When you work with a vendor do you think they should be able to contact you whenever they like?

[strmrdr]

Date: 4/26/2009 1:38:30 AM
Author: KtIceRN

fangirlism is worse.
PS is about the free and open exchange of ideas.
It is a legit topic of conversation.
Every vendor from time to time takes a few knocks and the good ones come out of it better than before.
It is obvious that several people have an issue with some contact policy changes at WF... If WF listens and fixes it then they will come out of it an even stronger competitor.

 

[Gypsy]

With regard to KT's post. Well, I am torn. On the one hand, I do agree KT's point that you can support one vendor without putting another down. On the other hand, I am sure I do not know all the details of your interactions with WF so I can't judge your point of view, and certainly agree with Karl that this forum is about the exchange of ideas and opinions.

I have never purchased from WF. But when I was getting setting qoutes I contacted Pearlmans, GOG, ERD (Mark even sent me CADS), James Allen, Leon, Wink, WF, Maytal... among others. None of them have ever contacted me subsequently in any way that that has made me feel uncomfortable-- except Debi from WF earlier this year (which I did post about). I think the difference is the Wink (setting), Pearlmans (wedding bands, wedding party present), Jonathan (got in setting on memo for me and took pictures of asscher in it), Mark (provided me with CADS for a setting qoute)... etc all understand where the line is and have confidence in the fact IF they provide a quality product, on time, with great customer service their customers will be happy and will likely return. I certainly would do business with any of them. It sounds like WF has recently changed thier sales model with regard to customer communications, and they are now pursuing leads with what some might call 'hard sell' tactics. Whether or not this is okay with you seems to be an individual determination. I cannot say I care for it personally, and do feel that if this is the model that is going to be adopted by others, in following WF's example, it would make me unwilling to reach out to vendors as openly as I have in the past, which I think is a shame.

 

[KtIceRN]

Date: 4/26/2009 2:01:37 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 4/26/2009 1:38:30 AM
Author: KtIceRN

fangirlism is worse.
PS is about the free and open exchange of ideas.
It is a legit topic of conversation.
Every vendor from time to time takes a few knocks and the good ones come out of it better than before.
It is obvious that several people have an issue with some contact policy changes at WF... If WF listens and fixes it then they will come out of it an even stronger competitor.

Strmrdr, I can''t say that I know what "fangirlism" is so I will not even waste my time with that....

PS is a great place and I enjoy it here. This topic has is fine to discuss if needed. If Maisie told WF that she was all set with them and they still are sending her emails than by all means this needs to be addressed. That is not the way that I understand the case to be.

I feel that most people who come here on a daily basis lately knows that Maisie no longer cares for WF, their quality of work, or to do business with them. I have NO problem with that and totally respect her for making that decision. All vendors have consumers that have chosen not to use them for one reason or another. No vendor is perfect and they all need to stay on top of their game!
I feel that it would have been kindest for her to give the company respect and address her issues with them in private and then if no resolution come here for advice. That does not seem to be her intent lately and it is very disheartening.

This is my opinion and I am free to say how I feel.

 

[KtIceRN]

Date: 4/26/2009 2:25:00 AM
Author: Gypsy


With regard to KT's post. Well, I am torn. On the one hand, I do agree KT's point that you can support one vendor without putting another down. On the other hand, I am sure I do not know all the details of your interactions with WF so I can't judge your point of view, and certainly agree with Karl that this forum is about the exchange of ideas and opinions.

I have never purchased from WF. But when I was getting setting qoutes I contacted Pearlmans, GOG, ERD (Mark even sent me CADS), James Allen, Leon, Wink, WF, Maytal... among others. None of them have ever contacted me subsequently in any way that that has made me feel uncomfortable-- except Debi from WF earlier this year (which I did post about). I think the difference is the Wink (setting), Pearlmans (wedding bands, wedding party present), Jonathan (got in setting on memo for me and took pictures of asscher in it), Mark (provided me with CADS for a setting qoute)... etc all understand where the line is and have confidence in the fact IF they provide a quality product, on time, with great customer service their customers will be happy and will likely return. I certainly would do business with any of them. It sounds like WF has recently changed thier sales model with regard to customer communications, and they are now pursuing leads with what some might call 'hard sell' tactics. Whether or not this is okay with you seems to be an individual determination. I cannot say I care for it personally, and do feel that if this is the model that is going to be adopted by others, in following WF's example, it would make me unwilling to reach out to vendors as openly as I have in the past, which I think is a shame.

I agree Gypsy, PS is a great place to exchange ideas and hang out and I hope it will stay that way.

If this is some new WF sales model then they really need to look at it again and make some changes as it has now made two frequent PSers uncomfortable and that is not good at all!!!

It just did not seem to me that the sales model was the underlying issue here but rather Maisie's discontent in general with WF that she has been very vocal about lately and I felt the need to speak up.

 

[kcoursolle]

I''m fine with a mailer every now and then or a email with discounts from time to time, but I would not appreciate regular contact just to keep in touch about nothing. I''m not much of a phone person, so if I was contacted on the phone I wouldn''t like this. I was contacted by a vendor to complete a survey and that was also fine.

 

[Maisie]

Hi KT,

I appreiciate your input here. As far as I am aware the only two times I have said anything about my discontent with Whiteflash has been this thread and one (started by someone else asking for opinions) the other day where I said I wasn't happy with the workmanship on my ring. Of course there may have been other comments I have made but these are the only two that spring to mind. I suppose I am more guilty of saying how wonderful I think Brian and Lesley are. Thats because we are working really well together on my ring project. I thought it was ok to talk about the good AND the bad. I would rather encourage people to work with them rather than Whiteflash based on my experiences with both vendors. As I have said all along, I can only recommend vendors that I have actually worked with. The last time I worked with Whiteflash I had numerous problems. I had a half finished ring shipped to me, I then had to return it to have it finished. Then the melee wasn't set properly which I complained about but was told it was 'fine'. I posted a picture on here about it but it would take me forever to find it again because it was in reply to someone elses post months ago.

Also because I had to return my ring from the UK to the US I had problems with customs who tried to charge me the full amount of VAT and Import Tax AGAIN when my ring came back in (approx $1000). I had already paid this. When Fedex were communicating with Whiteflash they were asking for invoices to prove that they had already shipped the ring to me before the ring went back. Whiteflash kept on sending incorrect invoices so it looks like I will have to pay the full amount of charges again. Surely if I wanted to 'bash' WF I would have posted this before now?

I thought hard about posting this topic as I knew there would be some people who would accuse me of 'vendor bashing'. That isn't my intention at all.

 

[risingsun]

changed my mind...I'm Switzerland today

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 4/26/2009 2:45:53 AM
Author: KtIceRN
It just did not seem to me that the sales model was the underlying issue here but rather Maisie''s discontent in general with WF that she has been very vocal about lately and I felt the need to speak up.

She has just as much if not more right to say she isn''t happy with them as much as she wants as you have to go around saying how great they are all the time.
If she has been I have no clue but she has the right to as long as it is factual information.
Frankly you trying to silence her is far more concerning than anything she may have said.

 

[chrono]

Date: 4/25/2009 5:32:25 PM
Author: Maisie

Date: 4/25/2009 5:30:11 PM
Author: xander8888
I know you shouldn't have to but have you asked them to take you off their mailing list and stop contacting you?

As far as I am aware I am not on a mailing list. I have never been told I am. I don't get the sort of emails you would get on a mailing list. I just get them from a rep asking me if there is anything they can do for me.

Maisie,
I get this from WF too. I get emails and telephone calls asking if there's anything they can do, and sometimes they introduce a new item, etc. As far as I know, I'm not on any mailing list. I guess I should call them back and proactively ask them not to initiate contact first?

 

[luv2sparkle]

Maisie- I agree with you that things have definitely changed at Whiteflash since Brian and Lesley left. I used to love WF and told everyone I knew how great
they are. Anyone who comes on these forums can read many many comments about the quality of their products and services. Frankly, because of what I read,
I ended up choosing them as a vendor. I think it is only reasonable and honest if things have changed with a vendor to let that be known as well. People read
to get info, and it should be honest.

In my recent dealings with WF, I too mentioned that I was going to get a quote from Brian and Lesley. I was going to be spending a fair amount of money and
I wanted to make sure that I was getting the best price and value for my money. I think any reasonable person would do that. They were not happy with that,
and I received a very unprofessional email in response. I called them on it and they apologized. I just didnt feel good about the whole thing-so I cancelled.
I still get email too. I just delete, and when they call my phone I just don''t answer.

I realized that Lesely was the reason my experience was so good. I hope that WF will rise to the occasion and get some of these issues worked out. I think there is
room for all vendors and hopefully they all maintain a high standard for integrity and service. That is truly what we all appreciate.

 

[LD]

I have no idea how good, bad or ugly these companies are as I''ve never bought from any of them so I''m looking at this purely from Maisie''s first post .....

If a company kept emailing me, after being told I had taken my business elsewhere, and I hadn''t developed a great rapport with the sales person, I would either politely ask them to stop or just ignore their emails. In terms of asking for photos - that''s just downright rude. For what purpose? What business is it of theirs? To me, that''s an intrusion.

Maisie, send an email to the rep who keeps contacting you, explain how you feel and ask that they don''t contact you again. Simple!

In terms of giving positive and negative feedback on companies? This is a public consumer forum and opinions of all sorts should be encouraged. For everybody who''s left a negative remark about a company, there''ll be a positive somewhere along the line. It all balances out. I would rather see the odd negative remark because it reminds me that companies are human and get things wrong sometimes. I''m also very interested to see how they deal with the customer when he/she isn''t happy. This is far more valuable than reading sycophantic praise all the time.

 

[coda72]

I have experience in dealing with both companies, so I thought my input might be useful. I have used WF for many projects in the past, and Lesley was the main person I dealt with there. When she and Brian left, I knew that I would eventually use them for a project just for the mere fact of their customer service. I personally have never received any unprofessional or unsolicited emails from WF, but I sympathize with those of you that have. I did have a custom project done by WF in January, and it was very well executed as was always typical of them. When I had an issue with it later, they were very quick to respond to it, and the issue was resolved with very quickly. So, I personally have not seen any changes in WF.

I currently have a project going on with BGD, and I am still waiting to receive the ring before making any judgements. There was a delay as the wrong size product was ordered, but overall Lesley has been just as responsive as usual in providing me updates. So, in the case of both companies, I have no complaints. Again, I am not disputing any of you who have had problems, but I thought I would provide a different viewpoint.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Good or bad .. I want to hear it all. This is how we get educated and help us make a decision on the various vendors.

I just don''t like it when people use the forum as a threat to the vendors.

 

[purrfectpear]

My pear is from Whiteflash and I''ve always spoken well of them and recommended them as a trusted vendor. Last year I suppose I''ve probably spent $30K+ with three different vendors. None of them have ever initiated contact with me beyond the sale, and I would not wish for any of them to do so.

What Maisie has described is sales & marketing, but I find it to be obnoxiously agressive. Following on Gypsy''s experience a few months ago, it seems apparent that there is at least one person working at WF that is way too pushy and has gone beyond good customer relations (and into used car sales tactics IMO).

This "newer" WF is troubling to me. Personally I hope they get a grip and soon. Bad economy or not, competing vendors or not, this chasing down of customers is beginning to make them look like door to door solicitors and it''s not becoming at all !!!

 

[KtIceRN]

Date: 4/26/2009 7:22:50 AM
Author: Maisie
Hi KT,

I appreiciate your input here. As far as I am aware the only two times I have said anything about my discontent with Whiteflash has been this thread and one (started by someone else asking for opinions) the other day where I said I wasn''t happy with the workmanship on my ring. Of course there may have been other comments I have made but these are the only two that spring to mind. I suppose I am more guilty of saying how wonderful I think Brian and Lesley are. Thats because we are working really well together on my ring project. I thought it was ok to talk about the good AND the bad. I would rather encourage people to work with them rather than Whiteflash based on my experiences with both vendors. As I have said all along, I can only recommend vendors that I have actually worked with. The last time I worked with Whiteflash I had numerous problems. I had a half finished ring shipped to me, I then had to return it to have it finished. Then the melee wasn''t set properly which I complained about but was told it was ''fine''. I posted a picture on here about it but it would take me forever to find it again because it was in reply to someone elses post months ago.

Also because I had to return my ring from the UK to the US I had problems with customs who tried to charge me the full amount of VAT and Import Tax AGAIN when my ring came back in (approx $1000). I had already paid this. When Fedex were communicating with Whiteflash they were asking for invoices to prove that they had already shipped the ring to me before the ring went back. Whiteflash kept on sending incorrect invoices so it looks like I will have to pay the full amount of charges again. Surely if I wanted to ''bash'' WF I would have posted this before now?

I thought hard about posting this topic as I knew there would be some people who would accuse me of ''vendor bashing''. That isn''t my intention at all.

Hi Maisie,

If my impression was wrong, my bad and I am sorry.

I just seems that I have noticed you have been focusing on WF alot, and your comments have been negative even it threads where their customer was happy. I am not saying not to share negative experiences with vendors as I think that is a crucial part of PS is about. If someone is happy with any vendors service voicing your opinion in a negative way cause you are not happy with the vendor at that time does not seem right to me.

I did not come into this thread to "silence" you as I do think it is very important to voice the goods and the bad about any company. I just think it should be done in the right place and the right context that is all.

I do not think there is any issue with saying you are happy with BGD, I know I am and have said so many of times. I was also happy with WF in the past and have said that alot before, and as you said so were you. I think it is great you are choosing to work with BGD for your projects now. I knew that I wanted to have BGD make my moms ring and I want to continue my relationship with BGD as I totally love the product they provided both me and my mom. Lesley was my contact at WF as well and I feel a very special bond with her.

Again, it just seemed to me that your issues with WF were deeper than just a few emails that you did not seem appropriate and rather than getting to the point about your true problems with them you have been saying a few things in threads here and there that just did not seem kind IMHO. That is all I am trying to point out.

 

[Rockit]

I would be uncomfortable and very much NOT inclined to bring business to a vendor who communicates in the way the OP has described. I''m probably a bit more conservative than most, but, I really don''t care to be offered services unless I ask for them, certainly not over and over again. Certainly, this is the way sales get done sometimes, so, I can cut a bit of slack to someone who simply has a different approach to sales than I do. To a point. However, asking to see a photo of a private piece made by another vendor is completely over-the-top. Not only is it an rude intrusion, but, it is an awkward inconvenience as well. I''d be quite upset. In fact, I would find it SO bizarre, that I might post on PS to see what other people think (maybe I''m just completely out of touch, I''d wonder...?).

Also, for what it is worth, I did not know of the OP''s history with this, or any other vendor, and I took her original post at face value... she is a little weirded-out by the aggressive vendor communication and wanted feedback regarding the validity of her feelings.

I agree with what several posters already suggested: if the communication makes you uncomfortable, or is unwanted for any reason, simply ask that the sales communications stop. It doesn''t necessarily mean that you don''t want to do business with the company – maybe you do, maybe you don''t – it just means that you would prefer not to be hounded in this manner for business. If I were the vendor, I''d want to know. Obviously, the approach is not working for THIS potential client.

Finally, in general, unless a conversation degenerates into a discourteous "spitting contest," I prefer to hear all sides of an issue so that I may reason-out my own opinions. I''m grateful to PS for allowing that kind of conversation to take place when kept within the bounds of respect and decorum.

 

[Maisie]

KT can you point out which thread I put WF down even though the customer was happy?

 

[Maisie]

Also, what context should I have put my concerns about the emails? Maybe you can show me the correct way to put something like this.

 

[Maisie]

I really can''t see where I have said anything to make you think I have attacked KT Gypsy. I am not like that.. you can read any of my posts and see that I am probably one of the least malicious posters on this site. I was asking her what context I should use when posting my concerns.

 

[Maisie]

Why did you edit your post Gypsy? Now it looks like I am responding to something nobody said!

ETA You edited a second time!!!! I can't keep up!!

(Edited for spelling mistake)

 

[chrono]

Maisie,
I normally don't like to step in but this is the way I intepretate this: Everyone is welcome to post their opinion however, the choice of words used is equally important as well. Please do not take this as I am attacking you. Far from it, I'm here to offer cake.

 

[Maisie]

See I knew this would happen. I should have left all my posts there. Now I look like I have been saying things about other ps'ers when I haven't. I was responding to what Gypsy was saying but then she went and deleted all her posts.

 

[KtIceRN]

Date: 4/26/2009 1:31:38 PM
Author: Maisie
KT can you point out which thread I put WF down even though the customer was happy?

Maisie, I don''t really want to spend on a ton of time on this, so I''m not going to. When I posted to this thread, it was because remembered you posting in a few eternity band threads this week where even though the posters were happy, you seemed to want to focus on the mistakes or problems instead. It just gave me the impression that you are unhappy with WF for some reason, and if it''s because you''re not happy with the way they are contacting you, it seems pretty easy to fix. I would just tell the vendor that I''d prefer not to be contacted this way.

When you started this thread, you haven''t said you''ve told them yet that you''d prefer not to be contacted this way. Since you''re asking what I think would be the right thing to do, I''d tell a vendor directly about my issue instead of airing it here.

 

[Maisie]

I know what you are talking about. I posted in LuckyTexans post and asked her why she had to return her ring for repair. I wasn''t the only person who asked her that. I also told her I was glad she had it back.

I also made a comment that I was surprised it got past their QC dept. As did you KT in your post...

''Let this be a QC lesson for them.....they must know that we all take pics in super macro mode and will see flaws like the prongs and will not be happy. I am sure this was a fluke but I bet they will beef up the QC a bit to try and make sure it doesn''t happen again. ''

I still don''t understand what I said to cause me to be a WF basher all of a sudden.

 

[LD]

Date: 4/26/2009 2:14:18 PM
Author: KtIceRN

Date: 4/26/2009 1:31:38 PM
Author: Maisie
KT can you point out which thread I put WF down even though the customer was happy?

Maisie, I don''t really want to spend on a ton of time on this, so I''m not going to. When I posted to this thread, it was because remembered you posting in a few eternity band threads this week where even though the posters were happy, you seemed to want to focus on the mistakes or problems instead. It just gave me the impression that you are unhappy with WF for some reason, and if it''s because you''re not happy with the way they are contacting you, it seems pretty easy to fix. I would just tell the vendor that I''d prefer not to be contacted this way.

When you started this thread, you haven''t said you''ve told them yet that you''d prefer not to be contacted this way. Since you''re asking what I think would be the right thing to do, I''d tell a vendor directly about my issue instead of airing it here.

Maisie''s original post simply asked if these communications were "normal" for WF - she was feeling uncomfortable about it. Had everybody responded and said "yes, I get them too" then I''m sure Maisie would have said "oh ok, I don''t like it but if that''s common practice then fine". Why on earth shouldn''t she air those issues here?

You seem to be attacking Maisie and appear to be saying that she shouldn''t post up negative experiences with WF. I don''t think that''s acceptable. I like to hear all views and I would thank Maisie for her original post because to be quite honest, if WF approached me in the way they''ve done with her, I wouldn''t be happy either.

 

[KtIceRN]

Maisie, I have not called you a WF basher. It just seems you want to find fault in WF even when the threads are good and it gave me the impression that you are not happy with them as a whole. I feel that problems with a vendor are best addressed with the vendor directly and then if no resolution come here so all PSers can learn from your experience. I for one like to give any vendor the chance to make it right before I post and if they can''t do a thread on the problem.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 4/26/2009 2:40:16 PM
Author: KtIceRN
Maisie, I have not called you a WF basher. It just seems you want to find fault in WF even when the threads are good and it gave me the impression that you are not happy with them as a whole. I feel that problems with a vendor are best addressed with the vendor directly and then if no resolution come here so all PSers can learn from your experience. I for one like to give any vendor the chance to make it right before I post and if they can't do a thread on the problem.

proof that she has posted something that wasn't a fact about them?
You have been called on it more than once and now you are attacking her again.

 

[KtIceRN]

Date: 4/26/2009 2:29:07 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds

Date: 4/26/2009 2:14:18 PM
Author: KtIceRN

Date: 4/26/2009 1:31:38 PM
Author: Maisie
KT can you point out which thread I put WF down even though the customer was happy?

Maisie, I don''t really want to spend on a ton of time on this, so I''m not going to. When I posted to this thread, it was because remembered you posting in a few eternity band threads this week where even though the posters were happy, you seemed to want to focus on the mistakes or problems instead. It just gave me the impression that you are unhappy with WF for some reason, and if it''s because you''re not happy with the way they are contacting you, it seems pretty easy to fix. I would just tell the vendor that I''d prefer not to be contacted this way.

When you started this thread, you haven''t said you''ve told them yet that you''d prefer not to be contacted this way. Since you''re asking what I think would be the right thing to do, I''d tell a vendor directly about my issue instead of airing it here.

Maisie''s original post simply asked if these communications were ''normal'' for WF - she was feeling uncomfortable about it. Had everybody responded and said ''yes, I get them too'' then I''m sure Maisie would have said ''oh ok, I don''t like it but if that''s common practice then fine''. Why on earth shouldn''t she air those issues here?

You seem to be attacking Maisie and appear to be saying that she shouldn''t post up negative experiences with WF. I don''t think that''s acceptable. I like to hear all views and I would thank Maisie for her original post because to be quite honest, if WF approached me in the way they''ve done with her, I wouldn''t be happy either.

LD, sorry you feel this way. Again, I don''t have a problem with anyone posting negative experiences about any vendor if they''ve tried to work them out with the vendor unsuccessfully first. It''s not just about this thread, as I''ve said. During the past week, it seems she''s looked for problems in other threads even when the people who posted those threads were pretty happy with their experiences. It gives me the sense that her goal wasn''t just to share a negative experience of her own so I commented.

Again, if my impression is incorrect, so be it. Since it''s ok to comment on threads and share viewpoints, I felt it was right to share mine. That''s the impression I got, so I said so. If it''s not true, great. I just felt the need to voice my opinion. I won''t continue to beat a dead horse, I said my piece and that''s that.

 

[Imdanny]

Date: 4/26/2009 8:08:23 AM
Author: risingsun
changed my mind...I''m Switzerland today

 

[Linda W]

Maisie, You are one of the dearest and kindest posters on PS. I have never read a post, where you were intentionally bashing WF.


I am very glad that you posted your experience.