Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. South?

[Bleed Burnt Orange]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Question, is leaving a dog inside, with sufficient clean water, after being walked and fed, while at work for SEVERAL hours, ideal animal care? If not, what do people up north do with their pets when they're not at home? What if a dog "in the South" has been walked and fed, does have clean water, but is left outside during the day to run around instead of being cooped up in a house all day? What about that? I'm not saying the North is better or worse than the South. I'm just saying/asking.

Why is it that we can leave a dog at home alone for a while but not a baby? I think it's because a dog/animal is NOT THE SAME as a human!

ETA: I'm sure many don't see the small and big dogs stuck in apartments, homes with no yards, all day! How long are their walks to justify owning a dog in that environment? I don't think there's much pleasing anyone. Some animals are TRULY mistreated, but...Animal Cops exist EVERHWERE!

 

[ksinger]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

My question is why we can't have just have ourselves a nice little self-righteous PS rant about how awful other people are - and they really are, aren't they?? - without having to attribute that awfulness predominantly to a subset of people - which of course is always one that WE can distance ourselves from either by geography, culture, money, or hey, I lived there but I was just slumming.

You know why? It's all the internet's and Microsoft's fault and they are to blame for our inability to properly communicate and avoid the inevitable bickering and misunderstandings that happen on nearly every forum on the web.

Plus, there's that Bill Gates guy. You know he feeds his neighborhood raccoons HIGH QUALITY cat food. Dude, what is the deal? Why doesn't he just yell at the d*mn things like everyone else does or throw a shoe at it and then listen the next morning as the spouse yells out, "where the heck is my shoe?"

LOL! Bill Gates. HE'S the REAL problem!

 

[iugurl]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Question, is leaving a dog inside, with sufficient clean water, after being walked and fed, while at work for SEVERAL hours, ideal animal care? If not, what do people up north do with their pets when they're not at home? What if a dog "in the South" has been walked and fed, does have clean water, but is left outside during the day to run around instead of being cooped up in a house all day?

Good question! I also would like to know the answer... What is the difference of being left outdoors vs. left indoors while people are at work. Assuming you don't live somewhere that is freezing cold or burning hot outside.

 

[iheartscience]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

And most of them ARE starving, so as to ensure they'll "work hard" when they go to run deer out of the woods for their lazy "hunter" owners. (And while the dogs are chasing deer out of the woods, the "hunters" wait in an open field with spotlights on their trucks. When the deer come, they turn the spotlights or headlights on so the deer freeze, and that way they can shoot them without any effort.)

It's a disgusting way to treat dogs and it's a disgusting way to hunt.

I'm sorry, but this is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. Do you have a lot of experience deer hunting? As a licensed deer hunter I am appalled that you would write something so untrue. I don't know of a single state that is legal or in any way the norm to poach (spotlight). Spotlighters don't use dogs, EVER. It's counterproductive. Hunting is a quiet, still endeavor, and poaching, even more so. I would never try and do that with a dog. And I don't know what idiots you've been talking to, but hunting dogs, which are usually used in the south for birds, are not starving. Would you trust a starving animal to bring your duck back to you? Hunting dogs are usually the best treated of all of the rural dogs. They are expensive, highly trained, and a source of pride for their owners.

Now i'm not saying that there aren't hunters that starve their animals, but you are an intelligent person so you must realize how stupid these individuals are and that they are in NO WAY the norm.

I don't hunt (I don't have the stomach for it) but my father does and he's hunted his entire life. He belongs to several hunting clubs, puts up tree stands every year, etc. He goes bow hunting, black powder rifle hunting, etc. I've been around it my whole life and have been along quail hunting, although I didn't shoot them myself.

That's great that you're a licensed deer hunter and you don't hunt that way, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. This thread isn't about people who treat their animals well, it's about people who don't. I don't doubt that some hunters treat their dogs well. Some of my dad's friends have bird dogs and they are highly trained and usually treated well, although a lot of them are kept in kennels, which I don't agree with.

The hunters I'm talking about don't treat their animals well, though. I've seen it first hand (via the starving fox hound/beagle mixes we took in) and so has my father, via the people he's encountered countless times hunting and elsewhere. I could write about things he's come across that would make everyone sick. He left one hunting club because they allowed members to run dogs. He disagrees with it because he thinks it's not sporting and he doesn't like how these hunters treat their dogs. And my father isn't the type of animal lover who thinks dogs should be treated like children, either.

ETA just because something is illegal doesn't mean it doesn't happen, particularly in very rural areas.

 

[VapidLapid]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I dont know how hunting dogs got folded into the group of abused animals in this discussions. I would imagine that hunting dogs are trained and socialized even if they dont sleep in a bed with their masters on 600 tpi sheets. Dogs are intellectual animals like people. But also like people that has to be developed. Chain a kid to a pole in the yard and give it water and some food for 12 years and you're not gonna have a smart kid who interacts well with others. My dog knows the difference between feathers and down, and can order off the menu in french. He can shop, he knows the location of every coffeeshop he's ever had a scone at and tells me clearly when Im going in the wrong direction, but he cant hunt. still I think he's pretty smart. I dont think of hunting dogs as abused, nor do I think of hunting or hunting dogs as being southern. Plenty of northerners hunt. Sadly, dogs are abused everywhere.

 

[VapidLapid]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

And most of them ARE starving, so as to ensure they'll "work hard" when they go to run deer out of the woods for their lazy "hunter" owners. (And while the dogs are chasing deer out of the woods, the "hunters" wait in an open field with spotlights on their trucks. When the deer come, they turn the spotlights or headlights on so the deer freeze, and that way they can shoot them without any effort.)

It's a disgusting way to treat dogs and it's a disgusting way to hunt.

I'm sorry, but this is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. Do you have a lot of experience deer hunting? As a licensed deer hunter I am appalled that you would write something so untrue. I don't know of a single state that is legal or in any way the norm to poach (spotlight). Spotlighters don't use dogs, EVER. It's counterproductive. Hunting is a quiet, still endeavor, and poaching, even more so. I would never try and do that with a dog. And I don't know what idiots you've been talking to, but hunting dogs, which are usually used in the south for birds, are not starving. Would you trust a starving animal to bring your duck back to you? Hunting dogs are usually the best treated of all of the rural dogs. They are expensive, highly trained, and a source of pride for their owners.

Now i'm not saying that there aren't hunters that starve their animals, but you are an intelligent person so you must realize how stupid these individuals are and that they are in NO WAY the norm.

I don't hunt (I don't have the stomach for it) but my father does and he's hunted his entire life. He belongs to several hunting clubs, puts up tree stands every year, etc. He goes bow hunting, black powder rifle hunting, etc. I've been around it my whole life and have been along quail hunting, although I didn't shoot them myself.

That's great that you're a licensed deer hunter and you don't hunt that way, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. This thread isn't about people who treat their animals well, it's about people who don't. I don't doubt that some hunters treat their dogs well. Some of my dad's friends have bird dogs and they are highly trained and usually treated well, although a lot of them are kept in kennels, which I don't agree with.

The hunters I'm talking about don't treat their animals well, though. I've seen it first hand (via the starving fox hound/beagle mixes we took in) and so has my father, via the people he's encountered countless times hunting and elsewhere. I could write about things he's come across that would make everyone sick. He left one hunting club because they allowed members to run dogs. He disagrees with it because he thinks it's not sporting and he doesn't like how these hunters treat their dogs. And my father isn't the type of animal lover who thinks dogs should be treated like children, either.

ETA just because something is illegal doesn't mean it doesn't happen, particularly in very rural areas.

And particularly Wall Street, Main St, and DC

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Question, is leaving a dog inside, with sufficient clean water, after being walked and fed, while at work for SEVERAL hours, ideal animal care? If not, what do people up north do with their pets when they're not at home? What if a dog "in the South" has been walked and fed, does have clean water, but is left outside during the day to run around instead of being cooped up in a house all day?

Good question! I also would like to know the answer... What is the difference of being left outdoors vs. left indoors while people are at work. Assuming you don't live somewhere that is freezing cold or burning hot outside.

The danger with leaving a dog outside unattended is that the dog can be stolen from your yard.

Dog walkers/dog playgroups/doggy daycare are all safe alternatives for making sure your dogs are properly exercised during the day while the owner is at work.

 

[iheartscience]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

And most of them ARE starving, so as to ensure they'll "work hard" when they go to run deer out of the woods for their lazy "hunter" owners. (And while the dogs are chasing deer out of the woods, the "hunters" wait in an open field with spotlights on their trucks. When the deer come, they turn the spotlights or headlights on so the deer freeze, and that way they can shoot them without any effort.)

It's a disgusting way to treat dogs and it's a disgusting way to hunt.

I'm sorry, but this is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. Do you have a lot of experience deer hunting? As a licensed deer hunter I am appalled that you would write something so untrue. I don't know of a single state that is legal or in any way the norm to poach (spotlight). Spotlighters don't use dogs, EVER. It's counterproductive. Hunting is a quiet, still endeavor, and poaching, even more so. I would never try and do that with a dog. And I don't know what idiots you've been talking to, but hunting dogs, which are usually used in the south for birds, are not starving. Would you trust a starving animal to bring your duck back to you? Hunting dogs are usually the best treated of all of the rural dogs. They are expensive, highly trained, and a source of pride for their owners.

Now i'm not saying that there aren't hunters that starve their animals, but you are an intelligent person so you must realize how stupid these individuals are and that they are in NO WAY the norm.

I don't hunt (I don't have the stomach for it) but my father does and he's hunted his entire life. He belongs to several hunting clubs, puts up tree stands every year, etc. He goes bow hunting, black powder rifle hunting, etc. I've been around it my whole life and have been along quail hunting, although I didn't shoot them myself.

That's great that you're a licensed deer hunter and you don't hunt that way, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. This thread isn't about people who treat their animals well, it's about people who don't. I don't doubt that some hunters treat their dogs well. Some of my dad's friends have bird dogs and they are highly trained and usually treated well, although a lot of them are kept in kennels, which I don't agree with.

The hunters I'm talking about don't treat their animals well, though. I've seen it first hand (via the starving fox hound/beagle mixes we took in) and so has my father, via the people he's encountered countless times hunting and elsewhere. I could write about things he's come across that would make everyone sick. He left one hunting club because they allowed members to run dogs. He disagrees with it because he thinks it's not sporting and he doesn't like how these hunters treat their dogs. And my father isn't the type of animal lover who thinks dogs should be treated like children, either.

ETA just because something is illegal doesn't mean it doesn't happen, particularly in very rural areas.

And particularly Wall Street, Main St, and DC

Obviously, but I'm talking about hunting illegally. I don't think most of Wall St. hunts deer illegally, but they do a lot of other illegal stuff, so who knows!

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

The North East gets hounds and beagals from the South and Chihuahua and other little dogs from Southern California. There are groups devoted to relocating animals from one part of the country, where they are over crowded, to other parts of the country where they are in demand. Strange, but true.

People have gotten creative and smart in their bid to find homes for stray pets.

I personally haven't been to the South for any appreciable time period, so I can't comment on what others are observing. But I did want to chime in and let you know that it's a problem in many areas, people get animals and don't see them as family members, but as objects. I am glad that there are enlightened people like T-gal who realize they are not cut out to be pet owners. It saves a lot of heartbreak.

As someone who spoils her pets, I know that it's not for everyone. As someone who who rescues animals, I know that just because you get a pet in the door of someone's house, doesn't mean it should be there. Unfortunatley, as with having kids, you don't have to have any kind of screening to have a pet. That's why good rescues and shelters are gold. Jewel Freak, my best advice to you is to find a good shelter or rescue and start donating time/money/whatever to them. That's the right way to make a difference. And it will give you a place where you can feel like there is positive change happening, slow though it may be.

((HUGS))

 

[somethingshiny]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Um, the hunting this is a bit out of control.

Some dogs don't get breakfast the morning they go for a hunt. They hunt better on an empty stomach, run faster and generally don't have to take a giant dump that alerts the prey. Deer are not hunted using dogs. Coons are frequently hunted with the aide of a canine. The dog trees the coon, bellows, and the hunter comes to take his shot. You can push deer (or spotlight) into an open area where hunter friends are waiting to take the shot. This isn't disgusting. This is ensuring a kill to feed your family.

Hunting IS necessary. Do you realize what would happen if the number of deer wasn't reduced?? Do you know what would happen to the crops that we all depend on for food, fuel, clothes?? Do you know how many people get severely injured and killed in accidents involving deer?? There are so many benefits to hunting FOR the species being hunted as well. It ensures healthier blood lines (the slow, weak, etc or more likely to get picked off). Mange, rabies, distemper are all increased substantially when the animal population is too crowded as well. Do you know what happens then?? ALL YOUR PRECIOUS PUPPIES GET THESE DISEASES AND ARE PUT IN THE BACKYARD TO DIE!


eta~ I grew up in a town of 250. Rural as it gets. We marry our brothers and have false teeth by the age of 16. Well, the girls get false teeth, the guys just fill them holes up with chew. We beat our kids and our dogs and leave washing machines on the porch with the dog. That "clean" smell bothers ma allergies.

 

[JewelFreak]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

That's why no matter how much my kid begs me, I will never, ever buy her a dog or a cat. Because if I were an animal, there's no way I'd want an owner like me who thinks it's just an animal. I mean, I think they're cute...but just like that hot guy at a bar, "cute" is not a good enough reason to start a relationship! There are SO many better owners out there for a pet. For better or worse, I'm not one of them.

Gold stars & halo for you, TG & Choro72! There is NOTHING wrong with not wanting an animal -- what is wrong is getting it anyway. You are aces.

I don't go for pets' being turned into 4-footed people, myself. Let them be what they are, but take the responsibility to give them what they need, physically and emotionally -- yes, they do have emotional needs such as company for dogs, which are social animals genetically programmed to live in packs. So are humans. We admire hermits because aloneness is so very painful; isolation is used as torture in prisons -- over long periods it will drive a person insane. Why would we subject any natural group-living animal to the same thing?

I know many many people who keep dogs in kennels -- it's not automatically awful. But it IS time-consuming. Dogs need society -- in kennels they have other dogs & good owners also spend lots of time with them so they become socialized & bonded to people. They make sure they get plenty of exercise -- and of course, do often whatever they are bred or used for. A true working dog doing the job it was made to do, knowing it's loved & cared for even if it doesn't live inside leads at least as satisfying a life as one lying on the couch all day waiting for mom to come home. Neither is suffering, at any rate. The point is, they do not spend day after day alone, bored, confined to a back yard in all weathers. Dogs are not robots -- they know what's missing and say so in the ways they can: barking, digging, escaping. A child once it can talk, can tell someone if it's mistreated; a dog gets smacked for making noise.

As usual on the internet things get way overdone -- nobody says the South is the only place animals are mistreated. Nor that nobody in the South is good to theirs. I merely said I've seen much more of it here than anywhere else I've lived, and the laws governing domestic animal care are very poor so reporting it is useless. Why do we have to make everything extreme, eh?

Thanks, all you lovely dog lovers for your sympathy. And you non-dog-lovers who are sensible. I always thought one got a thicker skin getting older, but mine hasn't kept pace; this stuff hurts more, the more of it I see. I did work w/shelters and drove transports for years, kind of burned out on it. Somehow I need to think up a way to start educating people -- ideas??

--- Laurie

 

[kenny]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I absolutely LOVE dog, especially marinated in soy sauce, olive oil, lime and a hint of garlic.

Well, that's one way to hush puppies.

 

[MonkeyPie]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

eta~ I grew up in a town of 250. Rural as it gets. We marry our brothers and have false teeth by the age of 16. Well, the girls get false teeth, the guys just fill them holes up with chew. We beat our kids and our dogs and leave washing machines on the porch with the dog. That "clean" smell bothers ma allergies.

LOL. That gave me a giggle.

I'm only guessing here but I'm thinking that was sarcasm? Since no one said anything even CLOSE to any of that stuff, you're really taking this whole thread too personally. No one is attacking anybody here.

 

[iheartscience]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Um, the hunting this is a bit out of control.

Some dogs don't get breakfast the morning they go for a hunt. They hunt better on an empty stomach, run faster and generally don't have to take a giant dump that alerts the prey. Deer are not hunted using dogs. Coons are frequently hunted with the aide of a canine. The dog trees the coon, bellows, and the hunter comes to take his shot. You can push deer (or spotlight) into an open area where hunter friends are waiting to take the shot. This isn't disgusting. This is ensuring a kill to feed your family.

Hunting IS necessary. Do you realize what would happen if the number of deer wasn't reduced?? Do you know what would happen to the crops that we all depend on for food, fuel, clothes?? Do you know how many people get severely injured and killed in accidents involving deer?? There are so many benefits to hunting FOR the species being hunted as well. It ensures healthier blood lines (the slow, weak, etc or more likely to get picked off). Mange, rabies, distemper are all increased substantially when the animal population is too crowded as well. Do you know what happens then?? ALL YOUR PRECIOUS PUPPIES GET THESE DISEASES AND ARE PUT IN THE BACKYARD TO DIE!

eta~ I grew up in a town of 250. Rural as it gets. We marry our brothers and have false teeth by the age of 16. Well, the girls get false teeth, the guys just fill them holes up with chew. We beat our kids and our dogs and leave washing machines on the porch with the dog. That "clean" smell bothers ma allergies.

I just called up my dad to confirm and he said hunters in his area do indeed use dogs to run deer out of the woods. He got into it with people several times because they were running dogs through the lots next to his property to get the deer to a non-residential area so their buddies could shoot them. He said that it was just "the rednecks" who do this, and that none of his friends or the members of his hunting clubs do this. And he also confirmed that this type of hunter doesn't take care of the dogs, they're often starving, and they always have too many of them locked up in kennels. My father thinks using dogs to run deer into an open area is an unsportsmanlike way to hunt, and I agree. It's like the infamous shooting wolves from a helicopter in Alaska. I mean come on.

Spotlighting to hunt deer is illegal in most states and I do think it's a disgusting way to hunt. And again, so does my father, who is a lifelong hunter. He did say that there's been a major crackdown on it and that fish and game officials have taken to putting dummies in open fields and waiting nearby to bust anyone who spotlights the field and has a gun in their car.

I said earlier and I'll say it again: I have nothing against hunting. I agree that in many areas the deer population is out of control. I've eaten pretty much any game you can name, most of which was killed by my father. I don't think meat eaters can really complain about hunting, provided the animals being hunted aren't endangered in any way, and that they're being hunted in a sportsmanlike way.

But again, this thread isn't about hunting-it's about the mistreatment of dogs. Some people who use dogs to hunt mistreat their dogs. Not saying they all do, but the trashier ones in the area I grew up in sure did.

 

[Matata]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

In this thread, some of you have referred to people as "trash" which is the way some of "those people" feel about their dogs. Six degrees of separation.

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Oooookay, I hesitated before deciding to post. Clearly, I'm an animal lover (for anyone who has seen me post on my cats, on my mom's dog, seen my pics, etc.). I also volunteer for an animal rescue in my hometown right now; I do legal volunteer stuff, actual animal rescue volunteer stuff, and I'm on the board. I live in a big hunting state (but not the south). So a few points:

1) Kudos to those who choose not to have pets because they don't feel they would/could/would want to put in the time and effort involved. I think that's extremely responsible, so thank you.

2) Dragonfly and a few others (sorry to pick on you DF, but your post is what stuck in my mind) - anecdotal evidence is great, but anecdotal evidence does not imply truth. Logical fallacy.

3) Stereotypes suck, but it's not a personal judgment on the south, and many stereotypes derive from a grain of truth.

4) There are definitely dogs that are bred for a purpose (show, hunt, sledding, etc.). However, responsible breeders/owners of such dogs, though they may not treat the dog as a member of the family, still realize the value of their commodity and many act to take appropriate care of that commodity. That is a far cry from those who abuse/neglect their dogs. For these people, I doubt the dogs are seen as a commodity; smart people treat their commodities well. They probably see them as things with little value aside from the value of mere possession. Those people, I think many of us would agree, are pretty reprehensible and are losers. Maybe there are hunters who fall in this category, but this seems to be a case of "some hunters may be animal neglecters, but not all animal neglecters are hunters." Like I said, I live in a huge hunting state. If you go look up retriever breeders here, there are way more breeders who aim to produce good bird dogs/hunting dogs than show dogs. I would probably say 1 out of 2 friends/acquaintances in this town either hunt, or have a close family member/spouse who hunts. And these people treat their dogs very well. Some aren't completely insane about their dogs as my family is (dogs are still animals) but still, the dogs are exercised, stimulated, fed well, sheltered, etc. Again, I realize this is anecdotal, but the point I'm trying to make is that like with all things, there will be good and bad seeds and that includes hunting.

5) Like Princesss, I've lived all over and in different regions of the country. I've lived in Korea, Montana, Japan, Spain, Texas, Hawaii, Florida, Arizona, NYC, Chicago and Boston. I admittedly did not pay attention to what the conditions of animals were like in each of those places, but like others have said, there are great pet owners everywhere, and there are bad pet owners everywhere. But I don't think it's being unfair to a certain location to say that certain places have a greater ratio of bad to good than others. Does the South fit that bill? No idea (from personal experience). But I'd be willing to bet there are DEFINITELY places that have more bad owners proportionately than others. Does that make that region bad? No, not in absolute terms, but relatively? Maybe.

Finally, 6) Jewel Freak and all the other animal lovers/rescuers - thank you for taking the time and effort and caring to do what you have done. The world is a much better place because of people like you.

 

[doodle]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I live in Georgia but do a good bit of traveling, and I can honestly say I SEE it a lot more in Georgia, but a good bit of that is simply that the weather is conducive to leaving your neglected pet outdoors and in plain sight rather than inside a home where only the owner knows the animal is being mistreated. To me, it's just as bad to keep a dog inside 24/7 without exercise and to grossly overfeed it, but I've known people who have done that as well (note to a guy I know--if your chihuahua weighs over 15 pounds, for the love of Blahnik, WALK the meatwad and DON'T feed her freaking SPAGHETTI!) As far as the shipping of dogs goes, I find this interesting because my town has a no-kill shelter, and I guarantee you I can walk in the front door right now and point out which dogs were rescued in the South and which were shipped from up north with about 90% accuracy. The policy of trading breeds around among shelters to raise the likelihood of adoption is brilliant--if it weren't for that, you'd almost never see a poodle or a pekingese here, but our shelter is overrun with bull mixes, hunting dogs, retrievers, and the like. I also see wild pack dogs here all the time (and I'm not saying they don't exist elsewhere because I'm certain they do, but I personally have never seen a pack of feral dogs anywhere else). Unfortunately, our shelters are overrun with dogs that fall into this category, and most of them just can't be adopted out.

 

[Ara Ann]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I've been reading this for a while and agree, it is a difficult subject...and abuse and animal neglect happens everywhere...it just may be more visible in some areas and cultures than in others.

My DH and I were talking with our friend this last Sunday...she and her family recently rescued a Doberman who had been left outside (Northern winters anyone?) and was literally FROZEN TO THE GROUND when a neighbor finally called animal control. When the animal control officers got there, he was still stuck to the ice/ground and could not get up. Happy to share he is doing great now, is being spoiled rotten and even sleeps in bed with his new family...and is very sweet and docile. But obviously someone wanted the presence of a guard dog, left outside, as a deterrent, but didn't seem to care if the dog froze to death. Sickening.

There are also packs of feral dogs running the streets in Detroit...Animal Planet (or someone like that) was there not long ago, filming the dogs for an upcoming documentary...I really think there can be feral dog packs about anywhere.

We have a rescue Chihuahua - he's a great little dog....I often wonder why his first owners gave him up. BUT, I have heard that certain people do treat their pets as 'decorative objects' - for instance, with Chihuahuas, people love the 'tinyness' of the breed (ala Paris Hilton's tea cup size Chi's), so if a dog happens to get 'too big' - the owners give them up....ugh. I have heard of people getting rid of their pets after redecorating their house because they didn't match the new furniture...ugh again.

Some people should not be pet owners, I agree...(some people shouldn't have kids either, but that's another topic)...

 

[dragonfly411]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Having a dog is a lot easier in the South. Generally property is cheaper and most people have a back yard. The weather is milder, so it seldom snows or even gets that cold. Someone could easily have a dog that requires minor upkeep in the South, whereas I think with the need for daily walks in the Northeast, more dear property, and cold weather, there is going to be a lot more work involved in owning an animal. In the Northeast, I doubt there are many outdoor-only pets, so people have to groom and bathe the pets to bring them into their homes. I'd say that there is just overall more effort in maintaining a pet outside of the South (or other places with similar profiles) and that the tendency towards inertia cannot be overstated. In the Northeast, you would need to *want* a pet to make such a daily commitment to its upkeep.

I think this thread has also varied between criticism of people who keep dogs in their backyards and rarely interact with them to people who truly neglect the pets and refuse medical care, chain them up continuously, or beat/starve them. There's a huge difference between these two things and although I don't think the first is ideal, I do not think it is unethical. I would say that this scenario is probably more common in the South because of the factors listed above and because the mentality is a little bit more like everyone is "on their own". As in, "I give the dog food and water, make sure it has shelter and room to run around safely, and an occasional bath, but the dog is on its own for interaction and level of cleanliness."

To be fair, I'm also not sure you could blame someone if they didn't seek all the best medical care for their animals if their other family members were uninsured or underinsured. With so many people losing their health insurance over the past 10 years, I think this could also be a contributing factor.

Keeping a dog in the backyard (usually by itself) and ignoring it IS truly neglect. Why get a dog if this is how you're going to treat it? It makes NO SENSE.

Thing2 - some animals are used for a purpose. They are not meant as pets. They were not bred to be pets. It is not in their genetics to act as pets. Hunting dogs do much better outside, in a yard, with plenty of room to move. They do not like being indoors. They don't like being in small spaces. They aren't apt to spend a lot of time cuddling either. How is that neglect? It's putting the animal into a situation that fits it's requirements. It's the same with any working dog. A border collie won't be at it's happiest in a house with no yard and only going for short walks. They are far too active for that type of lifestyle.

dragonfly, I am well aware that some animals are used for a purpose and are not bred as pets. As I've mentioned previously, I grew up in a rural area and I had and still have friends who live on working farms. But thank you anyway for the enlightening information.

Dogs are social animals and were domesticated thousands of years ago as companion animals as well as hunting and working dogs. They are not wild animals who want to be left alone so they can roam a tiny back yard by themselves. Every dog I've ever met or owned (including the 3 emaciated, sickly hunting dogs my family rescued from the redneck who lived through the woods) has absolutely loved being with people, indoors or outdoors.

You can't possibly believe that a dog chained up in a yard or even just left by itself in a fenced in yard is living in optimal conditions and is at its happiest. I agree that not all dogs need to be indoors, especially if they're working dogs. But being kept alone in a fenced yard or chained up isn't good for any dog, working, hunting or otherwise. No one in this thread is talking about a working dog being left alone to herd sheep on a farm.

Don't let your knee jerk defense of the South get in the way of basic facts.

Thing - I do agree that a dog isn't going to be happiest if left completely 100% alone. I also do think it's important to have proper shelter. Not all dogs need or want human companionship though. A good example is my sister's dog she got not too long ago. If left to his own devices, he'd be THRILLED to live outside and on our back porch ALL THE TIME, and would probably wag his tail at us but otherwise not care too much if we're there. He loves to run, chase butterflies, play with the cat, and bark at the road. He doesn't much notice us, indoors or out, unless we have human food in our hands. It's just his nature.

My grandfather kept hunting dogs. They had kennels and large yard runs. They generally didn't even glance my way unless I was carrying food. They were just as happy in their yards, with their neighbors.

editing to expand - I will say I don't think it's ok to just chain a dog up in a yard no. To me though, if a dog is in good health, well maintained, living in a yard, and appears relaxed and happy, then I don't see that as neglect. I've had many a yard dog and they were quite happy in the yard. My family has kept many hunting dogs, and they've all been happy and healthy. I don't see a problem with that. It gives them a home where they can act at their will, versus being on the streets possibly starving or being run over.

I don't think being locked in a kennel or stuck in a yard is allowing a dog to "act at their will", whatever that means. Do you really think a dog would rather be locked in a kennel vs. taken for walks and kept in a loving home environment? How big were these fantastic kennels at your grandfather's house? Most kennels and runs I've seen are small concrete slabs surrounded by a tall chain link fence so the dog can't climb or jump out.

The vast majority of the hunting dogs where I'm from aren't taken in as strays, so they're certainly not being saved from a life on the streets. They're bred either on purpose or by chance because their parents were never spayed or neutered by their neglectful owners.

And most of them ARE starving, so as to ensure they'll "work hard" when they go to run deer out of the woods for their lazy "hunter" owners. (And while the dogs are chasing deer out of the woods, the "hunters" wait in an open field with spotlights on their trucks. When the deer come, they turn the spotlights or headlights on so the deer freeze, and that way they can shoot them without any effort.)

It's a disgusting way to treat dogs and it's a disgusting way to hunt.

Thing - I don't think I can change your mind. I will say that you're wrong on this though. The vast majority of hunters treat their dogs well, make sure they have their needs taken care of, and make sure they're happy. They also call out those who don't properly maintain their dogs. But I've gathered over time that you have developed very strong opinions about people from where I am from and I am not going to continue to try to make you see the light on it.

For the record, our dogs had large indoor kennels, with outdoor yard runs. The facility took up close to an acre with each run housing two dogs at the most. But I guess my family and I are disgusting.

 

[dragonfly411]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Um, the hunting this is a bit out of control.

Some dogs don't get breakfast the morning they go for a hunt. They hunt better on an empty stomach, run faster and generally don't have to take a giant dump that alerts the prey. Deer are not hunted using dogs. Coons are frequently hunted with the aide of a canine. The dog trees the coon, bellows, and the hunter comes to take his shot. You can push deer (or spotlight) into an open area where hunter friends are waiting to take the shot. This isn't disgusting. This is ensuring a kill to feed your family.

Hunting IS necessary. Do you realize what would happen if the number of deer wasn't reduced?? Do you know what would happen to the crops that we all depend on for food, fuel, clothes?? Do you know how many people get severely injured and killed in accidents involving deer?? There are so many benefits to hunting FOR the species being hunted as well. It ensures healthier blood lines (the slow, weak, etc or more likely to get picked off). Mange, rabies, distemper are all increased substantially when the animal population is too crowded as well. Do you know what happens then?? ALL YOUR PRECIOUS PUPPIES GET THESE DISEASES AND ARE PUT IN THE BACKYARD TO DIE!

eta~ I grew up in a town of 250. Rural as it gets. We marry our brothers and have false teeth by the age of 16. Well, the girls get false teeth, the guys just fill them holes up with chew. We beat our kids and our dogs and leave washing machines on the porch with the dog. That "clean" smell bothers ma allergies.

I just called up my dad to confirm and he said hunters in his area do indeed use dogs to run deer out of the woods. He got into it with people several times because they were running dogs through the lots next to his property to get the deer to a non-residential area so their buddies could shoot them. He said that it was just "the rednecks" who do this, and that none of his friends or the members of his hunting clubs do this. And he also confirmed that this type of hunter doesn't take care of the dogs, they're often starving, and they always have too many of them locked up in kennels. My father thinks using dogs to run deer into an open area is an unsportsmanlike way to hunt, and I agree. It's like the infamous shooting wolves from a helicopter in Alaska. I mean come on.

Spotlighting to hunt deer is illegal in most states and I do think it's a disgusting way to hunt. And again, so does my father, who is a lifelong hunter. He did say that there's been a major crackdown on it and that fish and game officials have taken to putting dummies in open fields and waiting nearby to bust anyone who spotlights the field and has a gun in their car.

I said earlier and I'll say it again: I have nothing against hunting. I agree that in many areas the deer population is out of control. I've eaten pretty much any game you can name, most of which was killed by my father. I don't think meat eaters can really complain about hunting, provided the animals being hunted aren't endangered in any way, and that they're being hunted in a sportsmanlike way.

But again, this thread isn't about hunting-it's about the mistreatment of dogs. Some people who use dogs to hunt mistreat their dogs. Not saying they all do, but the trashier ones in the area I grew up in sure did.

In some places, running dogs to hunt deer is perfectly legal. It is done here. It is illegal to spotlight and no one here does that (or if they do, they'll eventually get caught). Running dogs allows hunters to flush out deer that otherwise might not walk. This includes young bucks who will never mature to be a good breeding animal. They'll always be smaller with small horns. So long as the dogs are in a controlled area there's nothing wrong with it. It's the same as fox hunting, coon hunting and bird hunting. I guess All those who use dogs for that should be considered "rednecks" too.


ETA: What on EARTH does this have to do with the grouping of dog abuse being more common in the south? There are hunters everywhere.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I live in the south and it does make me SICK to see dogs chained to trees!!! However, while we are stereotyping, I will say that 100% of my observations of this have been in lower socio-economic areas. I just haven't seen it in middle and upper-middle class areas. (And I do realize things are different out in the country where dogs may be used for hunting or sheep herding and that kind of thing.) In the south, there are some dogs who have fenced yards and dog houses, and I see nothing wrong with that for most dogs other than toy size. Dogs lived for thousands of years outdoors, and especially in the South, the climate allows for it most of the time. I have had dogs live both inside my house and in a fenced yard with adequate shelter and all were loved and played with by the family. I also believe strongly in having more than one dog if family members work or go to school since dogs are pack animals and need the companionship. My dogs love being in their fenced yard with the freedom to go in and out with a doggie door. They get to bark at squirrels and run and play which they could not do if kept inside all the time. They are medium sized and not lap dogs, though. We've had those, too, in the past, and they were strictly indoor dogs. We have also had indoor and outdoor cats, and my personal conclusion is that the outside cats are happiest when free and have the opportunity to live as nature intended....with the understanding that we live in an area with large yards, lots of connected land, and almost no traffic. I understand that those who live in large cities or apartments cannot do this.

 

[iheartscience]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I didn't say running dogs was illegal. (Although it is actually illegal in most states, with the exception of the South.) I do think it's unsportsmanlike and so does my dad and many other hunters who prefer to abide by what's known as the "fair chase" ethic. (And for the record, my father also doesn't shoot young bucks or does.) And in my experience growing up in rural Virginia, people who run dogs to flush deer out tend to be rednecks.

This has to do with animal abuse because the most neglected, sickly dogs I've seen have been kept as hunting dogs and used to run deer. Also, using dogs to hunt deer is a Southern tradition, and we're talking about how dogs are treated in the South. Hope that clears it up for you.

 

[sctsbride09]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

AraAnn- That literally made me ill to read about the poor doberman that your friend called animal control for and adopted. SO GLAD to hear that he or she is being spoiled rotten now. That truly is a testament to dogs spirit that they can move beyond such abuse to still be a loving pet. I have a dobie, and they are very sensitive to the cold, I cant for the life of me figure out why that asshat would leave him/her outside like that. Maybe the same should be done to him/her see how they like it? Give your friend a huge hug for me.

 

[dragonfly411]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I didn't say running dogs was illegal. (Although it is actually illegal in most states, with the exception of the South.) I do think it's unsportsmanlike and so does my dad and many other hunters who prefer to abide by what's known as the "fair chase" ethic. (And for the record, my father also doesn't shoot young bucks or does.) And in my experience growing up in rural Virginia, people who run dogs to flush deer out tend to be rednecks.

This has to do with animal abuse because the most neglected, sickly dogs I've seen have been kept as hunting dogs and used to run deer. Also, using dogs to hunt deer is a Southern tradition, and we're talking about how dogs are treated in the South. Hope that clears it up for you.

To see the sickliest dogs I"ve ever seen, go read my links. Those weren't hunting dogs and they weren't in the south.

Using dogs to hunt deer is actually a European tradition, when Kings would use hounds to hunt stags. It carried through when settlers came to the U.S. and continued to use dogs to help hunt their dinner, which included deer, rabbits, raccoons, antelope, bison, and even squirrels. It is not just a southern tradition.

 

[House Cat]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

Some of the poorest people I know have pets and love them with all of their hearts. They actually continue to take in more pets because their hearts are so big. I see homeless people with dogs all of the time. Their dogs are their only true companion. My state actually provides free vet care for these animals so that they can keep their animals healthy.


My husband is a hunter. We socialize with a very large group of waterfowl hunters in the Northern California area. Many of these people have hunting dogs for the purpose of hunting. Maybe waterfowl hunting is a little different than bear hunting or other types of hunting because you don't need DOGS, you only need one dog. The hunters we socialize with have poured thousands of dollars into their one dog and they LOVE their dogs. That lab is a family pet when it isn't hunting. One woman in particular had a lab that hunted with her for over ten years. He came down with cancer of some kind when he got older and she spent over $40,000 on surgeries and medical treatment to keep him alive. She said to us, "He gave me the best years of his life, it is my duty to give back to him."

We do, however, know a man who pig hunts and he has a pack of pit bulls for the purpose of hunting, and I don't think they are pets in the house when they aren't hunting.

I think certain circles of people see animals in general as lower on the food chain with no feelings...no soul. For those people, I really do believe they need to watch the movie, Why Dogs Smile and Chimpanzees Cry. It is such a miraculous movie that proves beyond all doubt that animals DO have feelings. While that may be apparent to us because we have taken the time to get to know our dogs, cats, birds, etc, I think that those who were raised to think animals are stupid walking hunks of flesh need more convincing.

I think the people who feel this way about animals are acting on pure ignorance. I'd like to think that anyway.

 

[sctsbride09]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

HouseCat- If PS had a "like" function, I would hit it like 100 times for your post. So true, all of it.

 

[iheartscience]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I didn't say running dogs was illegal. (Although it is actually illegal in most states, with the exception of the South.) I do think it's unsportsmanlike and so does my dad and many other hunters who prefer to abide by what's known as the "fair chase" ethic. (And for the record, my father also doesn't shoot young bucks or does.) And in my experience growing up in rural Virginia, people who run dogs to flush deer out tend to be rednecks.

This has to do with animal abuse because the most neglected, sickly dogs I've seen have been kept as hunting dogs and used to run deer. Also, using dogs to hunt deer is a Southern tradition, and we're talking about how dogs are treated in the South. Hope that clears it up for you.

To see the sickliest dogs I"ve ever seen, go read my links. Those weren't hunting dogs and they weren't in the south.

Using dogs to hunt deer is actually a European tradition, when Kings would use hounds to hunt stags. It carried through when settlers came to the U.S. and continued to use dogs to help hunt their dinner, which included deer, rabbits, raccoons, antelope, bison, and even squirrels. It is not just a southern tradition.

I'm talking about the dogs I've personally come across, not a bunch of internet stories. Hunting whitetail deer with dogs (which is what I've been talking about the entire time) is only practiced in 9 states, and even in those states not all counties allow it. The states that allow it include: Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama and Arkansas. Like I said, it's a Southern tradition, and it's one that's controversial.

 

[dragonfly411]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I didn't say running dogs was illegal. (Although it is actually illegal in most states, with the exception of the South.) I do think it's unsportsmanlike and so does my dad and many other hunters who prefer to abide by what's known as the "fair chase" ethic. (And for the record, my father also doesn't shoot young bucks or does.) And in my experience growing up in rural Virginia, people who run dogs to flush deer out tend to be rednecks.

This has to do with animal abuse because the most neglected, sickly dogs I've seen have been kept as hunting dogs and used to run deer. Also, using dogs to hunt deer is a Southern tradition, and we're talking about how dogs are treated in the South. Hope that clears it up for you.

To see the sickliest dogs I"ve ever seen, go read my links. Those weren't hunting dogs and they weren't in the south.

Using dogs to hunt deer is actually a European tradition, when Kings would use hounds to hunt stags. It carried through when settlers came to the U.S. and continued to use dogs to help hunt their dinner, which included deer, rabbits, raccoons, antelope, bison, and even squirrels. It is not just a southern tradition.

I'm talking about the dogs I've personally come across, not a bunch of internet stories. Hunting whitetail deer with dogs (which is what I've been talking about the entire time) is only practiced in 9 states, and even in those states not all counties allow it. The states that allow it include: Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama and Arkansas. Like I said, it's a Southern tradition, and it's one that's controversial.

The bolded part is your quote Thing. Stags in Europe are a type of deer. And as I said before, Dogs are used to hunt other animals, like birds, hogs, rabbits, foxes and raccoons.

I LIVE in the south and I HUNT and I go to hunting clubs IN THE SOUTH, and I have only ONCE seen dogs that were sickly and starved and those dogs were reported and removed from the club and further action was taken against the owner. I've been around hunting since I was a child. That's at least 23 years in the woods. Hunters as a main group do not all treat their dogs badly. They are not all "rednecks" who treat their dogs in "disgusting" manners. The dogs are happy, healthy animals who enjoy their job and are treated with great care and pride. When you have spent your entire life in the woods in the SOUTH then you can come tell me that the majority of hunters do what they do.

Those random internet stories are REAL cases of neglect and abuse. Dogs left with mange. Dogs left with no food. Pitt bulls being starved. Small dogs being starved. Horses being starved and their dead bodies being piled in a line. Again, as I've been trying to get across from the start, ignorance, neglect, and abuse are not just centered in the south. Pitt bulls used for fighting are treated much worse than hunting dogs who get to lounge about most of the day with plenty of food and water. Animals that are being hoarded and live in their own filth are living much worse lives too. It is not just one area, or one breed, or one sub group of owners, or one type. It is all over. It is everywhere. It is sad and sick and in an ideal world it wouldn't happen. Unfortunately I think it will always be an issue that people are trying to prevent, due to lack of education, laziness, or lack of emotion/empathy.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

I didn't say running dogs was illegal. (Although it is actually illegal in most states, with the exception of the South.) I do think it's unsportsmanlike and so does my dad and many other hunters who prefer to abide by what's known as the "fair chase" ethic. (And for the record, my father also doesn't shoot young bucks or does.) And in my experience growing up in rural Virginia, people who run dogs to flush deer out tend to be rednecks.

This has to do with animal abuse because the most neglected, sickly dogs I've seen have been kept as hunting dogs and used to run deer. Also, using dogs to hunt deer is a Southern tradition, and we're talking about how dogs are treated in the South. Hope that clears it up for you.

To see the sickliest dogs I"ve ever seen, go read my links. Those weren't hunting dogs and they weren't in the south.

Using dogs to hunt deer is actually a European tradition, when Kings would use hounds to hunt stags. It carried through when settlers came to the U.S. and continued to use dogs to help hunt their dinner, which included deer, rabbits, raccoons, antelope, bison, and even squirrels. It is not just a southern tradition.

I'm talking about the dogs I've personally come across, not a bunch of internet stories. Hunting whitetail deer with dogs (which is what I've been talking about the entire time) is only practiced in 9 states, and even in those states not all counties allow it. The states that allow it include: Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama and Arkansas. Like I said, it's a Southern tradition, and it's one that's controversial.

The bolded part is your quote Thing. Stags in Europe are a type of deer. And as I said before, Dogs are used to hunt other animals, like birds, hogs, rabbits, foxes and raccoons.

I LIVE in the south and I HUNT and I go to hunting clubs IN THE SOUTH, and I have only ONCE seen dogs that were sickly and starved and those dogs were reported and removed from the club and further action was taken against the owner. I've been around hunting since I was a child. That's at least 23 years in the woods. Hunters as a main group do not all treat their dogs badly. They are not all "rednecks" who treat their dogs in "disgusting" manners. The dogs are happy, healthy animals who enjoy their job and are treated with great care and pride. When you have spent your entire life in the woods in the SOUTH then you can come tell me that the majority of hunters do what they do.

Those random internet stories are REAL cases of neglect and abuse. Dogs left with mange. Dogs left with no food. Pitt bulls being starved. Small dogs being starved. Horses being starved and their dead bodies being piled in a line. Again, as I've been trying to get across from the start, ignorance, neglect, and abuse are not just centered in the south. Pitt bulls used for fighting are treated much worse than hunting dogs who get to lounge about most of the day with plenty of food and water. Animals that are being hoarded and live in their own filth are living much worse lives too. It is not just one area, or one breed, or one sub group of owners, or one type. It is all over. It is everywhere. It is sad and sick and in an ideal world it wouldn't happen. Unfortunately I think it will always be an issue that people are trying to prevent, due to lack of education, laziness, or lack of emotion/empathy.

How about we all just agree to disagree and return to our respective sides of the Mason Dixon Line.

 

[MonkeyPie]

Re: Who Can Explain the Attitude Toward Dogs in the U.S. Sou

How about we all just agree to disagree and return to our respective sides of the Mason Dixon Line.

And to add to that - stop taking a subject that DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU so personally. Really, the discussion was interesting until it became a chance to browbeat your opinion into others. Come on.