Why local jewelry BM stores offer a lower price than internet GIA diamond?

[4Moonlite]

Just like to know anybody can guessing how much a local jewelry store can inquire for a lower cost of GIA diamond than pricescope/internet price?
On my search 3x Gia .40 pointers G/H SI2 price is MORE than $500 each but local stores quoted me for only $500. I’m asking for 30 diamonds.
Many people in this forum said it’s cheaper to buy GIA from internet than local store. I am talking about LOWER end and smaller GIA diamonds not high end, ideal cut diamonds.
Why? Just trying to live and learn.

 

[tyty333]

Perhaps you are getting a better price due to the number of stones you will be buying.

 

[4Moonlite]

Perhaps you are getting a better price due to the number of stones you will be buying.

Thank you tyty maybe that’s the case.
On average they can ask suppliers for 5-8% off from listing.
Don’t you think $500 is very good deal? Of course I have to accept the good and bad SI2. I can’t cherry pick because to sort it out 30 stones are a lot of work for them. I don’t mind much of the bad SI2 stones because they are for bracelet. What is your option? Again, Thank you for your input.

 

[Wewechew]

Thank you tyty maybe that’s the case.
On average they can ask suppliers for 5-8% off from listing.
Don’t you think $500 is very good deal? Of course I have to accept the good and bad SI2. I can’t cherry pick because to sort it out 30 stones are a lot of work for them. I don’t mind much of the bad SI2 stones because they are for bracelet. What is your option? Again, Thank you for your input.

I think $500 per stone is fine if that is what you want. Personally, I would never drop below SI1, but again that's just me.

 

[sledge]

If you aren't going to "cherry pick" them then the local guy has all the incentive to give you a great deal. He grabs in stock inventory of unsold diamonds for one reason or another, or he purchases stone via virtual inventory that has been slow moving and he can barter additional discounts with his suppliers.

The other question would be is the 30 diamonds you buying INDIVIDUALLY graded, or are they graded as a lot? It's common for melee stones to have lot grading which is cheaper and would lower the price per stone.

It's been my experience there are no free rides in life. I personally wouldn't be interested in 30 stones that I couldn't look at the certs and stones individually to ensure they met my expectation of being well cut and to ensure the clarity of the stones didn't give me a box of milky looking stones with black crystals, cavities, etc.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

@4Moonlite ,
Si2 is a pretty wide category. The local store owner may be intending to pick the cheapest ones available in order to be price competitive. This may not be in your best interest. It may be better for YOU to be doing the choosing, even if it means a slightly higher price.

 

[4Moonlite]

If you aren't going to "cherry pick" them then the local guy has all the incentive to give you a great deal. He grabs in stock inventory of unsold diamonds for one reason or another, or he purchases stone via virtual inventory that has been slow moving and he can barter additional discounts with his suppliers.

The other question would be is the 30 diamonds you buying INDIVIDUALLY graded, or are they graded as a lot? It's common for melee stones to have lot grading which is cheaper and would lower the price per stone.

It's been my experience there are no free rides in life. I personally wouldn't be interested in 30 stones that I couldn't look at the certs and stones individually to ensure they met my expectation of being well cut and to ensure the clarity of the stones didn't give me a box of milky looking stones with black crystals, cavities, etc.

Each of them has individual GIA report certificates. I’m trying to ask him to order 35 and return the worst 5 or to lower 480 or 490. As I stated because the price points are already lower than internet therefore maybe it’s difficult for more rooms to negotiation. Thank you so much for your inputs.

 

[4Moonlite]

@4Moonlite ,
Si2 is a pretty wide category. The local store owner may be intending to pick the cheapest ones available in order to be price competitive. This may not be in your best interest. It may be better for YOU to be doing the choosing, even if it means a slightly higher price.

He’s offering SI1 for $600. I have been trying to pick up by myself and it’s very difficult with 30 stones with eyes clean, in excellent, ideal cuts.
Thank you so much for your inside knowledge and advice.

 

[denverappraiser]

Make sure that you and they both agree on what. “GIA graded” means. I suspect it’s not the same.

 

[sledge]

Make sure that you and they both agree on what. “GIA graded” means. I suspect it’s not the same.

Excellent point. Sometimes jewelers with a GIA gemologist will try to provide uncertified stones and use crafty wording because their internal gemologist graded them as such and such. It's not the same....they need an actual GIA authentic cert.

FYI, doing a very quick search on BN popped back 97 results in G-H, SI2+ clarity ranging from 0.38 to 0.42 carats and less than $500.

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I'm not recommending you just start blindly buying 30 of these diamonds as I still believe you need to analyze each of them to determine cut quality, etc. However, if the point of the game is to get you 30 diamonds for less than $500/ea with G/H color and SI2 clarity then boom I did it and saved you some cash.

 

[sledge]

If I take the BN search and tighten the parameters to look for more promising cuts I still get a plentiful list. Additional filters used:

• Polish = excellent
• Symmetry = excellent
• Flourescence = medium or less
• Depth = 60-62.4
• Table = 54-57

There was 15 stones for < $500 that popped up using the additional filters. When I bumped the dollars to $525 or less another 10 stones popped. When I increased to $550 max, the entire list in the screen cap formulated which included an additional 7 for 32 total.

Quick math:

• First 15 varies from $461 to $489 each, for an average of $475
• Next 10 varies from $501 to $524 each, for an average of $512.50
• Last 7 varies from $531 to $548 each, for an average of $539.50
• (15 * $475) + (10 * $512.50) + (5 * $539.50) = $14,947.50
• $14,947.50 / 30 stones = $498.25 each

 

[sledge]

Using PS search engine, I'm showing 42 stones. Some are a repeat from the BN stones already found searching directly on BN's site. The difference being the PS site auto calculates the HCA score so it helps narrow down the list a little further on stones that may be well cut.

I am curious though -- @Garry H (Cut Nut) how can you assign an HCA cut grade to JA stones? Am I interpreting correctly that even though JA blocks certs to the public, you have some special rights that allows the HCA to make a calculation based on private data only you/HCA is allowed to see?

The above in mind, JA does block certs the public, so it'd be a PITA to shop/verify the number of stones available with them as you'd have to request certs on each stone. Still don't understand that bonehead move.

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[kindred]

A lot of SI2s are dogs. I have one that is beautiful but it was hand selected and held as in-stock inventory by a recommended vendor here and it was far from the lowest priced SI2 available.

I would raise your specs to SI1 since you plan to buy so many, and be aware as mentioned above that "GIA" graded by an in-house gemologist is not the same thing as having a report from a GIA lab. A GIA lab report is much more reliable.

 

[4Moonlite]

If I take the BN search and tighten the parameters to look for more promising cuts I still get a plentiful list. Additional filters used:

• Polish = excellent
• Symmetry = excellent
• Flourescence = medium or less
• Depth = 60-62.4
• Table = 54-57

There was 15 stones for < $500 that popped up using the additional filters. When I bumped the dollars to $525 or less another 10 stones popped. When I increased to $550 max, the entire list in the screen cap formulated which included an additional 7 for 32 total.

Quick math:

• First 15 varies from $461 to $489 each, for an average of $475
• Next 10 varies from $501 to $524 each, for an average of $512.50
• Last 7 varies from $531 to $548 each, for an average of $539.50
• (15 * $475) + (10 * $512.50) + (5 * $539.50) = $14,947.50
• $14,947.50 / 30 stones = $498.25 each

Thank you so much for your time to do a lot of search and analysis.
I have been doing exactly what you did. But the only difference is that your .38carat and my .40carat will yield a big difference number of diamonds pops up as you see on my screenshots. They will be an authentic GIA report Certificates not from their gia shop certificates.

 

[4Moonlite]

Make sure that you and they both agree on what. “GIA graded” means. I suspect it’s not the same.

They know, I’m only looking for an authentic GIA report certificates. The only thing I’m seeing is for the small diamond less than .5 carat, GIA issues Dossier report. Can you confirm on this? Thank you for your expertises.

 

[sledge]

Thank you so much for your time to do a lot of search and analysis.
I have been doing exactly what you did. But the only difference is that your .38carat and my .40carat will yield a big difference number of diamonds pops up as you see on my screenshots. They will be an authentic GIA report Certificates not from their gia shop certificates.

A few thoughts:

1. Double check and make sure the jeweler is providing 0.40+ carat stones. Unless specifically stated, I would assume they would include "near 0.40ct" stones like I did in my search.

2. Even if all stones are exactly 0.40ct there will be variation in actual size, as carat weight is a function of length x width x depth x 0.0061. The exact proportions of each individual stone are slightly different. Not only does the proportions have an effect on cut quality and beauty but also what we call the spread (length x width) dimensions. For instance, a shallow crown stone with large table will naturally have less depth making the spread larger. Whereas, a smaller table and steeper crown will force the depth deeper and have a slightly smaller spread.

3. Depending on exact proportions and weights compared, there is little to no meaningful size difference. Quick checking a few stones it appears they size from 4.63x4.63 to 4.70x4.70. So around 0.10mm difference, which is about 1/256th inch. It normally takes about 0.20mm difference in a side by side view to see a size difference with the human eye. Obviously visual acuity of each individual person comes into play.

 

[4Moonlite]

A few thoughts:

1. Double check and make sure the jeweler is providing 0.40+ carat stones. Unless specifically stated, I would assume they would include "near 0.40ct" stones like I did in my search.

2. Even if all stones are exactly 0.40ct there will be variation in actual size, as carat weight is a function of length x width x depth x 0.0061. The exact proportions of each individual stone are slightly different. Not only does the proportions have an effect on cut quality and beauty but also what we call the spread (length x width) dimensions. For instance, a shallow crown stone with large table will naturally have less depth making the spread larger. Whereas, a smaller table and steeper crown will force the depth deeper and have a slightly smaller spread.

3. Depending on exact proportions and weights compared, there is little to no meaningful size difference. Quick checking a few stones it appears they size from 4.63x4.63 to 4.70x4.70. So around 0.10mm difference, which is about 1/256th inch. It normally takes about 0.20mm difference in a side by side view to see a size difference with the human eye. Obviously visual acuity of each individual person comes into play.

I will confirm with them about 0.40+ carat and 4.70x4.70+mm. If they’re not agree on this. It’ll be a deal breaker. Again thank so much for your advice.

 

[Sunstorm]

You may not be comparing apples to apples. SI2 is a very risky category to take chances on and a wide range. An SI2 can have one grade setting inclusion such as a totally safe side feather not at all affecting performance or can be visibly cloudy / full of Black inclusions under the table. This is a clarity grade where in general you really do have to select. If it was that easy everyone would be buying a deal. There is a reason why you are paying less.

 

[4Moonlite]

You may not be comparing apples to apples. SI2 is a very risky category to take chances on and a wide range. An SI2 can have one grade setting inclusion such as a totally safe side feather not at all affecting performance or can be visibly cloudy / full of Black inclusions under the table. This is a clarity grade where in general you really do have to select. If it was that easy everyone would be buying a deal. There is a reason why you are paying less.

When I’m looking on the James Allen photos videos for SI2 with many black inclusion in 10/20x zoomed but not much in 1x zoomed. I never seen an 0.40 carat SI2 in reality with black inclusion how does it look like. I assumed with a very small size It’s likely an eye clean from 10” away or can’t imagine how terrible it is. I may ask them to see a diamond with the same spec. in person so I can expect how they look like in 30 diamonds. Thank you so much for your info and advice.

 

[denverappraiser]

They know, I’m only looking for an authentic GIA report certificates. The only thing I’m seeing is for the small diamond less than .5 carat, GIA issues Dossier report. Can you confirm on this? Thank you for your expertises.

The dossier style report is fine. That's what everyone will have.
The reason I question the listing you posted, beyond the fact that this is always a question, is they call the cut 'ideal'. This is a word GIA doesn't use. It does not appear in their scales or on their reports. At least that part came from someone else.

 

[Rockdiamond]

I'll tell you this...if we had a chance to sell SI2's in bulk, we would jump at the chance, even if there was a slight loss involved.
As others have warned, SI2 can be pretty bad....over time, the pool correctly graded SI2 diamonds has gotten worse and worse as the nicer ones have gotten sold, and the worse ones keep getting returned. And I love SI2's.......but only if we can carefully select them.

 

[4Moonlite]

The dossier style report is fine. That's what everyone will have.
The reason I question the listing you posted, beyond the fact that this is always a question, is they call the cut 'ideal'. This is a word GIA doesn't use. It does not appear in their scales or on their reports. At least that part came from someone else.

Oh no the attached photo is from my search on bluenile list, once I set 3x it shows “ideal”. I just tried to indicate the price for 0.40 carat is more than $500. With the same requirements/parameters a local store is offering less than I can find on internet. Again that photo is not from a store.

 

[4Moonlite]

I'll tell you this...if we had a chance to sell SI2's in bulk, we would jump at the chance, even if there was a slight loss involved.
As others have warned, SI2 can be pretty bad....over time, the pool correctly graded SI2 diamonds has gotten worse and worse as the nicer ones have gotten sold, and the worse ones keep getting returned. And I love SI2's.......but only if we can carefully select them.

What you are saying is exactly my fears to receive all the worst and junky SI2. He said he can’t return the diamonds when he received them.
It’s very difficult for me to select 30 SI2 in my price range. I’m feeling it is better to get a bad Gia stone than a local store junky certificates. It’s very hard to clarify and accurate grade a diamond without GIA report. Thank you so much for your warning.

 

[Rockdiamond]

He said he can’t return the diamonds when he received them.

RED FLAG!!! Big red flag.....
The only time a cutter ( or dealer selling to another dealer) makes such a stipulation is if there is something extraordinary about the deal. Such as- "I'll sell you these SI2's at (such and such) a price- but once you agree, they're yours. No returns."
I would never agree to such terms unless the price was close to $0

 

[4Moonlite]

RED FLAG!!! Big red flag.....
The only time a cutter ( or dealer selling to another dealer) makes such a stipulation is if there is something extraordinary about the deal. Such as- "I'll sell you these SI2's at (such and such) a price- but once you agree, they're yours. No returns."
I would never agree to such terms unless the price was close to $0

You make me think about it twice.

 

[OoohShiny]

You make me think about it twice.

You should think more than twice!

No returns? Even if they are terrible? No, thank you.

That is an enormous amount of money to risk on buying stones unseen - can you throw away fifteen thousand dollars if you hate it??

I would thank the jeweller for their time and move on.


Sledge has done excellent work finding options in the PS search engine - I am sure that one of the recommended Pricescope vendors would be happy to work with you to create what you are looking for with no risk of issues.

Perhaps contact Yukuteil (spelling?) at IDJewellery - they come recommended for 'Pricescope quality' diamonds that are not 'superideal'.

 

[ringo865]

I would think that ID jewelry could make you a bracelet with PS quality diamonds fitting your criteria for less than the price you could buy the diamonds loose and then have your jeweler create a setting and set thirty stones ...

 

[4Moonlite]

I would think that ID jewelry could make you a bracelet with PS quality diamonds fitting your criteria for less than the price you could buy the diamonds loose and then have your jeweler create a setting and set thirty stones ...

I have contacted ID jewelry and their prices are much higher than I expected. They charge $20,000 for PS quality and $26,500 for GIA diamond with certificates.
I may ask my local store order 15 diamonds and I will order another 15 by myself. I know my diamonds will not have much inclusion on the table and eye clean (my eyes) and price maybe up to $550. This way I have a chance to return some bad ones on my diamonds.

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

I may ask my local store order 15 diamonds and I will order another 15 by myself. I know my diamonds will not have much inclusion on the table and eye clean (my eyes) and price maybe up to $550. This way I have a chance to return some bad ones on my diamonds.

Could you please elaborate? I don't think I understand that plan? You are sure yours will be OK, but they'd be returnable. The 15 others still aren't

?

 

[Wewechew]

I have contacted ID jewelry and their prices are much higher than I expected. They charge $20,000 for PS quality and $26,500 for GIA diamond with certificates.
I may ask my local store order 15 diamonds and I will order another 15 by myself. I know my diamonds will not have much inclusion on the table and eye clean (my eyes) and price maybe up to $550. This way I have a chance to return some bad ones on my diamonds.

Considering IDJ is known for "budget" high quality diamonds, I think that tells you all you need to know right there about the ones that you are considering.