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why is this ideal HCA score of 1.8 dark looking?

luvnlife

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 17, 2010
Messages
70
Please help me to understand . Is it true that you always need an aset picture even if your diamond scores well on HCA? GIA VG cut angles are 35 crown ,40.8 p and 57 table, 62.6 depth and with 4.5% girdle. I don't understand why this ideal diamond is darker looking than a steep deep with 35.5 and 41.2, 62.3 and 3.5% girdle.

Is it possible that the ideal is leaking light, or because it is a VG cut instead of ex cut, or does it look like it should? thanks so much!

IMG_0998.JPG
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 25, 2005
Messages
13,324
I think it looks fine, possibly needs to be cleaned. You need to be in the right lighting situation to have a "white" looking stone.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
Looks about like it should given what I can tell about the lighting you are in (looking at your hand and the background).

What are the lgf ratios of the diamond and the one you are comparing it to? Some stones are "brighter" than others, yours might have more contrast which can mean less bright white in some lighting.

One of the misconceptions peple have about well cut diamonds is that they ALWAYS sparkle and shine and look like a million bucks. But as Karl says, a diamond's appearance is determined by four factors: lighting, lighting, lighting... and cut ;))
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,719
Also the camera itself can block some of the light that would have gotten into the stone if you had held it at arm's length.

That's a major reason that Nikon and Canon get $1,700 for their best macro lenses.
They don't have to be so close.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
32,131
Dreamer_D|1306900319|2935114 said:
Looks about like it should given what I can tell about the lighting you are in (looking at your hand and the background).

What are the lgf ratios of the diamond and the one you are comparing it to? Some stones are "brighter" than others, yours might have more contrast which can mean less bright white in some lighting.

One of the misconceptions peple have about well cut diamonds is that they ALWAYS sparkle and shine and look like a million bucks. But as Karl says, a diamond's appearance is determined by four factors: lighting, lighting, lighting... and cut ;))
so true...each diamond reacts to different types of light. i haven't met a diamond that sparkles in the dark.. :bigsmile:
 

luvnlife

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 17, 2010
Messages
70
Thanks so much for everyones replies! I am now posting the so-called steep deep and to me it looks brighter and showing more color and better contrast than the more ideal cut. The days the pics were taken are very similar, as well as it is the same location where the pics were taken. So confusing!!
Could it be because one has a thicker girdle?

Also as Gary said the deeper look lighter, I thought deeper look darker, but I know he knows what he's talking about. I just am trying to teach my eyes what to look for. this diamond is very bright . Thanks to all for your help!!

IMG_0285.JPG
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
20,775
luvnlife|1306946995|2935438 said:
Thanks so much for everyones replies! I am now posting the so-called steep deep and to me it looks brighter and showing more color and better contrast than the more ideal cut. The days the pics were taken are very similar, as well as it is the same location where the pics were taken. So confusing!!
Could it be because one has a thicker girdle?

Also as Gary said the deeper look lighter, I thought deeper look darker, but I know he knows what he's talking about. I just am trying to teach my eyes what to look for. this diamond is very bright . Thanks to all for your help!!

luv -

If those pics were taken in super bright sunlight.. "ideal" was darker and the "steep/deep" is lighter/brighter - in that particular type of light, and that particular type of light only, because of how your eyes respond to really bright lights.. Rhino's posts in this thread explain how you can see what you see: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/why-does-my-diamond-go-dark-in-the-middle.156211/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/why-does-my-diamond-go-dark-in-the-middle.156211/[/URL]
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
Girdle doesn't matter.

Maybe you just like the look of the second stone better? No shame in that. You might be someone who really likes bright white light return over contrast.

Do you also prefer the second stone accross other lighting environements too?
 

luvnlife

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 17, 2010
Messages
70
Yssie, the pics were taken on an overcast day with no sunlight whatsoever. To me, the steeper diamond appears brighter to me in pretty much all lighting conditions. The steeper diamond has also gotten compliments on and the other only one.

I do understand that all well cut diamonds appear dark in direct sunlight as do both of these. Under a tree, or in shade of sun the steep diamond glows. Also, the Gia (steep) is triple ex and the "ideal is vg,vg,vg .

Also both diamonds were clean at the time of pic. I cleaned them before the pics were taken. I guess diamonds don't always perform their best and maybe the more ideals have other attributes , just that I can't seem to figure that out yet with any conclusiveness, other than one having darker arrows.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
luvnlife|1306955172|2935559 said:
Yssie, the pics were taken on an overcast day with no sunlight whatsoever. To me, the steeper diamond appears brighter to me in pretty much all lighting conditions. The steeper diamond has also gotten compliments on and the other only one.

I do understand that all well cut diamonds appear dark in direct sunlight as do both of these. Under a tree, or in shade of sun the steep diamond glows. Also, the Gia (steep) is triple ex and the "ideal is vg,vg,vg .

Also both diamonds were clean at the time of pic. I cleaned them before the pics were taken. I guess diamonds don't always perform their best and maybe the more ideals have other attributes , just that I can't seem to figure that out yet with any conclusiveness, other than one having darker arrows.
You refer to the GIA stone as a "steep" diamond. I don't think it reaches that definition personally. Both are well cut. The numbers only tell us so much, there are many other nuances that affect the "flavour" of a diamond and how it looks. Can you post the reports for both of them? There are other aspects of cut that might explain what you are seeing.

I am a bit confused though. The first stone is a GIA VG for cut and the other one a GIA Ex, but the former has an HCA score under 2 and the latter an HCA score over 2?
 

luvnlife

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 17, 2010
Messages
70
Dreamer d, The first pic is the "ideal" with better angles and is a GIA vg, vg,vg, that I think is darker, with 50 star, and 80 lower -- numbers I gave earlier. The second pic , the steep/deep angled one that I think is brighter, is the GIA ex ex ex with 55% stars and 3.5 girdle with 80% lg-- other numbers given earlier
 

luvnlife

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 17, 2010
Messages
70
Forgot to add that yes, the gia vg gets a 1.8 on HCA and the gia triple ex gets a terrible score on HCA of like 4 approx.
 

luvnlife

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 17, 2010
Messages
70
Thanks for all responses. I still don't know the answer to my original question, is it possible for an ideal diamond with <2 HCA score to leak light. I am noticing the darkness in the 1st pic posted and was wondering if the darkness seen is light leaking out. The second pic, the deeper stone that I feel looks brighter scores horrible on HCA
 

luvnlife

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 17, 2010
Messages
70
Good evening all. Is it possible for an ideal cut gia diamond to score 1.8 on the HCA and have a darkish center? Could it be the symmetry, or the polish? Could it mean that it might have more sparkle instead of white brightness? How can you determine a great stone when the numbers are good? Which of the two pics do you prefer? Is it just me? Please help me to learn. thanks to all.
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
luvnlife|1307069350|2936648 said:
Good evening all. Is it possible for an ideal cut gia diamond to score 1.8 on the HCA and have a darkish center? Could it be the symmetry, or the polish? Could it mean that it might have more sparkle instead of white brightness? How can you determine a great stone when the numbers are good? Which of the two pics do you prefer? Is it just me? Please help me to learn. thanks to all.
yes it is possible for a stone that scores <2 on HCA to leak some light. you can test for this with an idealscope image. I don't think your stone looks particularly dark in the center though...it may be just obstruction from your head or the camera. Can you describe what you are seeing?
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
luvnlife|1307069350|2936648 said:
Good evening all. Is it possible for an ideal cut gia diamond to score 1.8 on the HCA and have a darkish center? Could it be the symmetry, or the polish? Could it mean that it might have more sparkle instead of white brightness? How can you determine a great stone when the numbers are good? Which of the two pics do you prefer? Is it just me? Please help me to learn. thanks to all.
I would not use the term ideal for the first stone without seeing an idealscope image. The numbers only tell you so much, and with the GIA VG cut score, I would want more assessment tools before calling the stone "ideal", which to me should be used more precisely.

The HCA is a rejection tool, not a selection tool, so though it suggests the first stone warrants further assessment, it does not tell you the stone is a great performer, nor does it tell you whether you will like the way it looks!

Yes, ideal stones can show darkish centers if you hold it close to your head, it is often a shadow from your head.

No it is not symmetry or polish.

The first stone is *likely* to show more life and movement accross lighting environemnts. Contrast, which is shifting patterns of light and dark as you move the diamond. The second stone is *likely* to look brighter but show a little less contrast. If you go from lighting environment to lighting environment the differences between the diamonds might be more apparent. Try experimenting.

There are a few tools. First the cut grade from the lab. Second the HCA. Third an ideal scope image. Fourth your eyes. Three and 4 might be reversed, or four valued more than 2-3 if you are buying in person. All these tools will help you to narrow the field of what you like in your diamonds.

I can't make a judgement call based on the photos, its not enough information. They both look good to my eyes just based on those photos alone (which is not much), just different "flavours". GIA rounds its numbers on its report, so the poor HCA score on the second could be a "false negative", and other aspects of cut could compensate for the pavilion, like lgfs. So the second might not be as poorly cut as you think. And the first not as good. We need more information to tell. And you have the stones in person.

Are you questioning your preference for the second? Thinking you "shouldn't" prefer it because it is not "ideal" and the first one is "Ideal" (though as I said, I would not use that term.)
 

luvnlife

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 17, 2010
Messages
70
Thanks Dreamer D, and yes I do question the second steeper diamond but only because I really like the way it looks -when I got it I couldn't stop looking at it. I didn't do that with the so-called "ideal" stone, so I question why would I favor a steeper over a more ideal, but like you said, numbers aren't everything. thanks for your response! Maybe it is the contrast the steeper diamond has that I like. I have taken many photos of both in similar or same areas with same lighting and there seems to be not much if any difference at all in performance, EXCEPT IN OUTDOOR OVERCAST DAYLIGHT, which makes me wonder why that is , and the fact that I've gotten compliments on the steeper stone. Go figure :confused:
 
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