Why are there so many windowed stones?

[hay joe]

Is it a lack of knowledge, equipment issues, are the stones cut to look good on the scale not to the eye? Does a 2.7ct dud sell for more than a 2.4ct beauty? Or is it just very difficult to cut a stone and not have a window in the finished product?

 

[kenny]

It saves weight when cutting flatter rough.
Plus many buyers are ignorant.

 

[movie zombie]

and some have a higher tolerance for some windowing.....others, not so much.
even high end stones by high end designers may have windowing.

 

[JewelFreak]

I'm often astonished at the big auction-house sites that very lush stones going for tens of thousands have windows. People pay for them. Then there is the most revered example, the Hope Diamond.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I certainly can't/won't speak for all, but being a non-collector of fine gems, and more gravitating toward things that just "speak" to me, I would say that some of it is probably ignorance and some of it may be the weighing of pros & cons with a particular stone. A windowed stone might not be the right/perfect choice for you, but for someone else and for their own reasons, it might be perfect for them. It might be the color the stone does display, it might be budget, it might be a desire to just blow some cash.

My alexandrite has a window that, in discussing it with others on here they would have probably passed on it (as well as for the fact the color change wasn't "ideal" by collector standards), and that is fine. But I LOVED the stone, the colors it does display (even though not "ideal"), enough that I can love and admire the stone even with that flaw. It's not something I ever intend to sell and thus placed more weight in that aspect of the selection (e.g. resale value). I love it for what it IS, flaws and all, but I wasn't seeking "perfection", just perfect for me.

 

[chrono]

Windowing doesn't only happen to flattish rough but to also rough with sufficient depth. When it is a shallow stone, often times, it is windowed because there's not much to work with so the cutter hopes to get the most carat weight out of it to lessen their initial cost and increase the final sale $/ct. Sometimes, a darker stone is cut shallowly to allow more light into it to be able to see colour instead of darkness.

When a deep stone or a stone has "good" depth is windowed, the reasons are different. There is the usual saving weight reason (with non ideal angles used) since there are key $/ct weight jumps. It could be that the colour center is a bit off to the side, so the culet is deliberately off-centered, hence there is a small window with a better colour overall trade off.

There's also the usual equipment and lack of knowledge issues being that some places are poor and remote, with little training and antiquated jamb pegs.

Because the public are generally accepting of poorly cut stones, there hasn't been a strong push or gravitation towards better cut coloured stones.

 

[OreoRosies86]

There are gems with great color but not as great cut, and you do run the risk of changing the stone's color during a recut, so a lot of people might opt to not fuss with the stone too much and maintain what makes the stone most desireable.

I will forgive windowing if the color is a knockout. So will a lot of buyers in this market. Look at the crazy gorgeous color of the paraiba. They are rare and cut to maintain weight much of the time so it would not deter me from buying and loving it. This "padparadscha" on the other hand? Yeesh. If it were an unheated orange sapphire I would rather is just be cut into a nice small bit of Fanta color for me to enjoy rather than a magnifying glass.

 

[iluvshinythings]

I think the reasons are the same as all the really terribly cut diamonds commonly seen on the market. The general public doesn't know what a gemstone is supposed to look like so they don't demand better quality. I know I didn't know any better until PS.

 

[movie zombie]

There are gems with great color but not as great cut, and you do run the risk of changing the stone's color during a recut, so a lot of people might opt to not fuss with the stone too much and maintain what makes the stone most desireable.

I will forgive windowing if the color is a knockout. So will a lot of buyers in this market. Look at the crazy gorgeous color of the paraiba. They are rare and cut to maintain weight much of the time so it would not deter me from buying and loving it. This "padparadscha" on the other hand? Yeesh. If it were an unheated orange sapphire I would rather is just be cut into a nice small bit of Fanta color for me to enjoy rather than a magnifying glass.

I so agree with you: it is absolutely all about the color.....and I agree with your assessment of both stones.

 

[endless_summer]

I've learned I can't forgive windowing, no matter how pretty the color and grand in size the stone may be, which does make life more difficult trying to look for particular colored stones. Some settings will close the windows, but depending on how large, you may still be able to see it. I chalk it up to weight retention and, in some locations, the stones just don't leave uncut, so precision cutting isn't a realistic option until the cutters that we all love acquire the stones for re-cut

 

[RedSpinel]

I have always wondered about this too. You would think that a stone would be more valuable had they simply cut it a little smaller in width and length in order to increase the scale of depth to get rid of the window. But I think some cutters or owners think that its better to end up with a heavier stone with a window versus a slightly lighter stone without one. Thats due to lack of knowledge of the majority of the public when it comes to getstones.

 

[sparkleismyfavcolor]

My husband and I were just having this very discussion yesterday! How funny. I agree with everyone else, and kudos to PS for helping all of us noobs with a desire to learn more. The good ones are sooo hard to find (or at least hard to find within my budget!). It would be interesting to see if someone who just buys a stone unaware of windowing and other possible issues would keep the stone if they were shown an equivalent one without a window and offered a trade. It would probably be pretty eye-opening. You never know though, there are so many factors and beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder!

 

[cm366]

I think the potential loss of carat weight and value from a window-free cut is underestimated in a lot of cases. If you took, say, a 10x9x4mm piece of rough, that's a breathtakingly perfect 5-6mm round or a wonky looking flat step cut 9x8 oval weighing two or three times as much.

I think PrecisionGem put up a poll a little while ago, asking whether folks would pay more per carat for precision cuts... even on this site, home of the cut-nazis, there were pretty equivocal responses.

 

[FrekeChild]

I think the potential loss of carat weight and value from a window-free cut is underestimated in a lot of cases. If you took, say, a 10x9x4mm piece of rough, that's a breathtakingly perfect 5-6mm round or a wonky looking flat step cut 9x8 oval weighing two or three times as much.

I think PrecisionGem put up a poll a little while ago, asking whether folks would pay more per carat for precision cuts... even on this site, home of the cut-nazis, there were pretty equivocal responses.

This. ^^^^^^^

 

[Michael_E]

I was just going to respond to this thread and noticed that the image in Elliot's post had the ultimate "window dressing"...a plate of diamond melee mounted under the orange sapphire in an attempt to make the window have some sparkle. Very clever, I wonder how that looks IRL?

I think that the orange sapphire shown earlier is a perfect case of what the decisions are in deciding how to cut a rough gem. That sapphire could probably have been cut 90° to the direction that it was cut, (basically with the table on the side of the stone). Flip it that way and have plenty of depth, but 1/2 the width. It could also have been cut down to about 1/2 it's present face up size, or a better choice if saving weight was the goal, it could have been cut in half and a matching pair made with neither having a window. The problem comes in that the value received is greater for both greater weight AND greater face up size, so the owner and cutter really have no choice in a case like this, but to cut it as shown.

What this does is to transfer the decision about what has the highest value right on down the line to the end buyer...you. If this sort of stone has adequate color intensity and depth, it could conceivably be re-cut smaller, (or into two matching stones), with out any windowing and obtain a higher value in the process. If you feel that you understand how this all works, have a good eye for the intricacies of re-cutting and are willing to take some risks, then you might be able to get some real bargains from the large quantities of windowed stones available. Do your homework first though, since the variables of face up size, color, weight and overall attractiveness can have dramatic effects on the value of the stone.

 

[Edward Bristol]

the roots of windows

The story of (gemstone-) windows began 100.000+ years ago:

Human sapiens worshipped coloured pebble. To make them even prettier they rubbed them against each other to smooth the surfaces (a process aptly called ‘bruting’).

They followed the natural crystal shape. Windows were inevitable. I imagine cave-man/women even valued them: A way to look at a new, coloured world. Magic!

Today, the first cutter in a remote jungle, still follows the crystal. I sometimes come across crystals that have been simple polished along their natural facets. It can be very nice but of course there is zero brilliancy.

Next time you go in a museum with ancient precious stones, take a look. Those are basically pebbles or crystals with smoothened surfaces.

 

[T L]

Is it a lack of knowledge, equipment issues, are the stones cut to look good on the scale not to the eye? Does a 2.7ct dud sell for more than a 2.4ct beauty? Or is it just very difficult to cut a stone and not have a window in the finished product?

We're so spoiled by precision faceting, that many people take for granted that stones are generally cut to save weight, rather than beauty. Some of the most famous stones have windows. Take this gem in the Smithsonian for example.



Therefore, most stones will probably have a window. Precision cutting or even very good native cutting is not the norm, and that's why people pay a premium for it.

 

[Edward Bristol]

LOL, I meant 'Homo sapiens' of course...

 

[Lee Little]

Interesting observation Ed.

Also the reason could be that the vast majority of stone cutters on the planet have never heard of a 'window' being a negative and do not understand it or believe they have any control over it, let alone think that there is any higher demand for a gem with no or little window.
Most consumers and cutters do not have the same criteria as found on this forum. Best regards, Lee

 

[Edward Bristol]

Thanks Lee,

As far as consumer ‘accepting’ windows, that is rather ignorance than 'preference'. I can’t count the times that an aspiring buyer shows me a drive-through windowed stone at a competitors’ website and asks why it is cheaper.

On the source/cutter side, yes, they see a window in a flat rough as inevitable because the local value of the material (as compared to cost of living) is so utterly high that they would not dream about cutting of 50% of the stone just to close a window.