Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. South?

[elrohwen]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I've spent time in animal shelters in the northeast and almost all of the dogs come from the south. There just isn't a stray dog population up here, but there is a large one in the south and a never ending supply of cute beagles and hound dogs to be adopted by those up here. It's very sad. I think education is really the key, but I have no idea how to go about it.

I own rabbits which are typically treated worse than an average dog or cat - bought as an object, kept in a tiny cage, released into the wild when the owners get bored. I think the state of pets in the US is improving, but not quickly enough.

How are these dogs migrating from the South to Northeast??? How do you know all of the stray dogs in your area have travelled so far? Just curious .....

Because people from the shelter drive down and pick them up from kill shelters in the south

eta: I should add that we have a pretty big feral cat population up here, so I'm not saying the NE is perfect in anyway. I would agree that we treat dogs better than the south, but not necessarily all animals. Spay and neuter programs are also very popular up north, which cuts down on the number of unwanted dogs. A big problem in the south isn't necessarily neglect but lack of spay/neuter programs and education (and acceptance).

 

[packrat]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I've spent time in animal shelters in the northeast and almost all of the dogs come from the south. There just isn't a stray dog population up here, but there is a large one in the south and a never ending supply of cute beagles and hound dogs to be adopted by those up here. It's very sad. I think education is really the key, but I have no idea how to go about it.

I own rabbits which are typically treated worse than an average dog or cat - bought as an object, kept in a tiny cage, released into the wild when the owners get bored. I think the state of pets in the US is improving, but not quickly enough.

How are these dogs migrating from the South to Northeast??? How do you know all of the stray dogs in your area have travelled so far? Just curious .....

I think migrating swallows carry the smaller ones. I heard they can carry coconuts so I suppose a small dog isn't much of a stretch for them.

 

[dragonfly411]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Having a dog is a lot easier in the South. Generally property is cheaper and most people have a back yard. The weather is milder, so it seldom snows or even gets that cold. Someone could easily have a dog that requires minor upkeep in the South, whereas I think with the need for daily walks in the Northeast, more dear property, and cold weather, there is going to be a lot more work involved in owning an animal. In the Northeast, I doubt there are many outdoor-only pets, so people have to groom and bathe the pets to bring them into their homes. I'd say that there is just overall more effort in maintaining a pet outside of the South (or other places with similar profiles) and that the tendency towards inertia cannot be overstated. In the Northeast, you would need to *want* a pet to make such a daily commitment to its upkeep.

I think this thread has also varied between criticism of people who keep dogs in their backyards and rarely interact with them to people who truly neglect the pets and refuse medical care, chain them up continuously, or beat/starve them. There's a huge difference between these two things and although I don't think the first is ideal, I do not think it is unethical. I would say that this scenario is probably more common in the South because of the factors listed above and because the mentality is a little bit more like everyone is "on their own". As in, "I give the dog food and water, make sure it has shelter and room to run around safely, and an occasional bath, but the dog is on its own for interaction and level of cleanliness."

To be fair, I'm also not sure you could blame someone if they didn't seek all the best medical care for their animals if their other family members were uninsured or underinsured. With so many people losing their health insurance over the past 10 years, I think this could also be a contributing factor.

Keeping a dog in the backyard (usually by itself) and ignoring it IS truly neglect. Why get a dog if this is how you're going to treat it? It makes NO SENSE.

Thing2 - some animals are used for a purpose. They are not meant as pets. They were not bred to be pets. It is not in their genetics to act as pets. Hunting dogs do much better outside, in a yard, with plenty of room to move. They do not like being indoors. They don't like being in small spaces. They aren't apt to spend a lot of time cuddling either. How is that neglect? It's putting the animal into a situation that fits it's requirements. It's the same with any working dog. A border collie won't be at it's happiest in a house with no yard and only going for short walks. They are far too active for that type of lifestyle.


This thread has me pretty upset, as lumping the south together seems to be a pretty common thing on PS lately, and it's pretty narrow minded. But just to enlighten everyone:

http://www.thedogfiles.com/2011/03/23/patrick-the-miracle-dog-survives-abuse-needs-a-home/ - New Jersey

http://www.wilx.com/news/headlines/Men_Charged_in_Separate_Animal_Abuse_Cases_118947069.html - Michigan

http://www.greenfieldreporter.com/view/story/225c402a5c5246a5a4a1a031a6def324/MN--Animals-Starved/ - Minnesota

http://www.heartlandconnection.com/news/story.aspx?id=598699 - Iowa

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/mar/11/dog-rescue-operator-gets-probation-neglect-case/ - San Diego

http://crimecrawlers.wordpress.com/2011/03/11/a-horse-concentration-camp-found-in-central-illinois/ - Illinois

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/18/sports/18horses.html?_r=4 - New York

http://articles.chicagobreakingnews.com/2011-03-09/news/28674380_1_animal-neglect-sickly-dogs-surrenders - chicago

http://www.compassionforcamden.org/mean.html - New Jersey

http://fortheloveofthedogblog.com/news-updates/severely-neglected-dog-abandoned-in-front-of-animal-hospital-animal-hospital-does-nothing-video - New York

http://www.bakersfieldnow.com/news/investigations/116014384.html - California

http://www.katu.com/news/30141499.html - Oregon

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I've spent time in animal shelters in the northeast and almost all of the dogs come from the south. There just isn't a stray dog population up here, but there is a large one in the south and a never ending supply of cute beagles and hound dogs to be adopted by those up here. It's very sad. I think education is really the key, but I have no idea how to go about it.

I own rabbits which are typically treated worse than an average dog or cat - bought as an object, kept in a tiny cage, released into the wild when the owners get bored. I think the state of pets in the US is improving, but not quickly enough.

AHA! I think I have figured it out!

In the south, dogs were traditionally used to hunt "coon" and stuff. They are considered possessions, and equipment. They were treated that way for generations in hunting areas of the south.

LD, do you live in a hunting area? Maybe the attitude toward hunting dogs is overlapping onto non-hunting breeds?

Up north, what little hunting there was (not enough open country/wildlife), usually had an air of traditon and some sophistication. Hunting for ducks is more ritualized than hunting for "coon for dinner".

I live in the Pac Northwest and we eat mass "coon" up here. I'm offended to read that this isn't considered sophisticated epecially when that was what we served when my cousin married her cousin and they're both in high corporate jobs making $100K each and considered the coon a delicacy. Pairs nicely with coors light.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I've spent time in animal shelters in the northeast and almost all of the dogs come from the south. There just isn't a stray dog population up here, but there is a large one in the south and a never ending supply of cute beagles and hound dogs to be adopted by those up here. It's very sad. I think education is really the key, but I have no idea how to go about it.

I own rabbits which are typically treated worse than an average dog or cat - bought as an object, kept in a tiny cage, released into the wild when the owners get bored. I think the state of pets in the US is improving, but not quickly enough.

AHA! I think I have figured it out!

In the south, dogs were traditionally used to hunt "coon" and stuff. They are considered possessions, and equipment. They were treated that way for generations in hunting areas of the south.

LD, do you live in a hunting area? Maybe the attitude toward hunting dogs is overlapping onto non-hunting breeds?

Up north, what little hunting there was (not enough open country/wildlife), usually had an air of traditon and some sophistication. Hunting for ducks is more ritualized than hunting for "coon for dinner".

I live in the Pac Northwest and we eat mass "coon" up here. I'm offended to read that this isn't considered sophisticated epecially when that was what we served when my cousin married her cousin and they're both in high corporate jobs making $100K each and considered the coon a delicacy. Pairs nicely with coors light.

Um...my family is from rural NH/VT and we hunted regularly for "coon," bear, squirrels and deer. Up here dogs are best used for bird hunting, which we also did. I don't think I'd call the hunting my family did "sophisticated" or "ritualized."

Once again, generalizations.....

 

[Selkie]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Oops, never mind, I got lost in the maze of quotes and requotes!

 

[VapidLapid]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I don't like to see that we are throwing flaming bags of turds across some imaginary canine dixie line. We all know dogs are regarded differently in different parts of the world by breed and owner purposes. It's not just dogs. Cows i think are more than welcome in the living room in india; here we prefer them in the dining room. Making generalizations about the south may be unfair in that there are always exceptions to generalizations. But if you know they are generalizations than you know that they are not exhaustive and can still contain some truth. Countering those generalizations with more generalizations is no less off the mark. Humans and canines evolved together and they continue to do so. We evolve and our lifestyles change and our ideas of right and wrong grow and deepen. Having consciousness and intelligence we hopefully can direct our evolution in positive, more just, and compassionate ways, striving to become better people rather than just accepting what has been and carelessly perpetuating it.
I spoil my dog terribly and he spoils me just as bad. But he's a pug. They were bred for no more than to keep the hands of the aristocracy warm. He would not fare well in the wild because pugs are not wild. They are domesticated animals. As our habits about our domiciles change our habits with our domestic animals will change.

 

[princesss]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Acrossley, I *have* lived in multiple places in the South (including right near where Thing2 grew up). You do not know my history, so please give me the benefit of the doubt and do not imply that I am talking out of my @$$ when I bring up my experiences. I have moved around a lot and have seen a lot, and when I make an observation based on my own experiences, it's generally not a flip comment.

 

[iheartscience]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Having a dog is a lot easier in the South. Generally property is cheaper and most people have a back yard. The weather is milder, so it seldom snows or even gets that cold. Someone could easily have a dog that requires minor upkeep in the South, whereas I think with the need for daily walks in the Northeast, more dear property, and cold weather, there is going to be a lot more work involved in owning an animal. In the Northeast, I doubt there are many outdoor-only pets, so people have to groom and bathe the pets to bring them into their homes. I'd say that there is just overall more effort in maintaining a pet outside of the South (or other places with similar profiles) and that the tendency towards inertia cannot be overstated. In the Northeast, you would need to *want* a pet to make such a daily commitment to its upkeep.

I think this thread has also varied between criticism of people who keep dogs in their backyards and rarely interact with them to people who truly neglect the pets and refuse medical care, chain them up continuously, or beat/starve them. There's a huge difference between these two things and although I don't think the first is ideal, I do not think it is unethical. I would say that this scenario is probably more common in the South because of the factors listed above and because the mentality is a little bit more like everyone is "on their own". As in, "I give the dog food and water, make sure it has shelter and room to run around safely, and an occasional bath, but the dog is on its own for interaction and level of cleanliness."

To be fair, I'm also not sure you could blame someone if they didn't seek all the best medical care for their animals if their other family members were uninsured or underinsured. With so many people losing their health insurance over the past 10 years, I think this could also be a contributing factor.

Keeping a dog in the backyard (usually by itself) and ignoring it IS truly neglect. Why get a dog if this is how you're going to treat it? It makes NO SENSE.

Thing2 - some animals are used for a purpose. They are not meant as pets. They were not bred to be pets. It is not in their genetics to act as pets. Hunting dogs do much better outside, in a yard, with plenty of room to move. They do not like being indoors. They don't like being in small spaces. They aren't apt to spend a lot of time cuddling either. How is that neglect? It's putting the animal into a situation that fits it's requirements. It's the same with any working dog. A border collie won't be at it's happiest in a house with no yard and only going for short walks. They are far too active for that type of lifestyle.

dragonfly, I am well aware that some animals are used for a purpose and are not bred as pets. As I've mentioned previously, I grew up in a rural area and I had and still have friends who live on working farms. But thank you anyway for the enlightening information.

Dogs are social animals and were domesticated thousands of years ago as companion animals as well as hunting and working dogs. They are not wild animals who want to be left alone so they can roam a tiny back yard by themselves. Every dog I've ever met or owned (including the 3 emaciated, sickly hunting dogs my family rescued from the redneck who lived through the woods) has absolutely loved being with people, indoors or outdoors.

You can't possibly believe that a dog chained up in a yard or even just left by itself in a fenced in yard is living in optimal conditions and is at its happiest. I agree that not all dogs need to be indoors, especially if they're working dogs. But being kept alone in a fenced yard or chained up isn't good for any dog, working, hunting or otherwise. No one in this thread is talking about a working dog being left alone to herd sheep on a farm.

Don't let your knee jerk defense of the South get in the way of basic facts.

 

[princesss]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I've spent time in animal shelters in the northeast and almost all of the dogs come from the south. There just isn't a stray dog population up here, but there is a large one in the south and a never ending supply of cute beagles and hound dogs to be adopted by those up here. It's very sad. I think education is really the key, but I have no idea how to go about it.

I own rabbits which are typically treated worse than an average dog or cat - bought as an object, kept in a tiny cage, released into the wild when the owners get bored. I think the state of pets in the US is improving, but not quickly enough.

AHA! I think I have figured it out!

In the south, dogs were traditionally used to hunt "coon" and stuff. They are considered possessions, and equipment. They were treated that way for generations in hunting areas of the south.

LD, do you live in a hunting area? Maybe the attitude toward hunting dogs is overlapping onto non-hunting breeds?

Up north, what little hunting there was (not enough open country/wildlife), usually had an air of traditon and some sophistication. Hunting for ducks is more ritualized than hunting for "coon for dinner".

I live in the Pac Northwest and we eat mass "coon" up here. I'm offended to read that this isn't considered sophisticated epecially when that was what we served when my cousin married her cousin and they're both in high corporate jobs making $100K each and considered the coon a delicacy. Pairs nicely with coors light.

In case you were wondering, you know how people use Neti pots when they have a sinus infection? (Like the one I've got now....) I can tell you now (from experience) that you should NOT get Diet Coke in your nasal cavities and expect it to do the same thing. Oh, it burns.

So, MC, please put a warning on your posts. Laughing + drinking Diet Coke = terribly uncomfortable nasal cavities. I will be forwarding you any doctor's bills that result...

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I've spent time in animal shelters in the northeast and almost all of the dogs come from the south. There just isn't a stray dog population up here, but there is a large one in the south and a never ending supply of cute beagles and hound dogs to be adopted by those up here. It's very sad. I think education is really the key, but I have no idea how to go about it.

I own rabbits which are typically treated worse than an average dog or cat - bought as an object, kept in a tiny cage, released into the wild when the owners get bored. I think the state of pets in the US is improving, but not quickly enough.

AHA! I think I have figured it out!

In the south, dogs were traditionally used to hunt "coon" and stuff. They are considered possessions, and equipment. They were treated that way for generations in hunting areas of the south.

LD, do you live in a hunting area? Maybe the attitude toward hunting dogs is overlapping onto non-hunting breeds?

Up north, what little hunting there was (not enough open country/wildlife), usually had an air of traditon and some sophistication. Hunting for ducks is more ritualized than hunting for "coon for dinner".

I live in the Pac Northwest and we eat mass "coon" up here. I'm offended to read that this isn't considered sophisticated epecially when that was what we served when my cousin married her cousin and they're both in high corporate jobs making $100K each and considered the coon a delicacy. Pairs nicely with coors light.

In case you were wondering, you know how people use Neti pots when they have a sinus infection? (Like the one I've got now....) I can tell you now (from experience) that you should NOT get Diet Coke in your nasal cavities and expect it to do the same thing. Oh, it burns.

So, MC, please put a warning on your posts. Laughing + drinking Diet Coke = terribly uncomfortable nasal cavities. I will be forwarding you any doctor's bills that result...

hahaha - I'm drinking DC right now...I'll be sure to try it out w/a neti pot. Sounds kinda awesome lol

 

[choro72]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I resonate with TGal's sentiment towards dog, down to the last letter. I won't go into how dogs are kept in Japan. I would never, never own a dog because I can't give the care they need.
I don't know much about the South (okay, I know nothing about the South), but I do believe that generalizations don't arise from thin air. It's up to the listeners to not base their acts on solely such information.

 

[dragonfly411]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Having a dog is a lot easier in the South. Generally property is cheaper and most people have a back yard. The weather is milder, so it seldom snows or even gets that cold. Someone could easily have a dog that requires minor upkeep in the South, whereas I think with the need for daily walks in the Northeast, more dear property, and cold weather, there is going to be a lot more work involved in owning an animal. In the Northeast, I doubt there are many outdoor-only pets, so people have to groom and bathe the pets to bring them into their homes. I'd say that there is just overall more effort in maintaining a pet outside of the South (or other places with similar profiles) and that the tendency towards inertia cannot be overstated. In the Northeast, you would need to *want* a pet to make such a daily commitment to its upkeep.

I think this thread has also varied between criticism of people who keep dogs in their backyards and rarely interact with them to people who truly neglect the pets and refuse medical care, chain them up continuously, or beat/starve them. There's a huge difference between these two things and although I don't think the first is ideal, I do not think it is unethical. I would say that this scenario is probably more common in the South because of the factors listed above and because the mentality is a little bit more like everyone is "on their own". As in, "I give the dog food and water, make sure it has shelter and room to run around safely, and an occasional bath, but the dog is on its own for interaction and level of cleanliness."

To be fair, I'm also not sure you could blame someone if they didn't seek all the best medical care for their animals if their other family members were uninsured or underinsured. With so many people losing their health insurance over the past 10 years, I think this could also be a contributing factor.

Keeping a dog in the backyard (usually by itself) and ignoring it IS truly neglect. Why get a dog if this is how you're going to treat it? It makes NO SENSE.

Thing2 - some animals are used for a purpose. They are not meant as pets. They were not bred to be pets. It is not in their genetics to act as pets. Hunting dogs do much better outside, in a yard, with plenty of room to move. They do not like being indoors. They don't like being in small spaces. They aren't apt to spend a lot of time cuddling either. How is that neglect? It's putting the animal into a situation that fits it's requirements. It's the same with any working dog. A border collie won't be at it's happiest in a house with no yard and only going for short walks. They are far too active for that type of lifestyle.

dragonfly, I am well aware that some animals are used for a purpose and are not bred as pets. As I've mentioned previously, I grew up in a rural area and I had and still have friends who live on working farms. But thank you anyway for the enlightening information.

Dogs are social animals and were domesticated thousands of years ago as companion animals as well as hunting and working dogs. They are not wild animals who want to be left alone so they can roam a tiny back yard by themselves. Every dog I've ever met or owned (including the 3 emaciated, sickly hunting dogs my family rescued from the redneck who lived through the woods) has absolutely loved being with people, indoors or outdoors.

You can't possibly believe that a dog chained up in a yard or even just left by itself in a fenced in yard is living in optimal conditions and is at its happiest. I agree that not all dogs need to be indoors, especially if they're working dogs. But being kept alone in a fenced yard or chained up isn't good for any dog, working, hunting or otherwise. No one in this thread is talking about a working dog being left alone to herd sheep on a farm.

Don't let your knee jerk defense of the South get in the way of basic facts.

Thing - I do agree that a dog isn't going to be happiest if left completely 100% alone. I also do think it's important to have proper shelter. Not all dogs need or want human companionship though. A good example is my sister's dog she got not too long ago. If left to his own devices, he'd be THRILLED to live outside and on our back porch ALL THE TIME, and would probably wag his tail at us but otherwise not care too much if we're there. He loves to run, chase butterflies, play with the cat, and bark at the road. He doesn't much notice us, indoors or out, unless we have human food in our hands. It's just his nature.

My grandfather kept hunting dogs. They had kennels and large yard runs. They generally didn't even glance my way unless I was carrying food. They were just as happy in their yards, with their neighbors.


editing to expand - I will say I don't think it's ok to just chain a dog up in a yard no. To me though, if a dog is in good health, well maintained, living in a yard, and appears relaxed and happy, then I don't see that as neglect. I've had many a yard dog and they were quite happy in the yard. My family has kept many hunting dogs, and they've all been happy and healthy. I don't see a problem with that. It gives them a home where they can act at their will, versus being on the streets possibly starving or being run over.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I've spent time in animal shelters in the northeast and almost all of the dogs come from the south. There just isn't a stray dog population up here, but there is a large one in the south and a never ending supply of cute beagles and hound dogs to be adopted by those up here. It's very sad. I think education is really the key, but I have no idea how to go about it.

I own rabbits which are typically treated worse than an average dog or cat - bought as an object, kept in a tiny cage, released into the wild when the owners get bored. I think the state of pets in the US is improving, but not quickly enough.

AHA! I think I have figured it out!

In the south, dogs were traditionally used to hunt "coon" and stuff. They are considered possessions, and equipment. They were treated that way for generations in hunting areas of the south.

LD, do you live in a hunting area? Maybe the attitude toward hunting dogs is overlapping onto non-hunting breeds?

Up north, what little hunting there was (not enough open country/wildlife), usually had an air of traditon and some sophistication. Hunting for ducks is more ritualized than hunting for "coon for dinner".

I live in the Pac Northwest and we eat mass "coon" up here. I'm offended to read that this isn't considered sophisticated epecially when that was what we served when my cousin married her cousin and they're both in high corporate jobs making $100K each and considered the coon a delicacy. Pairs nicely with coors light.

Um...my family is from rural NH/VT and we hunted regularly for "coon," bear, squirrels and deer. Up here dogs are best used for bird hunting, which we also did. I don't think I'd call the hunting my family did "sophisticated" or "ritualized."

Once again, generalizations.....

It was a joke! Around here, people feed raccoons. Flyers and emails are sent out by HOAs requesting that people quit feeding them cat food.

Nobody got mad at me when I posted a recipe for 'possum

 

[dragonfly411]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I've spent time in animal shelters in the northeast and almost all of the dogs come from the south. There just isn't a stray dog population up here, but there is a large one in the south and a never ending supply of cute beagles and hound dogs to be adopted by those up here. It's very sad. I think education is really the key, but I have no idea how to go about it.

I own rabbits which are typically treated worse than an average dog or cat - bought as an object, kept in a tiny cage, released into the wild when the owners get bored. I think the state of pets in the US is improving, but not quickly enough.

AHA! I think I have figured it out!

In the south, dogs were traditionally used to hunt "coon" and stuff. They are considered possessions, and equipment. They were treated that way for generations in hunting areas of the south.

LD, do you live in a hunting area? Maybe the attitude toward hunting dogs is overlapping onto non-hunting breeds?

Up north, what little hunting there was (not enough open country/wildlife), usually had an air of traditon and some sophistication. Hunting for ducks is more ritualized than hunting for "coon for dinner".

I live in the Pac Northwest and we eat mass "coon" up here. I'm offended to read that this isn't considered sophisticated epecially when that was what we served when my cousin married her cousin and they're both in high corporate jobs making $100K each and considered the coon a delicacy. Pairs nicely with coors light.

Um...my family is from rural NH/VT and we hunted regularly for "coon," bear, squirrels and deer. Up here dogs are best used for bird hunting, which we also did. I don't think I'd call the hunting my family did "sophisticated" or "ritualized."

Once again, generalizations.....

It was a joke! Around here, people feed raccoons. Flyers and emails are sent out by HOAs requesting that people quit feeding them cat food.

Nobody got mad at me when I posted a recipe for 'possum

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

and Ew all at once.

 

[ksinger]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

My question is why we can't have just have ourselves a nice little self-righteous PS rant about how awful other people are - and they really are, aren't they?? - without having to attribute that awfulness predominantly to a subset of people - which of course is always one that WE can distance ourselves from either by geography, culture, money, or hey, I lived there but I was just slumming.

 

[elrohwen]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I've spent time in animal shelters in the northeast and almost all of the dogs come from the south. There just isn't a stray dog population up here, but there is a large one in the south and a never ending supply of cute beagles and hound dogs to be adopted by those up here. It's very sad. I think education is really the key, but I have no idea how to go about it.

I own rabbits which are typically treated worse than an average dog or cat - bought as an object, kept in a tiny cage, released into the wild when the owners get bored. I think the state of pets in the US is improving, but not quickly enough.

How are these dogs migrating from the South to Northeast??? How do you know all of the stray dogs in your area have travelled so far? Just curious .....

I think migrating swallows carry the smaller ones. I heard they can carry coconuts so I suppose a small dog isn't much of a stretch for them.

Would that be African swallows, or European?

 

[dragonfly411]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I've spent time in animal shelters in the northeast and almost all of the dogs come from the south. There just isn't a stray dog population up here, but there is a large one in the south and a never ending supply of cute beagles and hound dogs to be adopted by those up here. It's very sad. I think education is really the key, but I have no idea how to go about it.

I own rabbits which are typically treated worse than an average dog or cat - bought as an object, kept in a tiny cage, released into the wild when the owners get bored. I think the state of pets in the US is improving, but not quickly enough.

How are these dogs migrating from the South to Northeast??? How do you know all of the stray dogs in your area have travelled so far? Just curious .....

I think migrating swallows carry the smaller ones. I heard they can carry coconuts so I suppose a small dog isn't much of a stretch for them.

Would that be African swallows, or European?

I'd assume African b/c of the coconuts?

 

[MonkeyPie]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Thing - I do agree that a dog isn't going to be happiest if left completely 100% alone. I also do think it's important to have proper shelter. Not all dogs need or want human companionship though. A good example is my sister's dog she got not too long ago. If left to his own devices, he'd be THRILLED to live outside and on our back porch ALL THE TIME, and would probably wag his tail at us but otherwise not care too much if we're there. He loves to run, chase butterflies, play with the cat, and bark at the road. He doesn't much notice us, indoors or out, unless we have human food in our hands. It's just his nature.

My grandfather kept hunting dogs. They had kennels and large yard runs. They generally didn't even glance my way unless I was carrying food. They were just as happy in their yards, with their neighbors.

I think the point trying to be made is not that SOME dogs are just fine being left alone (there is always the exception to the rule), but that the MAJORITY of dogs want human attention. Anecdotes don't actually apply here - I could point out that the only dog I have ever had (when I was 5) also liked nothing better than to throw herself at cars passing by and get run over, so all dogs must enjoy this. See my point?

I think as a group we can agree with neglect is bad, it happens everywhere, but it tends to happen in certain areas more than others. Where I live I don't personally see a ton of neglect, but I also don't ever see the same levels of high care that PS dog-lovers give. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, of course.

 

[MonkeyPie]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

My question is why we can't have just have ourselves a nice little self-righteous PS rant about how awful other people are - and they really are, aren't they?? - without having to attribute that awfulness predominantly to a subset of people - which of course is always one that WE can distance ourselves from either by geography, culture, money, or hey, I lived there but I was just slumming.

Oh, but to dream.

 

[iheartscience]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Having a dog is a lot easier in the South. Generally property is cheaper and most people have a back yard. The weather is milder, so it seldom snows or even gets that cold. Someone could easily have a dog that requires minor upkeep in the South, whereas I think with the need for daily walks in the Northeast, more dear property, and cold weather, there is going to be a lot more work involved in owning an animal. In the Northeast, I doubt there are many outdoor-only pets, so people have to groom and bathe the pets to bring them into their homes. I'd say that there is just overall more effort in maintaining a pet outside of the South (or other places with similar profiles) and that the tendency towards inertia cannot be overstated. In the Northeast, you would need to *want* a pet to make such a daily commitment to its upkeep.

I think this thread has also varied between criticism of people who keep dogs in their backyards and rarely interact with them to people who truly neglect the pets and refuse medical care, chain them up continuously, or beat/starve them. There's a huge difference between these two things and although I don't think the first is ideal, I do not think it is unethical. I would say that this scenario is probably more common in the South because of the factors listed above and because the mentality is a little bit more like everyone is "on their own". As in, "I give the dog food and water, make sure it has shelter and room to run around safely, and an occasional bath, but the dog is on its own for interaction and level of cleanliness."

To be fair, I'm also not sure you could blame someone if they didn't seek all the best medical care for their animals if their other family members were uninsured or underinsured. With so many people losing their health insurance over the past 10 years, I think this could also be a contributing factor.

Keeping a dog in the backyard (usually by itself) and ignoring it IS truly neglect. Why get a dog if this is how you're going to treat it? It makes NO SENSE.

Thing2 - some animals are used for a purpose. They are not meant as pets. They were not bred to be pets. It is not in their genetics to act as pets. Hunting dogs do much better outside, in a yard, with plenty of room to move. They do not like being indoors. They don't like being in small spaces. They aren't apt to spend a lot of time cuddling either. How is that neglect? It's putting the animal into a situation that fits it's requirements. It's the same with any working dog. A border collie won't be at it's happiest in a house with no yard and only going for short walks. They are far too active for that type of lifestyle.

dragonfly, I am well aware that some animals are used for a purpose and are not bred as pets. As I've mentioned previously, I grew up in a rural area and I had and still have friends who live on working farms. But thank you anyway for the enlightening information.

Dogs are social animals and were domesticated thousands of years ago as companion animals as well as hunting and working dogs. They are not wild animals who want to be left alone so they can roam a tiny back yard by themselves. Every dog I've ever met or owned (including the 3 emaciated, sickly hunting dogs my family rescued from the redneck who lived through the woods) has absolutely loved being with people, indoors or outdoors.

You can't possibly believe that a dog chained up in a yard or even just left by itself in a fenced in yard is living in optimal conditions and is at its happiest. I agree that not all dogs need to be indoors, especially if they're working dogs. But being kept alone in a fenced yard or chained up isn't good for any dog, working, hunting or otherwise. No one in this thread is talking about a working dog being left alone to herd sheep on a farm.

Don't let your knee jerk defense of the South get in the way of basic facts.

Thing - I do agree that a dog isn't going to be happiest if left completely 100% alone. I also do think it's important to have proper shelter. Not all dogs need or want human companionship though. A good example is my sister's dog she got not too long ago. If left to his own devices, he'd be THRILLED to live outside and on our back porch ALL THE TIME, and would probably wag his tail at us but otherwise not care too much if we're there. He loves to run, chase butterflies, play with the cat, and bark at the road. He doesn't much notice us, indoors or out, unless we have human food in our hands. It's just his nature.

My grandfather kept hunting dogs. They had kennels and large yard runs. They generally didn't even glance my way unless I was carrying food. They were just as happy in their yards, with their neighbors.

editing to expand - I will say I don't think it's ok to just chain a dog up in a yard no. To me though, if a dog is in good health, well maintained, living in a yard, and appears relaxed and happy, then I don't see that as neglect. I've had many a yard dog and they were quite happy in the yard. My family has kept many hunting dogs, and they've all been happy and healthy. I don't see a problem with that. It gives them a home where they can act at their will, versus being on the streets possibly starving or being run over.

I don't think being locked in a kennel or stuck in a yard is allowing a dog to "act at their will", whatever that means. Do you really think a dog would rather be locked in a kennel vs. taken for walks and kept in a loving home environment? How big were these fantastic kennels at your grandfather's house? Most kennels and runs I've seen are small concrete slabs surrounded by a tall chain link fence so the dog can't climb or jump out.

The vast majority of the hunting dogs where I'm from aren't taken in as strays, so they're certainly not being saved from a life on the streets. They're bred either on purpose or by chance because their parents were never spayed or neutered by their neglectful owners.

And most of them ARE starving, so as to ensure they'll "work hard" when they go to run deer out of the woods for their lazy "hunter" owners. (And while the dogs are chasing deer out of the woods, the "hunters" wait in an open field with spotlights on their trucks. When the deer come, they turn the spotlights or headlights on so the deer freeze, and that way they can shoot them without any effort.)

It's a disgusting way to treat dogs and it's a disgusting way to hunt.

 

[MonkeyPie]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

And most of them ARE starving, so as to ensure they'll "work hard" when they go to run deer out of the woods for their lazy "hunter" owners. (And while the dogs are chasing deer out of the woods, the "hunters" wait in an open field with spotlights on their trucks. When the deer come, they turn the spotlights or headlights on so the deer freeze, and that way they can shoot them without any effort.)

It's a disgusting way to treat dogs and it's a disgusting way to hunt.

Ew...I didn't know that was how it worked. Here people actually stalk and hunt without the aid of dogs.

 

[iheartscience]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I've spent time in animal shelters in the northeast and almost all of the dogs come from the south. There just isn't a stray dog population up here, but there is a large one in the south and a never ending supply of cute beagles and hound dogs to be adopted by those up here. It's very sad. I think education is really the key, but I have no idea how to go about it.

I own rabbits which are typically treated worse than an average dog or cat - bought as an object, kept in a tiny cage, released into the wild when the owners get bored. I think the state of pets in the US is improving, but not quickly enough.

How are these dogs migrating from the South to Northeast??? How do you know all of the stray dogs in your area have travelled so far? Just curious .....

I think migrating swallows carry the smaller ones. I heard they can carry coconuts so I suppose a small dog isn't much of a stretch for them.

Would that be African swallows, or European?

But then of course African swallows are not migratory...

 

[Kaleigh]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

There are some in this thread, that have made some broad sweeping statements about the south. But you really can't take a portion of the country and say, well this is what happens most often.

I see abuse here.. The attitudes here can be very similar to those in the south. Many dogs are used for hunting, or hunts involving riders and their horses chasing the fox...


At the same time, in the carribean Dogs ( Antigua) I have seen dogs left to roam the streets or chained up with no water... That kills me. That is what I HAVE seen, so now I will get jumped for saying people in the Carribean could shive a git about dogs...

Not at all, just relating to what I have seen.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

My question is why we can't have just have ourselves a nice little self-righteous PS rant about how awful other people are - and they really are, aren't they?? - without having to attribute that awfulness predominantly to a subset of people - which of course is always one that WE can distance ourselves from either by geography, culture, money, or hey, I lived there but I was just slumming.

You know why? It's all the internet's and Microsoft's fault and they are to blame for our inability to properly communicate and avoid the inevitable bickering and misunderstandings that happen on nearly every forum on the web.

Plus, there's that Bill Gates guy. You know he feeds his neighborhood raccoons HIGH QUALITY cat food. Dude, what is the deal? Why doesn't he just yell at the d*mn things like everyone else does or throw a shoe at it and then listen the next morning as the spouse yells out, "where the heck is my shoe?"

 

[iheartscience]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

And most of them ARE starving, so as to ensure they'll "work hard" when they go to run deer out of the woods for their lazy "hunter" owners. (And while the dogs are chasing deer out of the woods, the "hunters" wait in an open field with spotlights on their trucks. When the deer come, they turn the spotlights or headlights on so the deer freeze, and that way they can shoot them without any effort.)

It's a disgusting way to treat dogs and it's a disgusting way to hunt.

Ew...I didn't know that was how it worked. Here people actually stalk and hunt without the aid of dogs.

Not all hunters do it, and not all people with hunting dogs do it. But the "hunters" who are likely to have starving, mistreated hunting dogs are exactly the type to also run dogs and spotlight deer.

 

[packrat]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I've spent time in animal shelters in the northeast and almost all of the dogs come from the south. There just isn't a stray dog population up here, but there is a large one in the south and a never ending supply of cute beagles and hound dogs to be adopted by those up here. It's very sad. I think education is really the key, but I have no idea how to go about it.

I own rabbits which are typically treated worse than an average dog or cat - bought as an object, kept in a tiny cage, released into the wild when the owners get bored. I think the state of pets in the US is improving, but not quickly enough.

How are these dogs migrating from the South to Northeast??? How do you know all of the stray dogs in your area have travelled so far? Just curious .....

I think migrating swallows carry the smaller ones. I heard they can carry coconuts so I suppose a small dog isn't much of a stretch for them.

Would that be African swallows, or European?

I'd assume African b/c of the coconuts?

Upon further research, I find that the African swallow does not in fact, migrate. This shoots my theory all to heck it appears.

 

[redfaerythinker]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

And most of them ARE starving, so as to ensure they'll "work hard" when they go to run deer out of the woods for their lazy "hunter" owners. (And while the dogs are chasing deer out of the woods, the "hunters" wait in an open field with spotlights on their trucks. When the deer come, they turn the spotlights or headlights on so the deer freeze, and that way they can shoot them without any effort.)

It's a disgusting way to treat dogs and it's a disgusting way to hunt.

I'm sorry, but this is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. Do you have a lot of experience deer hunting? As a licensed deer hunter I am appalled that you would write something so untrue. I don't know of a single state that is legal or in any way the norm to poach (spotlight). Spotlighters don't use dogs, EVER. It's counterproductive. Hunting is a quiet, still endeavor, and poaching, even more so. I would never try and do that with a dog. And I don't know what idiots you've been talking to, but hunting dogs, which are usually used in the south for birds, are not starving. Would you trust a starving animal to bring your duck back to you? Hunting dogs are usually the best treated of all of the rural dogs. They are expensive, highly trained, and a source of pride for their owners.

Now i'm not saying that there aren't hunters that starve their animals, but you are an intelligent person so you must realize how stupid these individuals are and that they are in NO WAY the norm.

 

[bee*]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Having a dog is a lot easier in the South. Generally property is cheaper and most people have a back yard. The weather is milder, so it seldom snows or even gets that cold. Someone could easily have a dog that requires minor upkeep in the South, whereas I think with the need for daily walks in the Northeast, more dear property, and cold weather, there is going to be a lot more work involved in owning an animal. In the Northeast, I doubt there are many outdoor-only pets, so people have to groom and bathe the pets to bring them into their homes. I'd say that there is just overall more effort in maintaining a pet outside of the South (or other places with similar profiles) and that the tendency towards inertia cannot be overstated. In the Northeast, you would need to *want* a pet to make such a daily commitment to its upkeep.

I think this thread has also varied between criticism of people who keep dogs in their backyards and rarely interact with them to people who truly neglect the pets and refuse medical care, chain them up continuously, or beat/starve them. There's a huge difference between these two things and although I don't think the first is ideal, I do not think it is unethical. I would say that this scenario is probably more common in the South because of the factors listed above and because the mentality is a little bit more like everyone is "on their own". As in, "I give the dog food and water, make sure it has shelter and room to run around safely, and an occasional bath, but the dog is on its own for interaction and level of cleanliness."

To be fair, I'm also not sure you could blame someone if they didn't seek all the best medical care for their animals if their other family members were uninsured or underinsured. With so many people losing their health insurance over the past 10 years, I think this could also be a contributing factor.

Keeping a dog in the backyard (usually by itself) and ignoring it IS truly neglect. Why get a dog if this is how you're going to treat it? It makes NO SENSE.

Thing2 - some animals are used for a purpose. They are not meant as pets. They were not bred to be pets. It is not in their genetics to act as pets. Hunting dogs do much better outside, in a yard, with plenty of room to move. They do not like being indoors. They don't like being in small spaces. They aren't apt to spend a lot of time cuddling either. How is that neglect? It's putting the animal into a situation that fits it's requirements. It's the same with any working dog. A border collie won't be at it's happiest in a house with no yard and only going for short walks. They are far too active for that type of lifestyle.

dragonfly, I am well aware that some animals are used for a purpose and are not bred as pets. As I've mentioned previously, I grew up in a rural area and I had and still have friends who live on working farms. But thank you anyway for the enlightening information.

Dogs are social animals and were domesticated thousands of years ago as companion animals as well as hunting and working dogs. They are not wild animals who want to be left alone so they can roam a tiny back yard by themselves. Every dog I've ever met or owned (including the 3 emaciated, sickly hunting dogs my family rescued from the redneck who lived through the woods) has absolutely loved being with people, indoors or outdoors.

You can't possibly believe that a dog chained up in a yard or even just left by itself in a fenced in yard is living in optimal conditions and is at its happiest. I agree that not all dogs need to be indoors, especially if they're working dogs. But being kept alone in a fenced yard or chained up isn't good for any dog, working, hunting or otherwise. No one in this thread is talking about a working dog being left alone to herd sheep on a farm.

Don't let your knee jerk defense of the South get in the way of basic facts.

Thing - I do agree that a dog isn't going to be happiest if left completely 100% alone. I also do think it's important to have proper shelter. Not all dogs need or want human companionship though. A good example is my sister's dog she got not too long ago. If left to his own devices, he'd be THRILLED to live outside and on our back porch ALL THE TIME, and would probably wag his tail at us but otherwise not care too much if we're there. He loves to run, chase butterflies, play with the cat, and bark at the road. He doesn't much notice us, indoors or out, unless we have human food in our hands. It's just his nature.

My grandfather kept hunting dogs. They had kennels and large yard runs. They generally didn't even glance my way unless I was carrying food. They were just as happy in their yards, with their neighbors.

editing to expand - I will say I don't think it's ok to just chain a dog up in a yard no. To me though, if a dog is in good health, well maintained, living in a yard, and appears relaxed and happy, then I don't see that as neglect. I've had many a yard dog and they were quite happy in the yard. My family has kept many hunting dogs, and they've all been happy and healthy. I don't see a problem with that. It gives them a home where they can act at their will, versus being on the streets possibly starving or being run over.

I don't think being locked in a kennel or stuck in a yard is allowing a dog to "act at their will", whatever that means. Do you really think a dog would rather be locked in a kennel vs. taken for walks and kept in a loving home environment? How big were these fantastic kennels at your grandfather's house? Most kennels and runs I've seen are small concrete slabs surrounded by a tall chain link fence so the dog can't climb or jump out.

The vast majority of the hunting dogs where I'm from aren't taken in as strays, so they're certainly not being saved from a life on the streets. They're bred either on purpose or by chance because their parents were never spayed or neutered by their neglectful owners.

And most of them ARE starving, so as to ensure they'll "work hard" when they go to run deer out of the woods for their lazy "hunter" owners. (And while the dogs are chasing deer out of the woods, the "hunters" wait in an open field with spotlights on their trucks. When the deer come, they turn the spotlights or headlights on so the deer freeze, and that way they can shoot them without any effort.)

It's a disgusting way to treat dogs and it's a disgusting way to hunt.

I've worked a 14 hour day today so can I just say how grateful I am to have read thing's response as that is exactly how I feel. There are rare cases of dogs that prefer to be solitary however the majority of dogs like and crave company. I don't know many dogs that would prefer to be by themselves, than out for a walk with their owner. As mentioned earlier dragonfly, a border collie mightn't be happy in a home with 2 walks, but it's not going to be happy by itself chained up either. Although part of an animals nature can be due to genetics, how they're reared is also a huge factor.

 

[PinkTower]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Thing 2 of 2,
I grew up in the south with hunting dogs, and most of our neighbors had them also. I've never heard of an underfed hunting dog. We had coon dogs-blue ticks, treeing walkers, redbones, and beagles. I now own two retrievers. What breed of hunting dog is starved before hunting? I'm not saying there isn't such a type of hunting, I've just never encountered it or heard of such a thing with either coon dogs or retrievers.