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Who is telling me the truth? BN or BM?

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bluedevil27

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
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So I appreciate all the input everyone has given me. I had asked about this one diamond and how the price seemed too good to be true. Well, I decided to call a local jeweler and send him the certificate 2.21FVS2. He said that he had personally seen this diamond and that the inclusion was black and this diamond was not eyeclean.

Now the reason I showed him this diamond is because he has an vested interested in me buying a diamond from him vs. an online place. Are VS2 quality diamonds not eyeclean? If it did have a black inclusion wouldn''t it be a lower clarity? Or am I not correct in the meaning? VS2 just means very slight inclusions, so its more quanity than quality? So I could have one inclusion, even if it was bad it could potentially be a VS2?

I had also asked Blue Nile how the diamond looked he said "will have no visible inclusions to the naked eye from the face up".

Who should I believe here? Or should I just purchase the diamond and if its not eye clean return it. Has anyone returned a diamond before? Is it a big hassle? Is it extremely expensive to ship and insure?

Thanks for any advice.
 
If it has a black inclusion you can see from face up then it''s either misgraded or it''s not the diamond on the cert. I''m skeptical that your B&M jeweler has see this particular diamond. There are millions of diamonds on the internet and he''s seen this particular one???? If it''s still in stock and you are interetsted in it, it''s not that big a deal to have them send it to you. If it''s not what you want, you just send it back. You''ll end up paying about $70 in shipping, but that''s not much considering there''s a $5000 savings, right? It''s possible there may be SOMEthing going on with this stone, but to me it would be worth $70 to find out if it was anything that would bother me. If everything on paper looks like what you want, why not have them send it to you?
 
I think the B&M is just trying to scare you into buying from them. The stone would not be graded a VS is it was NOT eye clean.

As for returning a stone, if you have to ship it back, the US Postal Service will let you insure a ring up to $25k and the cost is fairly reasonable, but if it''s valued above $25k, I''m not sure how you get it back to the vendor. I''m sure the experts will chime in here!

If it were me, I''d buy the stone and send it back if it''s not what you''re looking for...
 
The jeweler has seen it (the diamond, not just the report)? Have you? Does the jeweler currently have possession?

As you know, this is all highly suspicious. ‘Eye clean’ has several non-gemological components like the lighting and how good your eyes are but a correctly graded VS2 that doesn’t make the cut under standard type lighting circumstances and for normal vision is highly unusual. This does raise a serious question of the conflict of interest here on the part of the grader/competitor. How is it that he has both seen and remembers this particular stone?

If you're serious about it, get it graded by someone who is working for YOU, not by someone with an alternate agenda. By the way, I would recommend the same with whatever stone the B&M is trying to sell as well.

Edited to add: The report in the BN advertisement says the grade setting inclusions are a cloud and a pinpoint. Neither of these come in black.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver
 
lumpkin, thanks for your feedback. Yes, I think that is the best plan of action.

I just feel that in this industry there are no "deals". You can do your homework to make sure you don''t get ripped off, but you can''t ever get a great "bargain". You purchase what you pay for and I''m afraid that if I do purchase a diamond for $5,000 less I''m getting an inferior diamond. I hope its not the case for this one, but my gut keeps telling me that there has to be something with this diamond that has decreased the asking price.
 
thank you for everyone''s feedback.

Blue Nile currently has the stone. Apparently the BM guy told me he has seen this specific stone but is not in possession of it. I have not seen it in person and will need to purchase the stone to see it. I plan on going to an independent appraiser (does anyone know of any in Chicago) to verify the stone and value.

This diamond is greater than $25,000. How do I go about returning this diamond if I do return it since its above the $25,000 cutoff? Does anyone know? Anyone been in this situation?

thanks again in advance!
 
Neil, I just fully read your post. Clouds and pinpoints don''t come in black! I guess my BM guy is full of #$#@.
 
Date: 2/13/2008 11:32:53 AM
Author: bluedevil27
lumpkin, thanks for your feedback. Yes, I think that is the best plan of action.

I just feel that in this industry there are no ''deals''. You can do your homework to make sure you don''t get ripped off, but you can''t ever get a great ''bargain''. You purchase what you pay for and I''m afraid that if I do purchase a diamond for $5,000 less I''m getting an inferior diamond. I hope its not the case for this one, but my gut keeps telling me that there has to be something with this diamond that has decreased the asking price.
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You are probably right for the most part. Maybe once in a while there''s a great bargain to be had, but by and large you get what you pay for. I can''t remember, did this diamond have flourescence? That can devalue a colorless diamond, but it doesn''t bother most people, so could that be why the diamond is priced lower? At any rate, if you have them send it to you, find a local independent appraiser and take it there if it looks like something you''d want to buy. There weren''t any PS appraisers in my area so I got the name of a local appraiser through my insurance company.
 
I was writing while you were posting, so I see you''re already looking into an appraiser. If you decide to have them send it, I hope it''s everything you want it to be.
 
Date: 2/13/2008 11:35:56 AM
Author: bluedevil27
thank you for everyone''s feedback.


Blue Nile currently has the stone. Apparently the BM guy told me he has seen this specific stone but is not in possession of it. I have not seen it in person and will need to purchase the stone to see it. I plan on going to an independent appraiser (does anyone know of any in Chicago) to verify the stone and value.


This diamond is greater than $25,000. How do I go about returning this diamond if I do return it since its above the $25,000 cutoff? Does anyone know? Anyone been in this situation?


thanks again in advance!
Click to expand...

Ask your appraiser if they have special shipping insurance arrangements with one of the carriers. Many of us do. They may be able to assist in the return if needed or in getting it to the jeweler who will be setting it.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver
 
Date: 2/13/2008 11:38:51 AM
Author: bluedevil27
Neil, I just fully read your post. Clouds and pinpoints don't come in black! I guess my BM guy is full of #$#@.
Click to expand...


Yup. And Neil knows his #$#@. Listen to him.
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And as for the price, yes sometimes you are getting something inferior. But online prices are often MUCH better than B&M store prices, especially once you're talking a big stone. BN is known for having good prices, so I wouldn't let that worry you.
 
I suspect the stone in question is eye clean and that your BM vendor is making a desperate attempt to get your biz by telling you scary stories.

No there are no 'bargains' per se, but there are certainly cases where things are overpriced. Your BM dealer may fall into the latter catagory and he is trying to scare you into paying more money.

Bring in the BN stone and evaluate it. Ask BN if they have any solutions for returning/shipping the stone should you need to. USPS is definitly limited to 25K so you cannot go that route. I have shipped over-the-limit stones by using the vendor's Fedex account which has special insurance. Maybe BN has this.

I have worked with BN a few different times and I never had trouble with them.

In any case I would be very concerned about the ethics of you BM vendor. It just does not seem probable that he knows this stone. After all it's only been graded very recently, per the report. So where did he see it, anyhow???
 
No flourecense. Nothing that I can think of why this diamond would be much cheaper except:

Inclusions are right in the middle of the table
Potential that SARIN report/ASET/Idealscope shows poor performance.

Do most apprasiers also offer those reports?
 
Why don''t you just buy it and return it if its not what you want? I am thinking of doing the same for a diff BN rock.
 
Beacon,
That''s a great point. The cert is as of Jan 8, 2008. I had met with the B&M guy in December and told him the specs I wanted so he has been on the lookout for a diamond with these characteristics. He also just got back from a trip to Israel so I thought maybe in his travels he had seen it. I don''t totally trust the B&M anymore now, but I am still weary of the diamond if its $5,000 cheaper than a similar BN diamond that the only real significant difference is .that it is 07 carats smaller.
 
There is no doubt to me that your B&M dealer is talking out of his bottom. :)

It sounds as if he knows you are nervous and is playing on your fears to get you to spend $25,000 with him instead (heck, why wouldn''t he!).

If you want to know why Blue Nile have priced this stone $5000 less than another, similar diamond... why not just ask them?

Yes, it really is that easy.

If there''s nothing scary in their answer, go ahead & buy the stone. You can always return it.

Have you seen a genuine VS2 in real life?

My money says you are going to be very surprised at just how clean that diamond looks to your naked eye. :)

x x x
 

I''m not sure how your jeweler could have see this diamond because all of BN''s diamonds are in a vault with their supplier, who inspects, sets and ships them out in New York (for non-signature diamonds) . Unless that has changed, that any jeweler can access their non-signature diamonds... You can ask BN for a color and clarity visual, and their gemologist will send a report with what they find. I''ve had this done on several diamonds, and do trust what they say.


My current diamond is as 1.33 AGS000 round, J, SI2. BN said it was colorless and clarity clean top down visual, and it IS absolutely colorless and with eye clean clarity top down and side view as well. A VS2 should definitely be eye clean top down. I''m replacing my setting (BN''s 6 prong plat $500 solitare) for my diamond''s permanent "home"

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and of the 4 b&m stores I went into, all stones that were compared to mine (and I never asked to compare, this was the jewelers taking out THEIR diamonds to compare against mine to show me how "superior" their diamonds were, in hopes I would return mine) were priced between $8,000-$9,000 for a similar sized stone. None of the diamonds were AGS000/Ideals either
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I paid $5,200 for mine from Blue Nile!


The diamond you picked looks stunning! BN has an amazing return policy, infact I returned a .91 AGS000 to them to exchange it with my now 1.33 (that I adore). I sent it UPS Overnight, fully insured. BN does have an inspection process to verify the diamond you send back is the actual diamond and that there is no damage. But the exchange was flawless!
 
Blue Devil-

I ran your stone's numbers through the HCA and it came back this:

Factor Grade
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.2 - Excellent
within TIC range

And it was right within both AGS Ideal and GIA Excellent range!

I ran it through the AGA DIY Cut Grader and it came back:

Shape: Round
Table % 56.0% Grade: 1A
Crown Angle 34.5° Grade: 1A
Crown Height % 15.0% Grade: 1A
Pavilion Depth % 43.0% Grade: 1A
Girdle Thickness Thin to Medium Grade: 1A
Total Depth % 61.30% Grade: 1A
Polish Excellent / Very Good Grade: 1A * Not a primary determining factor.
Symmetry Excellent / Very Good Grade: 1A * Not a primary determining factor.

Great stone!!
 
My only comment is that I ONCE saw a 1.21ct GIA graded H/VS1 (2007 cert date) that had a dark x-tal in the center of the table, just about halfway down (depth wise). I could not see the inclusion face on, but through the pavilion, it was (barely) eye visible, just above the girdle reflection. I would have also argued that particular VS1 call with GIA- it would've gotten VS2 in my opinion. I would say face on there is low chance of this eye visibility, but through the side it is very possible.

Oh, sorry! I just read that the incl. were cloud and pinpoint. Nevermind me.
 
thank you so much for all of your replies and time. I am going to purchase the diamond, I just bought a digital camera so I should be able to post pictures. Actually, I''m not very tech savvy. Once I get pictures taken, how do I post them on here?
 
Congrats! I am sure that you will be pleased, it looks like it will be a lovely stone!
 
Date: 2/13/2008 6:33:11 PM
Author: bluedevil27
thank you so much for all of your replies and time. I am going to purchase the diamond, I just bought a digital camera so I should be able to post pictures. Actually, I''m not very tech savvy. Once I get pictures taken, how do I post them on here?
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read this:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/bling-pictures-understanding-focus.75890/
Then read the threads linked from there and it will help you with the pictures and posting them.
 
Very exciting! On paper it''s dynamite, so hopefully that lower price just means you can buy a nicer setting.
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Date: 2/13/2008 11:59:16 AM
Author: Beacon
I suspect the stone in question is eye clean and that your BM vendor is making a desperate attempt to get your biz by telling you scary stories.

No there are no ''bargains'' per se, but there are certainly cases where things are overpriced. Your BM dealer may fall into the latter catagory and he is trying to scare you into paying more money.

Bring in the BN stone and evaluate it. Ask BN if they have any solutions for returning/shipping the stone should you need to. USPS is definitly limited to 25K so you cannot go that route. I have shipped over-the-limit stones by using the vendor''s Fedex account which has special insurance. Maybe BN has this.

I have worked with BN a few different times and I never had trouble with them.

In any case I would be very concerned about the ethics of you BM vendor. It just does not seem probable that he knows this stone. After all it''s only been graded very recently, per the report. So where did he see it, anyhow???
Click to expand...
Ditto, everything. This B&M jeweler makes me sick. Blatant lies make me very angry. I''m sure BN has a way to return the stone if something goes wrong, but honestly I think it should be gorgeous and you won''t encounter any problems.
 
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