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Why does everyone ask about EGL stones?

TristanC

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
995
I must admit I'm very confused. At least once a day someone will come on Rockytalky and ask for an opinion on an EGL stone after saying that they have done their due diligence and research.

The answer will inevitably be that EGL is not as reputed as GIA/AGS, and that although it is certainly possible that the stone in question is exactly as mentioned on the EGL cert if it were graded by GIA/AGS, the likelihood is very slim. Because EGL is either loose in its grading or lies outright.

So in essence, an EGL cert to the people at PS means nothing as it does not give a baseline to compare against other stones. Then some PSer will do a search of EGL stones on the PS vendor database and come up with a stone that is much cheaper with similar EGL specs.

Following which we will recommend a GIA/AGS certed stone in the same budget, but it will usually ON PAPER look like less of a deal to the OP.

Then tomorrow will dawn, and everything will happen again the exact same way. Is there a way to sticky what you should do if you are considering EGL stones? Or what you should be aware of?
 

zeero3

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Messages
7
Sorry. However, the basis for my post was focused on cut. Even after doing the research and comparisons to PS vendor sites, the question remained about the validity of EGL's reputation on dimension accuracy--hence the post. If their dimensions are, in fact, reputable, I have a strong case actually. If not, I'm glad to step out of the ignorance circle. Again, didn't mean to agitate.
 

Lula

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
4,544
I think the primary reason is that most consumers start out looking for diamonds at their local B&M stores, and most local stores, if they carry lab-graded stones at all, tend to carry more EGL stones than they do GIA or AGS stones. I know in my own mid-sized, midwestern city, very few jewelers carry AGS stones; some carry GIA; but, by far the majority of the stores carry EGL stones and/or (shudder) carry stones with no lab report that they grade in-house.
 

kindred

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
945
yennyfire|1309435275|2958917 said:
I think that Lula hit the nail on the head.
Me too. I think a lot of people are uncomfortable ordering a diamond from the internet. A couple of years ago it was easy for me to find GIA graded diamonds where I live. Now that prices have gone up, it seems like almost every store has EGL certs or worse.
 

ruby59

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Messages
3,553
I have a question relating to this -- Are you referring to all EGL stones being losely graded? I thought I read several articles on this site that EGL USA was on par with GIA. Maybe I misinterpreted. Or has this changed?
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
32,147
ruby59|1309454958|2959182 said:
I have a question relating to this -- Are you referring to all EGL stones being losely graded? I thought I read several articles on this site that EGL USA was on par with GIA. Maybe I misinterpreted. Or has this changed?
possible,but very unlikely. 90% of the well cut stones will go to AGS or GIA lab to fetch the extra premium.
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
It's not just that question that gets repeated over and again. There are dozens of questions that get replayed. New people come in, don't understand the search function or just need someone to hear THEIR question and be answered directly.

Those of us who have been here a while understand that the diamond IS what it IS regardless of how it is graded. If you truly know and understand this, you can find a good deal on an EGL stone sometimes. it isn't the stone's fault it was graded by EGL. If you can evaluate it yourself and/or have it appraised, you can make a decision on an EGL stone that may in fact be to purchase it. The reason that most people here steer potential buyers away from them is that a) if they don't really understand how to evaluate the stone on their own it is easier to go with a company you can trust and b) there is concern that someone may be paying too much for what a stone isn't. If you know what you're looking at and you know its value it can be fine.

FTR - this isn't the first time someone has asked why a particular question gets asked over and over again and I urge you to ponder that further ;-)
 

TristanC

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
995
Cehrabehra|1309459938|2959274 said:
FTR - this isn't the first time someone has asked why a particular question gets asked over and over again and I urge you to ponder that further ;-)
Touche. :D

No, my post was not a rant. It may come across that way but I believe it might be due to my wise @ss nature.

I actually find that many of the questions come from people who have found good priced deals from online vendors. The reason that exists is usually because EGL grades more loosely and hence the purchased stones are priced higher than what they are.

Zeero3, please for goodness sakes you don't need to apologise, I was never coming after you with this post. I think PS just doesn't want to see anyone getting something that they might regret or not feel comfortable with or overpay for something that isn't worth the coin you paid.

As you say, cut is indeed important, and it is difficult to grade cut exactly because labs use various methods of grading cut. I'll leave it to the experts here (I certainly am not one) to explain but cut is not graded only by fixed dimensions, it is also graded by visual impression of the final stone. Then you have HCA and tolkowsky etc. The problem with EGL is, even if the stone gets a great HCA score, and is actually cut extremely well, its VS1 G could actually be VS2 I, in which case although you end up with a well cut stone, you don't have the best deal anyway, as an equivalent GIA stone could be sourced for similar money.

At the end of the day, colourless diamonds have many many 'near intangibles', like clarity that can't be seen by the naked eye and sometimes sorting clarity grades with a 10X loupe leads to variations in classification, colour grades that are debated even amongst experts with reference stone sets etc etc yet they all factor to the item's price.

The slight discount from EGL usually isn't worth the gamble unless you really know what you're doing, or you are content anyway with whatever you buy.
 

MyDiamondSparkles

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 22, 2010
Messages
525
I tend to like old cut diamonds (OEC, OMC, rose cut) and those hardly ever have a GIA. I wish they all did...it would be a lot easier when looking. But old cut newer cut aside, here is a prime example there's been an OEC diamond that that has been for sale for a very long time. I am unsure as to why (lower color more than likely) but it's a great price for the size it is--beautiful looking stone too. The diamond was listed as a VVS2 O/P--lower color is more than likely why it doens't sell. The color and clarity were based on a GIA report. I noticed the other day that the price of the diamond rose dramatically-- 68%, so of course I had to take a look. Now the seller has a EGL report and states the diamond is a VS1-2 and a K! :roll:
 

Christina...

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
5,028
MyDiamondSparkles|1309555387|2960188 said:
I tend to like old cut diamonds (OEC, OMC, rose cut) and those hardly ever have a GIA. I wish they all did...it would be a lot easier when looking. But old cut newer cut aside, here is a prime example there's been an OEC diamond that that has been for sale for a very long time. I am unsure as to why (lower color more than likely) but it's a great price for the size it is--beautiful looking stone too. The diamond was listed as a VVS2 O/P--lower color is more than likely why it doens't sell. The color and clarity were based on a GIA report. I noticed the other day that the price of the diamond rose dramatically-- 68%, so of course I had to take a look. Now the seller has a EGL report and states the diamond is a VS1-2 and a K! :roll:


I'm surprised that EGL down graded the clarity! :rolleyes:
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
20,777
MyDiamondSparkles|1309555387|2960188 said:
I tend to like old cut diamonds (OEC, OMC, rose cut) and those hardly ever have a GIA. I wish they all did...it would be a lot easier when looking. But old cut newer cut aside, here is a prime example there's been an OEC diamond that that has been for sale for a very long time. I am unsure as to why (lower color more than likely) but it's a great price for the size it is--beautiful looking stone too. The diamond was listed as a VVS2 O/P--lower color is more than likely why it doens't sell. The color and clarity were based on a GIA report. I noticed the other day that the price of the diamond rose dramatically-- 68%, so of course I had to take a look. Now the seller has a EGL report and states the diamond is a VS1-2 and a K! :roll:
Is it a loose stone?
Do you by any chance have the GIA report saved, and can you link the stone?
I'm really surprised they downgraded clarity, but VS1-VS2 seems to indicate the stone was set when sent to EGL - which I understand makes colour grading a hazy proposition, given the influence of setting metal colour, so that may explain the giant discrepancy..?
 
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