Which diamond would you choose?

[karylicious]

May I ask the experts to chime in please?
Which would you choose? Will the one with med fluorescence be problematic?
Thanks In advance

 

[whitewave]

Neither, may we help you find something?

 

[karylicious]

Neither, may we help you find something?

Why neither?
I am looking for round, ex cut, minimum SI1-Vs2 F color and the stone needs to be 8.2 ish to fit my new setting

 

[TODiamonds]

The E VS2 could work very well if you prefer the look of a shallower stone. I love the massive spread on it and the clarity plot looks reasonable. If you have access to the stone, take a look at it in sunlight to make sure it's not milky due to the Flo.

The SI1 will face up noticeably smaller than the VS2. It's a deeper stone so you're paying for more dead weight. Also those inclusions on the table do not look promising. On top of that it's lower color. I don't see any compelling reason to pursue this one (unless it's significantly more affordable).

Without any further info I'd take the VS2 assuming you can confirm it's not milky. Got pics or video?

 

[whitewave]

The second one (VS) has a low crown angle. Can you get images like ASET? It is H&A?

It’s iffy with just the numbers. I need to see more.

Given the size, I am also concerned about clarity characteristics.

Generally, 33/41 has large bright flashes, but less fire.

It is online? Can it be vetted by an in house gemologist?

Have you seen them?

 

[whitewave]

(Going to bed, TTYL. Maybe others will contribute).

With the first one, I’m worried about clarity characteristics.

 

[TODiamonds]

The second one (VS) has a low crown angle.

There's nothing inherently wrong with a 33 crown angle. It just doesn't fit the mold of the 34.5/40.8 "super ideal" cookie cutter template that everyone around here is brainwashed to push onto consumers.

Angles are a matter of preference. Within a certain range there's no right or wrong answer. 33 is not necessarily "low". It could be perfectly fine when paired with something complimentary - in this case 41 (which I know is the dreaded "drop off" point for PS'ers).

Why don't you run this stone through the HCA (since that's what passes for the holy grail around here) and tell us what it spits out? I bet it's a really good score since HCA is biased towards shallower stones and I'm confident the "fire" will be perfectly fine.

 

[karylicious]

Forgive me but I have no idea what HCA means..
Here are pictures from the JA site.
They are both about the same price, the SI1 21430$ and the Vs2 20940$

2.13 Carat round diamond

This 2.13 carat round diamond E color vs2 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

2.13 Carat round diamond

This 2.13 carat round diamond F color si1 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

 

[lydial]

@TODiamonds and @karylicious: TOD‘s comments here are unhelpful. Saying the fire in a 60/60 stone will be “fine” without seeing it in person is both incorrect and unhelpful. Kary: if you are interested in understanding ideal diamond proportions you can either go through old threads and read, or you can look at the certificates for Whiteflash ACA diamonds and HPD CBI diamonds to get an idea of what is currently considered the ideal ratio (all relating back to the original Tolkowski numbers). TOD is right about complementary angles and there really are beautiful stones out there with non ideal angles but you have to ask yourself what kind of risk you are willing to take to get a big beautiful diamond. You can also look through education materials here in PS. You can also plug angles into the HCA here in PS. After using it 3 times you need to pay a small subscription fee, it is worth it if you are buying from sites that have many shapes of round diamonds. The HCA is only for modern rounds, not fancy cuts or antique cuts. And, no one here is brainwashed; the folks who post who have thousands of posts probably know more than newer posters. And the diamond collectors here tend to like a certain flavor of fiery reflections without light leakage that you are less likely to get with a flatter and deeper stone that will mostly look white (brilliant). It is all preference. Even some stones with ideal basic angles will not have that fire because of subtle differences in other angles. That is why a lot of people go straight to ideal vendors, but it is not necessary as long as you can get good images.

 

[karylicious]

Here is the HCA, hope I did it well

 

[lydial]

Remember HCA is an accept/reject tool and promises nothing, just helps weed out potential bad performance stones. There are so many subtleties to diamond cutting that affect final optics. But the HCA on the 60/60 is promising and the price is significantly lower than a CBI of the color clarity and carat (>36k). It will not look the same but may still wow you? As long as you have a return window you may not have anything to lose. You should also make sure the stone will not be too big for your setting.

 

[karylicious]

Remember HCA is an accept/reject tool and promises nothing, just helps weed out potential bad performance stones. There are so many subtleties to diamond cutting that affect final optics. But the HCA on the 60/60 is promising and the price is significantly lower than a CBI of the color clarity and carat (>36k). It will not look the same but may still wow you? As long as you have a return window you may not have anything to lose. You should also make sure the stone will not be too big for your setting.

I have 30 day return policy with JA. I have never seen a fluo stone so this could be a deciding factor for me

 

[TODiamonds]

I have 30 day return policy with JA. I have never seen a fluo stone so this could be a deciding factor for me

Call JA. Ask them to have their gemologist in NY review it and report whether it's 1) eye clean 2) exhibits any milky or haziness. It should take them a couple of days because they have to send the stone to their lab to inspect. Once you get that confirmation you're good to go. Medium is unlikely to cause milkiness but when you're spending this much you should check all the boxes. Then when you get it in person take it outside on a sunny day to confirm no milkiness while you've got the return period.

Well done. You just saved yourself $16k by doing the work yourself instead of outsourcing to CBI.

 

[whitewave]

@TODiamonds and @karylicious: TOD‘s comments here are unhelpful. Saying the fire in a 60/60 stone will be “fine” without seeing it in person is both incorrect and unhelpful. Kary: if you are interested in understanding ideal diamond proportions you can either go through old threads and read, or you can look at the certificates for Whiteflash ACA diamonds and HPD CBI diamonds to get an idea of what is currently considered the ideal ratio (all relating back to the original Tolkowski numbers). TOD is right about complementary angles and there really are beautiful stones out there with non ideal angles but you have to ask yourself what kind of risk you are willing to take to get a big beautiful diamond. You can also look through education materials here in PS. You can also plug angles into the HCA here in PS. After using it 3 times you need to pay a small subscription fee, it is worth it if you are buying from sites that have many shapes of round diamonds. The HCA is only for modern rounds, not fancy cuts or antique cuts. And, no one here is brainwashed; the folks who post who have thousands of posts probably know more than newer posters. And the diamond collectors here tend to like a certain flavor of fiery reflections without light leakage that you are less likely to get with a flatter and deeper stone that will mostly look white (brilliant). It is all preference. Even some stones with ideal basic angles will not have that fire because of subtle differences in other angles. That is why a lot of people go straight to ideal vendors, but it is not necessary as long as you can get good images.

Yes, and it’s why I asked if she has seen them in person.

This is a big purchase, and I’m sure OP wants to make the best choice possible. I think JA has a decent return policy, so that will help.

I just got here from last nice, so have to read up....

Also, her question was which would I choose, and since she asked, I would choose neither.

 

[whitewave]

How do we add quotes to posts now? Agggghhh...

In terms of Fluor, it is strictly a personal decision. I personally love Fluor in a stone as it is a neat party trick and gives a discount. I don’t necessarily look for it, but I’ll also take it.

Keep in mind though, that if you ever want to sell it or trade it in with a superideal dealer (many have....) for a super ideal diamond, the Fluor is probably going to prevent that from happening. (Whiteflash ACAs for instance, don’t have Fluor to make the category iirc).

As for TOD’s dig about superideals, he has never seen one. He has 165 posts and so please remember he isn’t experienced with diamonds. I’m happy he has a helping spirit, but as Lydial mentions, he already has given incorrect information.

Another vendor you could check with is David at Diamonds by Lauren. I would say he likes spready diamonds that are good deals, and I believe he vets them himself, so you could really play with the numbers and see what he finds. I’m going to be in NYC this week and I’m thinking about going to pay him a visit anyway, so I could video for you maybe etc. lol another set of eyes. Just a thought...

 

[karylicious]

Yes, and it’s why I asked if she has seen them in person.

This is a big purchase, and I’m sure OP wants to make the best choice possible. I think JA has a decent return policy, so that will help.

I just got here from last nice, so have to read up....

Also, her question was which would I choose, and since she asked, I would choose neither.

May I ask why you would t choose the Vs2?

 

[TODiamonds]

As for TOD’s dig about superideals, he has never seen one. He has 165 posts and so please remember he isn’t experienced with diamonds.

How do you know I've never seen a "super ideal" in person? Do I know you in person? Based on my post count? Thanks again for proving my point about what's wrong with PS. You're a shining example.

 

[karylicious]

Call JA. Ask them to have their gemologist in NY review it and report whether it's 1) eye clean 2) exhibits any milky or haziness. It should take them a couple of days because they have to send the stone to their lab to inspect. Once you get that confirmation you're good to go. Medium is unlikely to cause milkiness but when you're spending this much you should check all the boxes. Then when you get it in person take it outside on a sunny day to confirm no milkiness while you've got the return period.

Well done. You just saved yourself $16k by doing the work yourself instead of outsourcing to CBI.

I asked about his and I would take more time to get it there and send it to me. As a am Canadian, and I’m going to the Us next week, it would be faster and easier for me to get the stone, and have a jeweller look at it? If not, i won’t be able to get it in time. And since I have a 30 window to return, would it be wiser to to it this way?

Would we see the haziness on the video?

 

[whitewave]

How do you know I've never seen a "super ideal" in person? Do I know you in person? Based on my post count? Thanks again for proving my point about what's wrong with PS. You're a shining example.

Because you used the word brainwashed. You VERY CLEARLY have not seen a CBI, BG or ACA.

 

[whitewave]

I asked about his and I would take more time to get it there and send it to me. As a am Canadian, and I’m going to the Us next week, it would be faster and easier for me to get the stone, and have a jeweller look at it? If not, i won’t be able to get it in time. And since I have a 30 window to return, would it be wiser to to it this way?

Would we see the haziness on the video?

Oh, if you are Canadian, I would recommend calling Martin at USAcerteddiamonds.com as he is in Toronto and is a recommended vendor. He doesn’t do settings (he does, but he only has a few basic stock settings), which is great since you already have one and he is in Toronto and is known to be a rock bottom price guy. I highly recommend you contact him.

U.S.A. Certed Diamonds – #1 Source For Loose Diamonds

usacerteddiamonds.com

 

[TODiamonds]

I asked about his and I would take more time to get it there and send it to me. As a am Canadian, and I’m going to the Us next week, it would be faster and easier for me to get the stone, and have a jeweller look at it? If not, i won’t be able to get it in time. And since I have a 30 window to return, would it be wiser to to it this way?

Would we see the haziness on the video?

Yes you could do that - if you do that then you have an opportunity to save on the tax (depending on what state you pick it up in).

Haziness is hard to detect on video unless it's a really bad case.

 

[karylicious]

Yes you could do that - if you do that then you have an opportunity to save on the tax (depending on what state you pick it up in).

Haziness is hard to detect on video unless it's a really bad case.

I am saving the tax which is huge for a Canadian buyer..at this price..

 

[karylicious]

Oh, if you are Canadian, I would recommend calling Martin at USAcertifieddiamonds.com as he is in Toronto and is a recommended vendor. He doesn’t do settings, which is great since you already have one and he is in Toronto and is known to be a rock bottom price guy. I highly recommend you contact him.

U.S.A. Certed Diamonds – #1 Source For Loose Diamonds

usacerteddiamonds.com

I would love to have his prices for my needs, but I’m guessing I would have taxes in Canada whereas buying online in the Us makes me save a lot of money.
I’m curious to know why you don’t like the Vs stone

 

[TODiamonds]

Because you used the word brainwashed. You VERY CLEARLY have not seen a CBI, BG or ACA.

Just to be clear, those are simply branded diamonds. What you guys refer to as "super ideal" is just a marketing term conjured up by the super-ideal marketing departments at the branded companies.

"Super Ideal" is not recognized by people in the industry or trade. It is not a real standard. All it means is a diamond with well cut proportions with good light transmission. There are tons of "super ideals" out there, you can find them from many different vendors.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I am concerned about an SI stone with inclusions under the table. Have you confirmed both are eye clean to your standards?

To most people these diamonds will look identical. Depending how you like to view them, how closely you like to look at the patterning, they will look a bit different. I think you can see how the arrows look different between the two stones, which is a function of their slightly different proportions. Whether you will prefer one over the other, we can't say.

I also think for most people, GIA XXX is all they need to know about cut quality. Whether you want to geek out on the numbers and get something cut to a particular set of parameters or not, well, that is your choice. But I don't think it makes a huge difference to the appearance of the diamond on a daily basis and in regular daily wear.

 

[karylicious]

Just to be clear, those are simply branded diamonds. What you guys refer to as "super ideal" is just a marketing term conjured up by the super-ideal marketing departments at the branded companies.

"Super Ideal" is not recognized by people in the industry or trade. It is not a real standard. All it means is a diamond with well cut proportions with good light transmission. There are tons of "super ideals" out there, you can find them from many different vendors.

You guys are losing me.. ( I’m not really good at this.except for the fact that I want something that looks amazing in my setting
does this mean the Vs diamond is not ok?

 

[karylicious]

I am concerned about an SI stone with inclusions under the table. Have you confirmed both are eye clean to your standards?

To most people these diamonds will look identical. Depending how you like to view them, how closely you like to look at the patterning, they will look a bit different. I think you can see how the arrows look different between the two stones, which is a function of their slightly different proportions. Whether you will prefer one over the other, we can't say.

I also think for most people, GIA XXX is all they need to know about cut quality. Whether you want to geek out on the numbers and get something cut to a particular set of parameters or not, well, that is your choice. But I don't think it makes a huge difference to the appearance of the diamond on a daily basis and in regular daily wear.

I have not seen them live as they are in JA but the people there I’ve written to seen to think the Si might be a bit cloudy because of the spots on the crown, whereas the Vs, they say it is gorgeous. But the Vs has Fluo..

 

[Dreamer_D]

I asked about his and I would take more time to get it there and send it to me. As a am Canadian, and I’m going to the Us next week, it would be faster and easier for me to get the stone, and have a jeweller look at it? If not, i won’t be able to get it in time. And since I have a 30 window to return, would it be wiser to to it this way?

Would we see the haziness on the video?

I would collect the stone you choose in person when you are in the US, and book an appointment with a trusted independent appraiser when you are there. They can help you to evaluate the diamond. I think there is an appraiser list above.

 

[amoline]

I'm (obviously) not a mod, but... in the end we are all on the same team, folks. When our own side discussions are starting to confuse an OP who really just wants help with their diamond (which is happening), we've lost sight of what we should be doing here. And I'm guilty of it too on threads so no feigned innocence here but ...

As @dreamer_dachsie says above, it would certainly be a good idea to have an appraiser give you his or her opinion of a stone, but do inquire as some appraisers have various fees - some may charge you a less amount for a quick overview/opinion whereas some may charge a complete appraisal fee, which obviously can quickly rack up if you're trying to get a few stones looked at. But, once you do decide definitively, definitely seek out an appraiser.

 

[whitewave]

OP, since you asked why I wouldn’t choose #2 it’s because I don’t like spready 60/60 diamonds (generally speaking, as I wouldn’t rule them out). I prefer small tables and high crowns, swoon. I don’t prefer a 33 crown angle, though the 75% LGF is desirable for nice fat arrows.

I also think it could have clarity issues for a vs2 and I’m concerned about the crystals, as they are the grade setting issue for clarity. Are they black or white crystals? Some are on the table and in an over 2 carat stone, that might bug the tick out of you if you can see them. I’d have to see it to evaluate it more.

Plus, I am a fire and sparkle person over bright flashes. If you want to check out my IG, it’s yatcube. I have videos of my asscher, and the CBI sapphire stone. I’m not suggesting you get a superideal since it’s likely out of your budget though BG is having some Black Friday sales and I haven’t checked his website or WF... which btw, WF next category below ACA is I believe expert selection which includes stones that would have made ACA but since they have Fluor they didn’t, so it may very well be worth checking the expert selection there.