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Why local jewelry BM stores offer a lower price than internet GIA diamond?

4Moonlite

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 19, 2016
Messages
81
Could you please elaborate? I don't think I understand that plan? You are sure yours will be OK, but they'd be returnable. The 15 others still aren't

?
I will order 15+ diamonds from Bluenile and James Allen. At least, I’m seeing them from the videos that they are clean. If they’re not good when I receive them, I can return from these vendors. The others 15, my local store will order them and can’t return as they have informed me. I don’t know if they would like to work as I have planned for.
 
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4Moonlite

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 19, 2016
Messages
81
Considering IDJ is known for "budget" high quality diamonds, I think that tells you all you need to know right there about the ones that you are considering.
My goal is to get 30 Gia diamonds for 15k+. All people in this forum prefer quality over quantity of their diamonds. However,I have to work on my budget allowance, therefore I can’t go higher on clarity or less than .40 carat each.
I sincerely appreciate all of your time, advices and inputs from PS members.
 
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Wewechew

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Messages
1,924
My goal is to get 30 Gia diamonds for 15k+. All people in this forum prefer quality over quantity of their diamonds. However,I have to work on my budget allowance, therefore I can’t go higher on clarity.
I sincerely appreciate all of your time, advices and inputs from PS members.
Fair enough!
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
3,717
I'm confused why the stones HAVE to be exactly 0.40+ carats. A stone that weighs in at 0.38+ carats will visually look the same size and I found you a boatload of stones that you can HAND PICK and still stay within your $500ish per stone budget.

It makes no sense to prioritize 0.02 of carat weight higher than the ability to review and analyze the type, location and severity of the SI2 inclusions.

I don't think you really understand the majority of SI2 stones are stuff people DO NOT want to own. To find a nice eye clean SI2 is very difficult. And you're trying to do it sight unseen, trust the local guy that can supposedly give you the deal of a lifetime -- with no return policy.

The warning signs are there -- you should walk on the deal before you get hurt. It makes no sense to throw $15k down the drain to buy crap cut quality and crap clarity stones. Lower your requirements to meet your budget goals, or increase the budget.

Reminds me of someone shopping for a "car deal" and finds an ad that reads.....

2015 model, slight fender bender damage, runs great....$1,500 or best offer. No pics, so you go to look and BAM.....

1571420759196.png
 

4Moonlite

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 19, 2016
Messages
81
I'm confused why the stones HAVE to be exactly 0.40+ carats. A stone that weighs in at 0.38+ carats will visually look the same size and I found you a boatload of stones that you can HAND PICK and still stay within your $500ish per stone budget.

It makes no sense to prioritize 0.02 of carat weight higher than the ability to review and analyze the type, location and severity of the SI2 inclusions.

I don't think you really understand the majority of SI2 stones are stuff people DO NOT want to own. To find a nice eye clean SI2 is very difficult. And you're trying to do it sight unseen, trust the local guy that can supposedly give you the deal of a lifetime -- with no return policy.

The warning signs are there -- you should walk on the deal before you get hurt. It makes no sense to throw $15k down the drain to buy crap cut quality and crap clarity stones. Lower your requirements to meet your budget goals, or increase the budget.

Reminds me of someone shopping for a "car deal" and finds an ad that reads.....

2015 model, slight fender bender damage, runs great....$1,500 or best offer. No pics, so you go to look and BAM.....

1571420759196.png
Thank you so much sledge for your works and advice.
My challenge for this project are;

1. I’m not a diamond expert. I can’t imagine how much difference in reality good and bad ones on this small size. I never hold a diamond on my hand of an SI2 .40 carat.
2. If I buy.38 carat I just relying on the HCA and videos for the ideal cut and cleanliness of diamonds. Who’s going help me to eliminate the bad ones?
3. It’ll be a lot of work to order 30+ diamonds and return some.
4. Local store is not much happy to work with me if I bring them my diamonds in to set on their bracelet.
5. The cost for making bracelet and sets 30 diamonds will be higher.

Please let me know your thought and way you can think of to achieve this project.

Thank you again sledge.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
3,717
If you've not ever held a diamond, how did you decide that a G/H color and SI2 clarity in a 0.40ct size is what you wanted? Was it something you read? Does a friend have something similar?

And what about this jeweler that was going to order 30 of the diamonds for you -- did he not show you any diamonds? I think you need to go to a different jewelry store. Ask to see some stones in the 0.35 to 0.45 carat range, preferably all GIA 3x stones and with similar proportions. Request to view G, H, I and J colors. Ask the person showing them to you NOT to tell you which color or carat weight is which. Then compare the stone and look for 2 primary things:

1. Can you tell a size difference with YOUR EYES between the stones? Again, no cheating -- we don't want you to know the carat weight -- just pick the ones that look bigger/smaller to you visually using only your eyes.

2. Can you identify the color difference between the stones? Let's pretend he shows you exactly 4 stones. If 3 of them look the same to you, but one is more tinted then the lowest color of the 3 you grouped together is YOUR minimum for being able to identify tint. Everyone's vision varies a little.

The point of the exercise is to let you understand what you are really buying. Also, to maybe calm your nerves a little on the size and understand that hitting a range of near identical carat weight is more budget friendly and without visual difference. The other thing is that if you learn you can't differentiate between G-J color, then you could potentially drop the color to J which would decrease the price, and maybe allow you to increase the clarity for the same or less $500/stone price.

I might add, the smaller the stone, then the smaller the body. This is important because color is identified by looking at the side of the stone (the body). So if there is less body, there is less potential to see color. So it's possible you can tolerate a J in a 0.40+/- size but maybe prefer G/H in a larger 2+/- carat size.

Lastly, the cut quality of the stone can make a difference to size and color. The reasoning is pretty simple. When a stone has the right proportions and cut correctly then light will enter, bounce around properly and exit back through the top of the diamond. What this does is make the diamond appear whiter when looking at the top/face view of the diamond as it maximizing the light return. A secondary effect is the stone looks bigger as well because a well cut stone will identify edge to edge brightness. If poorly cut stones, the angles are wrong and light doesn't reflect so you it doesn't light up all the way to the edges and creates a visual trick the diamond is smaller than it really is.

My point in all this blabbering is that maybe you adjust your size requirements to 0.35 to 0.45 carats, possibly decrease color to include G/H/I/J and increase your clarity to at least an SI1. Visually you may not be able to see a difference with YOUR EYES, so it is an effective way to help maximize your dollars. Alas, it gives us the ability to help you select 30 stones with good proportions so you have a reasonable shot at getting an ideal cut stone.


1571430938862.png



 

distracts

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
4,956
To me the two main problems here are 1. your size requirement for budget may be unrealistic, and 2. you don't trust the jeweler you have chosen to work with to pick diamonds that are as nice as you want.

I would think about alternate ways to get what you want - could your jeweler or IDJ or someone make a half or 3/4 tennis bracelet with the size and quality of diamonds you want on your budget? Then when you have more money to spend you could get it completed, but meanwhile you would have something to wear that will still be fabulously blingy. Is it not possible to choose .35 ct diamonds?

I also agree with @sledge that you need to do more research.

Even most places with very nice tennis bracelets wouldn't have each stone with a lab report... I'm sure places like BGD, Whiteflash, HPD wouldn't use GIA certed stones unless specifically requested. It looks to me like that's a limit that you seem to be arbitrarily imposing because you don't trust your jeweler to pick good diamonds, so you can assure yourself of a minimum quality. What most of us here would do is select a jeweler where we trust that their minimum quality would meet our standards, and trust them to honestly tell us when our budget is incompatible with our desires and help us find something that will meet those desires while remaining in-budget.
 

4Moonlite

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 19, 2016
Messages
81
First of all Thanks so much for your time and knowledge.
I wish I can live near by you and pay you instead of the local store for helping me to choose the diamonds. I’m okay to go down to I/J Color but prefer I because many diamonds from Costco are in I and they don’t look bad at all. I came to his store and he showed me a .40 carat not a GIA diamond already mounted on a necklace so I don’t have a base line to compare.

Is it possible to go down to I color, SI1 clarity in .40 carat and still in my budget?
I will pay them $2000 total for bracelet + stones sets.
This way I know my diamonds are in excellent cut and lightly very clean.
 
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distracts

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
4,956
Also if you are ever in the position where you want or need to sell the bracelet, if you have gotten all GIA-certed stones and thus paid more, it is highly unlikely you will recoup anywhere near the cost. There was a member here several years ago who had gotten an eternity band with iirc 0.20 ct D VS+ diamonds all with GIA lab reports, and she had a heck of a time trying to sell it since no one was willing to pay even half of what she paid, and she ended up keeping it because she would have had to lose so much money to sell it. If you have diamonds that have eye-visible inclusions, people will really not want to pay the extra then. Just something to consider. I always keep resale value in mind when buying because though I don't plan to sell my pieces (until I get very old if my as-yet-unborn children don't want them), shit happens and at some point I might have to, or I might lose interest in jewelry altogether or something and decide to put the money into something else.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
3,717
If you're okay with I color, let me see what I can find in I color and SI1 clarity. This may mean we have to adjust the carat weight a bit.

Although we may go less than 0.40, I'd like to stay in a range that isn't noticeably different to the naked eye.

You see people do this all the time on bigger stones. A 0.95 or 1.95 will sell less for an equal stone with sizes 1ct or 2ct. No size difference to the eye, but technically it's bigger. We don't want to pay for technical gains, we want to pay for noticeable/significant gains. You're not picking up as much as a premium with a 0.40, but it is jumping up a little hence the difficulty.

If we get that settled, then we can start sorting through individual stones for specs that are promising so you get a quality cut and also sorting out which ones have acceptable inclusions.
 

4Moonlite

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 19, 2016
Messages
81
If you're okay with I color, let me see what I can find in I color and SI1 clarity. This may mean we have to adjust the carat weight a bit.

Although we may go less than 0.40, I'd like to stay in a range that isn't noticeably different to the naked eye.

You see people do this all the time on bigger stones. A 0.95 or 1.95 will sell less for an equal stone with sizes 1ct or 2ct. No size difference to the eye, but technically it's bigger. We don't want to pay for technical gains, we want to pay for noticeable/significant gains. You're not picking up as much as a premium with a 0.40, but it is jumping up a little hence the difficulty.

If we get that settled, then we can start sorting through individual stones for specs that are promising so you get a quality cut and also sorting out which ones have acceptable inclusions.
Sounds good to me may be I have to accept J color as well. I don’t know which option is better than the other;
1. G/H SI2 with .38 carat 15K
2. I/J SI2 with .40 carat 15K
3. G/H SI1 with .40 carat -18K if we can find all eyes clean and ideal cut, HCA less than 2.
This will be a lot of work to do. Thank you so much for your help!
 

kipari

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Messages
1,338
OP, I guess I'll try to be as clear as possible : people on here are trying to get the *most beautiful* diamond for the best price. Hence the price IDJ and others quoted you.


Si2 diamonds are tricky. They can be not only sub par, but you're in the territory where they don't sparkle because of the inclusions. You might not see black per se or cloudiness in a small stone. But if doesn't sparkle, what's the point?

Many savvy PSers have gorgeous Si2 unicorns. But ONLY after sometimes months of sifting for ONE stone.

You are hung up on 0.40 CT. @sledge is telling you that the difference between 0.40 and 0. 38 is invisible. A slight change in colour will also be invisible in *well cut stones*
What the majority of si2 stones is NOT. AT. ALL.

SO from the point of view of most people here you're about to flush 15k down the drain for a bracelet that has certain stats and a certain size, but won't sparkle.

If you have personal reasons for the 0.40 ct that's totally OK. If sparkle (light return) is not your main concern :that is totally fine as well. People in this community just want you to understand what you are getting.

Sorry for the tough love, but your jeweler is not offering you a deal.

ETA after seeing the last post :

For perspective :
If you buy all stones @0.40 for 18 k, as suggested in

3.)

you'll have to buy the mounting and have the stones set. You'll be very near ID jewelery's price or over at the end. With A LOT of work...
 

AprilBaby

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
10,219
Why don’t you drop your size to .35 and get better stones? Find out from ID what $15,000 will buy you? I would rather have a gorgeous bracelet than a larger dull one.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
3,717
With the consumer grade search tools I have available to utilize, it appears a 0.38ct+, G/H color, SI1+ clarity and $600 or less budget per stone is what gets you closest to your goal.

I haven't analyzed all these stones yet, but they show promising Ex HCA scores and most are in the mid $500's but all have at least SI1 clarity. So somewhere between your $15-18k budget.

The biggest caveat being they are all 0.38-0.39. As myself and others already stated, this gets you within the "spirit" of a 0.40 stone with no visible difference. It's just a technicality.

Two other possibilities. Have you contacted Martin Sheffield @ USA Certed Diamonds? I looked on his site earlier and he didn't have an option for this size but I'm guessing a call might yield different results. He's a low overhead cost guy that will offer a no perks such as upgrades, etc but may be able to source the quality level you need for the tight budget you have.

My other thought was potentially Jann Paul. They are located in Singapore but have a very good rep amongst international consumers. It may be a long shot but it's worth a call IMO.

 

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4Moonlite

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 19, 2016
Messages
81
With the consumer grade search tools I have available to utilize, it appears a 0.38ct+, G/H color, SI1+ clarity and $600 or less budget per stone is what gets you closest to your goal.

I haven't analyzed all these stones yet, but they show promising Ex HCA scores and most are in the mid $500's but all have at least SI1 clarity. So somewhere between your $15-18k budget.

The biggest caveat being they are all 0.38-0.39. As myself and others already stated, this gets you within the "spirit" of a 0.40 stone with no visible difference. It's just a technicality.

Two other possibilities. Have you contacted Martin Sheffield @ USA Certed Diamonds? I looked on his site earlier and he didn't have an option for this size but I'm guessing a call might yield different results. He's a low overhead cost guy that will offer a no perks such as upgrades, etc but may be able to source the quality level you need for the tight budget you have.

My other thought was potentially Jann Paul. They are located in Singapore but have a very good rep amongst international consumers. It may be a long shot but it's worth a call IMO.

Your list is really good. I will contact Martin. This is the first time, you mentioned his name in this PS forum. Paul is too far away. I will check the photos and videos of diamonds on you list. Thank you sledge!
 

Cosmetologist

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
127
@4Moonlite I think you are setting yourself such a hard challenge & sadly many Jewellers will be out to exploit this & 15k is alot money to spend!

It would be eaiser if could be abit looser in the Stats you want especially as larger Parcels aren't usually Lab Graded but done in house.

Like many have already said the eye can't really tell the difference between a .37ct to .40ct & the Cut quality can make stones appear smaller or larger a Excellently Cut .40ct will face up much larger than a Avg Cut .40ct also its sometimes hard to see the Differences between an G Colour Stone & a I coloured stone but the Price Difference will be quite higher.

Also SI2 is a Grade in which unscrupulous Dealers can fob off I1 Stones for a Higher Price - You can find "Eye Clean" SI2's if you get a Cherry Picked Stone from one of the many Superior Vendors on PS.

I personally never go below VS2 especially when Buying Blind or over the Internet & Especially with In House Graded, Have you considered possibly purchasing a Pre-Owned Bracelet? You may find one you love & at a better price especially if your open to other Specs or Ct Weights!

I think you have made a step in the right direction in posting here, Everyone on here is so helpful & genuine with no hidden agendas.

Best of luck, I truly hope you find something you love, be sure to keep us all updated with Pixs etc!
 
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