Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. South?

[iheartscience]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I didn't say running dogs was illegal. (Although it is actually illegal in most states, with the exception of the South.) I do think it's unsportsmanlike and so does my dad and many other hunters who prefer to abide by what's known as the "fair chase" ethic. (And for the record, my father also doesn't shoot young bucks or does.) And in my experience growing up in rural Virginia, people who run dogs to flush deer out tend to be rednecks.

This has to do with animal abuse because the most neglected, sickly dogs I've seen have been kept as hunting dogs and used to run deer. Also, using dogs to hunt deer is a Southern tradition, and we're talking about how dogs are treated in the South. Hope that clears it up for you.

To see the sickliest dogs I"ve ever seen, go read my links. Those weren't hunting dogs and they weren't in the south.

Using dogs to hunt deer is actually a European tradition, when Kings would use hounds to hunt stags. It carried through when settlers came to the U.S. and continued to use dogs to help hunt their dinner, which included deer, rabbits, raccoons, antelope, bison, and even squirrels. It is not just a southern tradition.

I'm talking about the dogs I've personally come across, not a bunch of internet stories. Hunting whitetail deer with dogs (which is what I've been talking about the entire time) is only practiced in 9 states, and even in those states not all counties allow it. The states that allow it include: Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama and Arkansas. Like I said, it's a Southern tradition, and it's one that's controversial.

The bolded part is your quote Thing. Stags in Europe are a type of deer. And as I said before, Dogs are used to hunt other animals, like birds, hogs, rabbits, foxes and raccoons.

I LIVE in the south and I HUNT and I go to hunting clubs IN THE SOUTH, and I have only ONCE seen dogs that were sickly and starved and those dogs were reported and removed from the club and further action was taken against the owner. I've been around hunting since I was a child. That's at least 23 years in the woods. Hunters as a main group do not all treat their dogs badly. They are not all "rednecks" who treat their dogs in "disgusting" manners. The dogs are happy, healthy animals who enjoy their job and are treated with great care and pride. When you have spent your entire life in the woods in the SOUTH then you can come tell me that the majority of hunters do what they do.

Those random internet stories are REAL cases of neglect and abuse. Dogs left with mange. Dogs left with no food. Pitt bulls being starved. Small dogs being starved. Horses being starved and their dead bodies being piled in a line. Again, as I've been trying to get across from the start, ignorance, neglect, and abuse are not just centered in the south. Pitt bulls used for fighting are treated much worse than hunting dogs who get to lounge about most of the day with plenty of food and water. Animals that are being hoarded and live in their own filth are living much worse lives too. It is not just one area, or one breed, or one sub group of owners, or one type. It is all over. It is everywhere. It is sad and sick and in an ideal world it wouldn't happen. Unfortunately I think it will always be an issue that people are trying to prevent, due to lack of education, laziness, or lack of emotion/empathy.

Right, but again, I'm talking about the U.S. South, not Europe. And in America, hunting deer with dogs is primarily a Southern tradition.

As for the rest, we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[dragonfly411]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I understood what you were saying, I just felt like saying "hunting deer is a southern tradition" is very broad considering the history of humans, hunting, and dogs.

And yes we will have to agree to disagree, although it leaves me saddened that people think those things.


To answer Monkey Pie - The subject does have relevance to those of us who live in and were raised in the south and who see a totally different scenario than that being presented. Again, my main point to start with is neglect and cruelty are not centered in the south as a majority, but they are everywhere.

 

[MonkeyPie]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

To answer Monkey Pie - The subject does have relevance to those of us who live in and were raised in the south and who see a totally different scenario than that being presented. Again, my main point to start with is neglect and cruelty are not centered in the south as a majority, but they are everywhere.

And as has been repeated MANY times, no one here even insinuated that neglect doesn't happen elsewhere, only that THEY (meaning the OP) have noticed it is far more prevalent in the South.

 

[waterlilly]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I've spent time in animal shelters in the northeast and almost all of the dogs come from the south. There just isn't a stray dog population up here, but there is a large one in the south and a never ending supply of cute beagles and hound dogs to be adopted by those up here. It's very sad. I think education is really the key, but I have no idea how to go about it.

I own rabbits which are typically treated worse than an average dog or cat - bought as an object, kept in a tiny cage, released into the wild when the owners get bored. I think the state of pets in the US is improving, but not quickly enough.

How are these dogs migrating from the South to Northeast??? How do you know all of the stray dogs in your area have travelled so far? Just curious .....

If you are asking the question in that manner, you obviously have little knowledge of what is really going on with dogs in the south.

How are they migrating? Because there are transport companies that drive rescued dogs from southern high kill shelters to New England every single week of the year to be adopted, several companies. How many companies bring dogs from the north to the south to be adopted? Zero.

Pretty much every single rescue in New England works to pull dogs from the south - there is an endless supply of dogs at high kill shelters in the south, killed daily, with more dogs taking their place, a non stop flow.

I personally work with rescue volunteers in TN and MS - there is literally a non stop flood of dogs dumped daily in rural county shelters that euthanize every two days. To anyone that disagrees the south is not a hotbed for homeless, un-fixed, abandoned and mistreated dogs, you have blinders on.

 

[dragonfly411]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

To answer Monkey Pie - The subject does have relevance to those of us who live in and were raised in the south and who see a totally different scenario than that being presented. Again, my main point to start with is neglect and cruelty are not centered in the south as a majority, but they are everywhere.

And as has been repeated MANY times, no one here even insinuated that neglect doesn't happen elsewhere, only that THEY (meaning the OP) have noticed it is far more prevalent in the South.

And again, part of this discussion would be to agree or disagree, and offer ideas in either direction.

 

[waterlilly]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Question, is leaving a dog inside, with sufficient clean water, after being walked and fed, while at work for SEVERAL hours, ideal animal care? If not, what do people up north do with their pets when they're not at home? What if a dog "in the South" has been walked and fed, does have clean water, but is left outside during the day to run around instead of being cooped up in a house all day?

Good question! I also would like to know the answer... What is the difference of being left outdoors vs. left indoors while people are at work. Assuming you don't live somewhere that is freezing cold or burning hot outside.

There is NOTHING wrong with a dog being outside as long as the weather is appropriate for the breed, there is plenty of shelter / food / water - and the dog is not chained (edited to add - and kept in a secure kennel, NOT roaming) and allowed inside at night as part of the family. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

 

[waterlilly]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

duplicate post

 

[waterlilly]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Having a dog is a lot easier in the South. Generally property is cheaper and most people have a back yard. The weather is milder, so it seldom snows or even gets that cold. Someone could easily have a dog that requires minor upkeep in the South, whereas I think with the need for daily walks in the Northeast, more dear property, and cold weather, there is going to be a lot more work involved in owning an animal. In the Northeast, I doubt there are many outdoor-only pets, so people have to groom and bathe the pets to bring them into their homes. I'd say that there is just overall more effort in maintaining a pet outside of the South (or other places with similar profiles) and that the tendency towards inertia cannot be overstated. In the Northeast, you would need to *want* a pet to make such a daily commitment to its upkeep.

I think this thread has also varied between criticism of people who keep dogs in their backyards and rarely interact with them to people who truly neglect the pets and refuse medical care, chain them up continuously, or beat/starve them. There's a huge difference between these two things and although I don't think the first is ideal, I do not think it is unethical. I would say that this scenario is probably more common in the South because of the factors listed above and because the mentality is a little bit more like everyone is "on their own". As in, "I give the dog food and water, make sure it has shelter and room to run around safely, and an occasional bath, but the dog is on its own for interaction and level of cleanliness."

To be fair, I'm also not sure you could blame someone if they didn't seek all the best medical care for their animals if their other family members were uninsured or underinsured. With so many people losing their health insurance over the past 10 years, I think this could also be a contributing factor.

Keeping a dog in the backyard (usually by itself) and ignoring it IS truly neglect. Why get a dog if this is how you're going to treat it? It makes NO SENSE.

Thing2 - some animals are used for a purpose. They are not meant as pets. They were not bred to be pets. It is not in their genetics to act as pets. Hunting dogs do much better outside, in a yard, with plenty of room to move. They do not like being indoors. They don't like being in small spaces. They aren't apt to spend a lot of time cuddling either. How is that neglect? It's putting the animal into a situation that fits it's requirements. It's the same with any working dog. A border collie won't be at it's happiest in a house with no yard and only going for short walks. They are far too active for that type of lifestyle.


This thread has me pretty upset, as lumping the south together seems to be a pretty common thing on PS lately, and it's pretty narrow minded. But just to enlighten everyone:

http://www.thedogfiles.com/2011/03/23/patrick-the-miracle-dog-survives-abuse-needs-a-home/ - New Jersey

http://www.wilx.com/news/headlines/Men_Charged_in_Separate_Animal_Abuse_Cases_118947069.html - Michigan

http://www.greenfieldreporter.com/view/story/225c402a5c5246a5a4a1a031a6def324/MN--Animals-Starved/ - Minnesota

http://www.heartlandconnection.com/news/story.aspx?id=598699 - Iowa

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/mar/11/dog-rescue-operator-gets-probation-neglect-case/ - San Diego

http://crimecrawlers.wordpress.com/2011/03/11/a-horse-concentration-camp-found-in-central-illinois/ - Illinois

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/18/sports/18horses.html?_r=4 - New York

http://articles.chicagobreakingnews.com/2011-03-09/news/28674380_1_animal-neglect-sickly-dogs-surrenders - chicago

http://www.compassionforcamden.org/mean.html - New Jersey

http://fortheloveofthedogblog.com/news-updates/severely-neglected-dog-abandoned-in-front-of-animal-hospital-animal-hospital-does-nothing-video - New York

http://www.bakersfieldnow.com/news/investigations/116014384.html - California

http://www.katu.com/news/30141499.html - Oregon

No one is saying that animal abuse only happens in the South, that would be silly. There are sick people everywhere.

Here is just one blurb from a northern rescue - most rescues have this type of explanation on their websites because people are constantly asking the question - WTF is up with the south and their dog issues?

Big Fluffy Dog Rescue of New England
About Our Rescue Group
Big Fluffy Dog Rescue of New England is affiliated with Tennessee Big Fluffy Dog Rescue, a 501(C)(3) non-profit, rescue group headquartered in Nashville, Tennessee. Big Fluffy Dog Rescue values dogs of all breeds, but specializes in what the name says: big, fluffy dogs. We have volunteers in several states in the South and New England who want to help homeless, fluffy dogs find a place to call their own. We do not have a shelter and all our dogs are in private foster homes. Our ability to help dogs is directly related to the availability of foster space. We are always grateful for foster volunteers or other donations of time or goods.
Many of our dogs come from southern states where spay neuter laws do not exist and where the pet overpopulation problem is critical. Hundreds of thousands of extremely adoptable dogs and puppies are euthanized every year in the South as there simply are not enough homes for the dogs who end up in shelters. We rescue dogs from southern shelters and house them in foster homes in the South until they are ready to come to foster homes in the New England area. We use a USDA- licensed transport company to bring dogs from the South to New England. Transport is a weekly occurrence and fosters and adoptive homes meet the transport at points from Virginia to New Hampshire.

Oh, and I have to add - you saying that some dogs were 'bred for a purpose' and not meant to be pets?? Bingo, that is the exact attitude that is most prevalent in the South. Hunting dogs not meant to be pets? C'mon, hunting breeds are some of the sweetest most loving family pets out there, not surprising that it is also one of the most common breeds brought up from the South - I have one sleeping next to me at the moment. Rescued from ... the South. I have friends that have a recreational dog team in AK, talk about working dogs - these dogs have one thing on their mind, those dogs still sleep inside (all 10 of them) and take turns having family time where they happily cuddle up on the couch and play with the kids in the home.

Lack of spay and neuter, prevalence of the attitude that dogs are "property" not pets, and the attitude that dogs can somehow take care of themselves when tossed on the side of the road when you get sick of them - those are attitudes you see in areas where dog overpopulation is most rampant.

 

[Loves Vintage]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

DF - I think everyone agrees that neglect and abuse of animals occur everywhere. I live in CT, and I have personally witnessed animals kept in unbelievably disgusting conditions, and it took A LOT for the state and local animal control to do anything about it, including getting local tv media involved and posting the situation on Craigslist in order to get people essentially to harass and shame local government officials. So, yes, cruelty exists everywhere. What I think this thread is about though is the fact that in the South, some (not all) people regard animals differently than most people regard them in other areas of the country. In many parts of the south, dogs and cats are not routinely spayed and neutered, they are left to roam and are often left outside without companionship. I think you said yourself that you believe that some dogs like to be left alone outside or kenneled. I do not feel that way, and I don't know anyone in my area who leaves their dogs alone outside for any length of time, let alone all day and all night long.

When un-neutered dogs are left to roam, puppies result. Those puppies wind up in the shelters and are often gassed. We also don't do this in CT, and though no means of euthanasia for perfectly healthy puppies and adult dogs is ideal, I find gassing a particularly offensive way to deal with an overpopulation problem that would be much reduced if people would just spay/neuter and keep their dogs under their control. So, people like me in CT get e-mails with pictures of adorable dogs like the beagle/hound mix in my avatar, are told they will be put to death in a matter of days, sometimes hours, unless someone steps up and agrees to adopt them. And, that is how we adopted our girl Lucy who was a stray in Georgia and that is just one of the ways that dogs make their way up north. I arranged for a rescue group to work with the local rescue group to have her transported. An individual was paid to drive her and a few other dogs up to New Jersey where we went to pick her and the others up. I've also participated in the volunteer transports that others referenced in this thread. There are also paid "haulers" who will drive dogs up in trailers specifically designed to hold dogs. I've even seen a bus retro-fitted to hold dog crates for transports.

With respect to hunting, I have never been hunting and will never hunt. Though I have no first-hand experience here, I am aware that many hunters (perhaps not in your circle) will obtain dogs at the beginning of hunting season and then will just abandon them at the end of the season because they no longer have a use for them and don't want to pay for their food. I know you'll say this doesn't happen in your circle, but have you really never heard of this happening at all?

Those are just some of the dogs that wind up in the shelters, and that is why some wind up in these transports. I've seen lots of coonhounds and beagles make their way up north and have personally driven them to rescue groups that get their dogs entirely from the south. If hunters aren't abandoning them or dropping them off at shelters, where are they coming from?????

 

[dragonfly411]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

DF - I think everyone agrees that neglect and abuse of animals occur everywhere. I live in CT, and I have personally witnessed animals kept in unbelievably disgusting conditions, and it took A LOT for the state and local animal control to do anything about it, including getting local tv media involved and posting the situation on Craigslist in order to get people essentially to harass and shame local government officials. So, yes, cruelty exists everywhere. What I think this thread is about though is the fact that in the South, people often regard animals differently than most people regard them in other areas of the country. In many parts of the south, dogs and cats are not routinely spayed and neutered, they are left to roam and are often left outside without companionship. I think you said yourself that you believe that some dogs like to be left alone outside or kenneled. I do not feel that way, and I don't know anyone in my area who leaves their dogs alone outside all day and all night long.

When un-neutered dogs are left to roam, puppies result. Those puppies wind up in the shelters and are often gassed. We also don't do this in CT, and though no means of euthanasia for perfectly healthy puppies and adult dogs is ideal, I find gassing a particularly offensive way to deal with an overpopulation problem that would be much reduced if people would just spay/neuter and keep their dogs under their control. So, people like me in CT get e-mails with pictures of adorable dogs like the beagle/hound mix in my avatar, are told they will be put to death in a matter of days, sometimes hours, unless someone steps up and agrees to adopt them. And, that is how we adopted our girl Lucy who was a stray in Georgia and that is just one of the ways that dogs make their way up north. I arranged for a rescue group to work with the local rescue group to have her transported. An individual was paid to drive her and a few other dogs up to New Jersey where we went to pick her and the others up. I've also participated in the transports that others referenced in this thread. There are also paid "haulers" who will drive dogs up in trailers specifically designed to hold dogs. I've even seen a bus retro-fitted to hold dog crates for transports.

With respect to hunting, I have never been hunting and will never hunt. Though I have no first-hand experience here, I am aware that many hunters (perhaps not in your circle) will obtain dogs at the beginning of hunting season and then will just abandon them at the end of the season because they no longer have a use for them and don't want to pay for their food. I know you'll say this doesn't happen in your circle, but have you really never heard of this happening at all?

Those are just some of the dogs that wind up in the shelters, and that is why some wind up in these transports. I've seen lots of coonhounds and beagles make their way up north and have personally driven them to rescue groups that get their dogs entirely from the south. If hunters aren't abandoning them or dropping them off at shelters, where are they coming from?????

Loves - I don't know that this qualifies for all states or counties, but from where I am from, there are uncounted programs that work to spay and neuter strays and ferals. We have a cat nip program, as well as free programs for pitts and hound dogs.

I've NEVER heard of animals being gassed to be put to sleep? Never even read it anywhere. As far as I know animals are put to sleep using shots, though most of the shelters I've experienced will work to find rescues either local or out of town to take animals who need them. If I missed the gassing thing please enlighten me on that, b/c that's awful. At the same time as you all get animals from down here though, it's not uncommon for there to be advertisements about bully breeds or other breeds from up north needing homes as well. Like I said, it's in all directions! It's not just one area.

As to dogs being abandoned. I have heard of hunting dogs being abandoned, and have actually taken two or three in. GENERALLY it is not a season to season thing as you have heard. IF it happens, it's jerks who have one of the following. A) An older female who has had litters and who they don't want to feed, and can't keep up with hunting OR B) a dog who simply doesn't have the instincts. I don't agree with this and I think it is horrible. It is highly uncommon though from what I know. In Florida for sure it is. We are required to have our hunting dogs registered with an ID number printed on their collar along with tag and registration. The ID number references back to the dog, the hunting club and the owner. IF a dog is found wandering with that ID they will investigate why it is wandering and it's health as well. Most hunters down here pay good money for their dogs and take care of them. Many will spend as much time as needed to find a missing dog if one should turn up astray. If a dog is injured they'll spend the time and money to get them all healed up again. That's always been my experience and what I've known.

 

[waterlilly]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

DF - I think everyone agrees that neglect and abuse of animals occur everywhere. I live in CT, and I have personally witnessed animals kept in unbelievably disgusting conditions, and it took A LOT for the state and local animal control to do anything about it, including getting local tv media involved and posting the situation on Craigslist in order to get people essentially to harass and shame local government officials. So, yes, cruelty exists everywhere. What I think this thread is about though is the fact that in the South, people often regard animals differently than most people regard them in other areas of the country. In many parts of the south, dogs and cats are not routinely spayed and neutered, they are left to roam and are often left outside without companionship. I think you said yourself that you believe that some dogs like to be left alone outside or kenneled. I do not feel that way, and I don't know anyone in my area who leaves their dogs alone outside all day and all night long.

When un-neutered dogs are left to roam, puppies result. Those puppies wind up in the shelters and are often gassed. We also don't do this in CT, and though no means of euthanasia for perfectly healthy puppies and adult dogs is ideal, I find gassing a particularly offensive way to deal with an overpopulation problem that would be much reduced if people would just spay/neuter and keep their dogs under their control. So, people like me in CT get e-mails with pictures of adorable dogs like the beagle/hound mix in my avatar, are told they will be put to death in a matter of days, sometimes hours, unless someone steps up and agrees to adopt them. And, that is how we adopted our girl Lucy who was a stray in Georgia and that is just one of the ways that dogs make their way up north. I arranged for a rescue group to work with the local rescue group to have her transported. An individual was paid to drive her and a few other dogs up to New Jersey where we went to pick her and the others up. I've also participated in the transports that others referenced in this thread. There are also paid "haulers" who will drive dogs up in trailers specifically designed to hold dogs. I've even seen a bus retro-fitted to hold dog crates for transports.

With respect to hunting, I have never been hunting and will never hunt. Though I have no first-hand experience here, I am aware that many hunters (perhaps not in your circle) will obtain dogs at the beginning of hunting season and then will just abandon them at the end of the season because they no longer have a use for them and don't want to pay for their food. I know you'll say this doesn't happen in your circle, but have you really never heard of this happening at all?

Those are just some of the dogs that wind up in the shelters, and that is why some wind up in these transports. I've seen lots of coonhounds and beagles make their way up north and have personally driven them to rescue groups that get their dogs entirely from the south. If hunters aren't abandoning them or dropping them off at shelters, where are they coming from?????

Loves - I don't know that this qualifies for all states or counties, but from where I am from, there are uncounted programs that work to spay and neuter strays and ferals. We have a cat nip program, as well as free programs for pitts and hound dogs.

I've NEVER heard of animals being gassed to be put to sleep? Never even read it anywhere. As far as I know animals are put to sleep using shots, though most of the shelters I've experienced will work to find rescues either local or out of town to take animals who need them. If I missed the gassing thing please enlighten me on that, b/c that's awful. At the same time as you all get animals from down here though, it's not uncommon for there to be advertisements about bully breeds or other breeds from up north needing homes as well. Like I said, it's in all directions! It's not just one area.

As to dogs being abandoned. I have heard of hunting dogs being abandoned, and have actually taken two or three in. GENERALLY it is not a season to season thing as you have heard. IF it happens, it's jerks who have one of the following. A) An older female who has had litters and who they don't want to feed, and can't keep up with hunting OR B) a dog who simply doesn't have the instincts. I don't agree with this and I think it is horrible. It is highly uncommon though from what I know. In Florida for sure it is. We are required to have our hunting dogs registered with an ID number printed on their collar along with tag and registration. The ID number references back to the dog, the hunting club and the owner. IF a dog is found wandering with that ID they will investigate why it is wandering and it's health as well. Most hunters down here pay good money for their dogs and take care of them. Many will spend as much time as needed to find a missing dog if one should turn up astray. If a dog is injured they'll spend the time and money to get them all healed up again. That's always been my experience and what I've known.

Like you post about "how do you know dogs have migrated from the south" and now the comment about having NEVER heard of dogs being gassed - this all indicates that you really do not understand the problem. I urge you to educate yourself more on the issue, especially if you are going to be on the defense about it. Gas chambers are not just in the south, you can find this method used in kill shelters around the country, but here are a few articles about them in southern states.

http://www.animallawcoalition.com/gas-chambers/article/1592

http://alisondb.legislature.state.al.us/acas/ACASLoginIE.asp

 

[dragonfly411]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Waterlilly - I didn't ask that question. I'm rather educated on the topic, having worked with rescues, and knowing what I see as someone who has lived in the south my whole life. No I hadn't heard of gas chambers, that doesn't make me uneducated on this topic. I'll read the links. Thanks!

ETA = Waterlilly that second link did not work. I'd be interested to know if this is commonplace, or just on a county by county basis. I'll be checking into FL as well.

 

[waterlilly]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Waterlilly - I didn't ask that question. I'm rather educated on the topic, having worked with rescues, and knowing what I see as someone who has lived in the south my whole life. No I hadn't heard of gas chambers, that doesn't make me uneducated on this topic. I'll read the links. Thanks!

ETA = Waterlilly that second link did not work. I'd be interested to know if this is commonplace, or just on a county by county basis. I'll be checking into FL as well.

Very sorry - my apologies, it was not you that asked that original question.

 

[CNOS128]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Isn't all hunting a form of animal abuse? Forget the dogs... what about the poor deer?

 

[sctsbride09]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

BIG T- Do you eat meat? Drink milk? Wear leather, suede, etc. Completely unfair to call hunters animal abusers.

 

[packrat]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I think it was Dragonfly who pointed out earlier what happens to unchecked animal populations. Diseases spread like wildfire and they die a lot slower and more painfully than a gunshot.

 

[Sha]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I don't know about the U.S South, but in the Caribbean (where I live), all dogs are kept outside. (The only people who keep them inside are Americans/other expatriates - and that's seen to be strange). There's absolutely no need to keep a dog inside in the Caribbean, when temperatures are always warm. Plus, in warm, rainy climates, you're going to have a lot of mud and bugs - that's unavoidable. And so if your dogs spend a good deal of time outdoors, as most dogs will in warm climes, then your house will also get muddy and buggy if the dog also spends time indoors. I had a pretty awful experience with this. We've always kept our dogs outside...but when I was going through my divorce, I kept my only dog (at the time) inside my apartment most nights, for company...because I was lonely. He slept at the foot of my bed. Everything was lovely...except that one week after my floor was literally crawling with fleas!!! They were everywhere! It was not pretty!!! I had to strip the whole apartment and clean in from top to bottom. Of course, my dog (Phoenix) returned outside. You might say he wouldn't have developed fleas if he were clean and bathed regularly - -but It's not practical to bathe a dog everyday, especially if he spends most of his time outdoors where fleas, ticks, and other bugs abound. When we were growing up our dogs were bathed about once a month.

It's also not a requirement that dogs be walked, especially if they have large spaces to run about and play. That's something that may have developed in the U.S where dogs are confined to smaller spaces, perhaps? We've always had dogs growing up, and our dogs had large yards in which to run about and play. They would literally chase each other around the house many times a day... so they got their exercise! Sometimes we would walk them - but again, not a requirement.

In the Caribbean, dogs are also seen as protection for the house, since they bark readily at strange noises/people and will alert homeowners to possible intruders.

Lots of people in the Caribbean love their dogs and treat them as family (our family included), but I think generally they're treated here as animals with utilitarian value. Most people here think that Americans coddle and overly domesticate their pets (e.g dressing them up, feeding them gourmet meals etc.) - so maybe some of it is just a difference in culture. I do agree that some forms of treatment do amount to mistreatment, though.

 

[dragonfly411]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I think it was Dragonfly who pointed out earlier what happens to unchecked animal populations. Diseases spread like wildfire and they die a lot slower and more painfully than a gunshot.

Packrat - Wasn't me, but it was very true.

If were no hunting, there would be a mass overpopulation of the animals we do hunt. We as humans, eradicated most of the natural predators in this nation and world. If we didn't hunt, deer, rabbits, turkeys, hogs, all of them would continue to breed and mass populate. As they did, they would destroy their own natural resources, which would result in starvation among not only themselves, but other species. This starvation would slowly work its way through the food chain, eliminating more and more species. Diseases would be more widespread, and would begin to infiltrate our domesticated animals due to the large numbers of these animals.

In states/areas where deer hunting is not allowed, the most common cause of auto accident related death is from deer.

Here in FL, we've seen a reduction in the number of deer and hogs we are allowed to take on state land. We have also seen an increase in the number of deer seen in higher population areas. Our forests are being rooted up by the hogs, and the deer are moving closer to town as their numbers grow, but their resources reduce. They are looking for fresh foliage and our yards provide it. We have 10-12 point 200lb bucks walking around in my hometown on high traffic roads, where we never saw them before. Wild hogs tear up the crops that our farmers rely on to survive, to provide their income.

Hunting also provides food for families that partake in it both as a sport and as a food resource. It is beneficial to both the animals and to people. Respectable, and responsible hunters also care for their dogs, and from my experience, that is the norm.

Down off soapbox.

 

[steph72276]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I don't see how posting sweeping generalizations of an entire region is helpful in the discussion of pet neglect and abuse. I've lived in the South my entire life and my friends with dogs treat them like a family member. If people didn't take care of their pets, you could've fooled me with the massive lines at Pet Smart and the long waits at the vet. Classless people that abuse their pets live everywhere unfortunately, not just in the South.

 

[JewelFreak]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Yes, we know, Steph. It's been stated about a zillion times in this thread.

And our town here in the South kills at the shelter once a week, which is all the time a picked-up animal gets. They just recently stopped using gas when the newspaper made a deal about it. "Gas is so much more economical," the shelter personnel opined resentfully.

A couple years ago I found a sweet adorable stray Siberian/Malamute mix. Took him around nearby neighborhoods to see if anybody recognized him -- when I encountered a local cop on his way to work I asked if he knew the dog. "No," he replied, "but DON"T take a nice dog like that to the shelter!" Speaks volumes if a policeman tells you that. (I found him a fabulous home.)

-- Laurie

 

[ksinger]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Yes, we know, Steph. It's been stated about a zillion times in this thread.

And our town here in the South kills at the shelter once a week, which is all the time a picked-up animal gets. They just recently stopped using gas when the newspaper made a deal about it. "Gas is so much more economical," the shelter personnel opined resentfully.

A couple years ago I found a sweet adorable stray Siberian/Malamute mix. Took him around nearby neighborhoods to see if anybody recognized him -- when I encountered a local cop on his way to work I asked if he knew the dog. "No," he replied, "but DON"T take a nice dog like that to the shelter!" Speaks volumes if a policeman tells you that. (I found him a fabulous home.)

-- Laurie

Well, back to the original topic, you asked for an explanation...have you found one?

 

[waterlilly]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I don't see how posting sweeping generalizations of an entire region is helpful in the discussion of pet neglect and abuse. I've lived in the South my entire life and my friends with dogs treat them like a family member. If people didn't take care of their pets, you could've fooled me with the massive lines at Pet Smart and the long waits at the vet. Classless people that abuse their pets live everywhere unfortunately, not just in the South.

Yes, everyone is the same everywhere. The entire US is made of one single culture. All regions are populated by people who all hold the exact same views, values, beliefs on all topics.

 

[CNOS128]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Ah, well. Perhaps we should reintroduce wolves and natural predators into the places that suffer from deer overpopulation. Or, sterilize some deer so there are fewer of them to hunt.
http://www.humanesociety.org/news/press_releases/2011/02/maryland_humane_deer_management_sterilization_021510.html

Hmm, but wait. Maybe I don't have a problem with hunting so much as I think it's creepy that people would kill innocent animals (and enjoy it?) for sport. And then hang their heads on the wall. Yeah, that's more my issue.

 

[JewelFreak]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Well, back to the original topic, you asked for an explanation...have you found one?

Not a new one, Karen. I hoped for some big illumination but there doesn't seem to be one, people being human. Here's my opinions & what I gather others here discern:

1) Dismal ignorance. In most cases I've come across, accompanied by unwillingness to learn anything new. (Especially from a Yankee.)
2) "My great-grandpappy did it this way & I do it this way:" cultural history inherited to some extent from old planting & hunting days.
3) Self-centered ("I don't have time!"), unempathetic people who view an animal like any other possession: a thing.
4) As in every other place where jerks are found, these attitudes are not confined to any single educational background or economic tier, but I repeat that I see them more in the South -- and accepted by more people. I AM NOT SAYING IT DOESN'T EXIST ELSEWHERE, ok? I'M NOT SAYING EVERYBODY HERE IS THE SAME.

It is comforting to hear from so many kind & caring animal lovers, from all parts. I wish it were easier to pass this around & infect everybody!

--- Laurie

 

[ksinger]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Well, on a related note (since this topic has gone off the rails about the evils of hunting) I just got back from the Wanenmacher Tulsa Arms Show, which is billed as - and I think truly IS - the largest gun show in the US. Over 4000 tables of guns, ammo, knives, paraphernalia, and historical military artifacts. Some of the guns they had there, are truly works of art - Italian, English, American, German - shotguns with incredible engraving and wood, going for 40 grand and up. I always enjoy seeing those for the sheer craftsmanship involved.

Anyway, I thought of this thread as we wandered through, thinking of the freaked-out culture shock that would be suffered by many in here and on PS in general, to see the NRA working the door, and to see literally thousands of people - many of them hunters - wandering around, loaded down with guns of all varieties, and not a single person seeming concerned at all by that fact. We carried in 3 ourselves. Carried out only one, and nearly 3 grand. A worthwhile trip.


** de rigueur disclaimer - Because some will undoubtedly wonder, I have not shot a gun in 25 years, I have never killed a living creature with one, my dog is a well-fed rescue, sleeps inside in good weather and bad, puppy pre-washes all the plates, and is currently lolling in living room. I also just bought a bag of Iams for the local pregnant stray black kitty who has adopted me because she knows I'm a pushover.

 

[iLander]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

@JewelFreak

Maybe fleas also play a part? The flea problem in the south is worse, because there is no snow or severe cold to beat back the flea population. As the poster from the Caribbean pointed out, it's fleaville in warm areas.

I'm wondering if this (plus the things you posted above) could be a factor?

ETA Still find animal neglect sad and pitiful, though. I understand why it upsets you, it does me too.

 

[iLander]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Well, on a related note (since this topic has gone off the rails about the evils of hunting) I just got back from the Wanenmacher Tulsa Arms Show, which is billed as - and I think truly IS - the largest gun show in the US. Over 4000 tables of guns, ammo, knives, paraphernalia, and historical military artifacts. Some of the guns they had there, are truly works of art - Italian, English, American, German - shotguns with incredible engraving and wood, going for 40 grand and up. I always enjoy seeing those for the sheer craftsmanship involved.

Anyway, I thought of this thread as we wandered through, thinking of the freaked-out culture shock that would be suffered by many in here and on PS in general, to see the NRA working the door, and to see literally thousands of people - many of them hunters - wandering around, loaded down with guns of all varieties, and not a single person seeming concerned at all by that fact. We carried in 3 ourselves. Carried out only one, and nearly 3 grand. A worthwhile trip.


** de rigueur disclaimer - Because some will undoubtedly wonder, I have not shot a gun in 25 years, I have never killed a living creature with one, my dog is a well-fed rescue, sleeps inside in good weather and bad, puppy pre-washes all the plates, and is currently lolling in living room. I also just bought a bag of Iams for the local pregnant stray black kitty who has adopted me because she knows I'm a pushover.

Yeah . . . that would freak me out.

But if it makes you happy, then more power to you.

And when you come to a metaphysical fair with sage burnings, aura cleansings and palm readings, you have to promise to be nice back.

 

[iheartscience]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Well, on a related note (since this topic has gone off the rails about the evils of hunting) I just got back from the Wanenmacher Tulsa Arms Show, which is billed as - and I think truly IS - the largest gun show in the US. Over 4000 tables of guns, ammo, knives, paraphernalia, and historical military artifacts. Some of the guns they had there, are truly works of art - Italian, English, American, German - shotguns with incredible engraving and wood, going for 40 grand and up. I always enjoy seeing those for the sheer craftsmanship involved.

Anyway, I thought of this thread as we wandered through, thinking of the freaked-out culture shock that would be suffered by many in here and on PS in general, to see the NRA working the door, and to see literally thousands of people - many of them hunters - wandering around, loaded down with guns of all varieties, and not a single person seeming concerned at all by that fact. We carried in 3 ourselves. Carried out only one, and nearly 3 grand. A worthwhile trip.


** de rigueur disclaimer - Because some will undoubtedly wonder, I have not shot a gun in 25 years, I have never killed a living creature with one, my dog is a well-fed rescue, sleeps inside in good weather and bad, puppy pre-washes all the plates, and is currently lolling in living room. I also just bought a bag of Iams for the local pregnant stray black kitty who has adopted me because she knows I'm a pushover.

Eh, my family members probably own enough guns to put on their own gun show. My great-grandfather and grandfather were gunsmiths, and I've been shooting non-BB guns since the age of 6 or so.

Gun shows aren't my thing, though-way too many "Heritage Not Hate" bumper stickers for sale.

 

[ksinger]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Well, on a related note (since this topic has gone off the rails about the evils of hunting) I just got back from the Wanenmacher Tulsa Arms Show, which is billed as - and I think truly IS - the largest gun show in the US. Over 4000 tables of guns, ammo, knives, paraphernalia, and historical military artifacts. Some of the guns they had there, are truly works of art - Italian, English, American, German - shotguns with incredible engraving and wood, going for 40 grand and up. I always enjoy seeing those for the sheer craftsmanship involved.

Anyway, I thought of this thread as we wandered through, thinking of the freaked-out culture shock that would be suffered by many in here and on PS in general, to see the NRA working the door, and to see literally thousands of people - many of them hunters - wandering around, loaded down with guns of all varieties, and not a single person seeming concerned at all by that fact. We carried in 3 ourselves. Carried out only one, and nearly 3 grand. A worthwhile trip.


** de rigueur disclaimer - Because some will undoubtedly wonder, I have not shot a gun in 25 years, I have never killed a living creature with one, my dog is a well-fed rescue, sleeps inside in good weather and bad, puppy pre-washes all the plates, and is currently lolling in living room. I also just bought a bag of Iams for the local pregnant stray black kitty who has adopted me because she knows I'm a pushover.

Yeah . . . that would freak me out.

But if it makes you happy, then more power to you.

And when you come to a metaphysical fair with sage burnings, aura cleansings and palm readings, you have to promise to be nice back.

Gun shows don't make me happy (I've been to only 4 in the last 25 years), I'm happy pretty much wherever I go, since happiness is an inside job. How's that for a metaphysical truth? You might be surprised to know I lived a life similar to yours (from a metaphysical standpoint) for quite a few years. I've probably been to as many - maybe more - metaphysical "events" than you have. Certainly more than most, and that alone should give you a clue about why I can also easily flow into a gun show and not have it mean that I'm some sort of potential candidate for going postal. Now, do I "hang out" at gunshows? Of course not. But do they scare me or infect me? Well, I certainly don't think so. (need a twitchy emotie for here)

As I said, I knew the freakouts would occur, but I still can't for the life of me understand why. Surely you can't think that just because people have guns that they are all nuts or harbor ill-will in their hearts or want to kill things? THAT is a mindset I can't understand at all. These are by and large, normal people - including doctors, engineers, and church goers. And here's a newsflash - the guns are certified unloaded and rendered unfireable (by ziplock strips) at the door. So the guns they carry can't be used (except as clubs maybe).

And I promise to be nice to you iLander. I'LL even walk the sage widdershins to banish all negativity.

 

[ksinger]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Well, on a related note (since this topic has gone off the rails about the evils of hunting) I just got back from the Wanenmacher Tulsa Arms Show, which is billed as - and I think truly IS - the largest gun show in the US. Over 4000 tables of guns, ammo, knives, paraphernalia, and historical military artifacts. Some of the guns they had there, are truly works of art - Italian, English, American, German - shotguns with incredible engraving and wood, going for 40 grand and up. I always enjoy seeing those for the sheer craftsmanship involved.

Anyway, I thought of this thread as we wandered through, thinking of the freaked-out culture shock that would be suffered by many in here and on PS in general, to see the NRA working the door, and to see literally thousands of people - many of them hunters - wandering around, loaded down with guns of all varieties, and not a single person seeming concerned at all by that fact. We carried in 3 ourselves. Carried out only one, and nearly 3 grand. A worthwhile trip.


** de rigueur disclaimer - Because some will undoubtedly wonder, I have not shot a gun in 25 years, I have never killed a living creature with one, my dog is a well-fed rescue, sleeps inside in good weather and bad, puppy pre-washes all the plates, and is currently lolling in living room. I also just bought a bag of Iams for the local pregnant stray black kitty who has adopted me because she knows I'm a pushover.

Eh, my family members probably own enough guns to put on their own gun show. My great-grandfather and grandfather were gunsmiths, and I've been shooting non-BB guns since the age of 6 or so.

Gun shows aren't my thing, though-way too many "Heritage Not Hate" bumper stickers for sale.

Hubs did at one time too, but has been slowly divesting himself of the lion's share of them. We don't normally go to shows, but this one is truly a very special show, and the best place to get rid of collector stuff. Hardly any cheap/paranoid/plastic stuff at all at this show. And it was fun because it was something we used to do when we were 18, so also a trip down lost-youth lane.