Whiteflash free shipping - is it just me or is it a bit deceiving

[MiniMouse]

When my hubby and I had a diamond sent from Whiteflash to our appraiser in July, we were under no illusion that if we chose not to buy the stone, then we were liable to pay shipping. We thought the policy was clear enough. Free shipping is on SALES, which makes sense. Quite honestly I think we''re lucky vendors such as WF will send diamonds out on ''approval''.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 2/3/2006 11:19:12 PM
Author: scapel


All good points, but what I'm saying is this. Policies are generally well stated. But you were saying that people are always assuming and blaming a vendor if they didn't spend the time to find out specifics. Let's say I buy a diamond from Bluenile. They don't have anything on their site that indicates that the original shipping will be deducted upon a return. Call me ignorant but if I was unfamiliar with the other online vendors here I would not have a clue that I would be charged this if that was their policy, and I wouldn't necessary know to call them and ask.

I get what you're saying, Scapel, and you make great points.

Maybe it would resonate more for you to know that the highlighted passage above applies to much more than just this thread of yours. There have been a few threads going on here recently where folks have assumed or expected that certain services are either thrown in at no charge or already included in the price of their transaction, and it's caused quite a bit of distress for those folks to learn it wasn't as they expected. No one wants to have a disappointing transaction.

Maybe I'm different from most folks, but I always assume that someone who makes a living providing goods and services expects to be paid for those....whether major or minor....unless they expressly say otherwise for that specific instance.

My good friend is a plumber; we've asked him to come by twice for routine service call checks, and we hired him to come a third time to install a catch-pan under the 2nd floor washing machine. When I phoned him the first time, I expected to pay whatever his standard rate is.......the one he charges anyone else. He didn't - he gave us a break. When I called him the second time, I again expected to pay full rate, and again, he gave us a break. So by now, am I expecting I will get a break? NO. I will always expect to pay (and plan on paying) him full rate for his work unless he explicitly says otherwise every single time he's here. (If, over time, I earn a position as a really good customer of his, I might feel inclined to ask for a discount....but I wouldn't ever assume it would just apply.) I cannot reasonably expect him not to charge me for something when that's what he makes his living doing.

I can understand not being expected to know about restocking fees or handling fees or many other "behind the scenes, don't think about them" details of a transaction, and I do reasonably expect vendors to tell me of things like that. But I guess I always expect to pay a jeweler to size my ring. I always expect to pay a jeweler to set a stone. That's not an oblique, hidden cost associated with a task of another name....it IS the task you ask them to perform.

On returning goods, simple math and a little common sense says that a vendor will lose money if they ship you a $500 stone, pay $20 to ship it to you, and then refund $500 if you return it. They aren't whole then....they are out $20. Some vendors with huge resources may be able to hedge their bets a little on that one and make it up in higher margins....but other vendors who don't cannot be expected to follow suit.

Date: 2/3/2006 11:19:12 PM
Author: scapel

Let's say I buy a diamond from Bluenile. They don't have anything on their site that indicates that the original shipping will be deducted upon a return. Call me ignorant but if I was unfamiliar with the other online vendors here I would not have a clue that I would be charged this if that was their policy, and I wouldn't necessary know to call them and ask.

Right, but in this example, you're saying something different than what was brought out initially. In this example, you're saying hypothetically that BN *does* deduct shipping charges from refund amount but DOESN"T disclose that anywhere on their website.

That's a way different scenario than "WF and GOG and ERD do disclose that they deduct original shipping charges from refund amount, but they don't do it in the precise spot I'd like them to."

You say "well, if I didn't know about the other online vendors, I wouldn't have known enough to ask." This is a completely separate issue from "where something is outlined in a policy", so let's move on to it.

"I wouldn't have known enough to ask." Fair enough.....and that's true for all of us at some point when we are inexperienced. But those are lessons we have to chalk up to "things we learned at our own expense".

I recently bought a used car out of state. When shopping for the car, I asked everything I could think of. I did my homework....I had the car inspected there by a local mechanic prior to committing to the sale. I ran the carfax report....and negotiated with them to cover the cost of the car-fax report. I did every smart thing I could think of........and yet, I learned that my insurance company (who has been able to accept faxed titles for previous cars) could not accept a faxed title for THIS car. Why? Becausee THIS car was from out-of-state, and they are not allowed to accept faxed copies on out of state cars.

Believe me when I tell you that's not spelled out anywhere in their policy (!), and I had no way of knowing to ask.

My plan was to go to NY, test drive the car, buy it if I wanted it, and dirve it home. NY state requires proof of insurance to drive off the lot. I couldn't get proof of insurance without the original title....which noone in their right mind will release until you PAY for the car.....which I wouldn't do blind with no test-drive. I said, OK, I'll get temp NY plates and drive it home and then register it in my state. NOPE....my state is the only one in the ENTIRE blanked-y-blank union! that won't recognize temp plates from another state as lawful. If I drove into my state and was stopped, I'd be driving unreigstered and therefore uninsured.

Because of this, my choices were 1) leave the car in NY (and if it was damaged by fire or something, my loss uninsured), bring the orig title to my insurance, then to my dmv to register, and then arrange for another ride to NY and pay gas/tolls to go get my car and drive it home.......OR 2) pay a transport company $375 to bring it here, where it would sit at my house undriveable until I got it registered.

Moral of this ridiculous story: There is no way I could have reasonably been expected to know about the insurance company's inability to take a faxed title.....or to even know enough to ask them if they could. But I don't think that their failure to disclose it to me means they were trying to gouge me, pull one over on me, or that they should reimburse me the transport charges incurred because I didn't know better. I didn't expect the seller to lower the price of the car to pay for transport to me....that was never part of our original sale agreement. It's just one of those things you learn by experience, and that's all.

 

[firebirdgold]

Date: 2/4/2006 1:05:11 AM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 2/3/2006 11:19:12 PM

Author: scapel


......
All good points, but what I''m saying is this. Policies are generally well stated. But you were saying that people are always assuming and blaming a vendor if they didn''t spend the time to find out specifics......

.......
That''s a way different scenario than ''WF and GOG and ERD do disclose that they deduct original shipping charges from refund amount, but they don''t do it in the precise spot I''d like them to.''

There''s a good reason people get paid big bucks for web usability advice. We''re not talking about an intent to defraud here, but an oversight. It is extremely difficult for people who make websites and are so intimate with the business to see it from the perspective of a customer seeing for the first time. It seems perfectly reasonable to them to put that bit of info in the section about returns.

And I''d rather pay to return something than to pay higher margins for everything!

 

[MiniMouse]

Date: 2/4/2006 1:05:11 AM
Author: aljdewey

Because of this, my choices were 1) leave the car in NY (and if it was damaged by fire or something, my loss uninsured), bring the orig title to my insurance, then to my dmv to register, and then arrange for another ride to NY and pay gas/tolls to go get my car and drive it home.......OR 2) pay a transport company $375 to bring it here, where it would sit at my house undriveable until I got it registered.

Alj.... what did you do?

 

[Shay37]

This refund less shipping charges related to an upgrade, right? Was the upgrade sent with no shipping charges? If so, the two cancel each other out and the whole argument is moot. People who have done the upgrade thing from WF or another vendor with the same policy, please comment.

shay

 

[diamondseeker2006]

My view is that before I buy anything anywhere, online or not, I look at the RETURN policy!!! That is the buyers responsibility and no fault of the website design, IMO.

 

[slammie]

Date: 2/4/2006 10:37:58 AM
Author: Shay37
This refund less shipping charges related to an upgrade, right? Was the upgrade sent with no shipping charges? If so, the two cancel each other out and the whole argument is moot. People who have done the upgrade thing from WF or another vendor with the same policy, please comment.


shay

Perhaps I misunderstood what Pebbles was saying but I thought she meant that when she upgraded her stone, they applied the value of her stone minus the original shipping. Usually stones that are sent to a vendor is a cost incurred by the sender so I don't think the upgrade was sent with no shipping charges.
I have upgraded my stone twice and my vendor did not subtract the cost of originally shipping on either occasion. If a vendor does subtract shipping charges, then I for one would want that info stated clearly.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 2/4/2006 5:10:36 AM
Author: MiniMouse

Date: 2/4/2006 1:05:11 AM
Author: aljdewey

Because of this, my choices were 1) leave the car in NY (and if it was damaged by fire or something, my loss uninsured), bring the orig title to my insurance, then to my dmv to register, and then arrange for another ride to NY and pay gas/tolls to go get my car and drive it home.......OR 2) pay a transport company $375 to bring it here, where it would sit at my house undriveable until I got it registered.

Alj.... what did you do?

I paid the transport company the $375 to bring it up here to me. It would burn another whole day for me and for a friend of mine to drive 9-10 hours round trip to go back and get it, never mind the cost of gas for both cars, etc. Just not worth it.

So, I went to test-drive the car on Columbus Day, decided to purchase it right then, and took the original title home with me that day. The next morning, the transport company picked up the car and brought it up to MA for me.

Coda to the lovely story.....I had my beautiful new (to me ) Highlander here and couldn''t drive it for 2 days more. My state went insano-nitpicky and was just miserable to deal with. They wouldn''t accept the title with only one of two spouses signatures on it (subsequently learned the wife had died 4 months earlier and had to get death certificate faxed to me). Round 2 at the DMV - their address for the NY dealership was the parts department address and not the sales dept address....and even though BOTH were on my bill of sale, they wouldn''t accept it. Had to get another copy of THAT overnighted to me. Third time was a charm, thank god, or I''d be writing you from JAIL now after strangling the life out of the DMV clerk!

Ahhhhhhhh - but it''s all worth it. The car is a dream. Lesson learned on the out-of-state experience. (DMV clerk actually had the nerve to say to me "well, YOU chose to live here")....hahahahhah!

 

[MiniMouse]

Heck, Alj. all that would have done my head in!

 

[solange]

I had Whiteflash look for a stone for me for some time since I had specific requirements. When Lesley finally located one she thought might be the one for me, she advised me that the stone was at a New York diamond dealer. Since I live in Manhattan, I asked if I could see the stone there but she advised me that these dealers do not sell to private customers as they are not set up for that.

She had rejected several stones that I called her attention to on the multiple listing site after calling the vendors and determining whether they were eye clean. Most were several thousand dollars more than the stone I ultimately bought from them. I really wanted an H or better and possibly SI 1 eyeclean and gave them a budget that ould have covered that quality

Lesley advised me that I was entitled to one free shipping. She said they would send for the stone and if they felt It was as described and up to their standards, they would charge me for having it brought in. I discussed it with Brian and he said the stone was an excellent one. I told him I was reluctant about the I color and SI2 but he assured me it was very rare to find a completely eye clean SI2 in that size and with Ideal proportions in that size. If Brian decided the stone was not as described by the vendor, I was under no obligation to pay anything. I told him I was willing to pay more but he said I would have to pay a lot more to get a stone that looked better than this one. He said it was a beautiful stone and highly recommended it for cut, color appearance and price.

Whiteflash sent the stone to an appraiser at their shipping cost cost so I could see it. When I decded to return the stone for setting after a favorable review from the appraiser, I had to pay to have the stone shipped back to them plus the cost of the appraisal..

Since I also bought the settng from Whiteflash, I do not recall whether I had to pay shipping back to me but they were very clear as to their policy. I do not think vendors make money on stones that are sent out for approval and then returned and if they did not charge, clients would be having stones sent from many different vendors at great cost and inconvenience to the vendors while taking the stones out of circulation in the interum..

If the information was not clear, a call to Whiteflash would have satisfied your inquiry as to charges for shipping back a stone. If they did not charge most of their time might be spent shipping out stones just to be looked at and returned by buyers who were either not ready or were just curious to see a particular stone without being focused on what they want.

When you are buying an expensive item, I think it is up to the potential buyer to make certain that they have all the information needed before having a stone sent out for approval.

 

[zdiamond999]

WF is a fair organization.

I know an individual who bought a diamond product from them in May 05.
Was returned because it was out of spec and when reviewed by their production people and quality control, agreed it was not their best. Thye fixed product, no charge, and returned to customer no charge, all at their expense via Fedex, overnite.

 

[Jelly]

Date: 2/4/2006 10:37:58 AM
Author: Shay37
This refund less shipping charges related to an upgrade, right? Was the upgrade sent with no shipping charges? If so, the two cancel each other out and the whole argument is moot. People who have done the upgrade thing from WF or another vendor with the same policy, please comment.

shay

I''m in the process of getting an upgrade at WF. During my first conversation with Lesley, she mentioned that I would get 100% credit of my old stone less the shipping charge. They shipped my new stone for me to view first, and they didn''t charge for shipping.

I personally don''t think their shipping policy is deceiving at all. If there is any confusion, your representative will clear it up immediately.

 

[noobie]

Date: 2/4/2006 12:13:57 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
c''mon guys, use some common sense. if evey vendor ships out 50 stones per day to customers and everyone of them are returned,after a FREE LOOK SEE, by not charging a shipping fee they would be out of business in a hurry. i''m not on the side of the vendors, but just use some common sense here.

I have a slightly different perspective on this. It''s not a FREE LOOK SEE. In almost all cases, you are still responsible for shipping it back at a cost of $20 - $30 and tying up your money. Not to mention the claim hassles if it ever gets misplaced in return shipping. I don''t think most people buying are there for a casual look.

Buying on line is new to many people, and a diamond is a big leap, sight unseen. Many steps are used to make buyers more comfortable such as return periods, loads of information and "free shipping". I see it as a cost of doing business for online vendors, whose customers don''t get to see the item first. We aren''t talking about books or DVDs that are the same everywhere.

That being said, I think WF''s policy is clear and not deceiving. Everyone should check the return policy or ask before buying. Personally I don''t agree with deducting the shipping on an upgrade, since thay will likely make better margins on the returned stone, given the recent price increases and it gives the appearance of an irritant and nickle and diming a return customer. However, that''s neither here nor there.

I also wonder why WF was picked for one of their policies. One could create a topic like this for many things and for many vendors. Buyers really need to read and ask before buying.

 

[firebirdgold]

Date: 2/3/2006 5:10:34 PM
Author:scapel
I noticed that Whiteflash and others have ''free overnight shipping''. However, it is not clear especially on Whiteflash''s website that if you return the diamond, then you have to pay back the original shipping amount. In fact, this info is not in the free shipping information sections, rather it is in the ''10 day money back'' section. I would have easily missed this if it wasn''t for a post I saw a few weeks ago about one''s experience with them over the shipping cost. I feel that vendors should make this a bit more clear..am I in the minority in this thinking?

(I''m a bit cranky today so forgive me if I step overbounds)
What annoys me about this thread, is that scapel doesn''t even sound like a customer! People have been discussing ''shipping cost deducted from the upgrade'' thing. But this guy isn''t upgrading, he hasn''t even bought anything from WF! And in re-reading his posts, he''s not even saying that paying the shipping cost to return a diamond is a bad thing, just that he wanted the info to be in the free-shipping information section. And I do feel like he singled out WF.

maybe more caffeine will improve my mood....