Whiteflash ACA vs Crafted by Infinity

[whitewave]

I am sorry, but did I miss something here?

For my new 2.79 F-VS1 CBI , I just posted the following in my thread and they look pretty clear to me.
Video of my diamond
Video of my diamond live under the ASET scope
10x Image
Arrows Image
ASET Image
Hearts Image
Idealscope Image
Photo of diamond face up
Photo of diamond pavilon up
Glamour Photo of diamond

This was enough documentation for me to buy this gorgeous diamond sight unseen, although both Wink and John offered to ship it to my home for my viewing, or view it locally at a store in San Francisco.

I believe OoohShiny lives in the UK and is a CBI owner, perhaps he can weigh in here.

Yes, I completely skipped over all of that. Wink made me a video, which I posted under my "blown away by crafted by infinity" thread. The photo, ASET, IS, H&A along with talking with them through email and phone call and the video all gave me 100% confidence that this is a purchase I wanted to make.

Here are my angles:

 

[whitewave]

@Sparkly2017
I was googling CBI and I found this dealer in London who you may be interested in:

 

[marcy]

I have three ACA and one CBI diamond. All are F color but different sizes and clarity. All of them met and exceeded my expectations; they all are beautiful diamonds. I would not say one brand is better than the other. Trust me I've compared all the diamonds frequently in different lighting just to see if I could tell the difference in performance. I don't think you'd be disappointed with either one so I'd go with the diamond that meets my desired specs for the least amount of money.

As Neil said if you can compare them side by side you might find you prefer one over the other but I think you'd have the same results if you were looking at a couple or diamonds that were only ACA or CBI.

 

[Lula]

Yes this is true. BUT their stones can be more costly which essentially pays for this option. Also HPD doesn't have v clear photos and videos which does make it more tricky to buy from my experience. I would LOVE to own a CBI stone but have found it v tricky from the UK. Having seen them in real life - I have to say they are just as remarkable as the BGD and VC stones I own.

I am sorry, but did I miss something here?

For my new 2.79 F-VS1 CBI , I just posted the following in my thread and they look pretty clear to me.
Video of my diamond
Video of my diamond live under the ASET scope
10x Image
Arrows Image
ASET Image
Hearts Image
Idealscope Image
Photo of diamond face up
Photo of diamond pavilon up
Glamour Photo of diamond

This was enough documentation for me to buy this gorgeous diamond sight unseen, although both Wink and John offered to ship it to my home for my viewing, or view it locally at a store in San Francisco.

I believe OoohShiny lives in the UK and is a CBI owner, perhaps he can weigh in here.

Ditto cflutist. When I bought my five CBI diamonds for a five-stone band, Wink not only sent me videos for each of the stones, but he also set up a web-conferencing call with me so I could see the whole group of CBI stones "live." He was testing out some new technology, and I was the lucky guinea pig

Honestly, it sure seems like I see a fair amount of inaccurate information floating around on this site about HPD. I've been working with them since 2009. HPD has the best upgrade and buyback policies of ALL of the vendors recommended here (ask me how I know, lol!). They work with a variety of benches, are able to work with a range of budgets, and their customer service is superb. There's a reason why many longtime posters on this site -- many of whom who can afford the absolute best -- are loyal and repeat customers. #You.get.what.you.pay.for.

 

[Karl_K]

While I can't weight in on one brand vs another I can add a few things to this thread I think.
I 100% agree with Neil stone by stone! I encourage everyone to so the same.
Keep the pressure on to always deliver what the brand promises.

There are a couple different ways to get rough to cut to a specific configuration.
Just buying rough to fit all the time is not practical.
A cutter can:
1: Buy rough, take out what you need and sell the rest back to the rough market.
2: Buy rough, cut what can be cut to their configuration, Cut the rest to other profitable configurations based on the rough and sell it on the lists unbranded.

To do number 1 you have to be extremely precise in your selection process or you might get stuck with some rough you can't sell or cut to your brand.

 

[cflutist]

@Sparkly2017
I was googling CBI and I found this dealer in London who you may be interested in:

Dang, I was just in London for a few days this past June before my 18-day Norway cruise.
Had I known, I would have dropped in myself.

 

[OoohShiny]

I believe OoohShiny lives in the UK and is a CBI owner, perhaps he can weigh in here.

Helloooooo

I bought off the HPD website listing alone (in terms of visual assessment) and some email chat with Wink - the stone I bought was only a baby in terms of PS-sized rocks lol, so there was no video, but the returns policy meant I was confident that if I didn't like it, I could return it easily

(Insurance of a return was my only question - I'm not sure if @Wink or Melissa @Winks_Elf would be able to clarify if HPD are able to insure returns or whether it needs to be purchased by the returner.)

As I tentatively opened the tissue paper, wondering how something so small could cost what it does, and whether it would be worth the money, I was basically astounded as to how good it looked and how well it performed. Having only seen mediocre/crap cuts in local stores (and even in Hatton Garden IIRC) I was expecting something very 'meh', the same sort of white-ish / slightly-sparkly / not-very-'wow' stuff I'd seen elsewhere, but it was (and, of course, still is!) a ball of fire that has amazing performance. I think I spent hours staring at it and playing with it in different lights in the mornings after the good lady had gone to work, which I think is probably a good indicator of how well-cut a stone is It catches my eye with flashes of bright colour from across the room when we have only the table lamps on in the room, so its performance is amazing!

So, in summary, I would buy from and recommend HPD and CBI stones without hesitation. Are they more expensive? Yes. Have I at any point felt it was a waste of money? Definitely not. Have I seen anything else in the shops over here that comes close to its performance? No! Did it work out cheaper to buy from the US than it did over here? Yes (with similar prices over here getting smaller stones with lower clarity in WG not Pt). Will we ever use the upgrade policy? No, but that's because the missus does not want to get rid of this particular stone, but I am likely to be returning if/when I get the cash together for some earrings and/or an eternity ring...


I can't comment on how they compare to ACA or any of the other branded cuts (as I have not seen them), but CBI does not disappoint

 

[Sparkly2017]

Hi All I do believe you are all commenting on Wink at HPD and not ALL suppliers of CBI Diamonds.

It sounds like you have all had great experiences but I think that’s because you guys were able to deal with Wink. I was not allowed to do that (long story). Being based in London - I was directed to Celine at Diamond House (Antwerp) - who is based on the map above. She doesn't do the videos and only comes to London 2x a month - and didn't for 5 weeks in the Summer! That is a LONG time to wait to check clarity.

Quite hard to buy the diamonds online if no videos are provided on the website from my experience.

I have seen VC, BG and CBI stones and they are all beautiful. I've just found the ability to look at the videos online have made my online purchases a lot easier and being pushed into using the London supplier didn't work out very well for me.

 

[whitewave]

Hi All I do believe you are all commenting on Wink at HPD and not ALL suppliers of CBI Diamonds.

It sounds like you have all had great experiences but I think that’s because you guys were able to deal with Wink. I was not allowed to do that (long story). Being based in London - I was directed to Celine at CBI - who is based on the map above. She doesn't do the videos and only comes to London 2x a month - and didn't for 5 weeks in the Summer! That is a LONG time to wait to check clarity.

Quite hard to buy the diamonds online if no videos are provided from my experience.

I have seen VC, BG and CBI stones and they are all beautiful. I've just found the ability to look at the videos online have made my online purchases a lot easier and being pushed into using the London supplier didn't work out very well for me.

Ahhhh!!! Thanks for the clarification! What a bummer.

 

[OoohShiny]

Hi All I do believe you are all commenting on Wink at HPD and not ALL suppliers of CBI Diamonds.

It sounds like you have all had great experiences but I think that’s because you guys were able to deal with Wink. I was not allowed to do that (long story). Being based in London - I was directed to Celine at CBI - who is based on the map above. She doesn't do the videos and only comes to London 2x a month - and didn't for 5 weeks in the Summer! That is a LONG time to wait to check clarity.

Quite hard to buy the diamonds online if no videos are provided from my experience.

I have seen VC, BG and CBI stones and they are all beautiful. I've just found the ability to look at the videos online have made my online purchases a lot easier and being pushed into using the London supplier didn't work out very well for me.

Thanks for your feedback on the London arrangements - @Paul-Antwerp may be interested!

 

[Dancing Fire]

I have had the pleasure of seeing/ holding CBI, ACA, BGD and GOG H&A stones in my hand and all I can say is that they are all well cut beautiful H&A stones.

 

[Dancing Fire]

8* on my pinky...

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I have also seen Whiteflash ACA, GOG, and CBI diamonds, and I would buy any of them sight unseen at VS2 and higher clarity. They are are all great diamonds, but I currently own Whiteflash ACAs because they usually have the best selection and price. (I will say there is more variation in GOG's H&A stones, so they have to be evaluated individually.)

Reading back on the posts from the last day or two, I would disagree with some of the statements posted. I believe CBI is a cutting facility that markets their stones through various jewelers and HPD online, just as online jewelers such as WF, BG etc have cutting facilities they buy from. No jeweler mentioned has a cutting facility "in-house", they all have cutters from whom they buy their diamonds. This is absolutely immaterial to me. I would also strongly disagree that WF ACA is not equal to CBI and BG. WF has a perfect upgrade policy...100% of the stone cost is applied to the new stone and the new stone can cost as little as a dollar more. I think WF and CBI/HPD have the best upgrade policies of these 3.

 

[whitewave]

@diamondseeker2006 I believe all CBI diamonds are cut by Paul and manufactured by Infinity Diamonds. I believe that is why their inventory is smaller....

 

[diamondseeker2006]

@diamondseeker2006 I believe all CBI diamonds are cut by Paul and manufactured by Infinity Diamonds. I believe that is why their inventory is smaller....

I haven't visited any cutting facilities, but when I say Yoram has cut some of my stones, I mean his cutting facility. He is highly involved in the design and cutting, but it's not like he works alone and sits and cuts every diamond by himself. I think some people have a false idea about cutting facilities, and I do believe Paul is probably like Yoram in that he also has a small specialized cutting facility that he oversees and is highly involved in design and production, but I seriously doubt he's a one man show who cuts every diamond alone from start to finish. If I am wrong and he is the only cutter/worker at the CBI cutting facility and personally cuts every diamond alone, I would be more than happy to be corrected. I definitely think CBI is one of the best for superideal cuts! It's funny that we've had multiple cutter myths here over the years, but as far as I know, all the diamonds talked about here on PS are cut at cutting facilities with multiple cutters. It's just like saying you have a Leon Mege ring...he may design and even touch some of the rings during their making, but he employs ringmakers who do most of the actual fabrication. Jonathan has designed beautiful August Vintage stones, but he is not the cutter. This doesn't matter one iota to me who the physical cutter is because design and cutting are two different facets (pardon the pun) involved in the process, and both are essential. What matters to me is that I am buying an outstanding stone. Paul/CBI is outstanding, WF ACAs are outstanding, August Vintage is outstanding, Yoram/Gem Concepts is outstanding, etc.

 

[whitewave]

I agree that I would love to know more about the cutting aspect! @diamondseeker2006

I tried to get the name of the cutter who did my asscher, but blue Nile said that was "proprietary information."

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I agree that I would love to know more about the cutting aspect! @diamondseeker2006

I tried to get the name of the cutter who did my asscher, but blue Nile said that was "proprietary information."

Just as I said above, your asscher would have been cut by a diamond cutting facility. There's no way BN could give you the name of a specific cutter. Not to mention they list stones from many, many cutting sources!

Just wanted to add that if you are interested in diamond cutting, there are You Tube videos on general diamond cutting:

 

[diamondseeker2006]

This video actually is very interesting as it explains the entire cutting process from the brand Hearts on Fire (which we do usually not recommend because they are priced sooo much higher than the hearts and arrows diamond vendors we know of here, nor do we think they are better.). It introduces the master cutter at the beginning, but you can better understand that the process involves many people and not just the head of the factory. @whitewave

 

[824jagdds]

True hearts and blue Nile signature are not precision cut, just happen to be well cut ideals.

BGD, CBI, WF, VC all precision cut.

My own personal observations is that they are all very well precision cut but have different flavours.

CBI tend to favour a less than 34.5ish crown paired with a more often smaller table (<56)

Brian Gavin is often a higher 34.8 ish crown with a 40.8ish pavilion (higher end of ideal proportions crown and pavilion) and WF has documented ranges that encompasses a higher variety of personality.

None of these are rules and just observations I've made.

Can one of you please direct me to a source where I can learn more specifics regarding how these angles interact and what the expected effects would be? I mean within the ranges of super-ideals, for example what would be expected of CBI's measurements vs BG? So when I look at precision cut diamonds' angles I can do a better job of interpreting. Thank you!

 

[gm89uk]

They would perform very similarly. Honestly the best advice is that you should pick through one that has the right diamond at the right price, with an upgrade policy and customer service you're happy with.

 

[Sparkly2017]

Can one of you please direct me to a source where I can learn more specifics regarding how these angles interact and what the expected effects would be? I mean within the ranges of super-ideals, for example what would be expected of CBI's measurements vs BG? So when I look at precision cut diamonds' angles I can do a better job of interpreting. Thank you!

Hello - There are a lot of online guides available - some offer a concierge service and may be affiliated with a few of the vendors mentioned. Todd Gray at Nice Ice, Vincent Chan at Prosumer Diamonds and Paul Gian at Beyond 4Cs are examples of this. Have a google and a read and good luck!

 

[Dancing Fire]

I haven't visited any cutting facilities, but when I say Yoram has cut some of my stones, I mean his cutting facility. He is highly involved in the design and cutting, but it's not like he works alone and sits and cuts every diamond by himself..

Of course not, However I'd believe that my Octavia was cut by Yoram himself since he did posted a step by step photo process here on PS.

 

[egemnoel]

I haven't visited any cutting facilities, but when I say Yoram has cut some of my stones, I mean his cutting facility. He is highly involved in the design and cutting, but it's not like he works alone and sits and cuts every diamond by himself. I think some people have a false idea about cutting facilities, and I do believe Paul is probably like Yoram in that he also has a small specialized cutting facility that he oversees and is highly involved in design and production, but I seriously doubt he's a one man show who cuts every diamond alone from start to finish. If I am wrong and he is the only cutter/worker at the CBI cutting facility and personally cuts every diamond alone, I would be more than happy to be corrected. I definitely think CBI is one of the best for superideal cuts! It's funny that we've had multiple cutter myths here over the years, but as far as I know, all the diamonds talked about here on PS are cut at cutting facilities with multiple cutters. It's just like saying you have a Leon Mege ring...he may design and even touch some of the rings during their making, but he employs ringmakers who do most of the actual fabrication. Jonathan has designed beautiful August Vintage stones, but he is not the cutter. This doesn't matter one iota to me who the physical cutter is because design and cutting are two different facets (pardon the pun) involved in the process, and both are essential. What matters to me is that I am buying an outstanding stone. Paul/CBI is outstanding, WF ACAs are outstanding, August Vintage is outstanding, Yoram/Gem Concepts is outstanding, etc.

Spot on. Crafted by Infinity is a small team, not just one person, although Paul is master planner for each diamond, and is involved in the crafting process through final inspection.

There is an undeniable difference in their story though. Other producers cut many shapes and qualities. Paul Slegers founded CBI against such models, choosing to focus only on highest quality from selection through output. So CBI are applying highest standards before ever crafting, like a top chef selecting preferred ingredients. This involves the work of an amazing lady, their rough specialist Lieve Peeters. There was a thread about her turning up fake rough not too long ago.

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...ur-crafted-by-infinity-friends-photos.234038/


This craft-kitchen approach means CBI rejects hundreds of crystals for every one accepted. That answers how every SI1-SI2 Crafted by Infinity can be eye-clean and how performance is always fundamentally identical, diamond to diamond. They also document the selection and crafting history of each diamond, should a consumer be interested in such provenance.


Lieve and Paul’s skill also fuels some rather astonishing guarantees in the crafting to order programme their dealers offer. Most places cutting a diamond for a consumer will charge more if it improves at the lab. Not CBI. They explained to me, since the starting crystal was acquired based on their predicted outcome, any improvement will be treated as a bonus for the end-buyer.

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonds/diamonds-crafted-order


I realise the organic story I am telling is not a priority for everyone. Super ideals are not a priority for everyone either. However I’m something of a fanatic about things I love and this is fascinating to me. For certain I admire CBI for the interest they take even past their dealers, all the way to end consumers (like me). And I congratulate them for upholding the unique quality proposition since the company’s beginnings. That cannot be easy.


Regarding High Performance Diamonds, HPD are a retailer selling CBI. But since they dropped all other producers all of their diamonds automatically carry all of the CBI propositions from above. Wink from HPD told me selling only CBI made his life better because the quality lets him offer his unrestricted upgrade and the 80% lifetime buyback for every diamond sold (I don’t think anyone else offers the 80% lifetime buyback).


So that’s my 2 cents. In the big picture I want to add my agreement that all the brands and sellers being discussed here are truly top notch. No bad decisions among them. Someone else said to choose the diamond you want, along with the total package surrounding which fits you best. Cheers to that. I did very thorough investigation prior to my purchase and am ecstatic about it. Others go a different direction and are equally ecstatic. No bad decisions.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Exactly @gm89uk. I do not consider the stones at BN or JA superideal cut. If I am paying a premium, I want true hearts and arrows stones.

I do want to add that I was primarily addressing vendors already mentioned in the thread, and I am sorry that I didn't include @Victor Canera. He has a selection of fabulous diamonds from Hearts and Arrows to specialty antique cuts which he offers to those who desire one of his gorgeous handforged settings. I always search his stones as well as CBI, Whiteflash, and GOG when helping someone find a H&A stone.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

@egemnoel You and I are a lot alike in regard to your feelings about Paul/CBI and mine for Yoram/Gem Concepts. Both are small cutting houses with outstanding talent and quality. I think the difference for me is that I think I can get a superideal cut diamond from 3 or 4 sources, whereas most of what Yoram cuts are specialty cuts that are not readily accessible elsewhere. I do have a couple of stones from him that are not his original designs, but I appreciate the superior cutting his team does on both his original designs and others that he cuts.

What I will grant you is that CBI stones are extremely consistent, and not every stone from every vendor is. I have found consistency with my multiple upgrades for studs with Whiteflash and obviously am a loyal WF customer for my H&A stones. But I want to say that I have great respect for Wink, Paul, and John and would not hesitate to recommend or buy from them, as well.

When someone is looking for a superideal cut, I will look through all the inventories. If three vendors had a stone with the same specs, great images, and policies, I'd recommend buying by lowest price or through the one who has the setting they want. But often it isn't the case that multiple vendors have a stone the person is looking for anyway.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Hello - There are a lot of online guides available - some offer a concierge service and may be affiliated with a few of the vendors mentioned. Todd Gray at Nice Ice, Vincent Chan at Prosumer Diamonds and Paul Gian at Beyond 4Cs are examples of this. Have a google and a read and good luck!

Sparkly, I can't recommend that anyone here use those sources. They are not impartial since money is involved and they are affiliated with certain vendors . The best thing about Pricescope is that a person can get advice from multiple people who do not stand to profit. Several people might recommend stones, and we might be able to tell why some are better than others.

We can help with the angle question. But I am busy for the next couple of hours.

 

[Karl_K]

@Zapdos,

Are you saying that WF and BGD lower resolution in their images to "hid flaws a bit"?

Both vendors are highly recommended on this forum, and your wording seems to imply a deliberate attempt to "hide flaws". My apologies if I've misinterpreted your intent.

Thanks for the clarification.

Resolution does not help with heart images once you get to the point that the details can be clearly seen. It is not like clarity images that the more real magnification the more you can see.
What does matter is alignment, diamond aligned in the scope and the camera aligned and parallel with the scope and diamond while being centered in the scope.
There are a few different things that can cause deformation of the heart tips and the Vs under them.
1: camera/scope/diamond alignment.
2: azimuth shift and yaw - twist or variation in the 3d position of the facets. Flatness also plays a part.
3: wide ranging pavilion angles resulting in 2 to make the facet meet points.

Some vendors take the time to make sure everything is in proper alignment more so than others resulting in better images.
2MP 1x optical magnification or 40MP 10x optical magnification is not going to make a difference in what you can tell from a heart image.

 

[Sparkly2017]

Sparkly, I can't recommend that anyone here use those sources. They are not impartial since money is involved and they are affiliated with certain vendors . The best thing about Pricescope is that a person can get advice from multiple people who do not stand to profit. Several people might recommend stones, and we might be able to tell why some are better than others.

We can help with the angle question. But I am busy for the next couple of hours.

Agree they are most likely not impartial. Their websites are pretty useful though and I've found them to be all round good guys myself!

 

[Dancing Fire]

IMO, there are ideal cuts and there are top ideal cuts. Here is an example ...The bottom 2 pics is a re-cutted by CBI. The top 2 pics is a CBI stone that belongs to a friend of mine. The recut is a nice ideal stone but I can easily tell that my friend's CBI perform at a much higher level.

 

[Sahar]

HI @824jagdds I posted this in another thread but hope its useful!

This is my understanding having gone through a rigorous, borderline obsessive process myself. Happy to be corrected here but from what I can tell there are two elements of Super Ideals and their vendors - I'll refer to them as 1) The Ideal percentages/angles and 2) Precision and each vendor specialises in different ways.

1) Ideal Percentages/Angles relates to the average angle of the crown and pavilion, depth, table, upper and lower girdle facets etc.
2) Precision relates to how even these are all cut as the measurements are AVERAGES. The higher the precision the more they can be described as True Hearts and Arrows - which is subjective. This is to do with how even the hearts are, gaps in between them. In order:

- Brian Gavin Diamonds & Crafted by infinity (HPD) have the strictest guides for both 1 & 2 but you do end up paying for it. I have BGD Studs. Both vendors source and cut their own diamonds from rough to finish. Both have pretty good upgrade policies but BGD is stricter... You really get what you pay for though.

- Victor Canera Ideal Hearts offers similar diamonds in terms of 1 +2 , has a smaller inventory. But strictness is not as high as BGD or CBI I'm told. I actually bought my E-Ring from him as the stone he had was the best cut, price in the clarity, color and size I needed at the time. VC also uses only one cutter. Also have a decent upgrade policy. VC also does amazing settings.

- Whiteflash A Cut Above has 1 nailed down but you can look at their diamonds - some of them are perfect and others are not. They perform very well given 1 is met and pricing & (possibly the best) upgrade policy make them attractive. They don't have in-house cutters I think but I'm less sure of this.

- James Allen True Hearts are not dissimilar to Whiteflash ACA but I would say have looser standards than WF ACA.

- Blue Nile Signature cuts might be even looser than JA True Hearts.

That's not to say that stones from BN Signature will not out perform one from BGD/CBI or from any of these vendors - this is a total generalisation - on average - what I've seen from their inventory, read here and researched.

What should I look for in ACA diamond that is a miss?