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Why do people purchase MMD?

Does anybody have a litebox pendent i could get a close up off ?
Please and thank you ;)2
 
sprinklesparkles said:
Say someone offers you two cookies. Identical. Same ingredients, same flavor, same size, same freshness.

The first costs $1, it's baked by people being paid living wages.

The second is identical in every way, baked by people who may or may not be being exploited, and costs $100.

Which cookie do you buy?
Click to expand...

Also, either cookie, once you've taken a bite out of it no one's likely to pay you much for it, regardless of how special you think it is.

Maybe you'll get 20 cents for the $1 cookie, or $50 for the $100 cookie.

But would you rather have lost $1 or $50 in the end?

I like this analogy. In case you can't tell.
 
sprinklesparkles said:
Also, either cookie, once you've taken a bite out of it no one's likely to pay you much for it, regardless of how special you think it is.

Maybe you'll get 20 cents for the $1 cookie, or $50 for the $100 cookie.

But would you rather have lost $1 or $50 in the end?

I like this analogy. In case you can't tell.
Click to expand...

I had a $1.99 packet chocolate mouse last night
it made 2 serves
it was surprising good
The OH couldn't tell the difference from one 6 times as exspensive
Im buying it again !
 
1ofakind said:
No you were right! There is a pierced diamond pendant and earrings! I’ve only had one glass of wine (no martinis) but I swear they are real. Lol
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I was sure i wasn't making it up and i had read it somewhere
thank you
 

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Definitely just economics for me. I've enjoyed my share of gorgeous earth mined stones and to fulfil my desire to have an Asscher cut of a decent size and clarity, I'll be turning to lab grown for sure.
 
I don't know where the idea that MMD have no ethical concerns came from. The stones are still cut by low wage workers in third world countries. How you feel about that is personal, of course.
 
sprinklesparkles said:
Say someone offers you two cookies. Identical. Same ingredients, same flavor, same size, same freshness.

The first costs $1, it's baked by people being paid living wages.

The second is identical in every way, baked by people who may or may not be being exploited, and costs $100.

Which cookie do you buy?
Click to expand...

It is willfully-uneducated proselytizing like this that fuels blood diamond propaganda.

Diamonds have destroyed Zimbabwe lives. Many establishments, big and small, eschew Zimbabwe diamonds. Blue Nile and CBI come first to mind.

Diamonds have created and supported Botswana lives - the diamond trade has funded infrastructure, education, healthcare. Diamond mines guarantee Inuit employment in the Canadian Northwest Territories that would be otherwise impossible to procure. Success is of course predicated on governing authorities choosing to use revenue in ways that benefit the community.

How, precisely, do you guarantee that MMD creators and cutters have reasonable working conditions and are making a minimum/living wage? (Rhetorical - you don’t). What is the environmental impact of creating MMDs at scale? (Again, rhetorical - we don’t know yet).

Everyone needs to make decisions that they’re comfortable with. But swallowing the party line and regurgitating it does not constitute ethical, self-aware decision-making.

If ethics are truly top priority, then in mid-2020
A) Choosing a preloved stone ensures that you, personally, are not contributing to others’ exploitation, and
B) Choosing a mined stone from a trustworthy company that provides sourcing information and guarantees that all people in its source-to-sale pipeline are paid fairly takes “do no harm” a step further by actively benefitting societies that rely on that income.
 
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yssie said:
It is willfully-uneducated proselytizing like this that fuels blood diamond propaganda.
Diamonds have destroyed Zimbabwe lives. Many establishments, big and small, eschew Zimbabwe diamonds. Blue Nile and CBI come first to mind.
Diamonds have created and supported Botswana lives - the diamond trade has funded infrastructure, education, healthcare. Diamond mines guarantee Inuit employment in the Canadian Northwest Territories that would be otherwise impossible to procure. Success is of course predicated on governing authorities choosing to use revenue in ways that benefit the community.

How, precisely, do you guarantee that MMD creators and cutters have reasonable working conditions and are making a minimum/living wage? (Rhetorical - you don’t). What is the environmental impact of creating MMDs at scale? (Again, rhetorical - we don’t know yet).

Everyone needs to make decisions that they’re comfortable with. But swallowing the party line and regurgitating it does not constitute ethical, self-aware decision-making.

If ethics are truly top priority, then in mid-2020
A) Choosing a preloved stone ensures that you, personally, are not contributing to others’ exploitation, and
B) Choosing a mined stone from a trustworthy company that provides sourcing information and guarantees that all people in its source-to-sale pipeline are paid fairly takes “do no harm” a step further by actively benefitting societies that rely on that income.
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Thanks for the balanced view Yssie. I wrote this for our sales people because they are getting these questions - it seems the marketing campaigns of man made diamond budgets are very effective - but it does not make them true or accurate

1. We welcome back our diamonds from clients. We often get them back as trade-ups. We give full credit for what was paid for them. We can’t do that for man-made diamonds - they are falling in value.

2. De Beers are making and selling all carat weights of diamonds for US$800 per carat. Other factories prices are based on natural diamond rarity. A 2ct diamond costs 4 times more per carat than a half carat diamond. That is 4 times more than De Beers pricing. When De Beers finish their new factory in Oregon USA, prices will plummet! 2ct high color and clarity diamonds will cost one tenth - yes 10% - of what many comapnies are selling man made diamonds for.

3. We do not want to risk making a mistake by mixing factory grown diamonds with our natural diamonds.

4. Much of the marketing around factory grown diamonds is unethical. Even the name. These diamonds are grown in huge factories, not 'labs'. Google images of it.

5. 1 million African and Brazilian artisanal diamond miner’s livelihoods depend on natural diamonds. Skilled engineers plan cutting and polishing of natural diamonds in India. Synthetic diamonds need only low skilled polishing workers or robotics. No inclusions to cut around or misshapen rough.

6. Companies that claim to turn your loved one’s ashes into a diamond buy a synthetic diamond and throw out the ashes. We discovered cheating here in this very forum a decade ago.

7. The cheapest method grows a diamond layer by layer. The growth planes make the diamonds dull. It may take a decade to improve manufacturing quality. Diamond grading labs have no measures for transparency.

8. Claims that manufactured diamonds are environmentally friendly do not pass audits. The machinery is energy intensive. India and China manufacture’s use coal fired electricity. De Beers chose Oregon because that state has an amazing amount of cheap hydro power.

What is the difference? Visually none. With a jewellers loupe, none except for some with have metallic inclusions (catalyst). They are magnetic.
1595822881418.png

Can I be sure your diamonds are natural? Natural diamonds have nitrogen impurities (99% are Type I). We identify fakes in minutes. Screening tools range from a few hundred to several thousand dollars. Labs like GIA screen out synthetic diamonds. This image is taken by our gemologists using a high powered long and short wave UV testing device. Gemtrix scanning about 100 natural 0.01ct diamonds in a few seconds.

1595823153355.png
Are your diamonds blood/conflict diamonds? We buy our diamonds from members of the Responsible Jewellery Council. We were the first Australian firm to pass the RJC audit, even before Rio Tinto. Rio were foundation members along with the who’s who like Tiffany and Cartier. Whenever we deal with a new RJC supplier they audit us with a several page form. They only sell to ethical clients.

Is child labour used? As an expert diamond cut consultant, I have visited most of the factories where our diamonds are polished. Incomes are 5 to 10 times above average. Workers are highly skilled. A lot of technology and processes are used (including my cut grading tools). There are children involved in African artisanal mining. The same children work in village fields. We support the Diamond Development Initiative. DDI lobbied governments to allow children to become registered and licensed. That makes AIDs and other orphans and the poor safer from abuse.
1595823237639.png
 
lyra said:
I like rocks. I have none of these and would like to have some to compare. Of course price helps immensely. I would like to see prices come down some more though. I still can't afford something the size I'd like, which would be about 2 carats. Just slightly bigger than my ER, but an OEC cut. I have dreams. I usually only buy vintage, that is my first love.
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Lyra, a little thread hijack...can you tell me about your adorable avatar?
 
dk168 said:
They are physically and chemically the same as earth diamonds yet significantly cheaper.

I have not bought one yet though, however, if I were to get one, it would be an OEC and/or a Heart cut.

DK :))
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I have always wondered: if physically and chemically the same, can - once on the marked - be told, if a stone is created by nature or in a lab?
 
Roselina said:
I have always wondered: if physically and chemically the same, can - once on the marked - be told, if a stone is created by nature or in a lab?
Click to expand...

I am not an expert and could be wrong, however I believe MMDs would be like lab grown CSs, in that experts can spot the growth lines etc. under high magnifications.

DK :))
 
Long time lab diamond consumer here. I used to believe I had some assurance that lab diamonds were ethically sourced because most producers were in the United States until recently. If mined diamond sellers continue to improve transparency by adopting blockchain technology and the proliferation of diamond lab producers overseas continue to make lab diamond manufacturing more opaque, then my next major purchase, perhaps for a milestone, will likely be a mined diamond.

Both industries need to improve their transparency game. As do many non-gem industries.
 
Garry H (Cut Nut) said:
2. De Beers are making and selling all carat weights of diamonds for US$800 per carat. Other factories prices are based on natural diamond rarity. A 2ct diamond costs 4 times more per carat than a half carat diamond. That is 4 times more than De Beers pricing. When De Beers finish their new factory in Oregon USA, prices will plummet! 2ct high color and clarity diamonds will cost one tenth - yes 10% - of what many comapnies are selling man made diamonds for.

5. 1 million African and Brazilian artisanal diamond miner’s livelihoods depend on natural diamonds. Skilled engineers plan cutting and polishing of natural diamonds in India. Synthetic diamonds need only low skilled polishing workers or robotics. No inclusions to cut around or misshapen rough.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your detailed reply, Garry :))

May I ask a couple of (annoying :P lol) questions about 2 and 5 in the list?


2 -
Do we know if De Beers / Lightbox will create 2ct MMDs? Their position to date has been 'nothing over a carat' and so far they have been very slow to even get to that 1ct mark (without a drilled hole in it) so 2ct would be a substantial change in position!

It is fair to say, though, that 2ct MMD in G+ VVS specs and even reasonable cut would be considerably below the rest of the market's offerings to date :)


5 -
I recall that there are 'auto blocking' machines now, to remove the initial stages of the rough-to-polished process and reduce costs somewhat (in both MMD and Mined??) but are the sort of cuts we on PS would prefer within the capabilities of 'low skilled polishing workers'?

I think this question also relates to my other ramblings recently posted re: custom cutting/ordering MMDs - in that if we get to the point that MMDs can be ordered with whatever Ct/Colour/Clarity we might like, and to whatever angles and grading standard we wanted, all done by a machine that has the required numbers plugged into it, that would be an incredible opportunity to get what works well and to experiment as well :) albeit at the risk of jobs in the countries that such processing currently takes place. (Of course, if MMD is an additional market segment, rather than a replacement market segment, then surely that is win-win for everyone!)

[/off topic]
 
Because they can be fireballs, cheaper and ethical. Same reason people buy synthetic sapphires, emeralds etc. I'd love one my self.
 
Daisys and Diamonds said:
Phew i thoughf i was lossing my mind
I will dedinatly check out that thread ASAP
I wonder why lightbox won't ship to NZ ?
A worry for another day
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Someone asked their jeweler about using the pierced stone for a ring, and the jeweler replied that dirt would collect in the hole once the piercing was removed, making the stone look cloudy. I can't find the thread now, but I remember reading it a few weeks ago.
 
For me, cost is the only factor. Diamonds are luxury goods, and my jewelry purchases fall within my discretionary spending budget. I recently purchased a Lightbox pink diamond pendant during the Bloomies sale because the price was excellent, and foregoing a mined pink diamond left me with enough room in my budget for an exquisite pair of antique pearl earrings and a miner's cut diamond ring.

Take any luxury item: handbags, for example. Everyone has their floor and their ceiling. Personally, I wouldn't buy a Birkin when I could get four or five Chanels and/or Goyards for the same price. Others feel differently. To each her own.
 
OoohShiny said:
Thanks for your detailed reply, Garry :))

May I ask a couple of (annoying :razz: lol) questions about 2 and 5 in the list?


2 -
Do we know if De Beers / Lightbox will create 2ct MMDs? Their position to date has been 'nothing over a carat' and so far they have been very slow to even get to that 1ct mark (without a drilled hole in it) so 2ct would be a substantial change in position!

It is fair to say, though, that 2ct MMD in G+ VVS specs and even reasonable cut would be considerably below the rest of the market's offerings to date :)


5 -
I recall that there are 'auto blocking' machines now, to remove the initial stages of the rough-to-polished process and reduce costs somewhat (in both MMD and Mined??) but are the sort of cuts we on PS would prefer within the capabilities of 'low skilled polishing workers'?

I think this question also relates to my other ramblings recently posted re: custom cutting/ordering MMDs - in that if we get to the point that MMDs can be ordered with whatever Ct/Colour/Clarity we might like, and to whatever angles and grading standard we wanted, all done by a machine that has the required numbers plugged into it, that would be an incredible opportunity to get what works well and to experiment as well :) albeit at the risk of jobs in the countries that such processing currently takes place. (Of course, if MMD is an additional market segment, rather than a replacement market segment, then surely that is win-win for everyone!)

[/off topic]
Click to expand...
Thanks for your detailed reply, Garry :))

May I ask a couple of (annoying :razz: lol) questions about 2 and 5 in the list?


2 -
Do we know if De Beers / Lightbox will create 2ct MMDs? Their position to date has been 'nothing over a carat' and so far they have been very slow to even get to that 1ct mark (without a drilled hole in it) so 2ct would be a substantial change in position!
I believe so OS
It is fair to say, though, that 2ct MMD in G+ VVS specs and even reasonable cut would be considerably below the rest of the market's offerings to date :)
When Andrey and I attended a LightBox presentation in Vegas last year they claimed they were manufacturing to +G +VS standards. Remeber De Beers have begun suing companies for breaching their patents - and they have the best technology and experience in this space (along with GE and Sumitomo). And it is for that reason they do not see the point in grading certificates for a manufactured rpoduct - imagine a certificate for shoes or handbags to prove its leather????

5 -
I recall that there are 'auto blocking' machines now, to remove the initial stages of the rough-to-polished process and reduce costs somewhat (in both MMD and Mined??) but are the sort of cuts we on PS would prefer within the capabilities of 'low skilled polishing workers'?
Autoblocking for the 8 main crown and pavilion facets is used in some high end stones too because the final stage of brillianteering is still done by hand. Although Sergey and Co are working on all that technology too.

I think this question also relates to my other ramblings recently posted re: custom cutting/ordering MMDs - in that if we get to the point that MMDs can be ordered with whatever Ct/Colour/Clarity we might like, and to whatever angles and grading standard we wanted, all done by a machine that has the required numbers plugged into it, that would be an incredible opportunity to get what works well and to experiment as well :) albeit at the risk of jobs in the countries that such processing currently takes place. (Of course, if MMD is an additional market segment, rather than a replacement market segment, then surely that is win-win for everyone!)
I think that is the main point - De Beers see this as a costume self purchase bling market.
When I read many of the posts here that seems to be fairly true.
Sure some tech head nerds will propose with a man made diamond - and good luck to them and I hope their brides dreams come true. But by and large it does not seem that too many Joe in the street blokes are going to fall into that trap ;-)
 
Thanks, Garry! :)


Garry H (Cut Nut) said:
It is fair to say, though, that 2ct MMD in G+ VVS specs and even reasonable cut would be considerably below the rest of the market's offerings to date :)
When Andrey and I attended a LightBox presentation in Vegas last year they claimed they were manufacturing to +G +VS standards. Remeber De Beers have begun suing companies for breaching their patents - and they have the best technology and experience in this space (along with GE and Sumitomo). And it is for that reason they do not see the point in grading certificates for a manufactured rpoduct - imagine a certificate for shoes or handbags to prove its leather????
Click to expand...

Reading my wording back, I think I missed some words out and have made my comment confusing :lol: lol

What I should have said was "It is fair to say, though, that 2ct MMD in G+ VVS specs and even reasonable cut would be considerably below the rest of the market's offerings to date in terms of price" - in that 2ct stones with high colour/clarity for $1600 will sell like hot cakes! :D
 
the other day I heard someone say, "maybe diamonds are deep within the earth because mother nature doesnt want us taking them" and I agreed hahaha. Cost, ethical aspects, and the fact that it IS still a diamond. I just think spending so much on an earth diamond is pointless, JUST to be able to say that it came from the earth. A diamond is a diamond to me. Also, CZ is not a diamond at all. lab diamonds ARE real diamonds. The source is just different.
 
makb1029 said:
the other day I heard someone say, "maybe diamonds are deep within the earth because mother nature doesnt want us taking them" and I agreed hahaha. Cost, ethical aspects, and the fact that it IS still a diamond. I just think spending so much on an earth diamond is pointless, JUST to be able to say that it came from the earth. A diamond is a diamond to me. Also, CZ is not a diamond at all. lab diamonds ARE real diamonds. The source is just different.
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That quote is cracking me up. :lol::lol::lol: I am actually crying from laughing.
 
Years ago i had a friend who was a safety inspector of mines in South Africa
I went out with him into the field to visit some of the smaller diamond outfits and where they were working. i did see some rough in someone's hand.
I don't remenber seeing a huge hole in the ground so i don't think all earth diamonds are found by man deep in the earth

Weren't there a beaches in South West Africa where they used to just wash up on the sand ?

www.thediamondloupe.com

A Visit To the Sperrgebiet: Namibia's Forbidden Diamond Area

In southwestern Namibia lies a vast area - now a national park - that has been off-limits to visitors for more than a century. It stretches along the Namibian coast for a distance of 200 miles starting from the South African border at Oranjemund to around 72 km north of Lüderitz.
www.thediamondloupe.com www.thediamondloupe.com
 
Daisys and Diamonds said:
Years ago i had a friend who was a safety inspector of mines in South Africa
I went out with him into the field to visit some of the smaller diamond outfits and where they were working. i did see some rough in someone's hand.
I don't remenber seeing a huge hole in the ground so i don't think all earth diamonds are found by man deep in the earth

Weren't there a beaches in South West Africa where they used to just wash up on the sand ?

www.thediamondloupe.com

A Visit To the Sperrgebiet: Namibia's Forbidden Diamond Area

In southwestern Namibia lies a vast area - now a national park - that has been off-limits to visitors for more than a century. It stretches along the Namibian coast for a distance of 200 miles starting from the South African border at Oranjemund to around 72 km north of Lüderitz.
www.thediamondloupe.com www.thediamondloupe.com
Click to expand...
There are alluvial and hard rock diamond mines. Both cause environmental issues if not properly managed and reinstated after mining. But in comparison to almost everything else we mine the damage and size of mining activities are tiny.
The mining of materials used in phones and batteries are far more dangerous because they are toxic.
Gold miners in poor countries use cyanide to extract gold causing huge issues when they have spills or just bad management.
Iron ore mines can be seen from the moon.
But we want cars and phones and stuff.
(me geologist)
 
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