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Worried my diamond might be second-hand

enotsreve

Rough_Rock
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Dec 22, 2015
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I bought a ring for my girlfriend for Christmas yesterday at the mall (Helzberg Diamonds). They had a tax free day for wearing an ugly Christmas sweater which I thought was pretty funny. Anyways I got this and a Scott Kay setting here:
https://www.helzberg.com/product/1-4ct+tw+diamond+engagement+ring+1727247.do?sortby=bestSellers&catId=3133&from=fn

The 1ctw diamond was $6499, but I was able to get them to reduce the price by $800, so my total out the door price was a little over $7000. I'm very worried however that my new diamond is second-hand, especially knowing that Helzberg offers a diamond trade-up program. The reason I think this is because the GIA report is from 2014. Should this be a concern?

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?reportno=6167115044&weight=1.01&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&pagename=GIA%2FDispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547
 

ADN

Shiny_Rock
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enotsreve|1450767386|3964692 said:
I'm very worried however that my new diamond is second-hand, especially knowing that Helzberg offers a diamond trade-up program. The reason I think this is because the GIA report is from 2014. Should this be a concern?

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?reportno=6167115044&weight=1.01&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&pagename=GIA%2FDispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

Hi - I wouldn't be too worried about a report from 2014. It could have been sitting in the diamond cutters inventory for awhile before it sold - then it could have sat in the diamond merchants inventory for awhile before it sold - then it could have sat in the retailers inventory for awhile before they sold it to you...a year can go pretty quickly in the life of a diamond :)
I don't deal in second hand goods, so I can't say for sure, but I would imagine there would have to be some sort of disclosure laws that would have to be followed by the retailer. However,if you really want to know if the diamond is second-hand, just ask the retailer you bought it from.
Hope this helps.
 

Gypsy

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Honestly if you ask Helzberg they probably won't know. It's quite common, from what I understand, that diamonds are re-papered and sold as new or recut and sold as new. It's not really something to be worried about unless there is damage to the stone and it wasn't re-papered to reflect that. And a good appraiser can help you with that. Where are you located?

The diamond is a pretty good one from a numbers perspective. It's a 60/60 style stone with a crown angle that is as low as you want to go, and the pavillion angle is a good match for it. As long as it's eyeclean and matches the lab report you are fine. The inclusions should be easy to match to the lab report with a 10x loupe. I would ask the appraiser about the knot and the natural.


You should get it appraised and insured before your return policy runs out, just in case. After that, just enjoy it. You did good. Scott Kay has nice quality stuff. My wedding band is from them and it's a mack truck in terms of durability.
 

AdaBeta27

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I think most of the Pricescope vendors will send a traded-in diamond (or one they bought outright from a private individual or estate) to GIA or AGS to be re-graded. Sometimes wearing a diamond causes abrasion to it that can lower the clarity grade compared to its original grade, or can cause minute chips or other blemishes. Vendors have the stone regraded and possibly also repolished and then put it back out for sale with the new paper. It's not sold as a used diamond in that case. As Gypsy said, have the diamond appraised to see if it matches the report that came with it. There probably are a lot of preowned diamonds out there, and some are bound to be trade-ins or diamonds that the owners sold. All diamonds are millions of years old anyhow. All antique Old European Cut diamonds are certainly "used" diamonds, and Pricescope loves them.

There are vendors (possibly all of them on here) who can source a diamond with complete documentation of the source from cutter to buyer, if it's important to you to get one that is "new." There was somebody on here years ago who wanted a diamond that had never been owned or worn, and there was a discussion of how to get one. But I don't remember the details.
 

ADN

Shiny_Rock
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AdaBeta27|1450836706|3965099 said:
I think most of the Pricescope vendors will send a traded-in diamond (or one they bought outright from a private individual or estate) to GIA or AGS to be re-graded

...especially if it has an EGL cert... :lol:
 

Gypsy

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AdaBeta27|1450836706|3965099 said:
I think most of the Pricescope vendors will send a traded-in diamond (or one they bought outright from a private individual or estate) to GIA or AGS to be re-graded. Sometimes wearing a diamond causes abrasion to it that can lower the clarity grade compared to its original grade, or can cause minute chips or other blemishes. Vendors have the stone regraded and possibly also repolished and then put it back out for sale with the new paper. It's not sold as a used diamond in that case. As Gypsy said, have the diamond appraised to see if it matches the report that came with it. There probably are a lot of preowned diamonds out there, and some are bound to be trade-ins or diamonds that the owners sold. All diamonds are millions of years old anyhow. All antique Old European Cut diamonds are certainly "used" diamonds, and Pricescope loves them.

There are vendors (possibly all of them on here) who can source a diamond with complete documentation of the source from cutter to buyer, if it's important to you to get one that is "new." There was somebody on here years ago who wanted a diamond that had never been owned or worn, and there was a discussion of how to get one. But I don't remember the details.


I do. Basically the gist of it was buy from BGD or Infinity or WF, vendors who work with cutting houses directly themselves, and make sure you state that as being of importance to you and work with them to get a 'new' diamond.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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enotsreve|1450767386|3964692 said:
Should this be a concern?

If 'used' diamonds are a bad thing then be sure to put into your will that, upon your death, yours is to be smashed indo dust with a sledge hammer.
 

WinkHPD

Ideal_Rock
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If you want to know for sure, you must work with a vendor who either cuts all of the diamonds that they sell, or selects only from sources that they trust to know. Then you must ask the vendor if this is one of the diamonds that they have traded in and gotten a new report on to assure that it is one that has not been worn.

The date on the report will tell you nothing, as a brand new report could have been a traded in diamond that was sent for an updated report to be sure that there was no damage.

Several years ago I had a client who traded up a total of four or five times. (Pretty sure it was five times.) Each time she announced on Pricescope that she was trading one in I would get four or five calls for the diamond that she was trading in by ladies who had been wanting to buy it before it was purchased. Obviously, none of the buyers had any compulsion against owning a pre-owned diamond.

I think that most of us in the trade will have no issues telling you when a diamond has been pre-owned.

However, in a chain store you are working with people who receive the jewelry and sell the jewelry. They will have no way of knowing whether or not the diamond was pre-owned. Few, if any of them will buy back at any price, so it is not likely to be one that they bought, and any that they took in trade would most likely be sent back to corporate and repurposed from there.

It is entirely possible that in the large parcels that big stores buy for setting up jewelry that many of the diamonds were purchased from dealers who are happy to buy and resell pre-owned diamonds, especially in the under a carat diamonds that are not normally papered in those stores.

It is an entirely normal business practice and not at all frowned upon. The big stores, Zales, Kays, etc have to buy HUGE parcels of quarters, thirds, etc. for their jewelers to set. What they care about is that the diamonds have followed the Kimberly Accords and that the grading and size variances are within the parameters promised. There is no way they will know, or care, about "was it pre-owned."

Wink
 

diamondseeker2006

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I wouldn't be concerned about whether the diamond has ever been used before because no one can ever tell that about a diamond they buy as others have pointed out. But I would be concerned about a knot being the primary inclusion and it is right on the table of the diamond. That might be why that diamond hasn't sold. If you rub your fingernail across the table of the stone, can you feel the knot? If you shine a light on the surface of the table, can you see the knot? One of the jewelers or appraisers here recently warned someone that a knot can fall out sometimes. I would not be happy with a knot right on the table of the diamond. I'd return it and start over. You might want to post the GIA reports of other diamonds they offer you before buying.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/do-knots-cause-durability-issues.134601/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/do-knots-cause-durability-issues.134601/[/URL]
 

Gypsy

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diamondseeker2006|1450850329|3965191 said:
I wouldn't be concerned about whether the diamond has ever been used before because no one can ever tell that about a diamond they buy as others have pointed out. But I would be concerned about a knot being the primary inclusion and it is right on the table of the diamond. That might be why that diamond hasn't sold. If you rub your fingernail across the table of the stone, can you feel the knot? If you shine a light on the surface of the table, can you see the knot? One of the jewelers or appraisers here recently warned someone that a knot can fall out sometimes. I would not be happy with a knot right on the table of the diamond. I'd return it and start over. You might want to post the GIA reports of other diamonds they offer you before buying.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/do-knots-cause-durability-issues.134601/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/do-knots-cause-durability-issues.134601/[/URL]


Not to disagree. But he got a very nice price on a diamond that he liked, that has good numbers. I wouldn't advise to return it wholesale just like that based on the grading plot. I would have him take it to an appraiser, and as I mentioned earlier, ask about the knot and natural. If the appraiser isn't concerned about the location of the knot or its durability, looking at the stone, there is no reason he shouldn't keep it.

It does need to be looked at, I agree, and before his return period. But I don't think there is enough information to advise him to return it just yet.
 

diamondseeker2006

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Gypsy, I don't disagree with the idea of the independent appraisal in theory, but in practice, many of us do not have one local. If he has to get the ring insured, then send to Neil or another recommended appraiser, he has put extra money into shipping, insurance, appraisal fees, and may or may not even have a diamond he can keep. I don't think an appraiser will make a guarantee on what may or may not happen with a surface reaching inclusion, either. But if he has a local independent appraiser (for the OP...one who sells no jewelry) who is really good, it might be worth the appraisal fee. I was just recommending what I would do, and I would never buy an SI stone with a surface reaching knot on the table or a feather that is surface reaching. Too many other good diamonds out there.

I was really just checking back in to see if he saw this part of the discussion. He at least needs to understand the potential problem.
 

enotsreve

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Thanks for all the replies! I don't feel so bad anymore about the fact it might be second-hand. I just wasn't sure what to make of the report date. I'm used to buying milk - you want the freshest date, you know.

Regarding the knot in the table, I actually can see it about 30% of the time from atop when a light is shining through the pavilion, but not when light is pointing top down. It doesn't really bother me since it's not always visible, but I guess it can't be considered "eye-clean". Do people keep diamonds that are not eye clean, or do I need to return this? Otherwise it's quite perfect.
 

Gypsy

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Oooooh.

Yeah. And there you go. The reason for the date of the lab report. And for the price discount. It's not eyeclean.

Yes, most people want a stone that is eyeclean.

I personally don't know anyone who would want a stone with a visible inclusion. The one person I knew that had one upgraded a while back and her new stone does not.

So, yeah. I'm going to suggest returning it. You can get a lovely G Si1 that is eyeclean, will be perfectly white, and well cut for your budget.

And since you like 60/60 styles stones we can focus on that and save you a bit of money.
 

diamondseeker2006

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Yes, that definitely solves the issue. I can't imagine buying a ring diamond that is not 100% eyeclean. As Gypsy said, we can help you decide on a better one this time.
 

Gypsy

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AdaBeta27

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I'm one of the people on here who has not 100% eyeclean diamonds. I bought one spectacular SI2 that is eyeclean probably 98% of the time but if I tilt it and look at it just right, the dark crystal inclusion stands out. But I don't care. The diamond is beautiful, big enough, and affordable. The inclusion doesn't bother me, and other people are not going to get to inspect it unless I offer it to them. Actually, I wore the diamond 2 days before I even noticed that I could occasionally see the inclusion. I'm willing to give up eyeclean for performance, color, size, and price. I see that as better value for my dollar. But other people see it as imperfection. Everyone has his or her priorities, and not everyone has the same.
 

WinkHPD

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enotsreve|1450934949|3965628 said:
Thanks for all the replies! I don't feel so bad anymore about the fact it might be second-hand. I just wasn't sure what to make of the report date. I'm used to buying milk - you want the freshest date, you know.

Regarding the knot in the table, I actually can see it about 30% of the time from atop when a light is shining through the pavilion, but not when light is pointing top down. It doesn't really bother me since it's not always visible, but I guess it can't be considered "eye-clean". Do people keep diamonds that are not eye clean, or do I need to return this? Otherwise it's quite perfect.

Many people would not, but many people gladly do because it can have a lower price even compared to others of the same paper grade. Mostly it comes down to you and YOUR eyes. Does the fact that you have to shine light through from the bottom to see the inclusion mean the the rest of the time you are happy with the diamond? Have you looked at enough other diamonds to know whether or not you would prefer a diamond that is cut differently to have a "different" look to it in terms of sparkle and brilliance?

Is the price you paid important enough to forgo looking for a diamond that you would like, or love, better? If you are happy with this one, this last question is moot. However if you are uneasy, then you might want to return the one you are uneasy with and spend some time learning more about this treasure for your wife that you are looking for.

Just my thoughts on a Christmas Eve afternoon.

Wink
 

solgen

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The needle inclusion under the table would also not make it eye clean but then again at 20x it stands out more prominently.

There's a video of it here https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R101-EE847P

I'm thinking that the inclusions are what have kept people form buying it and it probably isn't pre-owned but who really knows.

While I would pass on it that's just a reflection of my preferences. Doesn't mean it's a bad diamond and if the inclusions are acceptable to you then that's all that really matters.
 

diamondseeker2006

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solgen|1451018127|3966012 said:
The needle inclusion under the table would also not make it eye clean but then again at 20x it stands out more prominently.

There's a video of it here https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R101-EE847P

I'm thinking that the inclusions are what have kept people form buying it and it probably isn't pre-owned but who really knows.

While I would pass on it that's just a reflection of my preferences. Doesn't mean it's a bad diamond and if the inclusions are acceptable to you then that's all that really matters.

Great find! And I agree, this stone is not eyeclean and likely the inclusion will show from the side as well.
 

Gypsy

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diamondseeker2006|1451021092|3966029 said:
solgen|1451018127|3966012 said:
The needle inclusion under the table would also not make it eye clean but then again at 20x it stands out more prominently.

There's a video of it here https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R101-EE847P

I'm thinking that the inclusions are what have kept people form buying it and it probably isn't pre-owned but who really knows.

While I would pass on it that's just a reflection of my preferences. Doesn't mean it's a bad diamond and if the inclusions are acceptable to you then that's all that really matters.

Great find! And I agree, this stone is not eyeclean and likely the inclusion will show from the side as well.


Agree. And great sleuthing.
 

enotsreve

Rough_Rock
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Hey everyone! Thanks again for the replies. I decided to keep the diamond. The inclusion doesn't really bother me.

I was finally able to take a high resolution picture with my camera and macro adaptor.

I remind you, this is from a MALL chain store. Not bad!

Edit: Anyone know how to post a picture in high resolution?

dsc01577__1_.jpg
 

diamondseeker2006

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Well, we tried to give you good advice, but that's about all we can do! Hope she doesn't care about having an eyeclean diamond!
 

cinnamonstick

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Go with what you and your girlfriend like. My first diamond was definitely pre-owned because I bought it at a hockshop (of sorts) that my mom knew the owner of! Let me tell you that sucker was my good luck trying. I'm still married to this day and it took me through two success IVFs! My good luck charm! I'm not one for superstition but I do believe in making your own history.

As I thought some diamonds or second hand maybe 3x 0% on the market? Of course I could be making this up but I did think there was a large portion.


I just bought a new diamond and it has a GIA from 2013. I was slightly "worried". I couldnt decide if it sat around because no one wanted it (SI2) or somebody traded it in, or what. Frankly I don't give a hoot either way because the diamond is beautiful. :) Works for me either way.

If you can see something from the side possibly do a setting that will block the side view. Many options out there :) :) Bezel will take care of any side view....
 
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