Winza vs. Burma- Ruby Pricing

[Justin_Cutter]

Just received a quote from a dealer on a 4.10ct Unheated Winza Ruby that I am interested in. The quote was $120,000 per carat. I was expecting $15,000-$30,000 per carat.

Perhaps I am the only one but I was not aware that Winza material was commanding Burma Prices. Does anyone else have experience with this? Any input is appreciated.

Thanks
~Justin

 

[pajero_exceed]

I know high quality winza rubies are very expensive because of the brilliancy flash and high transparency, but I am not sure about the price.

 

[chrono]

Some Winza rubies are incredibly well coloured, coupled with being untreated and extremely clean, and command high prices. Add the 4 carat weight and price goes up exponentially too.

 

[Justin_Cutter]

Some Winza rubies are incredibly well coloured, coupled with being untreated and extremely clean, and command high prices. Add the 4 carat weight and price goes up exponentially too.

All that I know... I guess I just wasn't expecting Unheated Burma Ruby prices. The stone is beautiful and I have not seen its equal in clarity and color without treatment. I guess that makes it worth the extremely high price.

~Justin

 

[chrono]

Yup, you got it. Sounds like you saw a very fine one which explains the price.

 

[Justin_Cutter]

Yup, you got it. Sounds like you saw a very fine one which explains the price.

Thanks Chrono,
Yes it is. Unfortunately it doesn't look like I will be adding it to my collection.
~Justin

 

[T L]

I would personally never buy an uber expensive ruby without looking at a top quality one on person, whether you have to go to a museum, or some lavish auction house, to do so.

Until you've seen one, most "top quality" reds look great.

 

[minousbijoux]

Justin: fwiw, I would've shared your shock. It appears that there is little price differential at the highest quality level, but lower down, name/origin counts. Sorry about that for you.

 

[chrono]

You can buy a huge bungalow or mini mansion for the price of that ruby.

TL,
There's always the choice of having an expert appraiser look at it or getting the full AGL Prestige report. Either way, at the asking price, the cost of such service or paperwork is a drop in the bucket by comparison.

 

[T L]

You can buy a huge bungalow or mini mansion for the price of that ruby.

TL,
There's always the choice of having an expert appraiser look at it or getting the full AGL Prestige report. Either way, at the asking price, the cost of such service or paperwork is a drop in the bucket by comparison.

I would honestly go by AGL with Chris Smith in that case. He's seen the best of the best, and I can't think of another expert in rubies that I would go to, although there may be some others.

Richard Hughes perhaps???

 

[chrono]

Yes, I agree on both counts.

 

[Justin_Cutter]

You can buy a huge bungalow or mini mansion for the price of that ruby.

TL,
There's always the choice of having an expert appraiser look at it or getting the full AGL Prestige report. Either way, at the asking price, the cost of such service or paperwork is a drop in the bucket by comparison.

I would honestly go by AGL with Chris Smith in that case. He's seen the best of the best, and I can't think of another expert in rubies that I would go to, although there may be some others.

Richard Hughes perhaps???

Absolutely! Any of my "nicer" purchases will always receive a Prestige Report with Grading by Chris. I have seen some very nice stones but I don't and probably never will hold a candle to the stones that Chris has seen. I trust his opinion, and value his advice greatly. He really helped me have peace of mind with my wife's engagement ring.

~Justin

 

[Justin_Cutter]

Justin: fwiw, I would've shared your shock. It appears that there is little price differential at the highest quality level, but lower down, name/origin counts. Sorry about that for you.

Thanks, Its ok maybe someday one will come along that I can afford . I would probably settle for a really nice red spinel as well. My problem is that both myself and my wife love large stones haha!

~Justin

 

[T L]

Ruby is the only major gemstone I don't own because I can't afford the color I want in a minimally treated, or untreated stone. I'm really picky about red though.

 

[Dioptase]

Is the stone a square cushion by any chance?

Extremely fine and large rubies are scarce and will command high prices. Mozambique is now producing gorgeous stones, it might be your chance. Unless you want to buy a stone with a specific origin?

 

[Justin_Cutter]

Is the stone a square cushion by any chance?

Extremely fine and large rubies are scarce and will command high prices. Mozambique is now producing gorgeous stones, it might be your chance. Unless you want to buy a stone with a specific origin?

Dioptase you caught me haha. Yes it is your 4.10ct Ruby. It is beautiful and I wish I could afford it!

~Justin

 

[pregcurious]

Wow, that is expensive.

 

[LD]

Some Winza rubies are incredibly well coloured, coupled with being untreated and extremely clean, and command high prices. Add the 4 carat weight and price goes up exponentially too.

All that I know... I guess I just wasn't expecting Unheated Burma Ruby prices. The stone is beautiful and I have not seen its equal in clarity and color without treatment. I guess that makes it worth the extremely high price.

~Justin

It's all about colour. Location CAN be important but a fabulous Winza may well outstrip a good Burma. This is what people tend to overlook and focus on location too much (I know you're not clearly)!

 

[Dioptase]

Hi Justin,

It's a stunning stone indeed... and you only have seen the pictures

 

[LD]

Hi Justin,

It's a stunning stone indeed... and you only have seen the pictures

Dioptase - if this is a stone that you have for sale then you are sailing VERY close to the wind by commenting on it.

 

[rocku]

Love to see that picture

 

[minousbijoux]

Couple of questions for you Justin. Have you seen the stone in person and does it have an orange modifier, because it looks like it in the photo. I ask that because I would think if it did have an orange modifier, it would not go for the astronomical amount per carat, lol!

Also, I'm wondering if you have seen it in person if you know where the likes of us mere mortals can see their stones in person as well...thanks.

 

[Justin_Cutter]

Couple of questions for you Justin. Have you seen the stone in person and does it have an orange modifier, because it looks like it in the photo. I ask that because I would think if it did have an orange modifier, it would not go for the astronomical amount per carat, lol!

Also, I'm wondering if you have seen it in person if you know where the likes of us mere mortals can see their stones in person as well...thanks.

I have not seen the stone in person unfortunately, I believe that Gems by Nomads has offices in New York and Bangkok Thailand.
If the price was within my budget I probably would have booked a flight for New York to see it in person before I forked out the money. I am sure Nomads has a return policy in the event that I didn't like the Ruby, but its a good excuse for me to go to New York! Haha!

I am sure the gem shows are the other place to view there material. I unfortunately missed them in Tucson.

I agree the stone does look to have a orange modifier. Not necessarily a bad thing if moderate but I would need to see it in person to know for sure.

~Justin

 

[Dioptase]

Hi Justin,

It's a stunning stone indeed... and you only have seen the pictures

Dioptase - if this is a stone that you have for sale then you are sailing VERY close to the wind by commenting on it.

What I merely wanted to say is that nothing can be better than seeing a gemstone with your own eyes; not just this gem in particular, but all of them. Photographs can give a good idea but having a stone in your hand is a whole different expericence and pleasure.

 

[Justin_Cutter]

Dioptase, I totally agree! Nothing like seeing a stone in person.
~Justin

 

[chrono]

For that price, it is a given that the ruby must be seen in person before purchase.

 

[Justin_Cutter]

For that price, it is a given that the ruby must be seen in person before purchase.

Absolutely! I could never imagine spending even a 10th of the cost of this Ruby and not seeing the stone in person.
~Justin

 

[LD]

Justin - I'm going to be honest because this is an exceptionally expensive stone.

Like Minou I see a lot of orange. For me, at that price, it's an absolute deal breaker and I would walk away. Personally I dislike orange in rubies intensely. Clearly this is a personal preference but if they have any others with maybe a pink or purple modifier do you think it might be worth asking to see those too?

 

[Art Nouveau]

Just like TL, I have a lot of nice color stones already, but a nice Burmese ruby is one that I do not have. I have searched for years, but have not been able to find a good one that I can afford. However, I have seen a lot of top quality ones. Justin, unless the picture you posted is not representative of the real thing, I don't see how this ruby can justifiy a price of $120,000 per carat. I would pass and keep looking. I am not sure how much the price jumps at 4 carats, but around 3+ carats, I have seen nice African rubies at $10,000 to $20,000 per carat.

AN

 

[Justin_Cutter]

Justin - I'm going to be honest because this is an exceptionally expensive stone.

Like Minou I see a lot of orange. For me, at that price, it's an absolute deal breaker and I would walk away. Personally I dislike orange in rubies intensely. Clearly this is a personal preference but if they have any others with maybe a pink or purple modifier do you think it might be worth asking to see those too?

I agree there does seem to be a good amount of orange in the stone. No worries I would never pay that price for this stone. At $120,000 per carat I want to see pure red and nothing else haha! I guess that was part of my shock when I received the quote. I DO think the stone is beautiful and unique but I don't think its worth the price. This is all based strictly off the picture of course.

Just like TL, I have a lot of nice color stones already, but a nice Burmese ruby is one that I do not have. I have searched for years, but have not been able to find a good one that I can afford. However, I have seen a lot of top quality ones. Justin, unless the picture you posted is not representative of the real thing, I don't see how this ruby can justifiy a price of $120,000 per carat. I would pass and keep looking. I am not sure how much the price jumps at 4 carats, but around 3+ carats, I have seen nice African rubies at $10,000 to $20,000 per carat.

AN

Thanks for the encouragement AN! Its nice to see others have found some nice rubies at affordable prices.

Here is another stone that I am currently looking at. I am not going to say the vendor name so if someone recognizes the stone please don't mention the vendors name here. The price difference is exponential. This a Burmese Ruby with heat only. This is a indoor picture sent to me by the dealer.

~Justin