjoy every moment until I leave. And just have a good time together!

 

[Blue824]

Erin - Along with the other girls, I''m glad you''re feeling better. I know how it is to sometimes just wonder if you''re doing the right thing by waiting, and it can be tough to weed through your feelings to come to the right decision.

 

[Croí]

Erin
I have been reading and reading and just BIT my tongue because it truly was (and still is) a decision only you can make.
All I can say is I spent far too many years making excuses for ''why'' my ex. wasn''t ready to commit and now I am sorry I formulated even a one of them because the truth is while there may be plenty of practical obstacles to reaching some goals (like financial ones etc.) there should be no obstacles to the heart part of the question ... which, when it comes right down to it, is the most important part.
When my now FH first mentioned commitment-related things .... with NO prompting or hinting by moi - I used to (invariably) end up in tears.

I am REALLY HAPPY that you feel better now but I still think you need to set your own goals and stick to them.

Someone older and wiser told me once (when back with my ex) that I had two choices - I could carry on and marry him when he was ''finally'' ready and permanently give up part of myself that didn''t suit his ''way'' OR I could walk away and begin anew.
I began anew - and BOY was it one of the hardest things I''ve ever done - but it was the right thing for me. I should have done it a long while earlier but I wasn''t ready/strong enough/seeing the realities then. I have made my peace with the lost time and am completely happy now and so grateful that it didn''t end up being him. I would never have felt validated or worth anything if I had stayed with him.

I think the hard truth is, that we do know - in our deepest heart of hearts - what the answers are but sometimes they are just not the answers we dreamed of and believed in and we just don''t want it to be so.

I really hope this turn-around lasts for you and that your happiness grows but if you slip back, don''t think you can''t start over ..... because you can.

*HUGSTIGHT*
C

 

[Mara]

It's really hard to say as relationships are so complicated...but here are my two cents.

I met Greg when I was 25, we dated for a year. We broke it off after a year due to miscommuncation on both our parts leading to unhappiness. We got back together after 2 months apart, after realizing that we missed each other very much and armed with new communication skills. Dated for a year after that. At this point, we were very happy together and we started talking about marriage. He had been up until that point a die-hard bachelor in his 30s and had some firm ideas on what he wanted to achieve before he got married. It took me a while to convince him that marriage was a partnership that did not include giving up 'dreams' and that the right time was not always when you expect it to be--when you have found love you should be able to make the leap of faith.

One of the biggest things I have seen happen to myself and others is that one partner is more ready than the other. I knew this and did not want to pressure him but I also didn't want to be hanging around waiting for nothing. So I told him, look I know you are the one for me (and that meant alot to both of us, because my previous relationship had been about me not being sure for about 3 years!)...do you know if I am the one for you? Forget marriage, but do you want to spend the rest of your life with me? I gave him 6 months to figure that part out. Not propose, but just say YES to that. Slow steps.

Well that really got him to thinking. I also had told him that I had a mental timeline, I did not intend to hang around around for another 2 years hoping he'd be ready soon and pinning my hopes on clouds. I wanted some progress and I wanted him to show some initiative when it comes to our lives together. I told him I intended to leave if he could not tell me within 6 months if he wanted to spend the rest of his life with me. Part of why I gave him the timeline is that he works best with a known timeframe and if I had just talked about it but not made it serious, he would have floated around as long as I let him. That's just his personality, he thinks about things for a long time.

Within that 6 months he not only decided that the answer was YES but he wanted to start looking for rings as well. So in the end it was a happy ending for me, landing my committed bachelor (who then became more entrenched in engagement happiness than I would have expected), but it could have turned out another way of course.

My bottom line was that I had already spent three fruitless years in the relationship before Greg with both of us not being sure, or being sure then not...and I knew when it was right for me that I wanted it. I wanted to know within a reasonable timeframe if it was right for him too. I knew I was not asking too much and I don't think you are either. It would have been HARD to leave him and a great relationship, but I would have forced myself. After not knowing what I wanted in the previous relationship and frittering away time, knowing was so important to me and I unequivocably required that in return.

It's hard to think about leaving but think about the continued time you may be waiting. If there is no light at the end of the tunnel, what is going on? Are there issues that he can get over, does he even want to? Does he refuse to acknowledge a problem? There are so many questions and communication is SO KEY in a relationship, if we learned nothing else after that short first-year breakup, we learned that. Have you considered counseling?

To me it's a very valuable thing in life to find someone you can see yourself spending the rest of your life with. To think about letting that go is difficult, and you should fight for it...but not if it's a one way street. Good luck!

Edited to add: Just saw your update...congrats on the open lines of communication but I agree, set your goals and deadlines and be firm about what is important to you as well.

 

[Bagpuss]

Lots of nothing ever happens seems to be going on in this relationship.

Just out of curiosity, did you ever get a straight answer as to why he has had the ring for 10 months and still doesn''t feel ready to get engaged?

Good luck - you''re going to need it.

 

[fire&ice]

Ya know me - the devil''s advocate. I''m going to suggest something that may be way off base or close to home. Let''s turn the tables. Perhaps he thinks that YOU are the one that may not be "ready" or "serious". He may interpret your wedding/ring/engagement talk as just that. Guys don''t get the whole "wedding" thing & how giddy we become. Maybe he thinks you just want the "wedding".

Just an out of the box thought. Or he may indeed be fearful of commitment. If the later, you have a difficult decision.

Mine bought the ring & proposed TWO months later. I know it''s not nine months; but, he was waiting for my Birthday (thinking that he was more commited since the ring was a free and clear *gift*. I never expected him to wait. It wasn''t in the proposed time line. I would go back to the jewelry store just to see if *my* ring was returned.

. Oh the things we do.

Anyway.....that was 20+ years ago and many happily married years.

Another thing - how much pressure was put on *before* the ring was purchased?

 

[wcitygirl]

Fire and Ice -- I LOVE that you went back to the store to see if it had been returned!!!! That''s hilarious!!!!

 

[jenwill]

Erin-

I am glad that you are feeling better, but really, a comment about future children did not address the questions that you had when you first posted.Throwing an occasional ''positive'' sign out there- like mentioning future children- does not solve the feelings of hurt that are there- it just coats over them for a tiny amount of time.

He needs to make a comment about what his thoughts are for a SERIOUS timeline. And he needs to make them soon.

Perhaps one approach would be to make an appointment with a relationship counselor- an appointment that lets the 2 of you meet as a couple, but also spend a little bit of time individually talking with counselor. You can address the stress that the uncertainty is causing you, with an impartial 3rd person there. Talk about his past commitment problems causing you fear that you are following in same footsteps. Talk about delays now turning into delays with children etc. He can express what it is that is causing the delay.

Perhaps the perspective of a person not involved in relationship will help you BOTH see the others points of view...who knows- some perfectly valid reasons may come out on his part, and he may be able to see through another persons interpretation how much this is hurting you.

I am 34, so I know the pressure of wanting to have kids soon. But, if T holds onto the ring (he got it at the beginning of this month) for 10 months without a proposal (that would be at just over 3 years of dating) I WILL be taking us to a counselor, and if not satisified with the outcome, I WILL leave. I love him, but an unsatisfactory reason for hurting me that much would result in me realizing that he doesn''t love ME that much, and that I need to go find someone who will reciprocate- being loved and appreciated is the best feeling in the world...and we should get that feeling daily from the ones that we love. I know T would say ''well if you loved me you would stay without a marriage''- and to that I would say....''if you loved ME, you wouldn''t want me to go against what I feel is necessary for a long term relationship- and marriage/children is what is important to me.''
At that point we would have to decide that either we both work towards a MUTUALLY SATISFYING compromise, or we walk away from each other and find someone that can love us for what we want/need/are in this life.

As women, we have an amazing ability to make excuses for those that we care for- to try to ''fix'' things, to try to make everyone else happy....and this hurts us in the long run. If you treated your boyfriend''s feelings the way he is treating yours, he most likely wouldn''t even consider staying in the relationship- why should your feelings be any less valuable? If he worked for a company that treated him this way...dangle a big raise in front of him and tell him that it is coming .....but everytime he brought it up they told him that his bringing it up will make it take that much longer to get it....he would go crazy after a bit, and probably eventually walk away from the potential ''big'' raise to find something else that has better potential. Because he has to plan his life on what is achievable now, as opposed to ''sometime''. As do you.

Hopefully you and he can work this all out and move forward to a happy life together with a wonderful family...but whatever happens, my thoughts as a fellow lady in waiting are with you. Sorry this is so long.......

 

[cnspotts]

Ladies there has been some great insight in this thread. Like so many have said and I agree that the choice you make to either stay or go has to come from you, within yourself and your heart. I completely believe we already know the answer to our own questions, we''re either looking for validation of the answer or we really don''t want to be responsible for that choice as in we dont'' want to choose. Or maybe we''re wanting someone to help ease the pain in choosing our wrong answer which we''re afraid is actually our Right answer.

Walking away is so hard to do and only you can know if you make the right choice in that.

Starting over is scary. It means investing more time, love, energy and our heart again and that uncertainty is scary. Plus everytime we walk away from a relationship a little bit of that pure naive hope goes with it. The world''s reality becomes a bit harsher and less romantic and all the while our "timeline" is ticking away.

If you do walk away then walk away with a plan in mind. Like any major purchase or investment have goal and a means to get there. They''re not kidding when they say "love is blind" so why is that? Go into it with all your senses on "GO" and pay attention.

I am definitely not one to stay in a relationship without some definition and concrete guidlines. I need those to function. I know this about me so I cannot be with a man that does not give me that. I need a man that does not waiver from "the plan" without consulting me. That''s not asking too much and it does not have to take away the romance or the surprise it just let''s me be reassured that we''re on the same page in the same book.

Also there should be NO hesitation on his part, he''s either with you or not. I don''t believe in coaxing a man along in a relationship. I call that the "you''ll do for now" guy and I am Not his girl. There is someone out there that WANTS to be with you as much as you want to be with him and he cannot wait to start his life with you.

Sorry this got so long, I hope I made sense.