Where should my priorities be?

[j03yk]

n00b here; I''d first like to say that this site/forum has been invaluable since my recent decision to pop the big question! Thanks to all who offer guidance and help.

I''ve found that as I have done more and more research, I have inevitably become more and more concerned with quality over quantity. Since I am trying to stay within a budget (<$5000), I started looking at lower carat diamonds with better overall characteristics. After taking a little time off from the frantic search however, I''ve realized that I may be overshooting my requirements for a diamond. I know that I want an ideal cut, but I''m thinking now that I should sacrifice some of the other qualities in order to achieve the 1 carat mark (what the girlfriend would want

).

My problem is that I know about all the stats and gradings, but I don''t have much real world experience with the differences. I don''t really care about what''s on paper if I won''t be able to actually see the differences on my own. I just want a diamond that is going to look stunning, and my impression is that there isn''t much visual difference between something like an F,VS1 and an H,SI1 to anyone other than an expert.

My question then is: Can I get something like an ideal cut 1 carat H,SI1 diamond that will still be visually stunning, or should I go with a smaller stone with better cut and clarity?

 

[canadiangrrl]

The simple answer to your question is a resounding yes.

An eyeclean SI1 or SI2 clarity stone will help you maximize your carat weight. I believe you are right in not being overly concerned about what you can't see.

In terms of colour, it really depends on your ability to discern colour in diamonds...I would have no problem in recommending a well cut H round brilliant in your size range.

 

[strmrdr]

H or I and eyeclean si1 is a sweet spot in a great cut for getting the most size while maintaining awesome looks.
In some places an I grade carries a stigma because it is pushed as a low budget choice for people who cant afford the good stuff at some places.
We know better but it is a consideration.
The h grade avoids this.

 

[j03yk]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm glad I got some reassurances in my selection criteria. As with most products, it's easy to get caught up in all the glamour and tend to want the very best that's available, even if that's not really what you need/want. If only I had a limitless supply of money, then there'd be no problem!

 

[strmrdr]

yep if we all had unlimited money then we would all have d-if diamonds 20ct h&a and mined on an astroid.
:}

 

[Mara]

20ct? At least 40ct for me!

 

[strmrdr]

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On 12/4/2003 2:11:28 AM Mara wrote:



20ct? At least 40ct for me!

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ok ok a 40 for you :}
check you pm box.

 

[sxn675]

You can get something great for your budget. You can get an H-SI1 branded H&A stone that's about .95 carats and a simple platinum setting for $5000 (I know because I picked out my own stone and setting on a similar budget). But, the stones between .95 and 1.00 carats go very quickly, so make sure to be vigilant about your searching. Good luck!

 

[Groovy Chick]

I totally agree. To me, it's a waste of money paying for qualities that don't make a visual difference to the masses. I mean, okay if everyone walked around with loupes in their pocket it might be a different story! The bottom line is, if you can hit that magic 1 carat mark with your lady's favourite shape stone, then so long as it's no lower than an eye-clean H she will be over-the-moon.




My boyfriend proposed to me last week with the ring of my choice - 1.54ct, G, SI2, pear, and i adore it. I wouldn't go higher than an F and feel my G is a nice compromise. The fact is, size speaks for itself, whereas if you have a "high quality" but small diamond then you have to actually TELL people it's specs in order to get glory which, to me, is really tacky! You end up sounding desperate to impress. Just my humble opinion.




Also, you may want to do some subtle investigation to make sure she definately wants a round stone. I know they're technically "ideal", but women's brains don't center around logic the way a man's does, and some of us get our heart set on a particular fancy shape for various reasons. I'm one of them!




Pear Princess

 

[fire&ice]

Bottom line is most gals just want a pretty sizeable stone. In a round brilliant this can even be accomplished with a well cut (hear that I did not say super duper louper ideal) I-J/SI stone. Side by side you may be able to see a color difference between more colorless stones; but, once set face up, a I/J will be near colorless.

Unfortunately one has to go by "specs" of the 4c's. But, I feel many get caught up with them. When, in the end, most just want a pretty sparkley diamond ring of some quality. Buying a properly graded well cut I/J, you are way ahead of the game than if you went to the maul stores.

You could afford a full 1c in the I/J range with plenty left for a great setting for 5K.

Good luck.

 

[j03yk]

Congrats Pear Princess! Thanks for the advice. I tried some subtle sleuthing a while back and it seemed like she was leaning towards the round, so hopefully that's the right choice. If not I'll just tell her she's not being logical

...on second thought, maybe I should try a little more detective work hehe.

 

[Jolie]

I just wanted to chime in with an alternative view point. I believe there should be a limit to the sacrifices someone makes solely for the sake of getting the biggest engagement diamond (other diamonds don't matter so much to me because they are not necessarily symbols of anything). There is (to me) noticable color in an H stone (just color sensitive I guess - I am usually unable to see any flaws down to SI2, so I know my eyes are not particularly sharp).

I don't think having a large (and very flawed stone) to impress strangers is any less tacky than having to tell a stranger it's a D-Fl to impress them. Any attempt to "impress" other people (by either size or clarity/color/whatever) is, IMHO, tacky in itself.

But you should care about what your girlfriend wants, as your two opinions on the stone are the only ones that matter. And there are females out there who are not primarily concerned with carat. There is a warm and fuzzy feeling to be had from knowing (regardless of whether or not any strangers or casual acquaintances know it) that you have a rare stone, even if under 1 carat. And a well-cut, D-F color stone will flash impressively regardless of size. We sacrificed size for cut and color and I've never seen a more beautiful stone. Part of my love may be psychological from knowing the stone's specs - but that still still counts!

Anyway, if your girlfriend wants to impress people with the sheer size of her stone, then forget everything I just said and make her happy. But be sure that is what she really wants, because not all females are that way. Some may be disappointed to learn that the stone that represents her husband's love is seriously flawed - on the other hand some may want to flash a 2 carat regardless of clarity/color. Maybe you can experiment by noticing other women's rings and see what her reaction is ("who cares about flaws, look at the size - she's so lucky!" or "yeah, that big ring is gaudy and the stone doesn't even look white").

 

[fire&ice]

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On 12/4/2003 3:34:49 PM Jolie wrote:


Anyway, if your girlfriend wants to impress people with the sheer size of her stone, then forget everything I just said and make her happy. --

It's not about what *you* want. It's about what he *stated* his girlfriend wants.

Why are you under the assumption that just because one has a large stone they:
1. Must have sacrificed quality for size
2. Must have large rock to impress others

Maybe your diamond's not flawed; but, your logic certainly is.

 

[Mara]

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On 12/4/2003 3:34:49 PM Jolie wrote:











Some may be disappointed to learn that the stone that represents her husband's love is seriously flawed

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Please! The stone is a stone. It doesn't represent any amount of LOVE given...it's a symbol of a promise to be married and join your lives together. I can never get on-board with this frame of thinking.

As for 'seriously flawed', that is relative and every person would be different. Your seriously flawed may be H SI2..and in my eyes that would just be 'smart shopping'. To each their own.

 

[Jolie]

Um, ok. But I think that if you read my post again, you'll see that I am simply advocating for j03yk to find out whether his girlfriend's priorities are solely the size of the stone. Because that is not the priority of EVERY woman (although it obviously is for some, which I ackowledged).

As for "a stone is a stone" - I personally don't believe so. I DO agree that a stone does NOT equal love, but I would sell my diamond earrings in a second if I needed the money, while I would try to hold out as long as possible before I let the wedding ring go, so some stones do hold more symbolism to me. But, whatever - like you said, to each his own.

And I'm pretty sure I did not call an SI2 "seriously flawed" because I specifically stated that I cannot even SEE a flaw in an SI2 stone. I did, however, state that I can see color in an H stone, which I very definitely can. If that doesn't bother anyone (some people prefer the color) then more power to them. But not every woman wants a yellow stone.

And I am not advocating people to spend as much money as possibly on something as trivial as jewelry (I did state that trying to impress anyone with your jewerly is tacky). But for the money that a couple does intend to spend, sometimes small and precious can give as much joy as large and flawed, and I stand by that statement. So whether you want to spend $500, $5,000, or $50,000 - consider all 4 C's - not just carat weight. Of course it's a trade-off between the 4 C's to get the best diamond for whatever finite amount of money you want to spend. My bottom line was that different people value different aspects of the 4C's, so it's best to recognize that fact before purchasing.

 

[Jolie]

You know what, forget everything I previously said. I was responding to other responses in the thread instead of responding to the original post, which is what I should have done. I apologize for that.

Here's my revised answer to j03yk in a nutshell:

I believe that most SI1 stones will be "visually stunning" if cut well, so that shouldn't be a concern (my naked eyes never pick up the inclusions). Although an inclusion on the table might be visible; it all depends on the size and location of the inclusions on any individual stone. But if you just want eye-clean, no need to spring for a VVS or VS, usually.

As for color, I personally can see color in an H stone (I'm sorry, but I can). But many people apparently cannot. So the H-SI1 stone may suit you. My 2 cents.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 12/4/2003 4:22:53 PM Jolie wrote:

Um, ok My bottom line was that different people value different aspects of the 4C's, so it's best to recognize that fact before purchasing. ----------------

If that is your bottom line then fine. You have a right to this opinion.

Reread your post. It is when you are convinced that one sacrifices quality to get a large stone. Or, that you are convinced that someone buys said large stone simply to impress others. And the equation to flawed diamond = flawed relationship is just plain irresponsible.

Reread your orginal post & most of your posts. You have the right to your preferences. But to transcend your preference to state that anyone without a D/IF stone is shallow (only cares what others think & sacrifices quality *only* to *afford* a larger stone to impress) is crossing the line.

Quite frankly, I wouldn't buy a D/IF stone as IMHO, it doesn't represent a certain value that *I* expect. And, I put my views forth to these young men to express that what "preceived" quality may not be quality in the reality of the eye. If they still choose the D/IF with full support of their to be, then more power to them.

This boy wants to buy a stone that pleases his fiance. I think that is admirable. He put his preference for a "preceived" quality stone aside to get the love of his life what *she* desires - size.

All posts have pointed to good value in relation to size for his budget.

 

[aljdewey]

.......and adding on to F&I's thoughts for just a minute......




There are many women who want larger stones because it impresses *them*, not because it impresses others.




I just went through this myself (on a much smaller scale!).....I started looking for a .95, ended up with a 1.244. Why? Because I could get that size without making sacrifices on color/clarity that were outside of my comfort zone.




I would have been happy with the .95 stone....absolutely. But I KNOW the 1.24 will look better on my hand (most of my other jewelry is moderate sized too.....not so big that I can't lift my hand, but you don't have to strain to see it, either.) I wouldn't have dropped down to a K color to get that size.




I'll enjoy wearing the 1.244 tremendously, but I'll also feel a bit self-conscious that others will think we 1) have a ton of money or 2) spent a fortune. I don't like to draw attention to myself. But I didn't pick the stone for anyone else will think, I picked it because it pleases me.

 

[fire&ice]

let me do this again.

 

[Mara]

Don't lie AL...you know that you picked it to please ME!




I knew I'd hook you in somehow. Remind me to slip WF that $20 later...HAH.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 12/4/2003 5:32:52 PM aljdewey wrote:


div>

----------------

Edited because I have no idea why my quote from Al's post didn't go through.

Anyway, Al, All along I thought you picked this stone because you are a savvy buyer!

 

[canadiangrrl]

An H is not a yellow stone. Definitionally speaking, it's in the near colourless band. K-L-M is defined as 'faint tint of color.'

I can see slight color in a properly graded H - when it's in a fancy stone (particularly the princess & any step cut stones) - when it's a large stone (the smaller the stone, the less body colour you will see - and when a well cut round H is placed next to a D-E-F. I have 20/15 vision.

As far as inclusions go, it depends on the shape, nature, location, and colour of the inclusions. My stone is an AGS graded I1. Yes, I said I1 - oh, the humanity.

I cannot locate the inclusions with my naked eye - they're feathers and twinning wisps. However, I've seen SI2's and I1's with black inclusions and eye-visible crystals.

If you want size within your budget parameters, drop the clarity and/or colour. If you don't feel that size is important, don't. It's simple, and it depends largely on what you and your intended value in a stone. An H SI2 is a fine stone. There's no right or wrong here, but I would agree with F&I - most women that I know would sacrifice a little 'quality' in the colour & clarity department if it meant they could get a somewhat bigger stone. So there are usually trade-offs...I wanted a colourless stone, so I got an F - not a D. I wanted something in the range of 1.15 to 1.25, so I got a 1.18 RB. I wanted it to be eyeclean, and we happened to find an eyeclean I1. Above all, my stone had to be exceptionally well cut.

And Al, you went up in size to please Mara, and you bought that stone to avoid The Wrath. Be honest.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 12/4/2003 6:19:47 PM canadiangrrl wrote:


And Al, you went up in size to please Mara, and you bought that stone to avoid The Wrath. Be honest.

----------------

Oh but maybe..........it's because IT'S BIGGER than Mara's....

just kidding.....keep us posted.

 

[Mara]

But its NOT bigger!! Well .01c....BUT mine has the diameter of a 1.35c

So I've got carat weight in all the right places!! Hee.




Oh Greeeeggg...I need an upgrade ASAP!!

 

[Jolie]

To respond to recent posts, I did not say large stones are shallow - I said that trying to IMPRESS anyone with the size of the stone is shallow - and for that matter, so is trying to impress anyone by buying a D color, or an FL, or a boat, or Mercedes, or whatever. If you like it, great, but don't get something just because you think others will be impressed. I stand by that.

And my original comment was in response to an earlier post, which I chose not to quote in my first comment, but here it is (no author),

"The fact is, size speaks for itself, whereas if you have a "high quality" but small diamond then you have to actually TELL people it's specs in order to get glory which, to me, is really tacky! You end up sounding desperate to impress."

So this earlier post suggested that one could "get glory" and "impress" with a large stone that "speaks for itself" without having to sound "desparate" like people who own "high quality but small diamonds." My point is that you should not have the goal of "getting glory" in the first place - whether it's with a large stone or a D color, or whatever - it's ALL EQUALLY SHALLOW. Ok?

And every stone IS a compromise between the 4C's. As I stated in another post, if you have a finite amount of money, then going up in size means coming down on color and clarity and cut. Because the amount of money that you budgeted in the first place remains that same amount.

Some people seem to think that if I value color, cut, and clarity over size, I am denigrating other people's values, which is not true. But to give the impression, as some of the earlier posts did, that all women only want the largest stone possible to show off is untrue. Not all women feel that way, and there are enough posters here to champion the larger carats, but you should allow that there are people who place carat at the bottom of the 4C's, too.

My ranking of the 4C's in no way puts down anyone else's. But please leave room in these forums for people who rank the 4C's differently than you do.

And finally (!) I really do not think (as someone misquoted me as saying) that "anyone without a D/IF stone is shallow." Now that's just silly and goes against my beliefs that shallow people are the ones trying to impress others (which means the shallow ones could very well be the owners of D/IF stones!).

I think a guy should buy a stone that makes he and she happy, while juggling the 4C's to fit within their budget. But I don't advocate buying a stone with an eye on what others will think. That's the bottom line and I don't know how those lines got crossed.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 12/4/2003 5:40:50 PM Mara wrote:







Don't lie AL...you know that you picked it to please ME!




I knew I'd hook you in somehow. Remind me to slip WF that $20 later...HAH.

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(Meekly) I have learned that resistance is futile.

I think I've been assimilated! LMAO

It's very IMPORTANT for participants here to know.......the most important thing is PLEASE MARA.

It's a unwritten law. LMAO

 

[aljdewey]

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On 12/4/2003 5:41:38 PM fire&ice wrote:

p]




Anyway, Al, All along I thought you picked this stone because you are a savvy buyer!

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Uuuuuuhhhhhhh.....Yeah, F&I.....that's the ticket! I bought it because I'm a savvy buyer!

(It has absolutely NOTHING to do with Mara's having smacked me on the back of the head, saying "THIS ONE!)

Actually, I picked it because Mara and Canadiangrrl threatened to come to my house and pummel me if I didn't have something picked by tomorrow. I've been getting "YOU HAVE 23.5 HOURS LEFT" deadline notices......LOL

 

[aljdewey]

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On 12/4/2003 8:16:45 PM Jolie wrote:





Because the amount of money that you budgeted in the first place remains that same amount.

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HA..HA.....that's the funniest thing I've read all year! In more than a year on this forum, I can count on two hands (or maybe even one) the number of folks whose budgets didn't expand.

(Genuinely laughing Jolie.......not at you....not at all, so please take no offense. It's funny because it's SOOO what the guys would like to think, and it's SO not the case!! LOL)

The budgets here have expanded faster and more frequently here than the middle-age paunch!

 

[Mara]

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On 12/4/2003 8:27:34 PM aljdewey wrote:

(It has absolutely NOTHING to do with Mara's having smacked me on the back of the head, saying 'THIS ONE!)
----------------

Repeated smackings FINALLY worked. Thank GOD...I was getting worried.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 12/4/2003 7:51:14 PM Mara wrote:







But its NOT bigger!! Well .01c....BUT mine has the diameter of a 1.35c

So I've got carat weight in all the right places!! Hee.




Oh Greeeeggg...I need an upgrade ASAP!!

----------------

Yeah.....I forgot to mention that was the caveat........"BUY BIG, BIG, BIG, but just NOT as big as Mara's!"

ROFLMAO.....

And yes, Sara.....the Wrath was a very powerful and motivating force.

You guys are great.....I couldn't have done it without you and your humor. Thanks