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Why did/would you pick AVR/AVC over antique, or vice versa?

C

camomof4

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 5, 2015
Messages
64
I'd be interested to hear from those of you who have purchased, seen, and/or considered an August Vintage Round (or August Vintage Cushion) diamond vis=a=vis an antique stone (OEC, cushion). I love the light return and facet patterns of the AVR. On the other hand, I love the charm and the idea of a true antique.

For those of you who have chosen one over the other (or who have seen both and can offer an opinion) - What made you choose one over the other? Did the OECs pale by comparison in terms of performance? On the other hand, did the AVR/AVCss seem "too" perfect?

DS, hoping you (and others!) will chime in here! 8)

Thanks!
 
Re: Why did/would you pick AVR/AVC over antique, or vice ver

I have all 3 - a true OEC, an AVC and a small AVR. I inherited my OEC, and luckily it seems to have decent light performance. I've seen it under an idealscope, and it looks good - but the symmetry is off of course. That said, my eye has always been drawn to symmetrical things - so the AVC/AVR type stones look good to me in that respect. I like the uniformity of the patterns, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the uniqueness of the OEC. It was my love for it that drove into the AV world - if I can have top of the line optics in an old style cut that sounds like a match made in heaven!

That was no help at all, was it? :)
 
Re: Why did/would you pick AVR/AVC over antique, or vice ver

It's definitely personal preference. I'm an orderly person so the fact that some OECs and OEMs aren't always symmetrical bothered me, and having a centered cutlet was important to me too. And it can be challenging to find a higher color OEC which is what I wanted. I looked but didn't find a real OEC that made me happy. I highly recommend Jewels By Grace though - her videos that show light performance are awesome!

So I chose a newly-cut "antique" cushion. The August Vintage brand didn't have anything in my preferred color range at the time, and VC's Canera Antique Cushion was out of budget in my color range. I found a Leon Mege True Antique cushion that fit my criteria (note he doesn't provide ASETs, etc but it's performance did not disappoint).
 
Re: Why did/would you pick AVR/AVC over antique, or vice ver

I have an AVC but after seeing all these pretty OEC, started the hunt for one. Saw some around town, had a couple shipped to me but none of them performed as well as my AVC.... they were gorgeous but was moody when/how they would turn on. I was spoilt with the AVC that was always on for a show. I am sure they are gorgeous perfect oecs to be found but I was not lucky or patient enough to hunt for these rare stones. I would love to own a AVR but cannot afford the premium $$ for these babies :blackeye: so ended up with a RB. Hopefully one day I will be lucky enough to own an AVR..... ;))
 
Re: Why did/would you pick AVR/AVC over antique, or vice ver

I bought an AVR because I was shopping online, never bought a diamond before and hadn't seen an OEC in real life. AVR seemed a safer buy with all the ASETs and other reports and rhino's videos and excellent customer service. I just bought an OEC from OWD and it's being set right now. I'll get to see it for the first time in about a month and then perhaps I can give you a much better answer. Sorry I couldn't give you a more helpful answer.
 
Re: Why did/would you pick AVR/AVC over antique, or vice ver

I wrote a post last night and when I went to submit it, PS was down! So I will try to rewrite it!

I agreed with what ecf said very well. I would just add that as I have gotten older, I appreciate fine quality jewelry in general as I plan to leave heirlooms to my daughters and their daughters. With every piece I buy, I keep that in mind. In fact it is smart to buy quality in everything, as far as I am concerned.

Are there fine quality antique stones? Of course. They are just harder to find. I would not buy a wonky OEC and call it charming any more than I would buy a "good" cut mrb and call it charming. I will post a couple of pictures of hundred year old Tiffany and Cartier rings to show that there were great diamond cutters a hundred years ago, so there is no reason to buy a less than a top cut stone no matter when the stone was cut. But because of the rarity of the fine old cuts, I decided to buy an AVR, although they are rare, too, and finding one in the right size, color, and clarity was not easy. The one I eventually bought was cut by a master cutter, Yoram F., and that was just added value to me, personally, because I feel like the stone I got was an exceptionally beautiful cut. I had seen maybe 5-6 AVRs before actually buying this one.

I think it is quite likely that I will end up buying an OEC, and I do keep my eyes open for that perfect one. Here are a couple that I use to remind me to wait for the best (not the best pic of the Cartier, but you can get an idea). Tiffany first, and then a Cartier owned by RandG.

_34692.jpg

_34693.jpg
 
Re: Why did/would you pick AVR/AVC over antique, or vice ver

Both are beautiful in their own ways. I have an OEC. I love the fact that it is a true antique piece full of romance and history. Combined with it being cut over 100 years ago just makes it that much more special to me in a way a newly cut diamond just can't compete with (for me).

Having said that there is so much variety in OECs that you will have to search more for one that appeals to you being a PSer. While getting an AVR etc there is much less risk as it is newly cut to exacting standards. However that makes it that much more rewarding having a genuine antique that I love and adore. I wish you a happy and successful search and that you find your "perfect" diamond. :appl:
 
Re: Why did/would you pick AVR/AVC over antique, or vice ver

I bought my OEC prior to PS and had no idea on diamond grading. When I saw the stone I fell in love instantly and I am still happy with my OEC every single day. The old world charm does the trick for me.

I actually love that my OEC is not 'perfect'. A while ago I was contemplating on having a Cartier setting made for it via their service and I was surprised that the in house jeweller thought it was a serious candidate for the service.

If you want to be sure, go for an AVR as OEC's are rare, let alone the beautiful ones.

Agree with Missy that it is all about personal taste... I had a 'perfect' icy white princess stone and after a few years it felt so boring (to me). When I saw my antique stone I knew what I was missing all along.

_416.jpeg
 
Re: Why did/would you pick AVR/AVC over antique, or vice ver

Gorgeous OEC's! And great posts, too.

OP get the stone that speaks to you on an emotional level. The one that makes your heart sing, old or new cut. That delights you to look at, intrigues you in different lights, gives you a thrill to behold.

I think the people who love their diamonds the most here have that emotional connection to them.
 
Re: Why did/would you pick AVR/AVC over antique, or vice ver

I was strongly drawn to the history, and old-world charm that I personally associate with OEC's. I also appreciate the fine optical display of the AVR's as they are beautiful stones. So it took me over two years looking every single day for an OEC that had the parameters that I coveted. I was on a mission! I am very, very fortunate to have found my OEC that has the facet pattern that I love, size, high clarity and higher color, and the fine optics that rival the branded old cuts. It comes down to personal preference, and what stone sings to you!
 
Re: Why did/would you pick AVR/AVC over antique, or vice ver

I will add that Kathley's gorgeous OEC diamond is like a sister to mine and apacherose's (AVRs). Her patience paid off! :appl: Many members here like the ones who have posted have great ones, but they either were patient and looked a long time for a great one, really lucky like Acinom, or fortunate like Missy and others to be able to visit Old World diamonds and see multiple stones to have confidence that she was buying the best available stone (or having multiple stones sent from Erica and Grace). That is probably the best option if you can just sell your current diamond and start over.

I have to say, though, at this point in time, if rarity is a desired factor, AVRs are far more rare than OEC's. He rarely has them over 2 cts and even fewer in the near colorless range. That's why I finally bought the one I did even though it wasn't the color I most wanted. The prices are fairly high when buying OECs retail now, so the great deals on them are not as common as when people like ForteKitty and Charmy got incredible deals on beautiful OECs on ebay. But bottom line, unless you have an AVR custom cut, you will not likely find one that meets your size and color requirements.
 
Re: Why did/would you pick AVR/AVC over antique, or vice ver

I've considered AVR, but I'm not that into cushions so I'd probably not consider the AVC.

Antique OEC
possible pros: Price. Might find one that's unique and above-average. Some of them are cut shallower but are decent performers and also spready. Some are great performers in both sunlight and other lighting. Since they were not cut to a cookbook formula, there is variety in them.
cons: A very thin girdle tends to chip incredibly fast & easily. Old stones may have an abraded finish that really needs re-polishing to bring out the beauty again, but that causes lost carat weight. Not many sizable OECs out there in higher colors due to recutting; most are J or lower unless you are looking at some smaller ones. Stones may have prior damage, like chips or fractures. Unwrap a bezeled antique diamond, and you might find that the bezel was hiding one or more large chips. Symmetry might be very wonky. Lots of them don't have any grading report from any lab, so it's hard to verify the specs, and getting it appraised before purchase may be difficult or impossible. Difficult to get price comps to know what it should sell for, assuming that you did manage to get a lab report or a decent appraisal.

GOG AVR:
Pros: Guaranteed great performer. Range of colors available. Unique and limited production, although more vendors are offering something similar now.

cons: Not sure that I like those pastel colors that they reflect. One might have to wait around for the exact combination of ct/color/clarity to become available. There are lots of lower colors and lower clarities, even into the I1 / I2 range in those parcels of AVRs, like it's a way to use up lower-value rough. It's a deep stone with small faceup size for its carat weight. You pay a premium for them because they are a branded stone.
 
Re: Why did/would you pick AVR/AVC over antique, or vice ver

AVRs only reflect pastel colors when they happen to be reflecting environmental colors in certain lighting, and most OECs and antique cushions will do the same if cut similarly (larger facets). I wish I could make mine look like that all the time, but that just isn't possible.
 
Re: Why did/would you pick AVR/AVC over antique, or vice ver

I always tell people that buying a diamond, ultimately, is about how it makes you feel every time you look at it. That will be different for everyone. Some people want to know that they have a diamond cut with technological precision, and are happy to pay a premium for it. Others enjoy looking at something that is rare and old - no different than an antique piece of furniture or art - imperfect by modern standards perhaps, but truly one of a kind. Yes, branded repros are also rare, but it's more of a controlled rarity than a natural one, if that makes sense? The cut can easily be reproduced again and again, but you can't "make" more antique OEC's.

I'm obviously biased, since I chose to deal in antique diamonds, because it's what my own eye prefers. But it's a purely individual choice. I personally prefer the softer more organic nature of true old cuts, versus the clinical precision of reproduction cuts, so that's what I can speak to. Plus I love the history - knowing that these were being cut during the infancy of what is now modern diamond cutting. That this was a very experimental time, and that the diamonds were being cut for visual beauty based on the tastes and technology (or lack thereof) of eras I love - Victorian times or the roaring 20's, for example. These diamonds were passed down through various stages in our history - times of great joy and terrible sadness. They feel...more alive somehow. To me. Like they've absorbed an energy that is hard to really understand or articulate.

When I look at an old cut, I also love that it's a green, ethical and unconventional choice. I love knowing that no one in my circle will have anything like it, and that I have something essentially irreplaceable - yes other OEC's can be found, but no two are alike. Old cuts just feel more special to me, though obviously branded repro cuts are special and unique too, in a different way.

There's no right or wrong answer - I always tell people to trust their instinct. Look at pics of 25 stones online. Mixes of old and new. What draws your eye in the most? What gives your heart a little pang when you look at it? After looking at them all, close your eyes and see what pops up in the darkness of your subconscious. Because how it makes you feel every time you look at it is, to me, the most important factor in choosing what is most beautiful.
 
Re: Why did/would you pick AVR/AVC over antique, or vice ver

I don't mean to reply to everyone who posts, but I certainly agree with Erica and my ideal would be to have both an OEC and AVR! Best of both worlds! I have seen Erica's personal ring and it is right up there with the most gorgeous rings I have ever seen!!! :love: (Oh, and I want a H&A round, an emerald cut, and an antique cushion, too. Now where's that money tree? :twirl: )
 
Re: Why did/would you pick AVR/AVC over antique, or vice ver

ericad|1443643910|3933560 said:
Add an antique asscher to the list for me, DS!!!
Click to expand...

Silly me...actually when I said EC, my true love would be an elongated antique asscher!!!! :bigsmile:
 
Re: Why did/would you pick AVR/AVC over antique, or vice ver

diamondseeker2006|1443644533|3933562 said:
ericad|1443643910|3933560 said:
Add an antique asscher to the list for me, DS!!!
Click to expand...

Silly me...actually when I said EC, my true love would be an elongated antique asscher!!!! :bigsmile:
Click to expand...

Yesssss...truly the only answer is one of each!
 
Re: Why did/would you pick AVR/AVC over antique, or vice ver

Thanks to all for your responses!!! I agree, an AVR and an OEC are in order. :naughty:
 
Re: Why did/would you pick AVR/AVC over antique, or vice ver

I have always been a sucker for cushions, but chose a RB for my original e-ring. After I lost my e-ring, I decided to go all out. I almost went with a 2 carat AVC since antique cushions seems to come in a wide variety. But I saw an antique OEC that was supremely well cut at Lang's. The flower pattern was remarkably symmetrical. If I had the insurance money back then, I would have picked it up - and it was snatched up shortly thereafter. I am pretty picky and honestly, didn't want to hunt for an extended period of time.

So, I ended up with the AVR because I wanted superior light performance and that flower pattern. Plus, it was easy to deal with GOG and insurance. I'm sure I could have gone with Erica, but I wasn't sure how the insurance process would have worked out with her store.

That doesn't mean I don't covet an antique cushion...
 
Re: Why did/would you pick AVR/AVC over antique, or vice ver

I evolved into old cuts.
My first loves were; ALL diamonds LOL, then well-cut RBs [and I still enjoy them], but OECs appeal to me more now.
I don't think I would have appreciated old cuts as much when I first started knowing diamonds, but now, to me, the modern cuts seem a little cookie cutter with a manufactured look. [although I would love to have an AV in my "stable"].
I think it depends on what "hooks" you about diamonds. The hooks for me were flower facets, large culets, broad light flashes and a changeable personality.
I agree with the poster that you should look at a lot of diamonds and see which ones make your heart beat faster. Only your eyes can decide for you.
 
Re: Why did/would you pick AVR/AVC over antique, or vice ver

I appreciate all the perspectives offered as I too offer OEC's as well so do not take the following in the wrong spirit.

For me, the invention of the August Vintage line boiled down to one factor. Predictable optics in the OEC facet structure.

**edited by moderator, no self promotion**

A good question to ask yourself. If you were living in the day when OEC's were being cut and you had laid before you 10 commonly cut OEC's and a genuine Henry Morse/Tiffany and they were all in your budget ... what would you pick?

That is basically the same question consumers face today when choosing between modern 57 faceted round brilliants and an AGS Ideal cut.

My .02c.

Peace,
Rhino
 
Re: Why did/would you pick AVR/AVC over antique, or vice ver

Rhino|1443745226|3933916 said:
I appreciate all the perspectives offered as I too offer OEC's as well so do not take the following in the wrong spirit.

For me, the invention of the August Vintage line boiled down to one factor. Predictable optics in the OEC facet structure.

**edited by moderator, no self promotion**

A good question to ask yourself. If you were living in the day when OEC's were being cut and you had laid before you 10 commonly cut OEC's and a genuine Henry Morse/Tiffany and they were all in your budget ... what would you pick?

That is basically the same question consumers face today when choosing between modern 57 faceted round brilliants and an AGS Ideal cut.

My .02c.

Peace,
Rhino
Click to expand...

Hi Jon, Love your AVR/AVC line...but my question to you and Yoram....When will he start cutting an AVC with the flower pattern under the table? Love antique cushions with this pattern but they are SO RARE. Also would like to see Yoram cut more antique pears. GIA grades them as "modified pear brilliants" ????....as they have those 8 main facet pattern under the table with large culets and rarely have a bow tie from the ones I've seen.

Also have a question....can Yoram recut a "modern pear" into an antique 8 main facet pear? If so what do you look for?

Thanks again for all your hard work to bring back the beauty of old cuts!
 
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