Which OEC???

[camomof4]

Hi all!

Mostly thanks to this forum, I've fallen in love with OECs and I'm contemplating switching my cushion cut center stone to an OEC. I'm looking in the 2.5-3 carat range, where there aren't a ton to choose from. At the moment I'm considering these two diamonds.

1)
2.75 carat J VS1
VG/G
62 d 52 t
no flr, large culet
8.84 x 8.69 x 5.45


2)
3.04 carat J VS2
G/G
67 d 51 t
no flr, large culet
8.83 x 9.06 x 5.99

Stone 2 is considerably more expensive (about $8K more).

Image, ASET and idealscope for diamond #1 (the 2.75 carat) are below. Vendor says #1 is gorgeous. Still waiting on the images for #2. Obviously can't really meaningfully compare them until I have the images. However, is there a reason to reject either out of hand?

It seems to me that #2 is rather deep, making the visual difference between the 2.75 and 3 carats less than it would normally be. And they're the same color with the smaller stone at a higher clarity. I know you pay a premium when you hit the 3 carat mark, but still - $8K seems like a big jump for maybe not getting a lot more "bang", if you will.

Any thoughts on either stone are appreciated.

 

[FightGravity]

Just on the specs, I would go with #1. I don't think you will see the a difference in size or clarity or color, and it seems crazy (to me) to pay 8K more for what faces up essentially the same.

But I'd have to see pics of #2 to say for sure!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The light return is good on #1, but to be honest, it is pretty but I have seen better facet patterns. This is not something to rush. Even if it takes weeks or months, it is worth waiting for a stone that you absolutely love.

I like this one better than #1 and it has a better diameter than both of the ones above. The only thing I would want to do is send it to get girdle rehab which is not usually expensive. It wouldn't be necessary if you were setting it in a halo or bezel, though.

http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/2-93ct-old-european-cut-diamond-ags-j-vs1/

 

[sugarski]

The light return is good on #1, but to be honest, it is pretty but I have seen better facet patterns. This is not something to rush. Even if it takes weeks or months, it is worth waiting for a stone that you absolutely love.

I like this one better than #1 and it has a better diameter than both of the ones above. The only thing I would want to do is send it to get girdle rehab which is not usually expensive. It wouldn't be necessary if you were setting it in a halo or bezel, though.

http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/2-93ct-old-european-cut-diamond-ags-j-vs1/

2nd everything DS said. That 2.93 is droolworthy!

 

[camomof4]

Thank you so much - this is so very helpful! I'm relatively new to old cuts so I am so thankful for the input.

The last time I was searching for a diamond I was in NYC so it was easy for me to see the stones before deciding. How the heck do you buy an OEC long distance?! It's so hard to tell with the older cuts especially. I know what facet patterns I like, but figuring out how a potential stone is going to look in person is so difficult. I get that I can buy one and return it if necessary, but I need to find an effective way to weed through stones as they come up without buying every one. How did you all do this?

DIamondseeker, I would love to hear more about the stone in your avatar photo. Its facet pattern looks exactly like what I'm looking for! LOVE it.

I will keep my eye on that LAD stone. (However, as an AGS J, is it probably more like a K, yes?) What are your thoughts on this JBEG transitional cut stone? Love love love the faceting. Just not sure how I would feel about the L color. (Again, so hard when not in person...)

http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-...nsitional-cut-diamond-gia-l-vvs1#.VgdQ0VUVhBc

Ideally I'm searching for J color (GIA) or higher, and to 2.5-3 carats, budget $30K or under. Thanks so much again!

 

[sugarski]

(However, as an AGS J, is it probably more like a K, yes?)

camomof4, I'm new to this stuff too so I'll let others answer your other questions. But I *can* tell you that AGS and GIA are more or less equivalent labs as far as color grading. AGS J = GIA J. It's EGL that tends to be laxer with color grading. I was confused about this myself when I bought my stone. That 2.93 is going to be plenty white, imho. HTH!

 

[GlamMosher]

DIamondseeker, I would love to hear more about the stone in your avatar photo. Its facet pattern looks exactly like what I'm looking for! LOVE it.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/2-29-i-vs1-avr-august-vintage-round-from-good-old-gold-t216188.html']https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/2-29-i-vs1-avr-august-vintage-round-from-good-old-gold-t216188.html[/URL]

Grab it before it goes!

 

[sugarski]

http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-...nsitional-cut-diamond-gia-l-vvs1#.VgdQ0VUVhBc

Ideally I'm searching for J color (GIA) or higher, and to 2.5-3 carats, budget $30K or under. Thanks so much again!

OK so I said I wasn't going to attempt to answer your other questions, but I'll just say this about the tranny: I prefer OEC faceting to tranny faceting. That said, this IS a beautiful tranny for sure BUT I personally feel like VVS1 is overkill and I just don't need, or want to pay a premium for, that level of clarity. I tend to zoom in on VS2 and eye-clean SI1 stones. Of course that's just me. Good luck, and I'm very interested to see what you end up deciding!

 

[sugarski]

DIamondseeker, I would love to hear more about the stone in your avatar photo. Its facet pattern looks exactly like what I'm looking for! LOVE it.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/2-29-i-vs1-avr-august-vintage-round-from-good-old-gold-t216188.html']https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/2-29-i-vs1-avr-august-vintage-round-from-good-old-gold-t216188.html[/URL]

Grab it before it goes!

Oh wow!!! That really looks like a match made in heaven!

 

[camomof4]

DIamondseeker, I would love to hear more about the stone in your avatar photo. Its facet pattern looks exactly like what I'm looking for! LOVE it.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/2-29-i-vs1-avr-august-vintage-round-from-good-old-gold-t216188.html']https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/2-29-i-vs1-avr-august-vintage-round-from-good-old-gold-t216188.html[/URL]

Grab it before it goes!

Oh wow!!! That really looks like a match made in heaven!

WOW! I am seriously going to keep that baby in mind.

 

[Sphene]

Loving the Tranny - great size

 

[camomof4]

The light return is good on #1, but to be honest, it is pretty but I have seen better facet patterns. This is not something to rush. Even if it takes weeks or months, it is worth waiting for a stone that you absolutely love.

I like this one better than #1 and it has a better diameter than both of the ones above. The only thing I would want to do is send it to get girdle rehab which is not usually expensive. It wouldn't be necessary if you were setting it in a halo or bezel, though.

http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/2-93ct-old-european-cut-diamond-ags-j-vs1/

2nd everything DS said. That 2.93 is droolworthy!

Looking at this guy a little more closely - what should I expect with "fair" symmetry in an OEC? Is it just that the stone might be off round (which this one is, you can see)? Or could that also mean the facet pattern would be off center? The former might not bother me so much, but the latter I think would.

 

[Resonance.Of.Life]

OP, if you're concerned about the OEC AGS J not being a GIA J, you can always ask the vendor to get it GIA certed and have the sale contingent on it being a GIA J. I recall OWD when I bought my 4 carat cushion, giving me a guarantee it would be GIA L at least, it ended up being a GIA K (EGL J cert).

 

[m-2-b]

DIamondseeker, I would love to hear more about the stone in your avatar photo. Its facet pattern looks exactly like what I'm looking for! LOVE it.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/2-29-i-vs1-avr-august-vintage-round-from-good-old-gold-t216188.html']https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/2-29-i-vs1-avr-august-vintage-round-from-good-old-gold-t216188.html[/URL]

Grab it before it goes!

I have seen DS'ers AVR in real life and it is a stunner!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Thanks so much for the nice comments about my diamond! It really does have a perfect facet pattern which is hard to find. If you have further questions, you are welcome to ask on the other thread.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The light return is good on #1, but to be honest, it is pretty but I have seen better facet patterns. This is not something to rush. Even if it takes weeks or months, it is worth waiting for a stone that you absolutely love.

I like this one better than #1 and it has a better diameter than both of the ones above. The only thing I would want to do is send it to get girdle rehab which is not usually expensive. It wouldn't be necessary if you were setting it in a halo or bezel, though.

http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/2-93ct-old-european-cut-diamond-ags-j-vs1/

2nd everything DS said. That 2.93 is droolworthy!

Looking at this guy a little more closely - what should I expect with "fair" symmetry in an OEC? Is it just that the stone might be off round (which this one is, you can see)? Or could that also mean the facet pattern would be off center? The former might not bother me so much, but the latter I think would.

Old cut stones almost never get very good or excellent like (well cut) newly cut ones can be. It doesn't have to mean the facet pattern is off center. It means (according to AGS) "Symmetry is the exactness of the balance and evenness of the diamond's shape and face."
She should have additional pictures linked on the stone page. With antique OEC's, I look at things like diameter, table, girdle, etc., but I know the cut grade, polish, and symmetry usually are not going to be high. Many have diameter numbers that sound out of round, but you have to look at them, because many do not visually appear out of round.

 

[camomof4]

The light return is good on #1, but to be honest, it is pretty but I have seen better facet patterns. This is not something to rush. Even if it takes weeks or months, it is worth waiting for a stone that you absolutely love.

I like this one better than #1 and it has a better diameter than both of the ones above. The only thing I would want to do is send it to get girdle rehab which is not usually expensive. It wouldn't be necessary if you were setting it in a halo or bezel, though.

http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/2-93ct-old-european-cut-diamond-ags-j-vs1/

2nd everything DS said. That 2.93 is droolworthy!

Looking at this guy a little more closely - what should I expect with "fair" symmetry in an OEC? Is it just that the stone might be off round (which this one is, you can see)? Or could that also mean the facet pattern would be off center? The former might not bother me so much, but the latter I think would.

Old cut stones almost never get very good or excellent like (well cut) newly cut ones can be. It doesn't have to mean the facet pattern is off center. It means (according to AGS) "Symmetry is the exactness of the balance and evenness of the diamond's shape and face."
She should have additional pictures linked on the stone page. With antique OEC's, I look at things like diameter, table, girdle, etc., but I know the cut grade, polish, and symmetry usually are not going to be high. Many have diameter numbers that sound out of round, but you have to look at them, because many do not visually appear out of round.

Thanks! All that really matters to me is that the diamond makes me swoon. All of these stones I'm seeing on JBEG and LAD are so out of this world gorgeous - I'm wondering can they look that lovely in real life? Or is it just good lighting?

Speaking of swooning... I checked out the other thread and I'm just loving your AVR. My trouble is that I'm upgrading through my original vendor ...

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I think the reality is that in real life viewing, the gorgeous facet patterns are not as apparent as they are in magnified photos with certain lighting simply because they are small! Of course, that is a good reason to buy a great cut one, in my opinion, so it looks as good as possible in all situations! I think with antique stones, you absolutely have to order a couple to look at. Even when I bought the AVR, I ordered about 5 to look at (not all at one time, 2-3 at a time). That helped me determine preferences so I was able to narrow down what I loved most in terms of specs (color, table size, facet patterns, etc). When I look at Grace and Erica's photos, which are great, I definitely prefer some stones over others from the magnified photos. Some may be lower color than I'd want or have some other issue that would eliminate it. Once I narrowed it down to maybe 2-3 outstanding stones, then I would send for them to compare (by putting on credit cards just to view).

I don't believe I have seen mention of what vendor you need to work with, but I am going to tell you that I would not limit my search for an OEC to one vendor unless that vendor happens to be an antique stone vendor and can access all the antique stone suppliers. You need the access to all possible stones to find a great one. If you ever change your mind and want something different, it is far easier to resell a great stone than a mediocre one. You see some for sale for a long, long time, and others (like Resonance-of-Life) sell within days or weeks if they are great stones. I would sell the old diamond myself and then have the freedom to look at multiple vendors and buy where I wanted.

 

[camomof4]

I think the reality is that in real life viewing, the gorgeous facet patterns are not as apparent as they are in magnified photos with certain lighting simply because they are small! Of course, that is a good reason to buy a great cut one, in my opinion, so it looks as good as possible in all situations! I think with antique stones, you absolutely have to order a couple to look at. Even when I bought the AVR, I ordered about 5 to look at (not all at one time, 2-3 at a time). That helped me determine preferences so I was able to narrow down what I loved most in terms of specs (color, table size, facet patterns, etc). When I look at Grace and Erica's photos, which are great, I definitely prefer some stones over others from the magnified photos. Some may be lower color than I'd want or have some other issue that would eliminate it. Once I narrowed it down to maybe 2-3 outstanding stones, then I would send for them to compare (by putting on credit cards just to view).

I don't believe I have seen mention of what vendor you need to work with, but I am going to tell you that I would not limit my search for an OEC to one vendor unless that vendor happens to be an antique stone vendor and can access all the antique stone suppliers. You need the access to all possible stones to find a great one. If you ever change your mind and want something different, it is far easier to resell a great stone than a mediocre one. You see some for sale for a long, long time, and others (like Resonance-of-Life) sell within days or weeks if they are great stones. I would sell the old diamond myself and then have the freedom to look at multiple vendors and buy where I wanted.

This is all so helpful. Thank you! It's great to talk to someone who has done this.

I've thought about ordering stones from one of the antique vendors to compare and get a sense of preferences. Because you're right, with these stones you HAVE to see them! But, do they mind if you order and then end up returning several stones? I figured they'd think I was a pain. Also was any part of you nervous having, say, $75K of diamonds in your possession at one time? I can just see one of my kids thinking they were a great new variety of hard candy and swallowing them whole or something. LOL

 

[camomof4]

Update - received a photo of stone 2 and it does look lovely. Despite its cost and depth. What do you all think of this one?

3.04 carat J VS2
G/G
67 d 51 t
no flr, large culet
8.83 x 9.06 x 5.99



I wish it wasn't so hard for me to tell from a photo if I'm going to like the stone. This one is in Europe so I'm trying to decide if it's worth having sent to look at.

 

[CravingDiamonds]

The second one hands down.

 

[camomof4]

Here's a zoom.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I really like the looks of that one, but whether I would pay to call it in just to look at it is another matter (as in the cost to see it and potentially send it back). I still think you need to see a few to know what you really love. I have even refined my references on ideal cut rounds after having a few!

How does stone #2 compare in price to the 2.93 I linked earlier? I think Love Affair Diamonds and Jewels by Grace are good places to use for price comps even if you can't buy from them. It never pays to use a trade in policy and then overpay for the upgrade diamond.

 

[dontaskme]

second is much prettier!

 

[camomof4]

I really like the looks of that one, but whether I would pay to call it in just to look at it is another matter (as in the cost to see it and potentially send it back). I still think you need to see a few to know what you really love. I have even refined my references on ideal cut rounds after having a few!

How does stone #2 compare in price to the 2.93 I linked earlier? I think Love Affair Diamonds and Jewels by Grace are good places to use for price comps even if you can't buy from them. It never pays to use a trade in policy and then overpay for the upgrade diamond.

I think the overseas vendor will send the stone to my guy so he can provide me with further photos, videos, idealscope, etc.

This stone is quite a bit more expensive ($8K) than the LAD stone. Probably due to the "over 3 carat" premium (and maybe the GIA cert)? It faces up smaller though unfortunately, because it's deep. So that's tricky. But color on the bigger stone is possibly better as it's a GIA J. No way to know for sure I guess.

 

[solgen]

Too bad diamond#2 doesn't have a pic showing it's fire. Deeper OECs can produce some nicer color IMO.

 

[camomof4]

I really like the looks of that one, but whether I would pay to call it in just to look at it is another matter (as in the cost to see it and potentially send it back). I still think you need to see a few to know what you really love. I have even refined my references on ideal cut rounds after having a few!

How does stone #2 compare in price to the 2.93 I linked earlier? I think Love Affair Diamonds and Jewels by Grace are good places to use for price comps even if you can't buy from them. It never pays to use a trade in policy and then overpay for the upgrade diamond.

Further update for price comparison purposes - Looked into it, and the LAD 2.93 also has a GIA cert. GIA color is K and the stone has a chip. That (and being shy of the 3 carat mark) could account for some of the price differential. I do love the look of that 2.93 though. Hopefully will know more about the 3.04 once vendor receives stone from overseas. I'll get some more photos, ASET, etc. and see if I think it's worth seeing in person.

DS - I agree that the more I can see in person the better! I drove up to Lang's in SF to try on some of their honkers and get a sense of my color tolerance and the proportions I like, etc. Have to say though that nothing there knocked my socks off in terms of cut. (Size was another matter! There were some serious rocks in there.) How did you get your hands on so many OECs to refine your sense of your preferences? I'm tempted to just put half of JBEG's stock on my credit card and get them all sent to me! Heehee

 

[MarionC]

I'm tempted to just put half of JBEG's stock on my credit card and get them all sent to me! Heehee

Now there's a heartwarming thought!

 

[badabling]

I really like the looks of that one, but whether I would pay to call it in just to look at it is another matter (as in the cost to see it and potentially send it back). I still think you need to see a few to know what you really love. I have even refined my references on ideal cut rounds after having a few!

How does stone #2 compare in price to the 2.93 I linked earlier? I think Love Affair Diamonds and Jewels by Grace are good places to use for price comps even if you can't buy from them. It never pays to use a trade in policy and then overpay for the upgrade diamond.

Further update for price comparison purposes - Looked into it, and the LAD 2.93 also has a GIA cert. GIA color is K and the stone has a chip. That (and being shy of the 3 carat mark) could account for some of the price differential. I do love the look of that 2.93 though. Hopefully will know more about the 3.04 once vendor receives stone from overseas. I'll get some more photos, ASET, etc. and see if I think it's worth seeing in person.

DS - I agree that the more I can see in person the better! I drove up to Lang's in SF to try on some of their honkers and get a sense of my color tolerance and the proportions I like, etc. Have to say though that nothing there knocked my socks off in terms of cut. (Size was another matter! There were some serious rocks in there.) How did you get your hands on so many OECs to refine your sense of your preferences? I'm tempted to just put half of JBEG's stock on my credit card and get them all sent to me! Heehee

Are you sure it's a GIA K? I was looking at that stone and I'm pretty sure Erica said it was a GIA J as well. You might want to confirm that with her. I didn't know it had a chip...could you tell that from the pic?

 

[camomof4]

I really like the looks of that one, but whether I would pay to call it in just to look at it is another matter (as in the cost to see it and potentially send it back). I still think you need to see a few to know what you really love. I have even refined my references on ideal cut rounds after having a few!

How does stone #2 compare in price to the 2.93 I linked earlier? I think Love Affair Diamonds and Jewels by Grace are good places to use for price comps even if you can't buy from them. It never pays to use a trade in policy and then overpay for the upgrade diamond.

Further update for price comparison purposes - Looked into it, and the LAD 2.93 also has a GIA cert. GIA color is K and the stone has a chip. That (and being shy of the 3 carat mark) could account for some of the price differential. I do love the look of that 2.93 though. Hopefully will know more about the 3.04 once vendor receives stone from overseas. I'll get some more photos, ASET, etc. and see if I think it's worth seeing in person.

DS - I agree that the more I can see in person the better! I drove up to Lang's in SF to try on some of their honkers and get a sense of my color tolerance and the proportions I like, etc. Have to say though that nothing there knocked my socks off in terms of cut. (Size was another matter! There were some serious rocks in there.) How did you get your hands on so many OECs to refine your sense of your preferences? I'm tempted to just put half of JBEG's stock on my credit card and get them all sent to me! Heehee

Are you sure it's a GIA K? I was looking at that stone and I'm pretty sure Erica said it was a GIA J as well. You might want to confirm that with her. I didn't know it had a chip...could you tell that from the pic?

The AGS report posted on LAD says the diamond has a GIA number inscribed on the girdle, so I looked up the GIA report:

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?rep...ename=GIA/Dispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

I think I'm reading that right on the chip? BUT maybe LAD polished it out? Could be! It's an absolutely gorgeous diamond! Are you thinking of going for it??