Which would you chose? How to maximize sparkly & size w/ a small budget

[Raivyn]

Hi All!

I''ve been lurking for about a year and have been really amazed at everyone''s knowledge and helpfulness in buying diamonds. I''m sooo glad I found this forum!

Anyways, I''m trying to decide between three stones, and from what I''ve gathered on this board, proportions and angles are pretty important in determining the overall fire and brilliance of a diamond. I''m trying to find a stone for my E-ring, which was designed to accomodate a stone with a minimum 7.5mm width. Here are my other must-haves:

Budget: Preferably less than $5,000
Carat: Any, but must be 7.5mm in width to fit e-ring
Color: Any; I actually prefer lower color graded diamonds
Clarity: Eye-clean, so I''m guessing no lower than SI1
Cut: The more sparkly, the better!

My sister has an 8-Star diamond, and I love it, but it is definitely not within our price range for the size that we''d like. I''ve been shopping for a diamond for over a year, and the 8-Star I saw at one jewelry store was really the only diamond that made me say "WOW". I also saw Hearts on Fire diamonds, and I definitely preferred them to the non-branded stones at that particular retailer, so I''m inclined to think that a H&A stone is the way for me to go.

I actually had this stone at GOG on hold a few weeks ago, but chickened out because it seemed short and squat. I had read somewhere on the site that larger tables = less sparkly. However, it comes up as an H&A diamond, and GOG seems pretty particular about the diamonds they stock. Could a diamond be an H&A but not have nice fire and brilliance due to its cut? I originally thought that if a diamond was an H&A, then it would naturally sparkle more than one that wasn''t an H&A.

Stone #1:
1.58ct L VVS1
Width: 7.70mm
Length: 7.72mm
Depth: 4.44mm
GIA Cut Grade: Very Good
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Table Percentage: 62.49%
Depth Percentage: 57.63%
Crown Angle: 32.01°
Crown Depth: 11.83%
Pavilion Angle: 40.84°
Pavilion Depth: 43.10%
Flourescence: Faint
Price: $5,000

Stone #2 doesn''t come up as an H&A stone, but it has a GIA cut rating of excellent.

Stone #2:
1.63ct S VS2
Width: 7.53mm
Length: 7.56mm
Depth: 4.64mm
GIA Cut Grade: Excellent
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Excellent
Table Percentage: 60.00%
Depth Percentage: 61.5%
Crown Angle: 35.00°
Crown Depth: 14.00%
Pavilion Angle: 41.2°
Pavilion Depth: 49.50%
Flourescence: Med-Blue
Price: $2,900

This last stone - well, it''s just the right size for my needs while being in my budget.

Stone #3:
1.73ct N VS2
Width: 7.69mm
Length: 7.74mm
Depth: 4.67mm
GIA Cut Grade: Very Good
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Table Percentage: 60.00%
Depth Percentage: 60.5%
Crown Angle: 35.00°
Crown Depth: 14.50%
Pavilion Angle: 40.6°
Pavilion Depth: 43.00%
Flourescence: Faint
Price: $4,068

Unfortunately, Ideal-scope photos aren''t available for Stones 2 and 3, which would help me make a decision. I feel like I''m all over the place in terms of price and cut. It seems that Stone #2 may be a good deal, but its on the small end of what my setting would look nice with. Stone #3 has the size and price, but I''m concerned its cut quality may negate its size. Stone #1 is at the upper part of my budget, and while it is an H&A stone, given its proportions, I''m afraid it won''t sparkle enough to warrant the higher price.

Based on what I''ve described above, which of these stones would you choose, and why/why not? Thanks in advance for your help!!

 

[Lord Summerisle]

blimey, you dont make life easy for yourself...

1.5+ct for $5k or less!

one question is - how much you love the lower coloured stones - as 2 and 3 are very tinted. I''ve attached a photo taken by GoG of a N next to a D in the face up position.

of the 3 posted so far - running those figures through the cut advisor on here: Linky
comes up with
Stone 1
2.3 - Very Good - Worth buying if the price is right
You can see from the diamonds listings on good old gold - that it has ok light return, not the clean crisp arrows you may find in an 8* and would be worth a look.

Stone 2
4.3 - Good - Only if price is your main criterion - with angles on the steep side, its going to show alot of that body colour - but you may like it as a fancy colour but i dont think its going to forfill your ''sparkly'' criterior - and with medium flouresance - i would deffinatly check how the diamond looks in lots of lighting conditions, especially daylight to make sure it doesnt look milky/cloudy

Stone 3
1.6 - Excellent within TIC range, looks to be an ok stone - unless you are bothered by the low colour - it could look quite yellow, and i dont know how much the lower cut and polish rating will effect the look of the diamond.

Possibly the best option for you is to have the stones sent to an appraiser to see them in person.


a final possibility is maybe one you havent considered.
keep the ring you have for now. And buy another ring and a smaller diamond, from a company that has a lifetime trade up policy, that will allow you to buy an excellently cut stone that will be as well cut as your friends 8* and then save up for the diamond that will fit the ring you have chosen - that way you dont have to compromise on the cut of the stone, and gives a much wider choice on the market. As i feel you may be digging yourself into a hole you dont need to be in...when a slightly different route will get you where you want to be.

like drinking guiness - good things come to those who wait

 

[Raivyn]

Thanks for the post and your feedback! I was especially interested in others opinions on the stones I listed. I know they aren''t anything to get excited over, but like you mentioned, a 1.5+ for that price is a challenge to say the least. I know that if I increase my budget I''ll have an easier time finding what I''m looking for, but I''m not really willing to increase it since I''m not a jewelry person at heart. At the same time, I want to find a stone so I can wear my ring and frankly, I''m tired of shopping. I went throughout our entire engagement w/o an engagement ring while shopping for the right diamond, and it was cumbersome explaining that to the people who were rude enough to ask, "Where''s your engagement ring?" But that''s whole different story!

Anyways, about the diamonds, the ring I have originally had an M color stone in it, and I really liked it. I''ve noticed that I am more particular to differences in cut than I am in color, hence why I keep looking in the lower color ranges. I like sparkle, but not necessarily white sparkle.

Based on just what I''ve seen online and your suggestions, I''m inclined to pick Stone #1 primarily because of GOG''s trade-in policy (great idea!). You never know what the future will bring!

Thanks again!!

 

[Ellen]

Date: 1/29/2008 2:19:24 PM
Author: Raivyn

Anyways, about the diamonds, the ring I have originally had an M color stone in it, and I really liked it. I''ve noticed that I am more particular to differences in cut than I am in color, hence why I keep looking in the lower color ranges. I like sparkle, but not necessarily white sparkle.

Based on just what I''ve seen online and your suggestions, I''m inclined to pick Stone #1 primarily because of GOG''s trade-in policy (great idea!). You never know what the future will bring!

Thanks again!!

Ok, you should ask John about it, but from what I''ve learned, my assumption from the numbers is that first stone would give off more white light, less fire. What you could ask him to do is make a video of it next to an ideal cut of same size so you can see how it performs.

And just my humble opinion, after reading this last post. If you''re wanting a nice amount of fire (which it sounds like), and you''re not a real jewelry person, this ring is probably going to be your one main, important piece. You will wear this for who knows how long. I would honestly suggest increasing the budget to get an ideal stone. I really don''t think you''d be sorry.

 

[Hera]

You may want to consider dropping down into SI2 and even I1 clarity in your price range. My SI2 is absolutely eye clean and maybe you can find an I1 with a small blemish that isn''t too noticeable. Going as low in color as S will be more noticeable than the clarity.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Hmmmm.... 1.5ct for under $5,000...I didn''t even think those exsisted...

I completely agree with Ellen. I think that you should increase your budget to get a stone that will not only make your happy in the present, but in the future as well. I understand that you are trying to find a stone to fit a settling...but perhaps you could purchase another setting, a more modest diamond, and upgrade to the 8star diamond of your dreams in the future.

I hope you''re not agreeing to a lower color to accomidate a setting...I know you said you like them--and they are nice--but they are the polar opposit of what "wow''s" you!

Just something to mull over...

 

[Raivyn]

Ellen, you''re right on about how this ring is really going to be the primary piece of jewelry I wear and own. I think I purchased a pearl necklace once about 10 years ago, and all my other jewelry has been inherited from my jewelry happy mother, and I don''t wear the jewelry that often. I have one of her diamond wedding rings, and I''d wear it except that I REALLY don''t like the style.

My concern about buying a different setting/smaller stone now is that I''ll have to go through this search again in the future. I may be more willing to spend more in the future, but honestly, I''m exhausted from this last year! It took me almost a year to pick the setting alone, and since I don''t shop for jewelry often, still having to shop for the diamond has become more of a chore than a joy, unfortunately. If you don''t like buying clothes, then going to the mall sucks, its that kind of thing. I''m sure it''s odd to find someone on this forum talking like this about diamond shopping. Trading up makes alot of sense, but since I can''t see myself looking for another stone again, I think I''d like to pick a stone and be done with it, while still balancing value and cost.

So here is a stone on WF I''ve found that looks promising:

1.775 ct J SI1
Width: 7.75mm
Length: 7.78mm
Depth: 4.78mm
AGS Cut Grade: Ideal
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Table Percentage: 56.4%
Depth Percentage: 61.5%
Crown Angle: 34.7°
Crown Depth: 15.1%
Pavilion Angle: 40.7°
Pavilion Depth: 42.8%
Flourescence: neg

It''s alot more than I originally wanted to spend. What are some thoughts on this particular stone? Other than color, how would this particular stone compare to my original Stone #3?

Thanks again!!

 

[Ellen]

Raivyn, I totally understand you being ready to get this over with, for a couple reasons. One, you''re not a die hard jewelry freak, and two, you''ve been trying to find the proverbial needle in a haystack, who wouldn''t be tired?!

Now, as for this new stone, I would have to say, it looks FABULOUS. They really don''t get much better than this. I would recommend it in a heartbeat. Now, get that baby reserved before it gets snatched while you''re thinking, if you need more time!

I think you would be over the moon with this stone.

 

[clammer]

If you don''t want to go over budget I would suggest you call Wink and ask him about this stone.

J I1 AGS 0

the magnified picture looks pretty rough, but I would call and talk to him about it. You can''t beat an 1.51ct AGS0 for $5040

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Here is a 1.31, O, SI1, Ideal, AGS0, H/A. VSBF might help the face up color.

=333&src=loupe:2o8h065d]http://www.craftedbyinfinity.com/index.php?pid=63&lang=eng&sid[]=333&src=loupe

cheers--Sharon

 

[Raivyn]

Well, go figure, the WF one has already been reserved.

My search continues.

I''ll call regarding the stone Wink has. The photo does look rough, but it is within my budget, and may be a better compromise than a lower color grade. I had originally thought that the only way to stay within my budget was to look at lower color grades, but I''m more open to clarity now.

Thanks all for the suggestions again! Please feel free to post if you find something that might meet my criteria - I''m sooo tired of searching!

 

[Ellen]

Well shoot!

Ok, give Wink a call. Meanwhile, another poster who''s been looking was in touch with WF and they are getting a new shipment of stones in a week. Call them and ask for Lesley. I have worked with her a lot, she''s really nice. Explain your situation, and ask her to look out for something in the new batch for you. It helps if you let someone else work for you, and that''s what they are there for.

 

[FacetFire]

I spoke to Wink about that stones a few months ago, and was really tempted by it. The inclusion sounds clear enough to not be obvious at first. However, a few months ago, he already had several people interested in the stone, so here''s crossing my fingers in hopes that it is still available for you! It sounds like a steal!

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 1/30/2008 10:13:54 AM
Author: FacetFire
I spoke to Wink about that stones a few months ago, and was really tempted by it. The inclusion sounds clear enough to not be obvious at first. However, a few months ago, he already had several people interested in the stone, so here''s crossing my fingers in hopes that it is still available for you! It sounds like a steal!

It was. It left for Canada yesterday and there were two backup buyers for it. It was already in a happy home once, then traded back in for a slightly larger gem. It did show a little rough in the approximateely 15x picture, but was nice and eye clean except at very close examination.

Those stones do exist, but they are hard to find, especially cut like Paul Antwerp cuts them. He wrote an interesting post here about his experience in buying a parcel of rough and cutting it and loosing 3% on the parcel. Perhaps one of the search mavins can find it, it was fascinating reading!

Wink

 

[Raivyn]

It left yesterday? Geez! Finding my diamond is starting to feel like trying to snag a $99 computer at WalMart on Black Friday! I didn''t realize I had to be so quick on the draw!

You know, given that this is likely the only diamond purchase I will have in a long time, plus the fact that its for my only main piece of jewelry, I''m going to have faith that the stone meant for me, given what I''m looking for and what I want to spend, will find me when God and the universe is ready for me to have it. I still feel tired from the search, but I have some renewed energy that the right stone is out there, and the timing (i.e. it didn''t *just* leave/get sold) will happen for me.

Can I share a quick story about my wedding day? *read no further if the answer is "no"*

I live in SoCal where the weather is perfect 98.5% of the year. We brag about our weather, we laugh at the blizzards happening in other parts of the U.S. Shorts and the beach during Christmas is not unusual, and I''ll even turn on my AC in February. Having lived here my entire life, I had planned our January wedding feeling pretty confident the weather would be just as spectacular as it *almost* always is. I even hired this fantastic photographer to take photos on the beach after the ceremony Our colors were chocolate brown and pink with some gold thrown in, and after alot of searching, I found the perfect chocolate brown bridesmaid dresses with pink sashes, chocolate brown tuxedos, and absolutely stunning pink and yellow roses to tie all the colors together. Everything was set for a sunny, beautiful wedding day.

Sure enough, on my wedding day, it not only rained, but a minor typhoon seemed to engulf the whole city. From my hotel suite, I saw palm trees bending down from the force of the wind. My heart sank as on my way to the hair salon, I passed TV news crews outside reporting not just that its raining (yes, rain makes it on the news here), but that the level of rain was HISTORICALLY unusual and out of the ordinary. Nevermind that the weather was perfect two days prior! Beach pictures were obviously not going to happen unless I wanted my bridal party to look like wet rats in their brown and pink dresses.

Discouraged, but determined to make the best of my wedding day, I continued onto Bloomingdales to have my makeup done. I was strangely able to stay calm and in good spirits despite knowing that the beach wedding photos I had dreamed about were literally out of the picture. Always practical (going to my wedding afterall), I asked the make-up artist if Bloomingdales sells umbrellas.

Sure enough, the only umbrellas they had where chocolate brown and pink, and they happened to match my bridesmaid dresses perfectly.

'');" alt="Insert smilie

" src="http://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/36.gif" align="absMiddle border=0">My emotions jumped from shock to elation when the manager brought these umbrellas to me. And yes, there were just enough umbrellas for my wedding party (I needed 6 - they had 8, go figure!). I called several of my bridesmaids on the way back to the hotel because I couldn''t wait to share with them that the rain was fine because we had UMBRELLAS!!!! Even our photographer commented in a bewildered voice that what are the chances that there is torrential rain on my wedding day, and the only umbrellas the store had were the perfect color for my wedding.

These umbrellas are one of my most favorite things about that day, and its quite true when they say it will all work out in the end.

Thanks to all for letting me share this memory, and of course for your suggestions for my diamond search. I certainly respect and listen to all of your advice, and will keep them in mind as I press on!

Wink - if that diamond happens to find its way back to you again, I''d love to see it. Any other finds that you come across would be awesome!!

I''ll also follow up with Leslie at WF about the new shipment of stones. My stone will find me.

 

[Ellen]

Raivyn, what a great story! I am a BIG believer in, everything happens for a reason, and it all works out in the end.

I''m glad to hear you feel a bit renewed in your search. Don''t stress, this should be fun, and it WILL find you. And Lesley can help make that happen. I can''t wait to see what you end up with!

 

[Raivyn]

Thanks again, Ellen!!

I am mildly obsessed with my diamond hunt today. What are opinions on these two?

1.58ct E I1
Width: 7.48mm
Length: 7.52mm
Depth: 4.62mm
AGS Cut Grade: Ideal
Polish: Ideal?
Symmetry: Ideal?
Table Percentage: 54.4%
Depth Percentage: 61.6%
Crown Angle: 34.1°
Crown Depth: 15.4%
Pavilion Angle: 40.8°
Pavilion Depth: 43.1%
Flourescence: Neg

Or:

1.65ct J VS2
Width: 7.59mm
Length: 7.58mm
Depth: 4.74mm
AGS Cut Grade: Ideal
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Table Percentage: 53.00%
Depth Percentage: 62.5%
Crown Angle: 33.5°
Crown Depth: 16.6%
Pavilion Angle: 40.2°
Pavilion Depth: 43.00%
Flourescence: None

I don''t know how eye clean the I1 is. I would have to call and find out.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

J VS2 looks good! I just couldn''t do I1 for an e-ring, personally.

I have to ask you, though, how did you end up with a setting that takes a 1.5 ct. stone when you were budgeting for a $5000 stone?

 

[Raivyn]

The ring chose me, really. Like I said earlier, I''m not a jewelry shopper, and my FI had the bright idea that I should go out and see what I like. As we were shopping, I kept gravitating towards rings that had yellow diamonds and a WG/YG combo with large center stones (and the gawdier, the better, strangely enough). The jeweler we were working with eventually designed the ring I got, and in terms of proportion, a center stone of about 7.5mm looked best on the ring and my finger. It originally had an S center stone, but it has a halo of yellow diamonds, so the overall effect is unique and very much "me". I know the ring works with a lower color grade, and since lower colors tend to = lower price, a $5,000 budget seemed reasonable.

I have the e-ring now with a very yellow CZ in it just so I could have it for the wedding. It was the jeweler''s idea to put the super yellow CZ knowing that I was going to change to a natural diamond eventually. I thought it was an inexpensive way for me to enjoy my ring while leisurely shopping for my perfect stone. I didn''t think much of it, but because the center stone is SO yellow, it gets ALOT of attention. I had been engaged for over a year, and I didn''t wear a ring until a week before the wedding. Most of my friends didn''t see it until my bachelorette party. All my g/fs made such a huge deal over it, "Oh my gosh, is that your ring??? I LOVE the stone, a yellow diamond? WOW!!" And frankly, I was too stunned by all the attention to correct them (and yes, I did like the attention at the time). But now I''m uncomfortable with the attention because I get it from random people. I''ll be at a store, "Oh my gosh, look at your ring!" At the airport, people are looking at it. It''s flattering, but its made me very self-conscious of the fact that in my heart, I really want a natural stone in this ring.

 

[marmad]

As a longtime lurker, I thought I would finally venture in to say Hi. I have always followed the threads with interest and have learned from so many of you. I would also like to comment that I received the pendant yesterday that Wink made from the I1 J diamond that I purchased from him several weeks ago. It is absolutely stunning, eye-clean, white and an incredible bargain. I am so pleased and would recommend him highly.

He had at one time a fabulous large M stone, that I also missed, which changed my mindset towards lower colors when I finally did find a diamond for my e-ring upgrade. A lower colour with a higher clarity enabled a larger diamond for my smaller budget.

In terms of clarity when I see the Pendant, a trusted vendor, where “cut is king” is definitely the way to go when you want to maximize funds. Good luck with your search. I saw a picture of your setting and when you do find your diamond the ring will be beautiful. Wink is now on the hunt for new diamond studs for me. Patient man that he is.

I believe Ellen is correct things “happen for a reason” and you are also correct in that your stone will find you.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 1/29/2008 3:41:23 PM
Author: heraanderson
You may want to consider dropping down into SI2 and even I1 clarity in your price range. My SI2 is absolutely eye clean and maybe you can find an I1 with a small blemish that isn''t too noticeable. Going as low in color as S will be more noticeable than the clarity.

I absolutely agree with this poster, just from my own recent experience. I haven''t purchased yet, so i''m afraid I can''t post pics to bear witness. But I am looking into getting a J I1 stone from GOG. I never in my wildest diamond dreams thought I''d go as *low* in both colour and clarity, but after Jon made a video for me comparing the stone to others in G-H colour and higher clarity, I have no doubts, especially in the proof that cut is king!. I could barely make out the inclusion, and I was trying! I even had Jon point out where it was so I could look out for it in the vid. I still haven''t made up my mind, as the stone is kinda outta my original budget, but a link should probably be on the GOG site if you''d like to see what I''m referring to. Under video, "nataliaPOH".
Personaly, I also prefer the "warmer" sparkles that come off a *lower* colour stone, I think they represent great value.

So thats my 2c

I think you should definately try to consider a lower clarity grade, then perhaps you could move slightly higher on colour?
Happy hunting and I hope your luck improves soon!

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 2/2/2008 2:43:16 AM
Author: marmad
As a longtime lurker, I thought I would finally venture in to say Hi. I have always followed the threads with interest and have learned from so many of you. I would also like to comment that I received the pendant yesterday that Wink made from the I1 J diamond that I purchased from him several weeks ago. It is absolutely stunning, eye-clean, white and an incredible bargain. I am so pleased and would recommend him highly.


He had at one time a fabulous large M stone, that I also missed, which changed my mindset towards lower colors when I finally did find a diamond for my e-ring upgrade. A lower colour with a higher clarity enabled a larger diamond for my smaller budget.


In terms of clarity when I see the Pendant, a trusted vendor, where “cut is king” is definitely the way to go when you want to maximize funds. Good luck with your search. I saw a picture of your setting and when you do find your diamond the ring will be beautiful. Wink is now on the hunt for new diamond studs for me. Patient man that he is.


I believe Ellen is correct things “happen for a reason” and you are also correct in that your stone will find you.

Thank you for your kind words! It is very easy to be patient with someone who calls up, says "I want this!" and sends me money.

Feeling great about being able to so easily help you and even more wonderful when I find out how much you enjoyed what I sent you is a much better description of my feelings than patience. I look forward to working with you more and thank you again for your kindness in posting here!

Wink