Which websites offer better value than bluenile.com?

[celery911]

I am currently looking for a round, certified (I''ve been using GIA, but I guess I''m open to any reliable certification) diamond for an engagement ring in the 1.70-2.00ct range. After visiting A LOT of different brick and mortar as well as online stores, the best combination of selection and value I''ve come across is Bluenile.com. Can anyone please suggest alternative options (brick and mortar stores, pawn shops, chain stores, online companies) that offer better value? Place where I can get the most bang for my dollar holding all traits of a diamond constant.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/24/2009 5:54:11 AM
Author:celery911
I am currently looking for a round, certified (I've been using GIA, but I guess I'm open to any reliable certification) diamond for an engagement ring in the 1.70-2.00ct range. After visiting A LOT of different brick and mortar as well as online stores, the best combination of selection and value I've come across is Bluenile.com. Can anyone please suggest alternative options (brick and mortar stores, pawn shops, chain stores, online companies) that offer better value? Place where I can get the most bang for my dollar holding all traits of a diamond constant.

Welcome!

The other high ranking grading lab is AGS, so you can include these diamonds in your search. BN are competitively priced, the only drawback is that they do not offer images that many of us want to properly judge a diamond such as Idealscope, also many of their diamonds are not in house. However they do have a solid reputation.

You can explore these websites which belong to other trusted PS vendors.

www.goodoldgold.com

www.jamesallen.com

www.highperformancediamonds.com

www.exceldiamonds.com

www.whiteflash.com

www.niceice.com

All these vendors sell top quality cut round diamonds which are in house and have the cut analysis done for you.

As to bang for the buck, if the all important cut quality is there then that will take care of the beauty aspect of the diamond, you could consider GIA/ AGS graded G to H colour, or even I or J if needed to hit the desired size for the budget. Clarity, look at VS2 to SI2 clarity graded as above, the trick with SI clarities is to make your expectations clear to the vendor you are working with what those are. For example, if you don't want to see any visible inclusions at close scrutiny from any angle, make sure you let the vendor know that so you are both on the same page.

If you give us an idea of your budget for the diamond, we could look for some diamonds that might suit you?

 

[celery911]

Thanks for the list of websites, I''ll make sure to check them out.

My budget is $15k-16k or less. Based on GIA grading, I''m looking for:
1.70-2.00ct,
Excellent cut(i''ve been told not to skimp on this since fire is important to me),
Color D-F (I''ve been told that G is fine, but I like the idea of going colorless. when looking at diamonds either against each other or individually i have no problems judging the colors given they are the same cut)
Clarity: SI1 (no visible inclusions without magnification under close scrutiny from any angle.)
Polish: VG or better
Symmetry: VG or better
Florescence: none to medium as long as it''s blue flr

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/24/2009 6:35:37 AM
Author: celery911

Thanks for the list of websites, I''ll make sure to check them out.

My budget is $15k-16k or less. Based on GIA grading, I''m looking for:
1.70-2.00ct,
Excellent cut(i''ve been told not to skimp on this since fire is important to me),
Color D-F (I''ve been told that G is fine, but I like the idea of going colorless. when looking at diamonds either against each other or individually i have no problems judging the colors given they are the same cut)
Clarity: SI1 (no visible inclusions without magnification under close scrutiny from any angle.)
Polish: VG or better
Symmetry: VG or better
Florescence: none to medium as long as it''s blue flr

It might be a bit of a challenge to find that size for the budget with your specs, I did add G colour to the search ( GIA/ AGS graded) so maybe you might consider this grade if needed, or H?

Here is a diamond I found of G colour which you could look at.

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-signature-ideal-cut-g-color-si1-clarity_LD01372822

 

[celery911]

What are your thoughts on the following three diamonds? The first two are said to be eye clean, but I''m still waiting to hear back about the last one. I realize the last one is not excellent cut, but I''m tempted because it offers the 8mm diameter usually found in 2.0carats.

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-f-color-si1-clarity_LD01475551#grading_report

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-f-color-si1-clarity_LD01487957

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-very-good-cut-f-color-si1-clarity_LD01487562

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/24/2009 7:01:52 AM
Author: celery911
What are your thoughts on the following three diamonds? The first two are said to be eye clean, but I'm still waiting to hear back about the last one. I realize the last one is not excellent cut, but I'm tempted because it offers the 8mm diameter usually found in 2.0carats.

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-f-color-si1-clarity_LD01475551#grading_report

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-f-color-si1-clarity_LD01487957

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-very-good-cut-f-color-si1-clarity_LD01487562

The first is worth considering, check that the cloud inclusion isn't affecting brilliance - this is rare in SI1 but best to check.

The second is harder to call as the angles are hitting what we call steep deep range - however as GIA round the numbers we have no way of knowing without detailed measurements or an Idealscope image whether they are rounded steeper and might result in light leakage, or shallower where the diamond could be perfectly fine. If you do consider this one, again check the cloud inclusion, also the diameter measurement isn't as tight as I like to see but it is still within reasonable tolerance if you are not looking for a top cut diamond.

The third is a shallow diamond, yes you will get extra spread due to the shallow depth but this might be at the expense of light return. It notes a very thin part of the girdle so you would need to check that it isn't a potential durability issue. Again as BN don't offer IS images we can only guess if there are any negatives, and if so the extent of them. It could be a very bright diamond but as you say you like fire, this combo isn't likely to give you much as this can be the effect of shallower angled and depthed larger tabled diamonds.

 

[stone-cold11]

#1 looks best from the data,
#2 is the worst of the lot but not by much.
#3 a little iffy because of the crown angle and shallow depth,

Best to be able to see an IS of #2 and #3 if your are considering them, but #1 looks like a safe bet.

My 2 cts.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/24/2009 7:22:32 AM
Author: Stone-cold11
#1 looks best from the data,
#2 a little iffy because of the crown angle and shallow depth,
#3 is the worst of the lot but not by much.

Best to be able to see an IS of #2 and #3 if your are considering them, but #1 looks like a safe bet.

My 2 cts.

These are from BN who do not offer Idealscope images. Do you mean the third diamond has a shallow depth? The depth of the second diamond is not shallow at 62.1%.

Ok added the edit.

"#1 looks best from the data," - agreed.

#2 is the worst of the lot but not by much."

This diamond might be fine depending on the actual angles which of course we don't know, it is borderline steep deep which depending on the accurate angles may show leakage or not be a problem. Idealscope images are needed but as the diamonds are with BN we cannot get them.

#3 a little iffy because of the crown angle and shallow depth,"

This diamond has a shallow depth and large table, could be a bright diamond but as the original poster says he prefers fire, then this diamond is not likely to provide it.

Best to be able to see an IS of #2 and #3 if your are considering them, but #1 looks like a safe bet."

My 2 cts.

 

[celery911]

Date: 1/24/2009 7:01:52 AM
Author: celery911
What are your thoughts on the following three diamonds? The first two are said to be eye clean, but I''m still waiting to hear back about the last one. I realize the last one is not excellent cut, but I''m tempted because it offers the 8mm diameter usually found in 2.0carats.

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-f-color-si1-clarity_LD01475551#grading_report

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-f-color-si1-clarity_LD01487957

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-very-good-cut-f-color-si1-clarity_LD01487562

Two questions:

1. I keep hearing about idealscope images. Based on other posts, I can assume that some dealers offer ideascope images of their diamonds. I am buying through Bluenile.com and they don''t offer idealscope images. Once I purchase the diamonds, where can I go to have an ideascope image taken? If I do choose Bluenile, I''m considering buying the 1st and 3rd diamond so I can compare them in person and just return the one I don''t want.

2. How useful are the HCA calculators offered at the below link? I entered the respective data for the three diamonds and got the following scores:
diamond 1 = 1.0
diamond 2 = 2.4
diamond 3 = 1.2

Based on this grading, diamond 3 seems better than what''s predicted by it''s GIA VG cut grade. I know that diamond 1 is the safest bet based on the data provided by Bluenile, but I feel like I''m looking for excuses to buy diamond 3 because of larger diameter.

http://www.ideal-scope.com/hca.asp

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/24/2009 3:52:37 PM
Author: celery911

Date: 1/24/2009 7:01:52 AM
Author: celery911
What are your thoughts on the following three diamonds? The first two are said to be eye clean, but I'm still waiting to hear back about the last one. I realize the last one is not excellent cut, but I'm tempted because it offers the 8mm diameter usually found in 2.0carats.

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-f-color-si1-clarity_LD01475551#grading_report

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-f-color-si1-clarity_LD01487957

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-very-good-cut-f-color-si1-clarity_LD01487562

Two questions:

1. I keep hearing about idealscope images. Based on other posts, I can assume that some dealers offer ideascope images of their diamonds. I am buying through Bluenile.com and they don't offer idealscope images. Once I purchase the diamonds, where can I go to have an ideascope image taken? If I do choose Bluenile, I'm considering buying the 1st and 3rd diamond so I can compare them in person and just return the one I don't want.

2. How useful are the HCA calculators offered at the below link? I entered the respective data for the three diamonds and got the following scores:
diamond 1 = 1.0
diamond 2 = 2.4
diamond 3 = 1.2

Based on this grading, diamond 3 seems better than what's predicted by it's GIA VG cut grade. I know that diamond 1 is the safest bet based on the data provided by Bluenile, but I feel like I'm looking for excuses to buy diamond 3 because of larger diameter.

http://www.ideal-scope.com/hca.asp

What you can do is to order an Idealscope for $25 and use it yourself to evaluate these diamonds, they are very straightforward to use, here is the link you can use to order if the ideal appeals to you.

http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_zoom_item.asp?Id=2&ShowAdd=Y

Here is a chart you can use to interpret the images.

http://www.ideal-scope.com/using_reference_chart.asp

The HCA isn't used to select diamonds but as an elimination tool, basically the aim is to score below 2, then such diamonds are considered a ' pass pending further evaluation,' this is done with Idealscope images and various other methods, but IS are very useful. As I mentioned before, the first diamond shows the most promise, the second is borderline steep deep but as the angles are rounded it might not be an issue ( Idealscope will show if it is or not by revealing any leakage) and diamond three is a shallower combo which the HCA favours. Also the very thin girdle will likely be the reason for the VG cut grade and as I said before, you would need to check carefully that the very thin part of the girdle was not a potential durability issue - apparently this isn't always the case if the very thin part is only in the microns in a small non vulnerable area, but you do need to check carefully. I know the spread is greater with this diamond, but the thing is you say fire is important to you, as I said previously this proportion combo is not the best to produce fiery light return.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

You don''t want a very thin girdle. I''d rule that one (#3) out. That is why it is considered "very good" and not excellent.

 

[celery911]

Lorelei,
Without additional information, which would you say is the better buy? should i pay up for the better cut while sacrificing color on the diamond you suggested or diamond #1 from the list of diamonds I submitted? please include price as a influencing variable since it is a very real world constraint.



http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-signature-ideal-cut-g-color-si1-clarity_LD01372822

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 1/24/2009 4:45:07 PM
Author: celery911
Lorelei,

Without additional information, which would you say is the better buy? should i pay up for the better cut while sacrificing color on the diamond you suggested or diamond #1 from the list of diamonds I submitted? please include price as a influencing variable since it is a very real world constraint.




http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-signature-ideal-cut-g-color-si1-clarity_LD01372822

As everyone has said #1 is the best option of the ones you listed. The one Lorelei listed is a great too, the color won't be an issue, promise. Most of the population would never be able to tell a well graded G from an F, especially once mounted and in real life (as opposed to on a white sheet of paper or something).

If money is a major issue you could get 1 and Lorelei's and compare in person with your eyes. If you like 1 better than Lorelei's keep it and pocket the difference! But if you just need to buy 1 right now, I would spring for Lorelei's, it is more likely to be the nicer stone.


ETA: Did you buy/reserve #1 from your list? If not this discussion is a mute point because it's not available anymore.

 

[celery911]

Yeah, diamond #1 is on hold for me right now that''s why it''s listed as unavailable.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/24/2009 4:47:16 PM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 1/24/2009 4:45:07 PM
Author: celery911
Lorelei,

Without additional information, which would you say is the better buy? should i pay up for the better cut while sacrificing color on the diamond you suggested or diamond #1 from the list of diamonds I submitted? please include price as a influencing variable since it is a very real world constraint.




http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-signature-ideal-cut-g-color-si1-clarity_LD01372822

As everyone has said #1 is the best option of the ones you listed. The one Lorelei listed is a great too, the color won''t be an issue, promise. Most of the population would never be able to tell a well graded G from an F, especially once mounted and in real life (as opposed to on a white sheet of paper or something).

If money is a major issue you could get 1 and Lorelei''s and compare in person with your eyes. If you like 1 better than Lorelei''s keep it and pocket the difference! But if you just need to buy 1 right now, I would spring for Lorelei''s, it is more likely to be the nicer stone.


ETA: Did you buy/reserve #1 from your list? If not this discussion is a mute point because it''s not available anymore.

Neat summed it up nicely!!

Also if you do decide to go for the diamond I linked, just check with BN if the cloud inclusion is visible or affecting brilliance - this is extremely rare in SI1 clarity but best to check.

 

[celery911]

Hello, thanks for all the help so far, I promise this should be my last questions at least until I''m able to see the diamonds in person.


http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-f-color-si1-clarity_LD01475551#grading_report

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-very-good-cut-f-color-si1-clarity_LD01487562

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-signature-ideal-cut-g-color-si1-clarity_LD01372822

I''m definately going to order diamond #1 one of the others for comparison. I''ll just return the one i like less. Link #1 and #3 are both excellent cuts. What makes BN decide to label diamond #3 a "signature cut" while #1 is only "ideal"? Is it the crown height?

Secondly, you guys warned me about the thin girdle causing durability issues with the diamond in link #2. Is there an idealscope type tool that will allow me to determine whether or not the girdle thickness is a problem or am I supposed to be able to eyeball it and use common sense? if it''s the later, I probably wont bother cause my common sense is not trust worthy .

THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL YOUR HELP!!!!

 

[John P]

Date: 1/25/2009 10:56:33 PM
Author: celery911

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-f-color-si1-clarity_LD01475551#grading_report

The 'eye-clean' level of all these SI1s is something to consider. This one has 'additional clouds not shown' which typically means they're non-factors, but the cloud that is shown does not seem significant enough to be the grade-setter by itself unless it's particularly dense and visible. The feather is listed second but at the girdle & paired with the crystal it's enough of a question to involve a gemologist who can explain what's going on in the stone. One other thing to check is the 75% lower halves. GIA rounds that number and if it is 73, paired with the 40.6 pavilion, that is a bit short for optimum brightness.

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-very-good-cut-f-color-si1-clarity_LD01487562

You mentioned you want a lot of fire. With the 60% table - resulting in only 13% crown height - this stone will not deliver that. The VTN girdle may be only one tiny spot that can be worked-around in setting and so is no concern, but you'll need a microscopic analysis (not ideal-scope) to determine that. Either way, if fire is what you want this is not your best choice.

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-signature-ideal-cut-g-color-si1-clarity_LD01372822

For cut quality this is the best bet 'by the numbers' (which admittedly give limited info). No way to know cut precision & consistency without a reflector image but the table/ca-pa/lower half combo is nice, at 15.5% the crown height and table are good for the balance of fire.

As I said at the top, I'd really investigate the 'eye-clean' levels. That will set the price-point more than the details of cut we talk about here. Diamond manufacturers and dealers don't price things arbitrarily; it will reflect the overall look as well as the package of purchase benefits the dealer offers.

 

[Lorelei]

GREAT post Sir John!!

There you have it Celery from one of the experts!

 

[celery911]

Lorelei,

I was just talking to a friend who I haven''t seen in a while. I told her about the stones I''d been looking at and told her that I was close to buying two of them. She was floored that I was looking only at SI1. She thinks that I''m best to stay in the VS range since the clarity falloff among eye clean diamonds is by the most significant between VS and SI. She claims that once you get into VS vs VVS it becomes more art than science, but that the difference between VS and SI is huge - that I shouldn''t mess around with it because even if the diamond is eye clean, the additional inclusions can have a serious effect on the brilliance and look of the diamond. Additionally, she points out that if I were an expert or if I could compare hundreds of diamonds, then maybe I could find that perfect SI1, but since I''m looking online and will only compare 2-3 diamonds against each other at most, I should stick with VS2. In summary, she thinks I should man up and accept that my budget ($15k) means a smaller diamond (1.5-1.6 ct) and maybe G color, but that I absolutely must stick with an excellent cut and VS2 clarity.

Think she''s right on this? I was actually pretty excited about buying an eye clean SI1, but after looking at some GIA reports and comparing VVS2''s to VS2''s to SI1''s I can see her point. Getting to the point of mind clean is taking longer than expected!!!!!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/26/2009 3:39:31 PM
Author: celery911
Lorelei,

I was just talking to a friend who I haven't seen in a while. I told her about the stones I'd been looking at and told her that I was close to buying two of them. She was floored that I was looking only at SI1. She thinks that I'm best to stay in the VS range since the clarity falloff among eye clean diamonds is by the most significant between VS and SI. She claims that once you get into VS vs VVS it becomes more art than science, but that the difference between VS and SI is huge - that I shouldn't mess around with it because even if the diamond is eye clean, the additional inclusions can have a serious effect on the brilliance and look of the diamond. Additionally, she points out that if I were an expert or if I could compare hundreds of diamonds, then maybe I could find that perfect SI1, but since I'm looking online and will only compare 2-3 diamonds against each other at most, I should stick with VS2. In summary, she thinks I should man up and accept that my budget ($15k) means a smaller diamond (1.5-1.6 ct) and maybe G color, but that I absolutely must stick with an excellent cut and VS2 clarity.

Think she's right on this? I was actually pretty excited about buying an eye clean SI1, but after looking at some GIA reports and comparing VVS2's to VS2's to SI1's I can see her point. Getting to the point of mind clean is taking longer than expected!!!!!

Absolutely not true in the majority of cases. For the purposes of this post I refer to GIA or AGS lab graded diamonds. There are many sizeable and completely eyeclean SI clarity diamonds out there as many of our members can attest. SI clarities aren't created equal so it is important for you and the vendor to be on the same page to make sure a particular diamond meets your expectations in this area, but SI clarities can be bought with great success! There has been advice commonly given for a long time now that only VS or better is suitable for an e-ring diamond, but more and more shoppers are catching on to SI clarity grades and what a good buy they can be if eyeclean. Maybe your friend is one of those people who need VS in order for the diamond to be ' mind clean' to them which is perfectly fine, but the diamond isn't for her!!

So I disagree with this friend, I have been on PS a long time now and have seen many many successful SI purchases, so don't let her preconceived notions put you off. As to inclusions affecting brilliance, rarely grade making clouds in an SI2 clarity can cause dulling of the diamond ( not a problem in "clouds not shown" in the comments section of a report) so it is best to check in these cases. But even if SI inclusions did affect brilliance and the diamond was eyeclean, it would need sophisticated measuring equipment to detect it, and this would be highly unlikely to be visible to the human eye.

Also don't use the plotting diagram of a grading report to judge the clarity or eyecleanliness of a diamond as the plots aren't representative of how the diamond will look.

So if you want to go for SI clarity and the diamond is verified eyeclean to your standards, go right ahead and enjoy the savings, especially as you want a larger diamond for the money, SI can be a great way to get extra size for the money. Plus if you do shoot for SI and this friend sees the ring and asks, tell her it is VS clarity - I bet she won't know any different!