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glt4392

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2003
Messages
31
Guys,
a couple of days ago I posted a message trying to get some comments on the stone bellow. Most responses I felt, said that this cut was short of ideal, that the gd/v. good rate was low and that I could do better for the price. Well, I need some advise, I am willing to let go of the D coloras long as we stay in the colorless range in order to get that ideal cut. The problem is that for a long time I have looked and failed to find anything that looked better or had the right conbination. I have stayed within the bigger names like bluenile, mondera and diamond.com. Can you guys name some other reputable dealers so I can broaden my search? the budget is 9000 and we are looking for a colorless, 1.20 vt+, ideal cut.

thank you,

color D
clarity SI1,
1.33 ct,
7.16-7.12-4.32
crown agle/height=33 degrees/13.9%, pavilion depth=43.1%,angle 40.9 table=57% symetry=v. good, polish=good, no flourencence, girdle is medium per GIA/ thin to slightly thick per sarin report, certified by gia with a sarin report
The price is $8600 and there are no inclusion visible to the naked eye, only one pinpoint visible under a 10x loupe. Scores at .7 in the cut adviser.
 

jpdoane

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Messages
53
How about these?

http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_21ct_e_vs1.htm
http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_21ct_g_si1.htm
http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_27ct_e_vs2_h&a.htm

Two are *slightly* over your budget, and the other is significantly under, but its color G (which is very nearly colorless - but yeah, I know what you mean about wanting perfection - however, I went to a local jewelry store and I couldn't tell a difference down to I or J)

Anyway, this is just to get you started. I am buying my diamond from GOG - they are very well thought of here on pricescope. In fact, they offer the most info on thier diamonds that I have found anywhere (which for me locked me into buying from them, since I was hooked on needing all the data - smart move, Jonathan!). Anyway, what I would do is read up about the HCA here on pricescope, then use the search by cut quality feature on the main pricescope page, and stick with HCA scores below 2.
 

Hest88

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
Messages
4,357
This is just from one vendor, and only from analyzed-to-death ones as well. There are plenty of others out there, that I know others people will uncover!

F color, 1.25 H&A http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_25ct_f_si1_h&a.htm

G color, 1/33 H&A
http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_33ct_g_vs2_h&a.htm
 

jpdoane

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Messages
53
Sorry, I reread your post and realise I didn't quite answer your question. If you search on Pricescope, any dealer listed here will be reputable, and you can look on the vendor page for a comparison of features, etc.

Some good ones:
Good old gold (http://www.goodoldgold.com/rounds.htm)
Whiteflash
nice ice

Again, search by cut quality and look at the vedors listed there. You will see the same names. I too started out looking on BN, Modera, but sook learned enough about cut that I wasn't comfortable buying w/o enough information that those sites didn't provide.
 

hoorray

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 16, 2003
Messages
2,798
I learned through this forum that there are serveral types of vendors. Some hold their own inventory and some basically broker off lists, and some do both. The amount of service will vary, but in general, you can be safe buying from any of them if you do the following:

1. Have the diamond sent to an independent appraiser for evaluation (not someone who sells diamonds -- most of the vendors on this list can refer you to someone in your area. There is a list of some of the best here on pricescope.)

2. Don't pay for the diamond until you have had it evaluated/appraised -- especially from one of the lesser known brokers.

If you do these 2 things you should be protected, and if you use the tools like the HCA and the expert opinions on this forum you should be able to find a great stone. It worked great for me! I purchsed from USA Certed Diamonds, who brokers diamonds, and has a very large list available.

good luck
 

trichrome

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2002
Messages
397
I feel that people always recommand the same companies while
they didnt even bought from these guys. Dont get me wrong but there are thousands of people selling
diamonds in the US. I dont really think that anyone
need to be taken by the hand to do a net search to find
a couple of good ones.

Trichrome.
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
9,144

----------------
On 7/18/2003 1:30:21 PM trichrome wrote:
I feel that people always recommand the same companies while
they didnt even bought from these guys. Dont get me wrong but there are thousands of people selling
diamonds in the US. I dont really think that anyone
need to be taken by the hand to do a net search to find
a couple of good ones.

Trichrome.----------------
This theme....the same vendors getting recommended, has come up several times from many in the last month or two, so allow me for a moment to interject my two cents on that, for what it's worth.

Yup, Tri, you're correct. I haven't personally bought from the vendors I typically recommend, but that doesn't mean I don't have good information to share based on following this forum for 7-8 months and learning a great deal about the vendors and about diamonds.

In fact, it amazes me that anyone bothers to make recommendations anymore because it seems that posters are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Tim spoke up on behalf of Superbcert about two months ago, and his input was discounted with the response "well, of course you'd say that because you are a customer of his." Yet, recommend someone you haven't bought from, and then it's "how can you recommend someone you haven't ever bought from?" There's no way to make folks happy.

It shouldn't come as any surprise that those companies who offer more detailed information will get recommended repeatedly, and those who don't offer a wealth of information don't get mentioned. The same companies get recommended over and over because they've EARNED it. They have: 1) provided information that research nuts like us respond to, 2) conducted themselves like professionals on this board without degenerating into foot-stamping, and 3) have produced many satisfied customers that also recommend them. Any company who amasses a similar track record would, I'm sure, get similarly recommended. Companies who feel they aren't getting the "airtime" should look at what they aren't doing and what the other guys are doing to see how they can command the same kind of attention.

You're right....there are thousands of companies out there selling diamonds, and if you personally feel they are being neglected, then you should certainly feel free to recommend some of those lesser known entities yourself.

Lastly, some people here DO want to be taken by the hand; they don't want to get fleeced, but they don't enjoy the research as much as some of us here do. They prefer to ask known research hounds for their opinions. Regardless of that, I don't see responding to a request as "leading someone by the hand"; if they ask for info, and I feel I have a valuable contribution to make, then I'll make it. I make no apologies for recommending the same people repeatedly. It's not the responsibility of any participant here to make sure that vendors get "equal" time.

Just my humble perspective on this.
 

oldminer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 3, 2000
Messages
6,396
We rarely recommend one vendor or even a group of vendors. It seems unfair to recommend anyone when we make an effort to stay independent of those who offer diamonds for sale. Truthfully, the best vendors stand out well above the rest when it comes to service, courtesy and attention to detail.

Now, some of the best prices are to be found with second or third level vendors who don't give all the amenities. Sometimes being treated especially well is important to a customer, sometimes it isn't. That is an individual matter of opinion.

When a vendor meets all YOUR expectations, you should fee free to compliment them. If they fail in some regard, then it is not unfair to tell us how you feel, too. The cream always rises to the top. It isn't really a secret.
 

NagsHead

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 2, 2003
Messages
34
aljdewey, I could not agree more. People come to this forum to become educated, get advice, then make a huge purchase, and hopefully come back and share their experiences so that others can benefit.
 

glt4392

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2003
Messages
31
I have done 2 months worth of searching and reading to make the most informed decision possible. I am an educated person like all of us here but when it comes to buying a 9000 dollar diamond and paying cash ONLINE and WITHOUT ever having the stone in your hands is to me very hard to do. I know about cut and color and clarity and have read everything that is available in most sites but when I have a perfect color diamond and it is GIA certified not AGS and it is off by a degree and I may be able to get better somewhere else, blah, blah....this situation is when asking knowledgeable experts like alll of you is very important and valuable for guys like myself. I just don't have the experience or knowledge to be able to know that for that price I can find better somwhere else, or that one degree on the crown angle may make that much of a difference....This board is more, in my opinion, than a chance for the experts to post their perfect new stones and have everyone else admire them. For me it has been a place where I can have people with knowledge I would otherwise not have HELP in a very important decision and a BIG purchase. This is specially true online...yes there are a 1000 dealers online, but half of them will try to sell you crap, most of the rest don't have the certificates online or God knows who is at the other end. So it is again people like you who know where someone who is probably only going to buy one loose diamond in his life (I hope because it is giving me a headache!) can buy safely and with confidence come into play. So yes, if asking for help is asking to "be walked by the hand" then great! I would probably even get a diaper on and get on a stroller so I can be pushed along...as long as I am happy with what I buy and I can say to others I know "go ask at this forum, they helped me and made things so much easier".
and that is the opinion of someone who is here because I need to be....
thanks for the responses..
 

rktilleryj

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2003
Messages
9
Let me just say that this site has been invaluable to me and obviously to a lot of other "novices" who are in the market for a diamond. I have had a lot of questions that I felt were important to me answered by a number of regular posters on this board and I am grateful for the help. That being said, I have noticed some inconsistencies when the subject of vendors comes up. Some threads (including this one) I have read recommend specific vendors that have links to this website. I personally find nothing wrong with that. However, I have read other threads where other vendors were recommended and the result were posts containing comments like "oh, you must work for this vendor" or "shall we trace his IP address?". (i.e. Dimonds for Less thread:
https://www.pricescope.com/forum/topic6019.html)

I am by no means a regular on this board and maybe that doesn't give me the right to question the nature of the dialogue that is presented on it. However, a little clarification and opinion on this subject would be welcomed.
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
9,144
----------------
On 7/18/2003 3:35:18 PM rktilleryj wrote:

Let me just say that this site has been invaluable to me and obviously to a lot of other "novices" who are in the market for a diamond. I have had a lot of questions that I felt were important to me answered by a number of regular posters on this board and I am grateful for the help. That being said, I have noticed some inconsistencies when the subject of vendors comes up. Some threads (including this one) I have read recommend specific vendors that have links to this website. I personally find nothing wrong with that. However, I have read other threads where other vendors were recommended and the result were posts containing comments like "oh, you must work for this vendor" or "shall we trace his IP address?". (i.e. Dimonds for Less thread:
https://www.pricescope.com/forum/topic6019.html)

I am by no means a regular on this board and maybe that doesn't give me the right to question the nature of the dialogue that is presented on it. However, a little clarification and opinion on this subject would be welcomed.


----------------

Hi, KT. Welcome. Of course you have the right to question what you read here. Questioning leads to understanding, and that's always a good thing.

The skepticism surrounding the "diamonds for less" thread, in my estimation, had nothing to do with the fact that the vendor recommended wasn't a "regular" vendor recognized here. Rather, it was the canned, sales-ey, forced nature of the testimonial that sparked the skepticism.

A few likely reasons for this skepticism:

1. The enthusiastic poster has only been registered for a few weeks, and has only posted four times. While there is nothing inherently wrong with this, it's not typical. Most contributors come here, spend a few months, post a bunch of questions, finally reach a buying decision, and THEN write a testimonial. that's much different than someone who comes out of nowhere with a glowing testimonial....hard to know what the motive is for that, especially when the language of the testimonial is so pushy.

As a matter of example, say that John Doe comes here, spends a few months asking questions, finally buys a diamond but it's from a vendor no one here has ever heard of, I doubt anyone would be skeptical of John's motives in posting the testimonial. They've been with him for the few months of his search and know he simply wants to share his experience with a vendor.


2. The content was seemingly scripted: "I have priced and shopped many, many, many, diamond stores and I can tell you with certainty that they have the best quality and by far prices"...."I strongly recommend you visit them and see what they have to offer, what do you have to lose?".... "I suggest calling in advance and give them some information on what you are looking for and how much you want to spend and then book an appointment."...."(I)save(d) thousands compared to the other retailer and wholesalers I went to. My ring is incredible and my friend who referred my has a beautiful ring as well."

This person doesn't refer to any of the tools that are commonly regarded here as important(Sarins, certs, b/scope, etc.)...doesn't say "they have all kinds of documentation, etc to back up the quality of the diamonds". All he says is, take MY word for it, I found a place with superior quality and at prices that cannot be had anywhere else. Sorry, but that sounds like a bunch of hooey to me.

3. Most people offering sincere, unbiased testimonials don't tell people to "call in advance and book an appointment".

All of these things raise the "solicitation" warning bells for the regulars here. That's why folks smell the proverbial "something rotten in Denmark."

Hope that helps to answer your excellent questions.
 

69gm

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 28, 2003
Messages
287
hi glt4392,

some places to check out are goodoldgold.com, niceice.com, whiteflash.com, and superbcert.com. they all offer great stones and good service.

any reason you continue to look for a "D" color diamond? stones all the way down to "I", and in some instances "J" and "K" will look white, set in white gold or platinum. going down in color will allow you spend your money on the cut which is more important.

you're right on about looking at SI1's. lots of eye-clean ones out there.

$9000 is a decent amount to spend for a nice stone. i'm sure you'll find what you're looking for. try one of the vendors i listed, or do a search here on pricescope. good luck.
 

Stephan

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Messages
2,917
I only feel comfortable with VS2 or better.
But a lot of SI-1, even SI-2 are eye-clean.
Have a look at GOG, Jonathan has a lot of eye-clean SI's.
Regards,
 

glt4392

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2003
Messages
31
Thanks all for the great leads!
In response to whether I am still looking for an D color stone....No, I am now looking for colorless stones (D,E,F) and will probably accept G if the stone is bigger than a 1.25. Again, going for that "perfect" cut and the most sparkle. I have seen many posts refering to how even down to K will look white when set....I went to two local dealers here when looking into jewerly stores. I put some of their stones, an E color, next to an H and then an I on a white sheet of printer paper I had brought with me since they both showed stones in an "off-white" pad. They were all GIA certified with the serial laser inscribed. You could see the slight tint on the H and I stones in some light angles. So just as a personal preference, I would like to stay at the highest color without sacrificing cut.
Another reason, and this is again a guy thing.....The Miss comes from a
"well-off" family. I do not but want to give her a high quality stone. Her mom has a D color, 2 ct diamond, a friend just got a 3 ct emerald cut and another a 1.5 E color with yellow canary diamonds on the side from Mayor's for which I am sure he had to pawn the house and car for :). So, this stone will be evaluated by many who don't know what the people here do and only see the color and ct weight in the report. If there is a K color stone in her ring with a hint of yellow and it is put next to a D color with notisable difference it may ruin it for her and I can just imagine her Moms comments. I know it sounds stupid but I don't want her to have to hear it from her family or friends about "why did he go so low in color" and while I am sure and counting on the fact that none of those stones will have the fire and cut grade that I will get with the knowledge found here and with your help, It would not be good if the MISS puts that stone next to her moms and because I got an K color you can see a difference and even if ther is not, just the mental aspect of her knowing that her stone is 5 levels or so lower in color (which most people who don't know any better consider a BIG deal...) may be worth going into the colorless range.
thanks again,
 

jpdoane

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Messages
53
Sounds like you're on the right track.
Remember - all that matters is what *she* wants. If its more important to get a higher color and sacrifice some sparkle (if thats really what she wants) then by all means, go for it. Nobody can tell you what your criteria needs to be, although they can offer great advice and information (such as, you can't tell the difference in a set stone between D and G). The balance of the 4-Cs are going to be different in everybodys mind and therefore you need to decide for yourself - the 'best' diamond is different for everyone. Some people will pay twice as much for an IF stone, even though you can't tell a nit of difference between it and a good SI1, just because they want a 'perfect' diamond. It all depends on whats important for you, and actual visual performance may not be the end all be all for everybody.
Good for you in going to a store and looking at different stones. Its really easy here on the net to nitpick over minute differences without having a real feel for what impact it has.
Also, in my opinion, don't feel like you need to keep up with her mother, etc. If you start now, it'll never end when you get married, and you need to decide who you're living for. If you judge yourself by their standard, you'll never measure up, and you'll always be behind the 8 ball. If you decide not to try, and not to let them manipulate you, then you and your wife will be much happier. Personally, I would get her the best stone you can afford, and forget what her family thinks. If you dont want to, you don't have to tell anyone what color the thing is, let it speak for itself!

God Bless you on your search!
-Jon
 

Stephan

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Messages
2,917
If you buy an ideal cut, then buy a G-color.
Tell her family that it's a D.
They wont see the difference.
 

smaggard

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 9, 2003
Messages
81
I was looking to spend the same amount, and faced similar concerns (wanting colorless, not seeing the stone up front from an online vendor etc)
I ended up getting a rock from USACerted and Superbcert. Had it checked by RockDoc and all is well (he assured me that this G had no yellowish or anything like that). Haven't got it yet, when Vatche is done setting it (they were on vacation) I should have it this week and will post pics and such.
It's a 1.21 G VVS1 by the way.

 

lucy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 2, 2002
Messages
55
my stone is an H and I really honestly can't tell. i agree with getting a lower color and telling everyone its higher-half the people you meet wont understand the color chart anyway and they people who do will have to be jewelers to tell the diff.
 

jpdoane

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Messages
53
I'm of the opinion that lying is not the best option. If you feel confident in buying the best diamond you can afford, then you have nothing to be ashamed about. If people want to look down on you for deciding to be a smart shopper and focusing on what actually affects the beauty, as opposed to what does not, then so be it. Do you really want to live your life trying to please only the shallowest of people?

There once was a story of an Emperor who wanted a new diamond. All the diamond merchants came to show him their wares. The top diamond merchant in the land showed him two identically priced stones. 'See, how much more beautiful this D VVS1 is? Its so much better than the G VS2. Those that *really* have taste can appriciate the difference.' Although the Emperor actually thought the G VS2 looked bigger and more sparkly, he agreed that the D VVS1 look far superior, because he didn't want to appear crude and unsophisticated...
 

glt4392

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2003
Messages
31
thank you jpdoane for the comments. I am still going to look at the colorless stones and maybe a G. It is not to live up to the soon to be mother in law (I hope) it is just so my girlfriend will feel like the stone is a high quality stone since that is the thing they all place a premium on. And like you said, "it is all about what SHE wants". Here I have learned that nothing will come close to a perfectly cut diamond. So, I will look for the best diamond I can get at the F, G range and if I find that E, D bargain then I great! I am sure the stones all of you describe here that are K, I in color are amazyingly beautiful. If this stone was going on my finger then I would get the biggest, best cut H stone I could find. The thing is that some people find color as a symbol of quality and rareness. They are worth a premium because not everyone can get a colorless stone they feel is big enough. So without going for the D I can still give her a colorless stone. The thought of telling them it is a D when I got a H is not even an option. While true they would probably not be able to tell (I am sure I did when I put a d and an H together in a store against a white sheet of paper under some angles of light by the way...but maybe it was a mental thing that I knew which was better in color so I saw what I thought I had to see...) the fact that it is not the truth would get things started on the wrong foot. When I insure the stone and when she asks me to describe the stone, I would love nothing more than to hand her over the certification, sarin report, loupe, and the print out of the brilliancescope, etc and a print out of what the "perfect" cut should be according to AGS and other sources so she can look at all aspects of the stone and know she got quality...and so she feels some of the same pain I felt trying to make sense of it all....
thank you all,
you are very helpfull
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Putting my two cents in here for G consideration...my G is very white (it's high on white brilliance) and there was no noticeable difference when compared loose against an E. So if you find your budget strained, buy an excellently cut G (cut makes HUGE difference when looking for color), VS and get a bigger stone with an excellent cut, you will definitely be able to be proud. I think you mentioned $9k for the stone..(or maybe entire thing)..in any case you can get an excellent cut 1.25c G VS stone for around $7000-8000 most likely so you are on the right track IMO. You may even be able to go with F if you want to stay at that stone size.

That said, follow the other recommendations and shop the great online vendors who give tons of info on their stones, it makes it easier
GOG, WF, SC, NiceIce...Diamond Brokers of Florida has unbranded H&A's and has gotten alot of raves, DirtCheapDiamonds has gotten some raves too but you have to ask for more info on the stones and they are wholesaler held so getting pix etc can be a pain sometimes.

There are tons of vendors out there but some definitely stand out above others in the quality of their service and the stones they sell. Best of luck and stay grounded!
 

jpdoane

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Messages
53
I know exactly how you feel. I don't mean to contradict my last post, but there is something to be said about the intagibles of colorlessness/etc, thats hard to quantify. I think its so much easier to advise others to go lower on color/clarity, but when you're making the purchase yourself, you want the absolute best. I got a VS2, just because I wasn't comfortable buying a SI1 sight unseen over the internet. I also wanted to stay within the colorless range. I was willing to sacrifice qualities that were impossible to discern w/o a microscope/loupe, but unwilling to sacrifice something that might look anything less than perfect to the naked eye (thus I was willing to consider G-I, but much more comfortable with D-F).

Let us know how it turns out.

I admire your integrity too about telling the truth about the specs.

-Jon
 
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