which green gemstone for an e-ring?

[enoki]

Help!

I''m in love with green gemstones and would love one for my e-ring. What would you all suggest? Pros/cons welcome too! I''ll be looking at platinum/white gold as a setting and tend to

the blue-er greens than the olivey-greens (hope that made sense). This is the ''maybe'' list:

alexandrite (current fave)
green sapphire
tourmaline

What else?

 

[ma re]

Date: 5/2/2009 3:38:42 AM
Author:enoki
Help!

I''m in love with green gemstones and would love one for my e-ring. What would you all suggest? Pros/cons welcome too! I''ll be looking at platinum/white gold as a setting and tend to

the blue-er greens than the olivey-greens (hope that made sense). This is the ''maybe'' list:

alexandrite (current fave)
green sapphire
tourmaline

What else?

Vanadium chrysoberyl
Tsavorite
Demantoid (but hard, and pricey, to find in fine qualities)
Green beryl (quite affordable and often cut in large stones)
Emerald

All except the first one are not recommended for everyday use and a lot of wear, since they''re less durable than some other stones. Tourmaline also falls into that category.

Hope this helps.

 

[enoki]

Thanks ma re!

I''ll start looking....so correct me if I misunderstood your post but are you saying that only vanadium chrysoberyl is suitable for everyday wear? And that tourmaline and emeralds are not?

 

[Pandora II]

Do you have a budget in mind as that will help steer you towards the right stones.

Alexandrite in fine quality is eyewateringly expensive. Demantoid is also in the ouch region - plus I''ve just been reading reports from Bill Larson that over 50% of the top Russian product is being heat treated which would make me a bit leery.

Green sapphire tends to be a bit on the murky side if you like brighter greens.

Tsavorite garnet is what I have as my e-ring. Garnet is fine to wear as long as you are careful and don''t want to wear it all the time - I and others like Movie Zombie who has a fabulous spessartite garnet for her e-ring, only wear our rings when we go out. Mine is kept in a box more often than not. I would be devastated if it broke and worse it would be a hard search to replace the stone with one of the same colour.

 

[ma re]

Date: 5/2/2009 4:28:20 AM
Author: enoki
Thanks ma re!

I''ll start looking....so correct me if I misunderstood your post but are you saying that only vanadium chrysoberyl is suitable for everyday wear? And that tourmaline and emeralds are not?

You understood well, that one would be the only from my list suitable for daily wear, and all from your list are acceptable except tourmaline. Chrysoberyl is actually the same as alexandrite (same mineral group), except it doesen''t change color and is a lighter shade of green than an (ideal) alexandrite.

 

[enoki]

Weeeellll...with the budget..I''ve been told I can go into the 5 figures (this is incl wedding bands) - approx 30K. How far do you think this''ll get me? With Alex''s I know this may not stretch very far. We definitely want a high quality stone (again I''m not sure if it''s too vague) and a reasonable sized stone.

Pandora II - is that the ring in your avatar? It''s absolutely breathaking and just gorgeous!! I do intend to have a look (in person) at some coloured stones just so I know what they look like in real life. My bestie tells me all the jewellers she''s spoken to say ''alexandrite isn''t v sparkly or pretty'' soo....

As for wear - for work I''d have to have it on a chain around my neck

but other times on my finger soo...maybe worn 30% of the time?

Greenwise I don''t want murky but don''t mind a ''darker'' green rather than a brighter/lighter green? I think of it as a more classic/older green than a younger green (this analogy kinda works in my head!)

Gosh I''m learning so much! I always thought emeralds were pretty hardy stones - thanks ma re!

 

[usnwife]

If I had 30k to drop on a green stone, I would buy a demantoid garnet. Thats just my $0.02.

 

[ma re]

Considering your budget, I think we can pretty much exclude green sapphire, tourmaline, vanadium chrysoberyl and green beryl. They are the more affordable choices, and with this kind of money that would get you a very (in some cases VERY) large stone. You could probably buy a green beryl the size of a fist or something, for that much

- not that there''s anything wrong with having a large stone, but one that''s over an inch long or a ring that weighs an ounce wouldn''t be very practical or comfortable to wear

Your choice of shade also eliminates green sapphire, green beryl and vanadium chrysoberyl, as they''re somewhat pastel.

What do you consider a reasonable sizes - in either milimeters or carats?

You can get a really beatiful stone considering the budget, even when talking alexandrites (from what I know even five thousand can get you a nice 1 ct stone), demantoids (a good one can probably be found for 10k per ct) or emeralds (not sure, but 10-15k per ct would probably get you a very nice stone).

Considering the fact that you still intend to wear the ring daily (even only 30% of the time), I''d advise against an emerald, garnets, tourmaline or beryl (BTW emerald is also a type of beryl), especially with such a valuable stone.

Jewellers who claim that alexandrites are not sparkly nor beautiful have obviously not seen a really good one. I agree that many are not what most people would consider beautiful, but keep in mind that a true value of alexandrite isn''t in the beauty of it''s green nor in the beauty of it''s red (or purple). Instead, that stone is mostly valued for it''s ability to change color according to lighting conditions. The more dramatic it''s change of color, the greater the disntinction between the two colors and the more pure each of them is (in terms of purity of hue), the more valuable the stone. Ideally, it should look like an emerald during the day and like a really fine amethyst (or even rhodolite) at night. Avoid stones that change to only one of these colors, or those that don''t have any of the colors mentioned.

P. S. Your "green analogy" is a very good one as more valuable stones are generally those of deeper shades of green i.e. more like forest green than a grass green, so to speak.

P. P. S. Hope you know that you should always ask for a gemological certificate for every stone that costs more than a thousand dollars or so.

 

[icekid]

I''m thinking demantoid all the way for you, especially given you want bright green. I wish I had gone with a green e-ring myself. Yum.

What kind of setting are you thinking? any ideas yet?

 

[LD]

For your budget you could get a wonderful Alexandrite and I would suggest you contact David Weinberg of www.multicolour.com He''s written many articles on Alex and can point you in the direction of a gorgeous one that meets your budget/expectations. If you search for photos I''ve posted you''ll see I have a number of Alex and I bought my 3.06ct pear shape Alex from him. Whatever you do, you need to see any Alex you like in person before making a final decision. They don''t photograph well and whilst I''d say to trust David''s judgement, you also need to see a stone to see if you love all it''s colourways. It''s remarkable how much they differ.

In terms of colour however, Alex may NOT be what you''re looking for. Some can have olivey tones (I stay away from them), others have a beautiful forest green (which I love) but some also have a grey undertone.

Alex imvho is far more exciting than a Demantoid because essentially you get two looks in one gemstone! A great Alex is fascinating to watch change colour, it''s hardy (I wear mine daily) and I can''t recommend it highly enough.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

With your budget, I would contact Richard Wise, Lembeck Gems (he has some amazing alexandrite), Palagem (through a trusted jeweller) and Multicolour (altough Dave sells all sorts of gems for all budgets, he is an expert on alexandrite and has a good eye for them).

While my favourite ring ever isn''t realy what you are looking for, I wanted to share some yummy demantoids and asscher diamond.

 

[enoki]

Ok so it seems with the budget I''ve got I''ve got quite a bit of flexibility and choice? I personally don''t want to utilize the given budget fully although Mr enoki says go for it!

With size I prolly need to try some rings and see some stones in real life to see what suits. I''ve got quite small & slim fingers so don''t want it to look too oversized/costume-y. Could change my mind once I see them though hehe. Sizewise maybe around 1-2cm? I much prefer the simpler shapes/cuts and with settings - definitely a more contemporary (current fave - claw).

ma re I''m glad you understood my analogy! I actually quite like the medium shades of green. I saw some pretty sapphires and tourmalines on wildfishgems hence the addition to the list. Can the sapphires and vanadium chrysoberyl''s come in more medium greens?

Demantoids are gorgeous but I read possibly too soft for an e-ring? Mr enoki has thrown a bit of a spanner in my research - he says if I love alex get an alex & thinks the colour change is cool. But says he did like the idea of a non-changer stone so it''s a solid color and constant - seeing as it''s an e-ring and a symbol of our love. Siiighhhh......meanwhile gemologists everywhere shudder at the use of my term ''non changer''

 

[enoki]

ohhhhh...I can see why it''s your favourite ring *still drooling*

 

[Pandora II]

With that budget, I would look at really top tsavorites and alexandrites.

Alexandrite is harder than tsavorite, but other than being careful and taking my ring off when I''m at home, I haven''t had any problems with it. Garnet doesn''t have cleavage, so if you do whack it off something it is likely to chip rather than split and you can have it recut/polished depending on the damage. Protective settings are a good idea for either.

Demantoid in my opinion is too soft for an everyday type ring (and as I mentioned earlier the news on the heating is worrying).

Thanks for the compliment, the ring in my avatar is my e-ring. Here''s one of the finest green e-rings I have ever seen (by Leon Mege) and known as the Pokey Special! Harriet also has some fabulous tsavs.

Re Vendors - Wink Jones and Richard Wise would be my first port of call. To look at lots of lovely examples of stones check out Palagems (trade only so no prices but OMG - company is owned by Bill Larson).

 

[enoki]

mmmm Pandora II...you're making me fall in love with tsavs

It looks like quite a deep rich green. Does it look like that in real life?

Sapphires and the vanadium chrysoberyl are a bit harder aren't they? Can you get those kind of greens in those stones? In terms of sparkliness is there much of a difference bw tsavs, sapphires and the chrysoberyls?

 

[ma re]

Enoki,

I advise you to listen to Mr. Enoki and spend every dime he offers. There might come time when he won''t offer that much or encourage you to spend, so go for it while you can

On a serious note;

- Sapphires can come in somewhat deeper shades of green, but that''s rarely and even the most intense greens are nowhere near as deep/rich as emeralds or tsavorites.
- Yes, sapphires and chrysoberyls (therefore alexandrites too) are harder than garnets.
- There''s not much difference in "sparklines" (the correct term is brilliance

), between the three you mentioned, as all of them have a relatively high index of refraction; Garnets will probably win by a bit cause they''re singly refractive i.e. don''t split light (i.e. don''t exhibit birefringence).
- You said that you prefer simpler cuts, but which shapes appeal to you? With your small/long fingers you could probably go with elongated shapes (oval, pear, marquise, rectangular cushion, emerald cut...) and a shape preference could guide you towards a particular stone; Gems are cut mostly according to the shape of the rough (especially the rare and valuable ones, to preserve weight and intensify color), so it may be easier to find a particular shape if looking for a particular stone variety.
- Yes, demantoids are really quite soft and not recommended for daily wear.
- Be sure to see the stone you''ll buy cause photos can be one thing, and their real appearance something completely different.
- You got some great suggestions for vendors, I''d especially recommend Richard Wise, as he''s not only one of the best gemologists you can find, but also someone with the right connections in the trade (not to mention reputation) that he can source you some great pieces to choose from; there''s a saying that, with gems, who you buy from is more important than what you buy!

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 5/2/2009 8:51:52 AM
Author: enoki
mmmm Pandora II...you''re making me fall in love with tsavs

It looks like quite a deep rich green. Does it look like that in real life?

Sapphires and the vanadium chrysoberyl are a bit harder aren''t they? Can you get those kind of greens in those stones? In terms of sparkliness is there much of a difference bw tsavs, sapphires and the chrysoberyls?

Yes they really look that colour in real life.

Mine is a touch bluer than it looks in the photo - more pics here: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/finally-my-tsavorite-e-ring.75458/

In daylight it''s a very green green all over, under down-lighters it goes incredibly sparkly and shows a lot of contrast between bright neon flashes and darker green areas. It''s classed as a medium dark.

Most coloured stones look best under certain lighting conditions and not others. I have sapphires that look amazing in daylight, but are flattened in electric lighting. Normal electric lighting isn''t the greatest for a lot of coloured stones.

I''m a garnet addict I''m afraid and tsavorites are one of my favourites. For your budget you could get the best going in a very good size (anything over 3cts is incredibly rare). You may find it hard to see many in person as few stores have them, but it''s worth trying to especially to see the colour you like. Harriet and I are both fans of medium dark (the Pokey Special is another medium dark) but a lot of people prefer the medium tone - all down to personal preference really. Shape wise, most of the ones I have seen are either cushions (square and elongated) or ovals.

 

[T L]

Emerald!!

While 99% of them are clarity enhanced, you can fnd untreated or minor treated ones. IMHO, and this is just my opinion (others can disagree), there is no green gemstone that can compare to a top green emerald. For 30K, I think you could find a one carat fine emerald, and even this Afghani emerald is amazing and it's 3.6 carats. I would make the sale contigent upon getting a cert from the AGTA or AGL specifying treatment and quality. He also has some less expensive, but nice ones.

http://www.litnon.com/preview.php?cat=201&id=209

Emeralds are not suitable for everyday wear, but if you want a vivid green, that's the way to go.

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 5/2/2009 11:47:28 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Emerald!!

IMHO, and this is just my opinion (others can disagree), there is no green gemstone that can compare to a top green emerald.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

Date: 5/2/2009 8:30:46 AM
Author: Pandora II
With that budget, I would look at really top tsavorites and alexandrites.

Demantoid in my opinion is too soft for an everyday type ring (and as I mentioned earlier the news on the heating is worrying).

Pandora - As far as I know, demantoid has been always been typically heated and that this was considered an "acceptable" treatment. Do you meant that there are more agressive heating methods or *shudder* some sort of "modern heating" (aka, diffusion)?

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 5/2/2009 12:27:48 PM
Author: Lady_Disdain

Date: 5/2/2009 8:30:46 AM
Author: Pandora II
With that budget, I would look at really top tsavorites and alexandrites.

Demantoid in my opinion is too soft for an everyday type ring (and as I mentioned earlier the news on the heating is worrying).

Pandora - As far as I know, demantoid has been always been typically heated and that this was considered an 'acceptable' treatment. Do you meant that there are more agressive heating methods or *shudder* some sort of 'modern heating' (aka, diffusion)?

All I know at the moment - via a newly published book on garnets is that Bill Larson's comments on around 50% of current Russian production being heat-treated caused a fair amount of consternation at the 2008 garnet conference. I am trying to find more info, but may take a bit of time to get a reply from the person I am waiting to hear details from... will post up what I find out...

One of the problems I have heard about is that it is extremely difficult to detect and so not necessarily disclosed. For me, at demantoid prices, that would be an issue. I'm intrigued to know what effect heating has on the horsetails - since those are normally taken as indicators of Russian origin which carries a premium... anyway just some thoughts...

 

[Harriet]

Enoki,
Since you like the blue-green hue, a few candidates come to mind: (i) Emerald; (ii) blue-green tourmaline; (iii) Paraiba tourmaline; and (iv) Tsavorite. Of the four, Tsavorite is the most wearable.

 

[ma re]

I have to agree with TL that there''s no gem quite as green as a fine emerald. But considering the fact that Enoki is interested in something that sparkles, I''m not sure even top quality emeralds would do much for her. Emeralds have a lower refractive index, therefore slow down light much less than some varieties, so they don''t sparkle as much. What they are prized for (except for color, of course) is their "glow" i.e. sleepy, velvety quality of their deep green. Some people like that in a gemstone, some don''t, but I think that it takes a really good emerald to show off this quality at it''s best (and 30k should be enough to find one like that). Check out THIS site and scroll down to "rich green emerald" to get an idea - and this whole ring is only about a third of your budget. Multicolour.com has at the moment a really nice OVAL that is not only a deep bluish green that''s only slightly included (not often found in emeralds), but it''s also above 5 cts and untreated, which is quite a rarity. But to really capture the beauty of these stones, one needs to see them in person (or at least in a video).

 

[enoki]

Alrighty! I had a hankering to figure out what cuts/size etc looked like. Unfortunately quite a few jewellers were closed. Here goes....I definitely prefer the solitaire/round cut in a 4-6prong claw setting. It really just popped and stood out for the two of us. Sizewise - well I tried a blue topaz solitaire and it was ~2.5carats and 8mm diameter. I''m happy to go a bit bigger hehe so...that said, we both prefer to have something smaller if it''s a better stone. eg. a better quality 3carat than an included 5carat (make sense?)

Ma re - you had me on the floor with the go spend it encouragement!

I did see some emeralds today, didn''t look all that impressive but I think it was due more to the store and not a reflection of the stone. I do get what you mean now with the sleepy velvet look. At this stage, I''m leaning towards tsavorites, green sapphires or alexandrites. With me wanting a solitaire cut, does that mean one is more suitable? I put sapphires in there for the hardness factor but (and correct me if I''m wrong) I realise I''m more likely to get the deeper rich greens with a tsavorite?

ma re - those are some pretty emeralds you found! I think I partially am wanting something a bit more unique and unconventional so hence the slight reluctance towards emeralds. Also I do like the brilliance factor in the sapphires and tsavs.

I did stumble across a stunning green diamond ring someone posted (fr Tiffany''s) - only 2mil

 

[enoki]

Incidentally - is it worth looking at green diamonds? (pls don''t shoot me down on this) - course..me being me I''d prefer an untreated but I''ve read it''s virtually impossible as most are lab-irradiated

In this case, I wouldn''t mind the lighter greens in that case. The pro for me would be the hardness factor.

 

[ma re]

Yes, you''re more likely to find deep green tsavorites (or even alexandrites) than sapphires.

I''m no expert when it comes to diamond prices (not that I''m an expert on any of these things, I just read a lot), but I think you could buy yourself a small untreated one. You may even find something in the half a carat range, but God only knows how much you''d have to wait for it and whom you should contact to find it for you - rare is an understatement when it comes to natural greens. I really have no idea what are the prices of color enhanced ones, but they should''t be overly expensive. Also, since you''d like a round (and since diamonds have an incredibly high R. I.) keep in mind that this shape, being very sparkly, tends to wash out the color of fancy color diamonds, as they don''t even have rich colors to begin with - compared to colored stones. For that reason (and some other) they''re often cut in shapes other than round. Tsavorites, however, benefit from a round shape as they have a lower R. I. and a deeper color than most green diamonds, so this shape takes advantage of their optical properties (to put it simply) and makes for a brilliant stone of a deep green color.

P. S. THIS might appeal to you, but I''m affraid it''s not for sale, and even if it were you''d probably have to rob a bank to get it. It''s The Dresden Green

P. S. If you really decide on a prong solitaire, I''d recommend a 6 prong one, instead of 4 - gives the stone more protection.

 

[enoki]

wow! ma re...that Dresden green - it is that hard to get hold of....the link says I don''t have permission LOL

 

[LD]

Enoki - here are some green gems for you to have a look at:-

Top line: 2ct Emerald (you see this 5 miles away!) and 3ct pear cut Emerald (this is lighter but glows). If you want a gemstone to be seen. These are the ones! My mother wore the first ring every day of her life for about 50 years. She was careful with it and always took it off to wash her hands. (Emeralds don't like hot water!). Both of these have a wonderful glow BUT if you're heavy with your hands then I'd steer clear of Emeralds. If you're quite careful then Emeralds might be a possibility.

2nd line: Irradiated green diamonds. Most green diamonds either have a yellow or brown hue. These have more of a yellow hue but IRL not as much as the photo suggests. As has been mentioned, a lab can't tell whether these are irradiated or natural (although I'm sure an educated guess would do!) because the process to irradiate them is the process that occurs in nature. Most "natural" green diamonds have a different tone/hue.

3rd line: 2.5ct Alexandrite with diamonds. Green doesn't photograph well with Alex. This is a forest/bottle green in daylight and then goes to a purple amethyst at night. Alex is a very hardy gemstone and one that can be worn every day without worry (apart from losing or replacing it!).

4th line: 3.06ct Alexandrite with diamonds. This is phenomenal and my baby. Again, the green hasn't photographed well and it looks really "odd" in these photos! It's a mid forest green. It turns reddish purple under incandescent light with the whole gemstone changing colour (some only partially change and for your money you should be looking for a gem with at least 90-95% change). I wear this most days.

I have never seen an Alex cut in a round although ovals are easy to find. I have seen Emeralds cut into rounds but the ones I've seen tend to be the lower quality ones. You might want to bear that in mind.

 

[T L]

Date: 5/3/2009 6:29:09 AM
Author: enoki
Incidentally - is it worth looking at green diamonds? (pls don't shoot me down on this) - course..me being me I'd prefer an untreated but I've read it's virtually impossible as most are lab-irradiated

In this case, I wouldn't mind the lighter greens in that case. The pro for me would be the hardness factor.

You can get green grey diamonds for a lower price than GIA rated fancy green. I did see a very small, like .10 ct, fancy green for sale for around $3000, but unfortunatley, that would be the size of an accent stone. GIA graded pure fancy greens are some of the most expensive diamonds. I have a green grey diamond that I love, and although it turns a forest green in sunlight, and in other lights, it is a greyish green, it might not be green enough for you. The Dresden green diamond that Mr. Ma Rae posted is one of the top ten most famous diamonds in existance. It's known for it's size and it's spectacular green coloration due to the earth's natural radiation when it was being formed.

There is also a type of olive green diamond called a chameleon since it can change color when heated or left in the dark for a while. However, most of the time it would be olive green. They are also more affordable than fancy greens. To make sure the diamond has value, only get a GIA certed fancy diamond. Some yellow diamonds also fluoresce green, so in sunlight, or any UV light, they take on a noticable green cast. That's also a more affordable option as well.

If you click on my user name, you will see my green grey diamond in a rose gold three stone setting in my gallery pictures.

With 99% of natural colored green diamonds on the market, you're not going to get a vivid green, but colored diamonds are rare commodities and have great value. Nothing sparkles quite like a diamond either.

 

[LD]

Date: 5/3/2009 9:20:19 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 5/3/2009 6:29:09 AM
Author: enoki
Incidentally - is it worth looking at green diamonds? (pls don''t shoot me down on this) - course..me being me I''d prefer an untreated but I''ve read it''s virtually impossible as most are lab-irradiated

In this case, I wouldn''t mind the lighter greens in that case. The pro for me would be the hardness factor.

You can get green grey diamonds for a lower price than GIA rated fancy green. I did see a very small, like .10 ct, fancy green for sale for around $3000, but unfortunatley, that would be the size of an accent stone. GIA graded pure fancy greens are some of the most expensive diamonds. I have a green grey diamond that I love, and although it turns a forest green in sunlight, and in other lights, it is a greyish green, it might not be green enough for you. The Dresden green diamond that Mr. Ma Rae posted is one of the top ten most famous diamonds in existance. It''s known for it''s size and it''s spectacular green coloration due to the earth''s natural radiation when it was being formed.

There is also a type of olive green diamond called a chameleon since it can change color when heated or left in the dark for a while. However, most of the time it would be olive green. They are also more affordable than fancy greens. To make sure the diamond has value, only get a GIA certed fancy diamond. Some yellow diamonds also fluoresce green, so in sunlight, or any UV light, they take on a noticable green cast. That''s also a more affordable option as well.

If you click on my user name, you will see my green grey diamond in a rose gold three stone setting in my gallery pictures.

With 99% of natural colored green diamonds on the market, you''re not going to get a vivid green, but colored diamonds are rare commodities and have great value. Nothing sparkles quite like a diamond either.

TL most chameleons only have the green/olive green when kept in the dark. They then go more yellow as the stone is exposed to light (which is what mine does). There is a reverse type chameleon that does the opposite but I believe is not as valuable?