Why Would One Choose MMD Over Real?

[MTHealthyLiving]

I recently had an acquaintance come to me about finding a diamond upgrade for her engagement ring.
I told her first NOT to go back to the chain she originally bought the ring, that a much better quality diamond can be found for less than what chain stores sell them.
I gave her the link to the Blue Nile 4C's, which is very simple and easy to understand, Whiteflash, Pricescope, and reputable jewelers in our area.
Yesterday she told me she ended up going back to the chain and buying a Man Made Diamond, 1.08 carats.

Aside from the fact that MMDs don't have the environmental impact that mined diamonds do, what is the appeal?

From what I have found, they really aren't saving any $$$, and they are more yellow than mined diamonds.

What am I missing?

 

[OoohShiny]

MMDs can be colourless, yellow, blue, pink... so they are not automatically more yellow than Mined diamonds.

I'm at work so can't really do any trawling right now, but there have been several threads recently where MMDs are discussed in terms of benefits / differences to Mined / perceptions of them / values now and in the future / etc. Have a look through this section of the forum and/or put 'MMD' in the search tool at the top and see what comes up!

 

[MTHealthyLiving]

MMDs can be colourless, yellow, blue, pink... so they are not automatically more yellow than Mined diamonds.

I'm at work so can't really do any trawling right now, but there have been several threads recently where MMDs are discussed in terms of benefits / differences to Mined / perceptions of them / values now and in the future / etc. Have a look through this section of the forum and/or put 'MMD' in the search tool at the top and see what comes up!

I did some looking through Pricescope and most everything I came up with was really old. Like as far back as 2003. Lol!!! So maybe things have changes in MMDs since then? But the info I got from there was that it (at that time) was impossible to produce white, colorless diamonds due to nitrogen levels and time.

I guess my question is... Would you chose a MMD over a real diamond?

 

[Snowdrop13]

I’m not sure we’re supposed to discuss non-natural stones here- there’s a separate area of the forum for that, isn’t there? You could ask the mods to move this?

 

[MTHealthyLiving]

I’m not sure we’re supposed to discuss non-natural stones here- there’s a separate area of the forum for that, isn’t there? You could ask the mods to move this?

I wasn't able to find an actual forum, just a few closed threads.

 

[PintoBean]

https://www.pricescope.com/community/forums/laboratory-grown-diamonds-man-made-diamonds-mmd.60/

 

[MTHealthyLiving]

https://www.pricescope.com/community/forums/laboratory-grown-diamonds-man-made-diamonds-mmd.60/

Ahh! Thank you! I just wasn't using the proper search words!

 

[OFY]

The problem with banning discussion of MMD and sims on this board is that the other dedicated boards don't get the same level traffic and the same posters - I don't think the trade members and very experienced prosumers here visit those boards nearly as often (or at all). I don't see how this discussion could really take off on other boards the same way it could on rocky talky and it's a shame because this is an interesting topic. I'm interested in MMD but stopped visiting that board there were never any new posts.

Banning a topic from RT is practically the same as banning it altogether

 

[MTHealthyLiving]

The problem with banning discussion of MMD and sims on this board is that the other dedicated boards don't get the same level traffic and the same posters - I don't think the trade members and very experienced prosumers here visit those boards nearly as often (or at all). I don't see how this discussion could really take off on other boards the same way it could on rocky talky and it's a shame because this is an interesting topic. I'm interested in MMD but stopped visiting that board there were never any new posts.

Banning a topic from RT is practically the same as banning it altogether

My opinion is that there is a bit of bias on the MMD boards (or other boards) for that matter. Many of posts in the MMD boards seem to be in favor of the MMD. I would really like some good hard facts as well as true negatives about them, and why or why not people do or don't chose them.
I'm a HUGE researcher though, so I want all sides and opinions.

 

[daneshpastry]

I don't understand this forum's obsession with avoiding the discussion of lab-grown gems. They're a reality in the marketplace and shouldn't be drowned in a subforum.

 

[MTHealthyLiving]

I don't understand this forum's obsession with avoiding the discussion of lab-grown gems. They're a reality in the marketplace and shouldn't be drowned in a subforum.

I agree! I think it's very hard as a consumer when the data on one side or the other is hard to find.
I think this would be a great place to compare the two.

 

[doberman]

Well it's a shame she went back to the chain jewelry store, but it's her money to waste. I do see people using the term man-made diamonds to refer to cz, which makes things even more confusing. People who buy "real" MMDs cite environmental damage(which I find reasonable) and the whole blood diamond thing.

They've been getting better at diamond manufacturing, there are all colors from D to Fancy and the cost difference can be substantial - particularly with Fancy color stones. I'm not turned on by a lab created stone because I like real rocks that took millions of years to form. But they seem to be increasing in popularity.

 

[MTHealthyLiving]

Don't get me wrong, I will probably always be a mined diamond girl, but at this point, it's just my personal bias because I truly want authentic on pretty much everything. I know it's a bit crazy, but even if no one else can tell the diamond isn't mined, I WOULD KNOW, and that would drive me insane. Plus, I feel like I am not educated about things if I just buy without research. Like the gal I was talking about that sparked this thread. I was both irritated that I spent the time educating her on real diamonds, and she did exactly the opposite, and at the same time can't help thinking she got ripped off because of her lack of interest in research. And maybe MMDs are great, but buying anything from a chain or maul jeweler is automatically going to cost you more.

 

[MTHealthyLiving]

Well it's a shame she went back to the chain jewelry store, but it's her money to waste. I do see people using the term man-made diamonds to refer to cz, which makes things even more confusing. People who buy "real" MMDs cite environmental damage(which I find reasonable) and the whole blood diamond thing.

They've been getting better at diamond manufacturing, there are all colors from D to Fancy and the cost difference can be substantial - particularly with Fancy color stones. I'm not turned on by a lab created stone because I like real rocks that took millions of years to form. But they seem to be increasing in popularity.

Yes, I can see how easily someone could be ripped off in the MMD/CZ chaos. I've seen many thread where people were being pitched CZ's as lab created diamonds. I think it would just be easier and more practical to go with mined. The colored lab created diamonds seem to be substantially cheaper, but the lab created diamonds don't appear to be saving much in the way of $$$. At least not from what I've seen so far.

 

[BeekeeperBetty]

I've been jonesing for a lab made diamond for a while. Being kind of a science nerd, I think they're a very cool thing. Especially the fancy colors. I'll never be able to afford an earth mined blue diamond, and the irradiated have a teal color that doesn't appeal to me. But the lab grown are a very nice grey blue that I like very much.

I think they have their place, personally.

 

[daneshpastry]

Don't get me wrong, I will probably always be a mined diamond girl, but at this point, it's just my personal bias because I truly want authentic on pretty much everything. I know it's a bit crazy, but even if no one else can tell the diamond isn't mined, I WOULD KNOW, and that would drive me insane. Plus, I feel like I am not educated about things if I just buy without research. Like the gal I was talking about that sparked this thread. I was both irritated that I spent the time educating her on real diamonds, and she did exactly the opposite, and at the same time can't help thinking she got ripped off because of her lack of interest in research. And maybe MMDs are great, but buying anything from a chain or maul jeweler is automatically going to cost you more.

I guess we (those who would frequent a diamond forum) care far more about the details than your everyday consumer - they just want to hear BIG and FLAWLESS. Nothing else matters.

I happen to be a big perfume nerd - and when I start talking about quality of ingredients and originality, etc., I can see people's eyes start to wander. At that point I just shut up and let them enjoy the simple things in life. I'm almost envious of those who don't care.

 

[OFY]

I don't understand this forum's obsession with avoiding the discussion of lab-grown gems. They're a reality in the marketplace and shouldn't be drowned in a subforum.

RT is an amazing resource for helping newbies find the best cut quality for their money when they shop for a diamond. It's a shame that if someone decides they want to go the man-made route, they don't have the option of posting here and getting guidance from the experts.

 

[HappyNewLife]

My friend has a moissanite (which I know isn't MMD), and I swear, for $2K all-in she sure does have a sparkler.

That said, I'm a snob about diamonds being real diamonds and don't regret this enormously expensive piece of carbon on my finger

 

[daneshpastry]

My friend has a moissanite (which I know isn't MMD), and I swear, for $2K all-in she sure does have a sparkler.

That said, I'm a snob about diamonds being real diamonds and don't regret this enormously expensive piece of carbon on my finger

Aren't virtually all moissanites man-made?

 

[AprilBaby]

Yes moissanite is made in a lab. MmD are supposed to be about 20% less than mined diamonds. Maybe she decided to trade up and spend 2x more and the lab diamond was the best she could do for the size she wanted.

 

[MTHealthyLiving]

I guess we (those who would frequent a diamond forum) care far more about the details than your everyday consumer - they just want to hear BIG and FLAWLESS. Nothing else matters.

I happen to be a big perfume nerd - and when I start talking about quality of ingredients and originality, etc., I can see people's eyes start to wander. At that point I just shut up and let them enjoy the simple things in life. I'm almost envious of those who don't care.

I totally feel ya!
I’m a HUGE researcher and sometimes I wish I didn’t care too!
BUT at least I know I’m buying quality products that are going to outlive others, and maintain more value over time.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

Well "quality" is all relative. I had a GIA G color VVS2 princess cut that I sold and replaced with a moissy. Crazy some would say but I don't care. Diamond alternatives can last as long as diamonds if they are high quality and with proper care. As far as value, again that is relative to the market conditions and you almost never recoup your initial investment.

It's pretty neat your friend got something that makes her happy and is maybe mind clean for her in not having to worry about the environmental or human impact.

 

[Bron357]

Man made diamonds are a fairly uncommon, I’m really surprised that a Mall jewellery shop has them for sale in their jewellery.
Did she actually buy a “real” diamond or did she buy one of the many diamond lookalikes ie Moissanite?
Moissanite isn’t a man made diamond, it’s a completely different gem, man made and “diamond looking”.
There are also a number of CZ stones that various makers refer to as “man made diamonds” which are nothing of the sort.
Given that a genuine man made diamond is nearly as expensive as a “mined from the earth” diamond, I don’t see an economic advantage in choosing lab made over earth mined. And as for being “greener”, the carbon footprint and energy used to create a man made diamond is significant.
Your friend may well have bought a Moissanite or even a CZ and is referring to it as a “man made diamond”. That’s just hope that she paid the Moissanite or CZ price and hasn’t been misled by unscrupulous advertising and/or the tiny tiny disclaimer hidden at the bottom of her paperwork.

 

[MTHealthyLiving]

Man made diamonds are a fairly uncommon, I’m really surprised that a Mall jewellery shop has them for sale in their jewellery.
Did she actually buy a “real” diamond or did she buy one of the many diamond lookalikes ie Moissanite?
Moissanite isn’t a man made diamond, it’s a completely different gem, man made and “diamond looking”.
There are also a number of CZ stones that various makers refer to as “man made diamonds” which are nothing of the sort.
Given that a genuine man made diamond is nearly as expensive as a “mined from the earth” diamond, I don’t see an economic advantage in choosing lab made over earth mined. And as for being “greener”, the carbon footprint and energy used to create a man made diamond is significant.
Your friend may well have bought a Moissanite or even a CZ and is referring to it as a “man made diamond”. That’s just hope that she paid the Moissanite or CZ price and hasn’t been misled by unscrupulous advertising and/or the tiny tiny disclaimer hidden at the bottom of her paperwork.

She bought an IGI certified 1.08 EON MMD from Samuels, approx $5,000. I have no idea the other specs as far as clarity, cut, color, etc....
I don't really think she knows anything about diamonds or MMDs.
When she went back to Samuels looking for a diamond (after I had advised against it and gave her resources for better, less expensive options), and they offered her a "great deal" on the MMDs. She traded up her .75 carat diamond (mined or MM I don't know) for the 1.08 MMD.
It was one of those spend twice as much as the cost of the original diamond to trade up, situations.

 

[Bron357]

She bought an IGI certified 1.08 EON MMD from Samuels, approx $5,000. I have no idea the other specs as far as clarity, cut, color, etc....
I don't really think she knows anything about diamonds or MMDs.
When she went back to Samuels looking for a diamond (after I had advised against it and gave her resources for better, less expensive options), and they offered her a "great deal" on the MMDs. She traded up her .75 carat diamond (mined or MM I don't know) for the 1.08 MMD.
It was one of those spend twice as much as the cost of the original diamond to trade up, situations.

Had a look at Samuels Jewellery, ugh, they also sell rings with CZ centers for thousands of dollars.
Interesting there is scant information on their “EON MMD” other than an average colour of I and clarity Si2. Mention of Certification but no sample or detail of who is providing it. That’s a worry.
It might have changed, but I thought producers of MMD were required to inscribe on the girdle that they were MMD diamonds?
You say your friend paid around $5,000, while on their website, special offer for 1 carat I colour in 14kt ring, was $6,000 now special price $3,734!
That’s even more of a worry.

 

[OoohShiny]

Can she get the ring appraised ASAP by a recommend PS apppraiser?

Did she pay on card?

 

[MTHealthyLiving]

Had a look at Samuels Jewellery, ugh, they also sell rings with CZ centers for thousands of dollars.
Interesting there is scant information on their “EON MMD” other than an average colour of I and clarity Si2. Mention of Certification but no sample or detail of who is providing it. That’s a worry.
It might have changed, but I thought producers of MMD were required to inscribe on the girdle that they were MMD diamonds?
You say your friend paid around $5,000, while on their website, special offer for 1 carat I colour in 14kt ring, was $6,000 now special price $3,734!
That’s even more of a worry.

I saw the CZ rings too!
Pretty sure I’d never buy from a jeweler that sells CZs.
I was concerned about how vague everything is on their site. If you click on “engagement rings” and then narrow the search to “diamond” you get TWO! So does that mean they aren’t totally disclosing the EON MMDs in the rest of the rings? Because like you said it’s so vague.
The $5,000 price is about what she paid in total for the ring plus an MMD trade up from the original stone in the ring. Sorry for the confusion there.
Still a hefty price tag in my opinion considering.
She did tell me that they are incribing on the diamond that it is lab created and she did receive a certification. But who on earth knows what it says or who actually grades the EON stones.

 

[MTHealthyLiving]

Can she get the ring appraised ASAP by a recommend PS apppraiser?

Did she pay on card?

Well that’s the thing... she’s tickled pink with it all. Which is good I guess. Just makes me sad to see people taken advantage of, especially when it comes to something as meaningful as engagement/wedding rings.

 

[MTHealthyLiving]

Can she get the ring appraised ASAP by a recommend PS apppraiser?

Did she pay on card?

And considering she knows nothing about diamonds, they could have told her that her original stone (which could have been a CZ as Samuels does sell them) was worth way more, just so she’d spend more on the trade. You have to upgrade by either double what you paid or double the value. I think it varies from store to store.

 

[bmfang]

This sounds like she got a dodgy deal. The math doesn’t stack up for me.