Which do you like.....why?

[Mayk]

The band I have been told isn't there in real life... My question is I see a lot of EC stones on JA's website that I have studied going around and round... Almost every stone at some point in the video has a dark step. Not sure why... I do think based on what I've seen I need to see whatever I buy for myself before making a decision.

I liked the K in Palm Beach... Hello who wouldn't love 5 cts... And I loved the 1.59 I reviewed. It just wasn't big enough. I learned by heading out to the B&M that in a setting it changed the size from my viewpoint Nd I know this size is about right for me.

I showed DH both pictures tonight after returning from a three day business trip and his vote was the K...

I wish I could see the J...or get better pictures but that is not an option. I would have to decide with the one I have.

I like the K a lot.... You all have certainly given me a scare. Seeing it on Friday pictures then... And final evaluation....

As always thank you for taking the time to weigh in and provide me with your thoughts! We need a hug emocotion.

 

[chrono]

Mayk,
I don't mind a dark step or two; that creates scintillation or the on/off "walk". What bothers me is when it doesn't "walk" but is a steady dark wide band. Sadly, almost all the ECs I've looked at for you on JA are not well cut. If you really want to give this K a go, ask David to slowly rotate it side to side. If the center stays dark and doesn't walk, no matter how pretty the pattern or ratio, I would never be satisfied with the lack of sparkle. It's akin to saying one prefers the symmetry of H&A in rounds but disregards the light performance. Beautiful steps do not guarantee maximum light return.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Very good post, Chrono!

Mayk, did he ever do or redo the ASET? You really need that due to the dark band they are talking about.

 

[Mayk]

DS he is working on purchasing the equipment to take pictures. He's shipping it today so right now I have what he did and I posted and the conversation I had with David about what he's seen that can't be captured with his current equipment.

Everyone say..these diamonds must be seen in person.. When I asked David about the "band" he says in person it's not there. I see it in some shots and in others I don't... Does it walk... I have no idea. If I can see it when I get the diamond on Friday it's going back no questions ask...

David loved the 1.59 said the cut was wonderful, we've all seen it... Very interesting and what I thought was unique. He said when he puts this one next to the 1.59 the cut makes the 1.59 pale in comparison... But he still loves the 1.59. He knows I will post all this stuff I certainly hope he wouldn't pick a complete dud... He was very excited about this diamond.

I'm listening to everyone the input is so important but I also wonder if because he's not "loved" on here for being abrasive, is the analysis sometimes tougher? I'm trying to figure out if I need to throw salt on it... I do talk to a couple PSers off line... One is a supporter... One is very neutral..she hasn't worked with him... . My neutral friend says to be cautious... So I'm going to be. I'm just trying to be sure I'm balanced.

I like the color... I like the cut... According to the poll...so do most others.. I'm very torn at this point. If I love it when I see it I will likely make an appointment downtown with a PS recommended appraiser I've used before... If I love it..it is worth $150 to confirm. If I don't love it... Back in the box. Just like the 1.59.

As always.. DS and Chrono I so appreciate your input and feedback. I wish I had a better ASET to post...but I do have a lot more than the one blurry picture of the J... Which may have been a winner.. But I'm not taking that risk based on one picture and no decent return policy. If I don't like the K I can return it.

Just as a side note... I had asked ERD to check out two on their site... Chris said he would.. He never got back to me. I did say it wasn't a rush to do it when he wasn't busy... But that was three weeks ago..he sent me a note a week ago saying my email got buried and he would see what he could find..but hasn't sent me any info on the two I inquired about.... Guess he's still busy with the Valentine's rush. Sad... I've done a nice amount of business with them.. My Tranny setting, sapphire bands and sapphire DBTY bracelet.. I'm sure he will get around to it...

If the search is still on..after Monday I will keep going.. And pestering the boards... and hopefully continue to learn more.

 

[lknvrb4]

Both are beautiful but I prefer the J because it is longer.

 

[chrono]

There is no dispute that this EC is a lot flashier than the previous 1.59 EC, which is why I also dissuaded you from that one. I took a bit of heat from David too when I questioned its light performance. The steps on that one was drop dead gorgeous but it just didn't perform for me.

I know that David is doing his best to source you a great EC. After all, if it sells, he makes the profit, right? It's just that his idea of what is beautiful is very unconventional, hence some are biased against him. His method of photography and video taping is also questionable by many. This is mute point for you because you will see the stone in person. David's writing style is also overly passionate at times. I do not fault him for that, nor hold it against him; that's just David. I am sure many do not agree with me on this because the vendor should not be argumentative with the customer. I do draw the line at name calling and accusatory statements though (not that he has done so IIRC).

Although the J shows promise, I would not consider it either due to the lousy return policy. The risk isn't worth it. I hope ERD follows up for you. I remember them getting some of the loveliest ECs a few years ago.

 

[Mayk]

There is no dispute that this EC is a lot flashier than the previous 1.59 EC, which is why I also dissuaded you from that one. I took a bit of heat from David too when I questioned its light performance. The steps on that one was drop dead gorgeous but it just didn't perform for me.

I know that David is doing his best to source you a great EC. After all, if it sells, he makes the profit, right? It's just that his idea of what is beautiful is very unconventional, hence some are biased against him. His method of photography and video taping is also questionable by many. This is mute point for you because you will see the stone in person. David's writing style is also overly passionate at times. I do not fault him for that, nor hold it against him; that's just David. I am sure many do not agree with me on this because the vendor should not be argumentative with the customer. I do draw the line at name calling and accusatory statements though (not that he has done so IIRC).

Although the J shows promise, I would not consider it either due to the lousy return policy. The risk isn't worth it. I hope ERD follows up for you. I remember them getting some of the loveliest ECs a few years ago.

I missed that one...totally... Passion is a dangerous thing....we all sometimes get carried away... Don't ask me about peanut butter... I sell it for a living... I have a very high opinion of our brands .

Chrono I so appreciate your contributions...

 

[Rockdiamond]

HI Everyone!
I just wanted to poke my head in and say hi.
In any discussion where passionate people have different opinions, it's incredibly difficult to explore the differences.
Add to this the limitations of the written word- where you can't see the person's face, and misunderstandings are inevitable.
I'd like to think we can all listen to criticism, or have our experience questioned without malice- but in truth, that's very hard for ... probably 90% of us.
I know it is for me- and remembering this is a good thing.
Clearly my words- read without the benefit of hearing my voice or seeing my face- have been seen here at times as confrontational.
Although my intention is to present a different point of view, it is never my intention to insult anyone.

With regards to my photos and videos- any photographic method has limitations.
My photos are different than pretty much any other major diamond website- and I'm proud of my work.
However the portrayal that my methods are "questioned by many" is simply untrue. You might like the way I represent our diamonds, or you may not, however my methods have proven to be effective to an almost unbelievable degree- that can be measured in our super low return rate.
Also, if there was any problems with my photos, it would have been mentioned by one of the many clients of ours that post here.

Our business model is different than pretty much any of our competition. When we offer a diamond on the site, it's because we have already purchased it ( in over 90% of cases)
That's why we have hundreds of diamonds already set into rings.
That's why we can custom build a ring with a money back guarantee- if the client does not like it we can put it in stock.
Because we purchase the diamonds, we need to be VERY sure we're buying a good stone.
About buying the diamonds:
I use my eyes. When I was trained to grade and assess diamonds at Harry Winston, I paid a lot of attention to emerald cuts- because I've always loved them.
Most of the diamonds we carry are more "traditional" as opposed to "unconventional" IMO- however I freely admit I LOVE the cool and unusual.

My main motivation is NOT to make a profit. Of course that needs to happen- however my goal in any transaction is to satisfy the client.
If we were not doing this, either by selling bad diamonds or not honoring our word, it would be ALL OVER this forum- quite the contrary, people who have written here about their experiences with DBL as clients have been positive.

Chrono- I apologize to have questioned your judgment- I can only say that I love emerald cuts- and when I say it's a great looking stone it's based on almost 40 years experience n the wholesale diamond business, and of course my own personal taste. If I see a large dark static area- or other performance deficiencies, I am bound to let my client know.
Many have found they agree with my selections over the years- those who did not were gladly given a refund.

 

[chrono]

David,
No need to apologize. I'm always up for a good discussion as this is the way we all learn and move forward. Other than antique cuts like OMCs and OECs, emerald cuts are true and dear to my heart as well.

 

[Mayk]

So... I'm waiting to see the diamond.. not because I don't want to see it.. but because David has convinced me I should let him set it in the setting I want... NO OBLIGATION to buy it.. but says he likes the stone so much he would be thrilled to feature it for sale on his site in the setting I've chosen even if I don't end up purchasing the diamond. (I think he would like the claw prongs better.. but he's humoring me on the old fashion/traditional ball prongs and bars at the end of the baguettes). So.. three weeks now to wait... patience is not my virtue.. I hope tons of people get engaged so I have a bunch of new bling to look at while I wait.

 

[ariel144]

I would definitely trust David's judgment on the K. I like the shape too.

After watching all those EC's on JA turn...LOL, I was only impressed with this K IF, which is close to what David has.


http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.08-carat-K-color-IF-clarity-sku-176431

No dark banding anywhere as it turns, but more square. I like all the 3 steps on the crown too, and the crown being small 58%.

Hope the one he is sending you works for you.

 

[Mayk]

I would definitely trust David's judgment on the K. I like the shape too.

After watching all those EC's on JA turn...LOL, I was only impressed with this K IF, which is close to what David has.


http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.08-carat-K-color-IF-clarity-sku-176431

No dark banding anywhere as it turns, but more square. I like all the 3 steps on the crown too, and the crown being small 58%.

Hope the one he is sending you works for you.

I've also watched it go round and round.... Thanks for the reco... I'm getting dizzy watching all the ECs go round and round as I closely study the changes in the stones... I've also watch the video at least 10 times.... I'm making myself silly...

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Mayk, I hope you know that I never recommend anyone buy a stone on here without an idealscope or an ASET image. It has nothing to do with who the vendor is. If a vendor wants to be successful selling to PS members, they'd better be offering what the competition offers. And in fact, David absolutely stated to me previously on this forum that he DID already offer everything a vendor like GOG does in terms of diamond analysis. I will say that was an ironic statement since clearly he did not have the ability to take proper ASET pictures of the diamond you are interested in. However, it was also good to hear he wanted to order the necessary equipment to do so. (I haven't read the most recent posts because I am in the middle of doing something and just wanted to reply to yours above.)

I want you to end up with a great diamond that you LOVE! When I posted my AVR candidates, I had some reservations about them in terms of color or size, and my friends here absolutely advised me not to settle because they knew I wouldn't be happy in the long run. I knew they had my best interests at heart and I agreed. That is all we are offering you...our best opinions for what might be a great stone for you. And I can't say anything yet about that diamond other than it looks like a nice shape, has a dark band that makes the ASET even more necessary, and I think other people will see a tint in the stone and that may or not matter to you.

 

[chrono]

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.08-carat-K-color-IF-clarity-sku-176431

Ooohhhh.....lots of promise!

 

[Mayk]

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.08-carat-K-color-IF-clarity-sku-176431

Ooohhhh.....lots of promise!

The reason I didn't ask to look at this one (and it's with a broker so I could have had anyone pull it) was because the measurements were so close to the 1.59 I looked at. I really wanted to try and get over the 8mm mark on length. I felt like that was my sweet spot...

I agree there are a lot of nice things about that diamond and I've watched it going around a lot...

 

[Dreamer_D]

If well cut, I doubt an EC with a 64% table will be glassy. 65% is the max I would go for.

Good to know.

 

[Rockdiamond]

DS_ I agree that if a vendor wants to get recommended by many of the PS regulars, ASET images are necessary- and in fact, I have taken some aset photos ( better than the one of this diamond) about 2 years back.
People never ask for them, hence my lack of practice.
But even a few years back I noted that there's not really a consistent manner of aset photography even between vendors that do take them.
Hopefully that's different today, as I am anxious to show the diamonds in a manner that will satisfy this type of request.


About diamond analysis- we do offer our shoppers as much if not more info about our offerings as any other seller IMO.
Not every shopper wants numerical data- some actually prefer more photographic , video- and my personal hands on assessment- and we do excel there..I don't know of any other site with the depth of photos and videos that we have.
Having said that- I will work on a better aset setup. But likely not in time for this particular diamond which is going to be set.

PS- I'm in TOTAL agreement with those saying they want MAYK to get the diamond/ring of her dreams- and I'm working hard to make that happen.

 

[Dreamer_D]

MayK, here is my honest opinion. I am very distrusting of anyone trying to sell me something because I understand the psychology of sales and I am also wary of mixed motivations. That is why I am a consumer advocate.

One of the oldest selling tricks in the book is to say, "I love it so much I will buy it for myself if you don't". I have had a jeweler use that on me. Is it true in this case? I don't know. I don't care. But I can tell you it is a sales that increases the odds that a buyer will "bite" because it suggests the seller will put his money where his mouth is. I think personally such statements should be utterly disregarded by a consumer. it does not matter if the vendor wants to keep the stone. It matters if you want to keep it.

As a social psychologist, I can also tell you with 100% certainty that when a seller does a "favour" for a potential buyer, like setting a stone into a mount for free, then the buyer feels an obligation to repay that favour and is more likely to buy. This is something that has been studied experimentally. So please be very mindful of the fact that you have alreay been primed to keep this ring. And your mind is primed to want to keep it before even seeing it.

 

[Mayk]

Mayk, I hope you know that I never recommend anyone buy a stone on here without an idealscope or an ASET image. It has nothing to do with who the vendor is. If a vendor wants to be successful selling to PS members, they'd better be offering what the competition offers. And in fact, David absolutely stated to me previously on this forum that he DID already offer everything a vendor like GOG does in terms of diamond analysis. I will say that was an ironic statement since clearly he did not have the ability to take proper ASET pictures of the diamond you are interested in. However, it was also good to hear he wanted to order the necessary equipment to do so. (I haven't read the most recent posts because I am in the middle of doing something and just wanted to reply to yours above.)

I want you to end up with a great diamond that you LOVE! When I posted my AVR candidates, I had some reservations about them in terms of color or size, and my friends here absolutely advised me not to settle because they knew I wouldn't be happy in the long run. I knew they had my best interests at heart and I agreed. That is all we are offering you...our best opinions for what might be a great stone for you. And I can't say anything yet about that diamond other than it looks like a nice shape, has a dark band that makes the ASET even more necessary, and I think other people will see a tint in the stone and that may or not matter to you.

DS.. I have read a ton of threads.. absolutely I've seen it 1,000's of times... so I'm not doubting you at all... you frequently if not always recommend an ASET.

As for color.. when I saw that K in Palm Beach.. I loved it, so when I started looking I felt like I would be happy with a nice K. Also, the steps on this one the chunkiness of the steps are characteristics I find appealing. I know Ms. Phoenix would NEVER settle for anything this warm..or this small ( Phoenix..you know I love ya) but I on the other hand like it (and I didnt' use to until I started studying all this antique stones.. PS has changed me forever ).

I'm happy David is putting it in a ring. I'm also happy I know I don't have to take it if I don't like it. Christina said when I had the 1.59 in a post.. that diamonds look so much different in a setting.. BOY was she right! As I learned in my latest visit to the local B&M that has cases and cases of loose diamonds (Most with UGI (UG Something) & EGL certs.. but I could check out size).

Again... this may not be the one and I'll continue to look. I may not get to see an ASET except talking to David about the one he did and the pictures that were not very good.. But if it knocks my socks off when I get it... then I'll know if I'm happy or not. Maybe too... I'm not a "dyed in the wool" PS'er and I'm happy with really super nice.. without it being IDEAL... afterall... my engagement ring which I love so much... is really considered to be too deep although it's an AGS 000. Most of the folks on here would likely not have picked it... I think it's a little like when folks buy stones that have inclusions and they call them freckles.

So when I say I'm balancing my feedback I'm also balancing my expectations or requirements... I hope I don't get tossed from the club for admitting I may not be the perfectionist... I just want to look at it and be happy.

As for working with David.. he's been fabulous and patient with me. I loved working with Tim at Emma Parker and Adam at Sareen... I think in some ways I'm better with smaller versus larger. I really enjoyed working with Chris too at ERD. I've never had the pleasure to work with Leon or Steven or Jon or Victor (but I called him and he was very nice)...and I adore Grace and all the help she gave me with the Tranny and we talked about the EC on her site...... but this is where I ended up, the K 1.59 drew me in.. I like the site.. I go there often and study the pictures and what he says about the diamonds. I don't follow all the threads so I don't know much of this history..

I love being here.. part of this commumity and I love the feedback.. in the end... I may make a decision that goes against the grain.. Lord knows I have done bling boo-boos... it will not be my first... but hopefully I will feel I've done enough studying that I feel good about my choice.

OH Goodness.. good thing I could still edit.. the grammar police would be after me... my brain is moving way slower than my fingers!

 

[Mayk]

MayK, here is my honest opinion. I am very distrusting of anyone trying to sell me something because I understand the psychology of sales and I am also wary of mixed motivations. That is why I am a consumer advocate.

One of the oldest selling tricks in the book is to say, "I love it so much I will buy it for myself if you don't". I have had a jeweler use that on me. Is it true in this case? I don't know. I don't care. But I can tell you it is a sales that increases the odds that a buyer will "bite" because it suggests the seller will put his money where his mouth is. I think personally such statements should be utterly disregarded by a consumer. it does not matter if the vendor wants to keep the stone. It matters if you want to keep it.

As a social psychologist, I can also tell you with 100% certainty that when a seller does a "favour" for a potential buyer, like setting a stone into a mount for free, then the buyer feels an obligation to repay that favour and is more likely to buy. This is something that has been studied experimentally. So please be very mindful of the fact that you have alreay been primed to keep this ring. And your mind is primed to want to keep it before even seeing it.

Thanks Dreamer.. I heard someone once say Sales People were the biggest suckers... LORD!!! I've been in sales for 29 years.. first shoes and then Consumer Products for my entire professional career... this could be VERY TRUE .

I'm truly not feeling overly obligated... if my husband doesn't like it.. it's not happening.... and he's the voice of reason. I've had him reading all the threads and input.. even if he didn't want to.. I came home last night and handed him my iPad and said.. start reading and let's chat... So hopefully he will keep me from leaping off the "I'm a sucker" cliff...

 

[Enerchi]

You go with what your eyes and your heart tell you to do!! You are the buyer and the one that will be wearing the ring, so if it pleases YOU and you alone, then *that's* the diamond for you!! Input from PS is very valuable and educational but ultimately, its up to you so while it may or may not be the popular choice, sometimes, your eyes and your heart are the best judges!!

 

[Rockdiamond]

HI Dreamer,
We never offered to set this diamond for free.
We have already purchased the diamond. This is not a sales technique- other than the fact that owning the diamonds is an integral part of our business model. Owning the diamonds allows things like trade up ( on the entire ring, not just the diamond) and custom making rings ( not for free) with money back guarantees. It also allows me the time to take as many photos and videos, and describe the diamonds in detail as we do.
So, if providing a good experience for shoppers, with no pressure, is sales technique, we're guilty.

We are not doing anyone a favor, we're doing our job.
How in the world could we benefit from pressuring Mayk in this situation?
So many are watching.
For me it makes no difference who is watching, we NEVER pressure people to buy.

Given the way we run our business, your words- seemingly aimed at our business- could not be farther from the truth.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Mayk, you have to buy what you LOVE!!! And that does not mean we are all going to love the exact same things or else we'd all be pretty bored around here! I think an AGS 0 stone is top notch and you surely don't need to apologize for that! Diamonds are SO expensive now that my personal philosophy is that I want the best my money can buy whatever it is that I am buying. As long as YOU think the cut, light performance, and color of this stone is exactly what you love, then not one of us can say a thing against it! You are asking for opinions based on limited information, and we have given you many. You will either adore it when you see it or you will have doubts. And you know what my advice is in that case!

(I will also have to say that I think Dreamer is very perceptive.)

 

[Dreamer_D]

MayK, here is my honest opinion. I am very distrusting of anyone trying to sell me something because I understand the psychology of sales and I am also wary of mixed motivations. That is why I am a consumer advocate.

One of the oldest selling tricks in the book is to say, "I love it so much I will buy it for myself if you don't". I have had a jeweler use that on me. Is it true in this case? I don't know. I don't care. But I can tell you it is a sales that increases the odds that a buyer will "bite" because it suggests the seller will put his money where his mouth is. I think personally such statements should be utterly disregarded by a consumer. it does not matter if the vendor wants to keep the stone. It matters if you want to keep it.

As a social psychologist, I can also tell you with 100% certainty that when a seller does a "favour" for a potential buyer, like setting a stone into a mount for free, then the buyer feels an obligation to repay that favour and is more likely to buy. This is something that has been studied experimentally. So please be very mindful of the fact that you have alreay been primed to keep this ring. And your mind is primed to want to keep it before even seeing it.

Thanks Dreamer.. I heard someone once say Sales People were the biggest suckers... LORD!!! I've been in sales for 29 years.. first shoes and then Consumer Products for my entire professional career... this could be VERY TRUE .

I'm truly not feeling overly obligated... if my husband doesn't like it.. it's not happening.... and he's the voice of reason. I've had him reading all the threads and input.. even if he didn't want to.. I came home last night and handed him my iPad and said.. start reading and let's chat... So hopefully he will keep me from leaping off the "I'm a sucker" cliff...

LOL!

Well, I think in many cases neither the seller or the buyer are aware of these underlying motivations and the way that various sales methods influence buyers. All sales people may know is what methods work, and the tips for good sales are passed down the generations. I suppose the best sellers would use those methods that work AND have good intentions to please their clients. That would be the best case for a buyer. That may very well be the case for you in this situation. I just personally like to always be aware of all the factors that can influence my decisions when I am spending large amounts of money.

Any intro ssocial psychology text will outline these tried and true methods:

Giving a free gift makes buyers more likely to buy.

Foot in door ("look at this small stone, don't you like it? Or wait, did you see this bigger one? and this bigger one?).

Door in face ("this diamond is out of your budget, it costs $10k. But WAIT A MOMENT!! I can get it for you for $8k by slashing my profit margin!)

And on and on and on.

I can't wait to hear what you think of this diamond, in particular the size

 

[Mayk]

Just a reminder of what started this crazy journey.

I tried it on in Palm Beach and my DH said... I like that so much better than your older diamond ring. He's a total Art Deco nut. Mr. Architect who likes clean lines.

It's a K 5 cts of yumminess.

Truth be told... I think he likes it better than my engagement ring... it's just his style.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Okay, I will make an exception for THAT one!!!

 

[Mayk]

Okay, I will make an exception for THAT one!!!

If only I had an extra $225,000 laying around collecting dust.....

 

[Enerchi]

Okay, I will make an exception for THAT one!!!

If only I had an extra $225,000 laying around collecting dust.....

Oh... let me help you... I just cleaned out my pockets and sofa... and look what I found!! $225K and had NO idea what to do with it!

 

[Mayk]

Okay, I will make an exception for THAT one!!!

If only I had an extra $225,000 laying around collecting dust.....

Oh... let me help you... I just cleaned out my pockets and sofa... and look what I found!! $225K and had NO idea what to do with it!

You are NOT well!!

 

[04diamond<3]

Just a reminder of what started this crazy journey.

I tried it on in Palm Beach and my DH said... I like that so much better than your older diamond ring. He's a total Art Deco nut. Mr. Architect who likes clean lines.

It's a K 5 cts of yumminess.

Truth be told... I think he likes it better than my engagement ring... it's just his style.