Why Do We Keep Their Secrets?

[iLander]

As I hear more and more about the harassment that women endure, I can't help but wonder why we keep these things secret when they happen. I had a friend who took a job at an ambulance company and listened to her boss talking dirty to her all the time. I was outraged and ready to out him and tell his boss, but she stopped me. She didn't want to make trouble. This was in the 1970's, when women had no power or respect. It saddens me to see that women appear to be in that same place, 40 FREAKING YEARS LATER!!

This article saddened me, women and staffers being harassed by Congressmen, right now. As we speak.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/14/politics/sexual-harassment-congress/index.html

Do we have to wear body cams 24/7 in case some jackass has the urge to pull out his penis? Maybe we should carry pepper spray at work. Maybe we need to record everything on our phones? Because you know, the word of 50+ women carries no weight against 1 man. (Bill Cosby's trial was a mistrial). We are second class citizens in our own country (especially in Alabama, but that's a different thread). This is f'ing unacceptable and cannot stand.

The only good thing about this is that it's finally coming out; the cretinous behavior of gross men (and of course, some women) is everywhere. They do not deserve to have their secrets kept. WHHHYYYYY do we do it? Maybe when kids are in elementary school we need to teach them about stranger danger AND not to keep secrets. Ever. For anybody.

The only solution I can think of is for women to run for something. Anything. The races for 2018 are wide open now. Did you see the races in Virginia? All kinds of people ran and won! It's time women were represented by 50% in Congress, House, City Councils, Governors, Dog Catchers, I don't care. This is not a Democrat vs Republican thing anymore, it's about women taking their rightful place in the world. You know like other westernized countries, for feck's sake.

EVERY. SINGLE. HOUSE. OF REPRESENTATIVES SEAT IS UP FOR REELECTION IN 2018. ALL OF THEM.

If you can't run, pass it on and encourage your friends, coworkers to run. Contribute to female candidates.

LET'S GRAB THEM BY THE SEATS! #grabthembytheseats

Lots of points to discuss here, so lets hear it. Are you keeping someone's secret? Maybe air it here, type it out, work up the courage to say it out loud to someone that matters. Have you heard someone else's story? Share it, air it. It's time predators become afraid of being outed. Don't forget the #metoo hashtag if you tell it on social media. And don't forget to teach your sons to respect women.

No. More. Secrets.

 

[kenny]

Why?
To keep their jobs.

Again, understanding the reason behind something is not condoning it.

 

[monarch64]

It would ruin the lives of people I love.

 

[TooPatient]

Because when you speak up, nothing happens except people get mad at you.

Since "nothing happened" and "he was just trying to help" and "he's too old/sick and needs us to be there for him"

When your own family tells you that what you described was "no big deal" and you have one family member quit talking to you and then have to see them several times a week until you move and then spend holidays alone because they would rather have him there than you, it sort of discourages you from speaking up about anything that happens.

When life if unstable and miserable and someone does things that make you uncomfortable and are clearly wrong (watching you shower and there is NO LOCK on the bathroom door) but it is still a safer place to be than anywhere else so you don't speak up because you are afraid of losing the safest place you have in your life.

 

[Matata]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...victims-sexual-harassment-come-forward-sooner

 

[monarch64]

TP. Hugs.

 

[Calliecake]

I'm so sorry @TooPatient Hugs

 

[monarch64]

Ahhh. So many reasons.

Protecting others.
Keeping others from being uncomfortable.
Not wanting to be found out as a participant
Not wanting to out anyone else
Not wanting to be part of anything unsavory, period.
Wishing it would just go away.
Knowing that if I told, the dam would break loose, and no one would be spared.

 

[arkieb1]

Add to that if you are a young pretty women you must be asking for that type of attention particularly if you drink or dress in a certain way.... Universities worldwide still frequently uphold date rape culture, and a rhetoric where it must be the girl not the boys fault.

I think the issue is that men are frequently in much higher positions of power than women so they either are perpetrators or are willing to excuse perpetrators because women rights when we are looking at this type of behaviour are seen to matter less. There is a universal boys club of men protecting men and some women protecting men - look at the Donald Trumps behaviour, even on here people wrote that off as "locker room talk" and "boys being boys."

Instead we need to instil in our young men that "real" men don't need to verbally and sexually abuse women and that "locker room talk" and predatory, date rape and sexually abusive behaviour is not masculine and is not on any level acceptable.

I suffered from sexual harassment in my teens and 20s and I'm sure large numbers of women here have experienced the same. It's almost a given if you are young, female and attractive you will have experienced some form of unwanted sexual harassment by men.

 

[valeria101]

.
I haven't.

Conclusion: 'allegations' degrade the matter to nothing - soon to be burried as it ever were ...

 

[chrono]

Because society still believes the men and blames the women.

 

[missy]

Because victims are humiliated and ashamed. It isn't easy to come forward unless one has a strong sense of worth and a strong healthy self image. And even if the individual who is is sexually victimized has a strong self image and good self worth who knows how that could victimization affect that individual? What it could trigger?

Because society doubts the women who come forward and questions them and puts them on trial.

Because the women who have been abused/harrassed/victimized are worried about their future going forward.

Let's be real.
The women have a valid concern. Society (men and women) condemns many of these women and their real abuse and minimize and discount what they have been and continue to go through.

IDK it would give me pause as well. Coming forward has real consequences and it isn't always a clear cut easy decision.

In my heart I think, yes, damn right I would come forward and do whatever I could to get justice. But justice is not a guarantee and everyone has to make the best decision for them at the time.

I just wish all the men who victimize women would be appropriately punished (castration comes to my mind) and then just maybe it would be easier for other women to come forward and get justice for themselves.

I have no room for empathy in my heart for these disgusting men who have all the advantages of power and money and then abuse their privilege to hurt women and forever change them. They are horrible people and deserve a punishment equally as horrible. Unconscionable actions. Deserve equally unconscionable punishment. IMO.

How can we keep future generations from going through this? How can we protect our daughters and sons going forward? And their daughters and sons?

The question is why do these men behave like this and victimize others? And the answer has to be in what they are taught and how they value women and what their moral and ethical upbringing and learning involves. How did they get to be so damaged themselves and so evil in their behavior? How did they rationalize what they were doing was OK? Or do they simply not care? Are they all psychopaths/sociopaths?

Too Patient I am sorry you went though what you did. Arkieb you too. And for all the women here who have experienced this I am sorry. (((Hugs))).

 

[arkieb1]

Because society still believes the men and blames the women.

This exactly - it's not as simple as saying no more secrets, it's about living in a world where men accept responsibility for their actions and where inappropriate behaviour is not tolerated or culturally accepted or overlooked for any reason.

 

[House Cat]

This is MY secret. I keep it for my own personal safety.

 

[CJ2008]

Because in some way you feel you were at least partly at fault...

Maybe you flirted a little...maybe in some way you secretly felt "lucky" to get the male attention, and are ashamed that you didn't do as much as you could / should have done to say no...or to question anything...

So many reasons people (men or women) may not talk...on a personal level I think a lot of it revolves around shame of some sort...on a professional level, fear of repercussion.

 

[metall]

Because too many people are still justifying bad behavior.
Because we blame the victim.
Because there is not enough compassion in the world.
Because the victim was taught to hide his/her shame.
Because the abuser holds more psychological power.
Because we teach our girls to be inferior to our boys.
Because society is accepting of the LGBTQ community.
Because society is not accepting of ALL people.
Because we empower our abusers with a sense to self entitlement.
Because as a society we are moving backwards instead of forward.
Because the nuclear family model is the only family model valued.
Because society is too blind to see what is right in front of them.

The list goes on and on and on as to why victims do not come forward against their abusers. Angry and indignant posts telling victims that they must come out and are safe to come out with their secrets are not going to reach the majority of people who have been hurt in this manner. A few people will be empowered by this to speak out, but the majority will not.

Think of a hurt animal, they will not go to the angriest, loudest person for care. Think of young children, they will not go to an angry parent, even if that parent is angry on their behalf. That child will go to a quiet sibling or a close aunt or uncle whose not involved and angry. Think of kids who won't tell their parents that they're being bullied at school because they know mom or dad will go and make a fuss at school.

Before we can expect everyone whose ever suffered any type of abuse to come forward and be open, our society needs to be ready and open to those stories. Every story that has come out thus far has be accompanied by some form of disbelief, victim blaming, mudslinging, judgement, and/or gas-lighting...we can't expect everyone to be strong enough to face that nor should victims be subjected to it.

 

[cmd2014]

Because abusers choose people who they have power over, who need them as a reference to get another job, to stay in a career that they have worked hard to be in and are good at, to get opportunities for advancement that won't come if they are labeled a troublemaker or a liar or someone who 'misconstrues' things. Because they have power over their victims, over their success or failure in their career, their life, their family. Because men won't believe you and other women will find ways to blame you because it's easier for them than admitting that maybe their husband/son/brother/father did something wrong which might mean that their lives might need to change. Because when push comes to shove, most people will choose self-interest over doing the right thing. Because families often choose the abuser over the victim and call the victim crazy or a liar, and make an apology for the 'false accusation' a condition of being welcome back at family dinners, family events, or holidays (which the victim will be expected to share with their abuser of course). Because mom's choose their husbands/boyfriends/friends/family members/random hook-ups over their children. Because the voters in the United States said it was ok - like it's always been ok for 'boys to be boys' and 'if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.'

It's really hard to come forward when you are still unsafe. When this person can ruin your life. When you know that being a whistleblower never ends well. So the strategic decision is to keep the smile on your face, be smart, avoid what you can, keep moving forward, and get away as soon as you can while maintaining a good enough relationship to get a reference that won't kill your ability to find work/have some reasonable financial support from your family until you can forge a life of your own.

I think coming forward has real costs. Sometimes it's not worth it, especially when justice is far from guaranteed.

 

[Phanie]

Because, culturally girls are being taught very early on that they are "better" when they are quiet, subdued and passive (compare to boys). Being assertive, master of your own life/body/decision are not valued qualities in girls. Girls are more valued if they are smooth riding, not making wave, quiet, sitting pretty, don't use strong voice, etc.
Girls are taught to be pleasers first of all and not autonomous beings with feelings that are ok to have like anger, strength, rage etc.
Girls are taught that they have to be peaceful, keep the peace, being the soothing force in life.
I know I might be exaggerating in my word choice but ALL OVER THE WORLD , girls are told to shut up and put up very early on. They are told to respect authority more than boys, not to be rebellious and are rewarded more when they are following those principles.
When girls are put in a position of being abused, even if no words are spoken explicitly to them, they will not "fight" or report. Because they have been conditioned to 1-ignore,2-accept. 3-dismiss/rationalize. 4-it is normal. 5-I do what needs to be done and what is expected of me not what I need.
Girls are taught to not being assertive as much as boys and not to defend themselves with as much force as boys.
Girls should not be disruptive. Girls are taught and expected to be nice.

Early on, the words of girls are minimized. Boys can be assertive and strong and opinionated and it is good, when a girl displays the same attitude, she is deemed difficult and bossy.
SO no wonder, female are not telling when they are abused.
very early on, girls are taught that "boys will be boys" and that is normal, and that girls should be gentle.
As long as girls are going to be conditioned that their actions/reactions to boy/male behaviors/actions should be gentle (I am reducing to the minimum concept her), female will have the hardest time to know that sexual harassment and abuse are not OK and that they don't have to accept it and that they are not responsible for it in any way shape or form. And that not wanting to get the other in trouble is not a good reason enough. That telling your version will be respected and not dismissed. That telling your story will not get you retaliations and being branded a tattletale. etc.

As long as boys are going to be told that they are stronger and that it is better.
As long as "boys will be boys".

I will tell you a story that happened to me. My mom raised me to be a strong independant woman ( because she experienced divorce early on due o abuse and that she had to fight tooth and nail to survive). I was in nursing school , in my early twenties. A chief of surgery 60+yo famous man assaulted me in plain view with no qualm. Because he could because nobody never really told him to stop even when victims told on him. But that time, It was worse because I punched him in the face (my reflexes kicked in) and people were around (like 2 feet away). He pushed all of himself against me in a tiny hallway and grabbed my ass, I turned around and punched him. I got threatened by him right away (me low life nursing student punching him Godlike best surgeon in France) but my chief nurse was right there and SAW IT (she was just behind him). I called he union to protect me but he got called in by the administration and since it was just not just my words against ALL of him (reputation, power, money, etc, ...) I was vindicated. He only had to take a month vacation until I was done in the unit with my practicum, but he was told to get ange management and to never alone with a female in the unit ever again. Because I threatened to go to the police and ruin the hospital reputation and his. It was hard but I had a witness and she was well regarded professionally. Otherwise I would have been toast.

 

[TooPatient]

Because in some way you feel you were at least partly at fault...

Maybe you flirted a little...maybe in some way you secretly felt "lucky" to get the male attention, and are ashamed that you didn't do as much as you could / should have done to say no...or to question anything...

So many reasons people (men or women) may not talk...on a personal level I think a lot of it revolves around shame of some sort...on a professional level, fear of repercussion.

This too.

Why was I alone in this man's home with him? I got that when I tried to tell. He had called next door (where I was) and needed lunch brought over. Grandma had told me he might call and I should take it over if she wasn't there.
No one cared. The couple of people who I told said I shouldn't have been there.

The other guy...
I was in the bathroom attached to his bedroom so it was my fault for being there. Looking back, I know it wasn't my fault. He was my grandfather. I was staying there for a couple of days since my father didn't want to see us. But then, it felt like my fault. I didn't want to not get to see my grandma (not the one with the lunch guy) because I made the mistake of being in his bathroom.

I knew I couldn't say anything because no one would do anything. In the one case where I did say something, people were mad at me and he was seen as the victim.

This is a difficult topic for me. I don't know how to fix it other than to make sure people know that I am a safe person to talk to and that I won't blame them.

 

[Phanie]

This too.

Why was I alone in this man's home with him? I got that when I tried to tell. He had called next door (where I was) and needed lunch brought over. Grandma had told me he might call and I should take it over if she wasn't there.
No one cared. The couple of people who I told said I shouldn't have been there.

The other guy...
I was in the bathroom attached to his bedroom so it was my fault for being there. Looking back, I know it wasn't my fault. He was my grandfather. I was staying there for a couple of days since my father didn't want to see us. But then, it felt like my fault. I didn't want to not get to see my grandma (not the one with the lunch guy) because I made the mistake of being in his bathroom.

I knew I couldn't say anything because no one would do anything. In the one case where I did say something, people were mad at me and he was seen as the victim.

This is a difficult topic for me. I don't know how to fix it other than to make sure people know that I am a safe person to talk to and that I won't blame them.

TooPatient it is safe to speak now and to us. You have found here (I hope) a space where people will open up their arms and be telling you you are not to blame for any of this, even more so since you were a CHILD. I wish I could hug you right now.
Hope to see you tomorrow.

 

[luv2sparkle]

I am so sorry, TooPatient. That is messed up on every level. You should have been believed and protected and the man should have been dealt with harshly.
While I understand why women wouldn't want to make things public, for many reasons, I am thankful that so many are standing up now and saying what goes on in the movie business. Maybe it will start the change the way things are.

 

[TooPatient]

Thank you both. Yes, it was SO SO wrong. I mostly knew that even then so was very hurt with the reaction I got. Over the years after, I just got to realize even more how very wrong it was and the people I should have been able to trust weren't able to he counted on.

I am doing well now and actually told a couple of people about my grandfather now that my grandma is gone and I got to hear more about what others in the family went through with him.

I truly hope that the attention on all this going on in Hollywood (and beyond) will force people to recognize how serious and not okay such behavior is. People should feel safe coming forward when something happens rather than hiding it in fear or shame. People need to be held accountable for their actions.

I also feel like women who make false claims (such as a couple of women who admitted recently they made it up because they were mad) need to be dealt with through mental health or criminal depending on what they need. I have heard too many people say they aren't in support of stronger punishments because so many women lie and "you can never really know" so should go easy except in extreme cases.
(Fwiw, I feel like most women are being honest when they come forward and people just don't want to admit the issue is as wide spread as it is! Just saying that a small handful who lie are making it more difficult for everyone who has actually been violated.)

 

[Calliecake]

I wish I felt we could make drastic changes. I pretty much gave up hope when the country elected Trump as President and 52% of white woman voted for him. We all heard Trump say in his own words what he did to women. IMO that was a clear picture of where we are in this country.

They showed Moore on TV last night refusing to answering any questions from reporters and who did he have standing at the podium... you guessed it, a woman. She acted like his guard dog. The man preyed on teenage girls and yesterday he had an older woman deflecting questions meant for his spineless ass. He didn't answer one question. Moore and his wife just stood there grinning. Tonight there were women interviewed saying they were going to vote for him regardless of what has been revealed. His wife gave a statement (while surrounded by women who were clapping) saying he will not step down. It's disgusting.

It's been reported the number of women running for local offices has increased tremendously. Hopefully this will help bring about change.

Regarding sexual harassment in the office, I believe many women have kept quite because they felt it wasn't worth destroying their careers over, especially if you are supporting yourself and need the job.

Reporting sexual assault is hard. I don't know any women who wants to be questioned in an emergency room by multiple police officers who are usher out by a doctor who is there to perform a rape kit. Then days later subject yourself to hours of questions by detectives as you describe every detail of the worst night of your life.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Yes, I agree reporting incidents of sexual assault can be hard and I do wish women would be able to have others believe them.

At a pajama party at a friends house when I was about 15 or 16, the friends father went into one of the rooms and tried to kiss and touch my best friend. It so happened that I slept in the room with the molesters daughter so I didn't see the incident. My best friend told him to get away, which he did, but the next day my best friend told her parents, who called police. The police found he had a record of sexually molesting another person. However, they would not bring charges as they said nothing really happened. But, we were warned to stay away from his house. The daughter, who I still am in contact with never knew and we would never tell her. While it was a scary incident my best friend was not traumatized by it, which leads me to my next point.

Are we going to equate all actions with the same fervor?. Some guy kisses you, some guy pushes you up against a wall, some guy grabs under your skirt, some guy rapes you. To me they are not all equal. We have to tell, but all behaviors are not equal. I would like to tell many of you, but I suspect your husbands and sons are guilty of some of these behaviors. Some behaviors are disgusting, if not criminal, but a guy grabs you and kisses you and you're so traumatized?

Out your grandfathers and attackers, but lets have some lines in the sand before we wreck careers of men needlessly.

Annette

 

[TooPatient]

Hi,

Yes, I agree reporting incidents of sexual assault can be hard and I do wish women would be able to have others believe them.

At a pajama party at a friends house when I was about 15 or 16, the friends father went into one of the rooms and tried to kiss and touch my best friend. It so happened that I slept in the room with the molesters daughter so I didn't see the incident. My best friend told him to get away, which he did, but the next day my best friend told her parents, who called police. The police found he had a record of sexually molesting another person. However, they would not bring charges as they said nothing really happened. But, we were warned to stay away from his house. The daughter, who I still am in contact with never knew and we would never tell her. While it was a scary incident my best friend was not traumatized by it, which leads me to my next point.

Are we going to equate all actions with the same fervor?. Some guy kisses you, some guy pushes you up against a wall, some guy grabs under your skirt, some guy rapes you. To me they are not all equal. We have to tell, but all behaviors are not equal. I would like to tell many of you, but I suspect your husbands and sons are guilty of some of these behaviors. Some behaviors are disgusting, if not criminal, but a guy grabs you and kisses you and you're so traumatized?

Out your grandfathers and attackers, but lets have some lines in the sand before we wreck careers of men needlessly.

Annette

Annette,

Your point about different levels of wrong is something I have been thinking about too. I agree that there are so many different degrees of wrong. Some where a warning to not do that again might be sufficient all the way up to severe penalties and so many layers in between.

A co-worker was upset last week because she was "sexually harassed" because someone told her she should smile sometimes. I know her. This is not a case of more to the story. She really is the sort of person to be mad over ANYTHING and, if it is said by a man, it is automatically classified by her as sexual harassment.

How do we handle that sort of thing without minimizing what others have been through?
I really don't know a good answer.

I also know that something super innocent can be much much more depending on the context and back story so it can't even be cleanly divided based on actions alone.

 

[telephone89]

ilu all <3<3 I have no words.

It would ruin the lives of people I love.

Because when you speak up, nothing happens except people get mad at you.

Since "nothing happened" and "he was just trying to help" and "he's too old/sick and needs us to be there for him"

When your own family tells you that what you described was "no big deal" and you have one family member quit talking to you and then have to see them several times a week until you move and then spend holidays alone because they would rather have him there than you, it sort of discourages you from speaking up about anything that happens.

When life if unstable and miserable and someone does things that make you uncomfortable and are clearly wrong (watching you shower and there is NO LOCK on the bathroom door) but it is still a safer place to be than anywhere else so you don't speak up because you are afraid of losing the safest place you have in your life.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...victims-sexual-harassment-come-forward-sooner

I'm so sorry @TooPatient Hugs

Add to that if you are a young pretty women you must be asking for that type of attention particularly if you drink or dress in a certain way.... Universities worldwide still frequently uphold date rape culture, and a rhetoric where it must be the girl not the boys fault.

I think the issue is that men are frequently in much higher positions of power than women so they either are perpetrators or are willing to excuse perpetrators because women rights when we are looking at this type of behaviour are seen to matter less. There is a universal boys club of men protecting men and some women protecting men - look at the Donald Trumps behaviour, even on here people wrote that off as "locker room talk" and "boys being boys."

Instead we need to instil in our young men that "real" men don't need to verbally and sexually abuse women and that "locker room talk" and predatory, date rape and sexually abusive behaviour is not masculine and is not on any level acceptable.

I suffered from sexual harassment in my teens and 20s and I'm sure large numbers of women here have experienced the same. It's almost a given if you are young, female and attractive you will have experienced some form of unwanted sexual harassment by men.

.
I haven't.

Conclusion: 'allegations' degrade the matter to nothing - soon to be burried as it ever were ...

Because society still believes the men and blames the women.

Because victims are humiliated and ashamed. It isn't easy to come forward unless one has a strong sense of worth and a strong healthy self image. And even if the individual who is is sexually victimized has a strong self image and good self worth who knows how that could victimization affect that individual? What it could trigger?

Because society doubts the women who come forward and questions them and puts them on trial.

Because the women who have been abused/harrassed/victimized are worried about their future going forward.

Let's be real.
The women have a valid concern. Society (men and women) condemns many of these women and their real abuse and minimize and discount what they have been and continue to go through.

IDK it would give me pause as well. Coming forward has real consequences and it isn't always a clear cut easy decision.

In my heart I think, yes, damn right I would come forward and do whatever I could to get justice. But justice is not a guarantee and everyone has to make the best decision for them at the time.

I just wish all the men who victimize women would be appropriately punished (castration comes to my mind) and then just maybe it would be easier for other women to come forward and get justice for themselves.

I have no room for empathy in my heart for these disgusting men who have all the advantages of power and money and then abuse their privilege to hurt women and forever change them. They are horrible people and deserve a punishment equally as horrible. Unconscionable actions. Deserve equally unconscionable punishment. IMO.

How can we keep future generations from going through this? How can we protect our daughters and sons going forward? And their daughters and sons?

The question is why do these men behave like this and victimize others? And the answer has to be in what they are taught and how they value women and what their moral and ethical upbringing and learning involves. How did they get to be so damaged themselves and so evil in their behavior? How did they rationalize what they were doing was OK? Or do they simply not care? Are they all psychopaths/sociopaths?

Too Patient I am sorry you went though what you did. Arkieb you too. And for all the women here who have experienced this I am sorry. (((Hugs))).

This is MY secret. I keep it for my own personal safety.

Because in some way you feel you were at least partly at fault...

Maybe you flirted a little...maybe in some way you secretly felt "lucky" to get the male attention, and are ashamed that you didn't do as much as you could / should have done to say no...or to question anything...

So many reasons people (men or women) may not talk...on a personal level I think a lot of it revolves around shame of some sort...on a professional level, fear of repercussion.

Because too many people are still justifying bad behavior.
Because we blame the victim.
Because there is not enough compassion in the world.
Because the victim was taught to hide his/her shame.
Because the abuser holds more psychological power.
Because we teach our girls to be inferior to our boys.
Because society is accepting of the LGBTQ community.
Because society is not accepting of ALL people.
Because we empower our abusers with a sense to self entitlement.
Because as a society we are moving backwards instead of forward.
Because the nuclear family model is the only family model valued.
Because society is too blind to see what is right in front of them.

The list goes on and on and on as to why victims do not come forward against their abusers. Angry and indignant posts telling victims that they must come out and are safe to come out with their secrets are not going to reach the majority of people who have been hurt in this manner. A few people will be empowered by this to speak out, but the majority will not.

Think of a hurt animal, they will not go to the angriest, loudest person for care. Think of young children, they will not go to an angry parent, even if that parent is angry on their behalf. That child will go to a quiet sibling or a close aunt or uncle whose not involved and angry. Think of kids who won't tell their parents that they're being bullied at school because they know mom or dad will go and make a fuss at school.

Before we can expect everyone whose ever suffered any type of abuse to come forward and be open, our society needs to be ready and open to those stories. Every story that has come out thus far has be accompanied by some form of disbelief, victim blaming, mudslinging, judgement, and/or gas-lighting...we can't expect everyone to be strong enough to face that nor should victims be subjected to it.

Because abusers choose people who they have power over, who need them as a reference to get another job, to stay in a career that they have worked hard to be in and are good at, to get opportunities for advancement that won't come if they are labeled a troublemaker or a liar or someone who 'misconstrues' things. Because they have power over their victims, over their success or failure in their career, their life, their family. Because men won't believe you and other women will find ways to blame you because it's easier for them than admitting that maybe their husband/son/brother/father did something wrong which might mean that their lives might need to change. Because when push comes to shove, most people will choose self-interest over doing the right thing. Because families often choose the abuser over the victim and call the victim crazy or a liar, and make an apology for the 'false accusation' a condition of being welcome back at family dinners, family events, or holidays (which the victim will be expected to share with their abuser of course). Because mom's choose their husbands/boyfriends/friends/family members/random hook-ups over their children. Because the voters in the United States said it was ok - like it's always been ok for 'boys to be boys' and 'if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.'

It's really hard to come forward when you are still unsafe. When this person can ruin your life. When you know that being a whistleblower never ends well. So the strategic decision is to keep the smile on your face, be smart, avoid what you can, keep moving forward, and get away as soon as you can while maintaining a good enough relationship to get a reference that won't kill your ability to find work/have some reasonable financial support from your family until you can forge a life of your own.

I think coming forward has real costs. Sometimes it's not worth it, especially when justice is far from guaranteed.

Because, culturally girls are being taught very early on that they are "better" when they are quiet, subdued and passive (compare to boys). Being assertive, master of your own life/body/decision are not valued qualities in girls. Girls are more valued if they are smooth riding, not making wave, quiet, sitting pretty, don't use strong voice, etc.
Girls are taught to be pleasers first of all and not autonomous beings with feelings that are ok to have like anger, strength, rage etc.
Girls are taught that they have to be peaceful, keep the peace, being the soothing force in life.
I know I might be exaggerating in my word choice but ALL OVER THE WORLD , girls are told to shut up and put up very early on. They are told to respect authority more than boys, not to be rebellious and are rewarded more when they are following those principles.
When girls are put in a position of being abused, even if no words are spoken explicitly to them, they will not "fight" or report. Because they have been conditioned to 1-ignore,2-accept. 3-dismiss/rationalize. 4-it is normal. 5-I do what needs to be done and what is expected of me not what I need.
Girls are taught to not being assertive as much as boys and not to defend themselves with as much force as boys.
Girls should not be disruptive. Girls are taught and expected to be nice.

Early on, the words of girls are minimized. Boys can be assertive and strong and opinionated and it is good, when a girl displays the same attitude, she is deemed difficult and bossy.
SO no wonder, female are not telling when they are abused.
very early on, girls are taught that "boys will be boys" and that is normal, and that girls should be gentle.
As long as girls are going to be conditioned that their actions/reactions to boy/male behaviors/actions should be gentle (I am reducing to the minimum concept her), female will have the hardest time to know that sexual harassment and abuse are not OK and that they don't have to accept it and that they are not responsible for it in any way shape or form. And that not wanting to get the other in trouble is not a good reason enough. That telling your version will be respected and not dismissed. That telling your story will not get you retaliations and being branded a tattletale. etc.

As long as boys are going to be told that they are stronger and that it is better.
As long as "boys will be boys".

I will tell you a story that happened to me. My mom raised me to be a strong independant woman ( because she experienced divorce early on due o abuse and that she had to fight tooth and nail to survive). I was in nursing school , in my early twenties. A chief of surgery 60+yo famous man assaulted me in plain view with no qualm. Because he could because nobody never really told him to stop even when victims told on him. But that time, It was worse because I punched him in the face (my reflexes kicked in) and people were around (like 2 feet away). He pushed all of himself against me in a tiny hallway and grabbed my ass, I turned around and punched him. I got threatened by him right away (me low life nursing student punching him Godlike best surgeon in France) but my chief nurse was right there and SAW IT (she was just behind him). I called he union to protect me but he got called in by the administration and since it was just not just my words against ALL of him (reputation, power, money, etc, ...) I was vindicated. He only had to take a month vacation until I was done in the unit with my practicum, but he was told to get ange management and to never alone with a female in the unit ever again. Because I threatened to go to the police and ruin the hospital reputation and his. It was hard but I had a witness and she was well regarded professionally. Otherwise I would have been toast.

Hi,

Yes, I agree reporting incidents of sexual assault can be hard and I do wish women would be able to have others believe them.

At a pajama party at a friends house when I was about 15 or 16, the friends father went into one of the rooms and tried to kiss and touch my best friend. It so happened that I slept in the room with the molesters daughter so I didn't see the incident. My best friend told him to get away, which he did, but the next day my best friend told her parents, who called police. The police found he had a record of sexually molesting another person. However, they would not bring charges as they said nothing really happened. But, we were warned to stay away from his house. The daughter, who I still am in contact with never knew and we would never tell her. While it was a scary incident my best friend was not traumatized by it, which leads me to my next point.

Are we going to equate all actions with the same fervor?. Some guy kisses you, some guy pushes you up against a wall, some guy grabs under your skirt, some guy rapes you. To me they are not all equal. We have to tell, but all behaviors are not equal. I would like to tell many of you, but I suspect your husbands and sons are guilty of some of these behaviors. Some behaviors are disgusting, if not criminal, but a guy grabs you and kisses you and you're so traumatized?

Out your grandfathers and attackers, but lets have some lines in the sand before we wreck careers of men needlessly.

Annette

 

[Queenie60]

Because when you speak up, nothing happens except people get mad at you.

Since "nothing happened" and "he was just trying to help" and "he's too old/sick and needs us to be there for him"

When your own family tells you that what you described was "no big deal" and you have one family member quit talking to you and then have to see them several times a week until you move and then spend holidays alone because they would rather have him there than you, it sort of discourages you from speaking up about anything that happens.

When life if unstable and miserable and someone does things that make you uncomfortable and are clearly wrong (watching you shower and there is NO LOCK on the bathroom door) but it is still a safer place to be than anywhere else so you don't speak up because you are afraid of losing the safest place you have in your life.

I'm so sorry that you were forced to deal with this and accept it. My heart goes out to you.

 

[monarch64]

My mom turned 75 today. When I was 18 she told me she was raped when she was 21 and discouraged me from wearing certain clothing.

Tonight she called me and during our two hour conversation she said she had never told my father (her husband of 47 years) about her rape. Because he would’ve thought she was “dirty.”

I’m sad to say that I don’t think much has changed.

I’m a survivor of childhood molestation and rape. I refuse to name my repeat assailant, because of more reasons than I can even ever get my head around. Because it’s more painful to me to keep remembering. And because it would make life far worse for people who’ve come into that person’s life who had nothing to do with it and no reason to have any kind of angst. It’s my burden to bear. And it’s my choice just like it’s my choice now what to do with my body.

In some respect I take offense to this thread. I know you mean well, ilander. But maybe you know not what can of worms you open when you suggest that people should always be so open. I hope you are learning. And I fervently hope you’ve never had to experience the absolute shit you’re asking victims to discuss. Sincerely. This is a very very difficult subject, and I applaud those who’ve courageously told their stories here and in other threads.

 

[azstonie]

I've posted in our own "metoo" thread on PS about my experience with sexual assault during my freshman year of college, no need to repeat that. But I do think that my mom had a big impact on how I conducted myself as a woman out in the man's world. When I was 16 years old, a male relative put his hands on me during Thanksgiving IN FRONT OF MY MOM. I thought, "Oh, you're in trouble now, buster!" and I looked over at my mom to see if she was going nuclear and she simply continued to read her magazine. I was in SHOCK. What? The relative smirked at me and walked off. He already knew she wouldn't do anything.

So in the years to follow I just held it all in when men would touch/grab/comment. I made it my business to stay out of reach but every now and then a slippery a$$hole would get past me.

I now wish I'd kicked each and every one of them right in the NUTS immediately. Nothing like immediacy and personal impact when it comes to getting the message across: NO WAY< NOT ME!

 

[azstonie]

For any of us here who have experienced any kind of unwanted contact/assault/etc., or any kind of loss of agency, I recommend Pete Walker's book "Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving." He has a website too. I was misdiagnosed for several decades with periodic depression/anxiety, went through largely useless occasional counseling/no medication. Got little relief because I was misdiagnosed. Soldiered through, thought that was how it was always going to be. Then I got Walker's book and things changed.