When will you allow your children to drink alcohol?

[iheartscience]

When I was growing up my dad would let us have a sip here and there of whatever he was drinking. (Beer or wine, never liquor-my parents don''t really drink liquor at all.) We never had an actual glass of our own until we were 21, though. If I have any kids I''ll probably be the same way with them-a sip here or there but maybe I''ll let them have a small glass of wine at the holidays once they''re 15 or 16.

I drank a fair amount in high school but never got so drunk I passed out. I always had older friends, and they had older friends, so it was quite easy to get alcohol. Plus I had a few acquaintances whose parents let them and all their friends drink at their house. I don''t agree with that but in high school I sure didn''t mind!

Alcohol was never some forbidden thing in my house growing up. My parents had plenty of it in the house (for some reason they have a fair amount of liquor even though they don''t really drink it-I think it''s from gifts and such) but they didn''t drink a lot so I never thought it was normal to drink much. Plus I''ve never seen either of my parents drunk and to this day I think it''s strange when "grown ups" are drunk! I remember going to a friend''s house for New Year''s Eve when I was in high school and her parents threw a party and they were all drunk-my sister and I were blown away!

My mom made sure me and my siblings knew all about alcohol poisoning and I think she made us so paranoid none of us have ever been the types to get insanely drunk. We always tease her because has a horror story for everything, but it worked! None of my four siblings or myself ever had issues with doing drugs, drinking, etc. However, she also stressed that if we were ever drunk at a party she would come get us if we called her and she wouldn''t be mad at all. Luckily my twin sister didn''t drink in high school, though, so I always had a designated driver!

I think partying a bit in high school is good for kids because that way they don''t go bonkers when they go to college and are on their own for the first time. I still drank a fair amount my first couple years of college, but again, I never got so drunk I passed out. By the time I turned 21 I was pretty much over drinking, and now I rarely drink-maybe a few times a month I''ll have drinks out with friends and that''s it.

 

[Maria D]

Date: 11/16/2009 6:54:57 PM
Author: Ara Ann
I saw a TV report a few years back, not sure which ''news'' program it was featured on, but they stated that ''teaching kids to drink in moderation at home, with parents present does NOT work.''


The study PROVED that even if kids were taught how to drink responsibly, at an early age by their parents, the kids STILL got wasted when on their own while with their peers, i.e. at college, at parties, etc. just as often as kids whose parents didn''t ''teach'' them by allowing them to drink before they were of legal age.


Seems to fly in the face of ''reason'' - it is reasonable to adults to believe kids can ''get it'' by example, but teens are generally not very reasonable when influenced by their peers. something to consider in your approach with your kids and attitudes about alcohol...desensitizing teens to alcohol, by allowing them to have it at home doesn''t seem to be a hard fast rule.



And there was another study out last week about how having high expectations for teens equaled better behavior from teens. If you have high expectations of them, they will not act out as much as kids whose parents have a cavalier ''They''re going to do it anyway,'' - ''All kids do it'' kind of attitude. Yes, we know as parents, most kids DO try stuff we''d rather they not, however if our attitudes toward undesirable behavior is made known to our children, that we EXPECT good behavior, it does help them make better decisions.

I don''t know about the study you are referencing, but anecdotally I can say that I and all my cousins routinely drank alcohol with family and we all turned out to be responsible adults and parents. Good behavior wasn''t just expected by my parents, aunts, uncles and grandparents -- it was demanded. Good behavior included being able to have a glass of wine with a meal at an age much less than 21 and not being stupid about it, I guess!

 

[Kay]

Another ditto to Neatfreak''s post.

I will allow my child to take a sip from my glass at whatever age if she wants to know what it tastes like. I would allow a small glass of wine with a special dinner in mid to late teens. I had not heard about the water dilution method before, but will have to keep that in mind.

I will not serve alcohol to anyone else''s child or allow them to drink in our house.

I would like to be able to have an open dialogue with my child about the dangers of drinking to excess and drinking and driving. I plan on teaching her she should call us for a ride if she has been drinking (or if whoever was driving that night has been drinking). In my teens, I made some bad decisions about driving home a few times and was very lucky nothing bad happened. My parents were very strict, and I was afraid to miss curfew and there was no way I could admit I had been drinking, so I never called them for a ride.

 

[zoebartlett]

I agree with Fiery -- I would hope that our future kids will feel comfortable talking to my husband and me about drinking, should we bring it up. I want our kids to have a healthy attitude towards drinking responsibly, but having said that, I''d probably let the law be the guide. If the drinking age is 21, then that''s when we''ll probably allow our kids to drink at home. Growing up, my parents used to have a liquor cabinet and it was always full. Most of it was leftover bottles from parties that my parents had, and the bottles were collecting dust. They ended up throwing all the alcohol out and getting rid of the liquor cabinet, since neither of my parents really drank. I was never tempted to raid the bottles when I was in high school. It never really occurred to me. I''m not sure what my parents would have said if I had asked to try something. It never came up.

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Date: 11/16/2009 5:35:34 PM
Author: TravelingGal
OK, I know this is spliting hairs and I didn't look this up, but...


Is the legal age for BUYING alcohol? You can legally drink at a much younger age in your own home in many states. In fact, I am not sure that at some bars, it wouldn't be technical legal to drink, as long as you weren't buying it underage. Of course, no bar is going to allow that in case of a bust, they can't prove they didn't serve it to a minor.

Don't feel like looking up the VA Code so just looked at the VA ABC website and according to it 21 applies to purchase, possession, and consumption. http://www.abc.state.va.us/Education/parent2/parent2.htm

ETA: That is of course very possibly not true in other states, VA is very conservative legally.

 

[Ara Ann]

Date: 11/16/2009 7:22:48 PM
Author: Ara Ann
Here''s a link to a more recent article that supports my previous post:


http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,26152454-2682,00.html


Peers have such a HUGE influence over kids...I guess it boils down to knowing their friends and what is permitted at their homes, like Pack Rat said.


We''ve never kept alcohol in our home, I never wanted to be the source or the enabler for any other child who happened to be in my home and who wanted a drink....wasn''t going to happen here.

Maria, I guess you missed this link. Of course it does not apply to all kids, but it states peers have more ''swaying power'' than parents do when it comes to drinking.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 11/16/2009 7:22:48 PM
Author: Ara Ann
Here''s a link to a more recent article that supports my previous post:

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,26152454-2682,00.html

Peers have such a HUGE influence over kids...I guess it boils down to knowing their friends and what is permitted at their homes, like Pack Rat said.

We''ve never kept alcohol in our home, I never wanted to be the source or the enabler for any other child who happened to be in my home and who wanted a drink....wasn''t going to happen here.

Um...that is an Australian story. Aussies getting drunk is a national past time, isn''t it?

And TGuy went to U of Adelaide, and he certainly did enjoy getting drunk!

 

[Maria D]

No, I didn't miss it; I read the article you linked to. That was not the study itself but an article about the study. There's no way for me to make anything out of the study without reading the actual research and delving into things like what questions were asked, were the students self-selected or randomly selected, were behaviors self-reported or observed by an unbiased observer? I don't read articles about limited studies involving 238 undergrads and draw conclusions like "Peers have more influence than parents when it comes to drinking." I'm sure someone somewhere has done a study that would counter that.

ETA: In your first post you said "The study PROVED that even if kids were taught how to drink responsibly, at an early age by their parents, the kids STILL got wasted when on their own while with their peers, i.e. at college, at parties, etc. just as often as kids whose parents didn't 'teach' them by allowing them to drink before they were of legal age." The article you linked to says "However . . . when parental and peer variables were combined, none of the parental variables (mother's use, father's use . . . parental permissiveness and parental disapproval) significantly affected the participants' consumption level." Again, I don't know about the study itself because I haven't read it, but to me your conclusion doesn't follow logically from the article you linked to. They are summarizing that parental variables do not make a significant difference, but that peer influence does. If a parent truly believes this it doesn't matter what s/he does then?

Date: 11/16/2009 8:44:14 PM
Author: Ara Ann

Date: 11/16/2009 7:22:48 PM

Author: Ara Ann

Here's a link to a more recent article that supports my previous post:



http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,26152454-2682,00.html



Peers have such a HUGE influence over kids...I guess it boils down to knowing their friends and what is permitted at their homes, like Pack Rat said.



We've never kept alcohol in our home, I never wanted to be the source or the enabler for any other child who happened to be in my home and who wanted a drink....wasn't going to happen here.

Maria, I guess you missed this link. Of course it does not apply to all kids, but it states peers have more 'swaying power' than parents do when it comes to drinking.

 

[Kaleigh]

Educate your kids, have frank discussions. We have an open door policy. They can tell us anything, and if they got into a situation with their friends, and needed us , all they had to do is call. If a party was getting out of hand, call us and we will pick you and your friends up no problem. Our house has always been a safe haven. Luckily we haven''t had to do that often. But am so glad they trusted us to make that call, when things got out of control. Having that communication with your kids is sooooo Key. I am lucky my kids, 21 and 19 tell me just about everything. Sometimes it''s TMI, but as a parent there is no such thing as TMI...

My kids would tell you the same. It''s all about communication. Start early on, building the blocks of trust and give them info that is age appropriate.

 

[Haven]

Peers definitely have a huge influence on your child's choices. Absolutely.

But so do you, as parents. From what I've seen while observing adolescent behavior, it is not so much whether parents allow their children to have a sip or a drink or anything in the home that is most influential, it's whether children know
a) acceptable drinking behavior (according to your own family, of course) (expectations)
b) and, that there will be consequences for making bad decisions connected with drinking. (consequences)

There's a big difference between parents who really deal with their children when they *do* drink irresponsibly by giving them real and effective consequences, and those who turn the other cheek and let their kids off easy and miss out on a great teachable moment.

I honestly think it has less to do with what you allow your kids to do in your home, and more to do with the expectations you set up for your children, and how committed you are to following through when those expectations are not met.

 

[ChargerGrrl]

Neatfreak couldn't have said it any better!

As a Latina/Italian, I grew up with tequila and wine in the house. It wasn't forbidden to us, but I just wasn't interested. Then I let peer pressure get to me as a sophomore in HS, and got wasted one night while party hopping- totally out of character. Unfortunately, I was dropped off at home, and my mother had a field day with me. She FORCED me to drink a snifter of brandy so that I would purposely get sick and never forget that experience. Needless to say, I "respected" alcohol after that and didn't drink again until college.

DH and I enjoy our "beverages"- we like fine wine with our food. We have a 100-bottle wine fridge and 3-tap kegerator in our kitchen.

DH is a pretty good homebrewer, and has just started making wine. He plans to teach our child "the art" of homebrewing and wine making (if they're interested). Our take is to de-mystify and educate them about it so that they understand how it's produced, and therefore they'll learn to respect and understand it.

Will we serve alcohol to minors in our home? Absolutely not.
Will we lock up the wine fridge and kegerator when we're not around? Absolutely!

 

[Maria D]

kegerator? hahaha, never heard of one of those. Sounds like Arnie behind the bar drawing your beers for you!

 

[swingirl]

21 because that''s the law in the US and I want to set the example for my kids that the law is to be followed and not "interpreted" based on traditions in other countries, families, or cultures. Lots of cultures practice things that are illegal in the US. I believe you have to live by the rules of where you reside.

 

[trillionaire]

I don''t have or plan on kids, but my sister was allowed to sample my moms wine coolers and such after she was about 12 or so. Before she went to college, from the time she was about 15ish, I would let her drink under my supervison, but never with friends, and FI and I argued a few times because I wouldn''t let him give her alcohol either. She''s a very, very mild drinker, and she says because she got experience early, it wasn''t a big deal. She also doesn''t love the taste. She really only drinks socially.

I also started teaching her to drive when she was 12 or 13. (you get learners at 14 where we lived). She''s a good driver, too.

 

[Ara Ann]

Wow Maria, I am sorry my little stories aren''t up to your statistical standards but I''ll try my best to explain the program I saw. My apologies for being a simple minded, ignorant parent and not an obviously well educated person such as yourself.


The program I saw, several years ago, was an illustration of a study (sorry I can''t recall the specific study info after several years) about how parents attitudes toward teen drinking affected the teens consumption of alcohol.


They featured six sets of parents who strongly believed their teen children would not drink in excess because they had ''taught'' them to drink responsibly at home. They had demystified alcohol in their opinion because they allowed their children to drink at home and felt their kids would not drink in excess as a result. Then the kids of these parents were filmed within a party setting, with peers and alcohol was provided. Each child from the permissive households drank much more than what the parents had predicted and became drunk. The parents were shocked their children did not exhibit the self control they believed they had instilled in them.

That''s it. Plain and simple. I don''t understand why it is so hard to conceive of the notion that some kids will drink to excess even if their parents taught them to drink in moderation at home. This is not rocket science. It does not require piles of significant statistics to back it up.

After reading many opinions on the subject in this thread and knowing what I know, both anecdotally and from experience as a parent of teens, I felt compelled to speak up about this so no one would be lulled into a false sense of security regarding underage drinking. That the belief that being permissive and ''teaching'' kids to drink responsibly leads to a more self controlled teen, when it is not always the case.


Yes, I overemphasized these findings by saying it proved kids will still get drunk in my first post, however, my stance on the subject is no less provable than yours.



For your information, my upbringing was similar to most here. Alcohol was not forbidden in my home, I had the occasional sips of my dad''s beer, had wine on special occasions, my parents also made wine at home... it was not taboo. Drinking was modeled responsibly for me. And yet I also engaged in heavy drinking in my teens, thankfully only for a very short time, but it still happened. In fact one night, one of our girlfriends drank so much she developed alcohol poisoning. Yes, I went through that phase and drank with my friends, even while knowing my parents would be disappointed with that behavior had they found out. Thankfully again, it did not progress further and I stopped drinking for the most part before I even came of age.



Peers have the most influence on your kids at some points in their lives. It''s the pack mentality. Succumbing to peer pressure is not a sign of weakness, or that there is something wrong with your child, it is a fact of life. Some kids can withstand negative peer pressure better than others, but it will affect every child to some extent.



Here''s another link to some interesting information if any other parents are interested, there are several links to other articles on this page as well. Of course parents are going to raise their children however they see fit, as it their right, just be informed while making such important decisions, that certain actions on the parts of the parents do not always ensure the desired outcome with the children.

http://alcoholism.about.com/od/drinkers/a/blama050808.htm

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 11/17/2009 8:02:47 AM
Author: Ara Ann
Wow Maria, I am sorry my little stories aren''t up to your statistical standards but I''ll try my best to explain the program I saw. My apologies for being a simple minded, ignorant parent and not an obviously well educated person such as yourself.


The program I saw, several years ago, was an illustration of a study (sorry I can''t recall the specific study info after several years) about how parents attitudes toward teen drinking affected the teens consumption of alcohol.


They featured six sets of parents who strongly believed their teen children would not drink in excess because they had ''taught'' them to drink responsibly at home. They had demystified alcohol in their opinion because they allowed their children to drink at home and felt their kids would not drink in excess as a result. Then the kids of these parents were filmed within a party setting, with peers and alcohol was provided. Each child from the permissive households drank much more than what the parents had predicted and became drunk. The parents were shocked their children did not exhibit the self control they believed they had instilled in them.

That''s it. Plain and simple. I don''t understand why it is so hard to conceive of the notion that some kids will drink to excess even if their parents taught them to drink in moderation at home. This is not rocket science. It does not require piles of significant statistics to back it up.

After reading many opinions on the subject in this thread and knowing what I know, both anecdotally and from experience as a parent of teens, I felt compelled to speak up about this so no one would be lulled into a false sense of security regarding underage drinking. That the belief that being permissive and ''teaching'' kids to drink responsibly leads to a more self controlled teen, when it is not always the case.


Yes, I overemphasized these findings by saying it proved kids will still get drunk in my first post, however, my stance on the subject is no less provable than yours.



For your information, my upbringing was similar to most here. Alcohol was not forbidden in my home, I had the occasional sips of my dad''s beer, had wine on special occasions, my parents also made wine at home... it was not taboo. Drinking was modeled responsibly for me. And yet I also engaged in heavy drinking in my teens, thankfully only for a very short time, but it still happened. In fact one night, one of our girlfriends drank so much she developed alcohol poisoning. Yes, I went through that phase and drank with my friends, even while knowing my parents would be disappointed with that behavior had they found out. Thankfully again, it did not progress further and I stopped drinking for the most part before I even came of age.



Peers have the most influence on your kids at some points in their lives. It''s the pack mentality. Succumbing to peer pressure is not a sign of weakness, or that there is something wrong with your child, it is a fact of life. Some kids can withstand negative peer pressure better than others, but it will affect every child to some extent.



Here''s another link to some interesting information if any other parents are interested, there are several links to other articles on this page as well. Of course parents are going to raise their children however they see fit, as it their right, just be informed while making such important decisions, that certain actions on the parts of the parents do not always ensure the desired outcome with the children.

http://alcoholism.about.com/od/drinkers/a/blama050808.htm

Ara with all due respect, that study doesn''t prove a whole lot? SIX sets of parents who said they taught their kids? Did they actually delve into what "taught" means? Did the children ever see the parents intoxicated to the point of drunk?

I don''t think you can prove this debate either way. Nature and nurture both have something to do with it.

 

[Pandora II]

Just wanted to mention that the law in the UK is very different than in the USA:

Children over the age of 5 can legally consume alcohol at home.
Children aged 16 - 17 may have one glass of cider/wine/beer in a bar or pub provided that it is served with a meal and they are accompanied by an over-18.
Over 18 you can drink whatever you want.

I wouldn''t give another parent''s child alcohol under the age of 16 and 16-17 only knowing their views and only a glass of wine with a celebratory meal for example.

I think that excessive drinking is the norm here at college, so I wouldn''t agree that trying it at home always leads to sobriety away from home.

I certainly got plastered not that infrequently at University, as did my brother, sisters, husband, pretty much anyone I know. None of our parents were particularly bothered - my father gave us a mega-lecture on not getting drunk and then getting pregnant though. On the whole you get bored pretty fast of hangovers... I haven''t drunk even a little too much in over 10 years.

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 11/16/2009 7:17:08 PM
Author: packrat
Sooo..if you let your teen and their friends come over to drink in moderation (which isn''t something I ever learned to do until I was well into my 20''s)..do you call their parents to let them know? There''s a fine line between not being a party house/drinking in moderation and things getting out of hand. It sounds snarky, and I do apologize for that-I just don''t know how to ask w/out sounding snippy. I want to be a cool mom, but..how do you be super cool and be a mom? I suppose everyone has to find their own level of cool momness that works for them and their kids.

As someone who said I''d allow my child to drink in my company on occasion I wanted to respond to you, packrat. First by saying, your question is not at all snippy, it''s a valid question. My childrens friends will never be allowed to drink in my home nor will my house be the party house. What I envision as being allowed to drink on occasion is a small glass of wine at a holiday dinner, not "It''s Friday night, lets have a beer." I have no interest in being a "cool" mom, I know I''ll be far from it and I''m okay with that, what I do want is for my child not to think that alcohol is some mystical magical thing that they get to go crazy with at 21 because it has been forbidden for so long. My opinion about allowing my child to drink could very well change given the personality of my child (if he/she is someone who seems to overdo things, is a follower, etc.) I would likely revise my thoughts on the subject, but as it stands now, based on my personal experiences, I don''t think allowing my kid to have a sip of alcohol here and there is going to turn him or her into a wildchild.

 

[Ara Ann]

Date: 11/17/2009 11:22:58 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 11/17/2009 8:02:47 AM

Author: Ara Ann

Wow Maria, I am sorry my little stories aren''t up to your statistical standards but I''ll try my best to explain the program I saw. My apologies for being a simple minded, ignorant parent and not an obviously well educated person such as yourself.



The program I saw, several years ago, was an illustration of a study (sorry I can''t recall the specific study info after several years) about how parents attitudes toward teen drinking affected the teens consumption of alcohol.



They featured six sets of parents who strongly believed their teen children would not drink in excess because they had ''taught'' them to drink responsibly at home. They had demystified alcohol in their opinion because they allowed their children to drink at home and felt their kids would not drink in excess as a result. Then the kids of these parents were filmed within a party setting, with peers and alcohol was provided. Each child from the permissive households drank much more than what the parents had predicted and became drunk. The parents were shocked their children did not exhibit the self control they believed they had instilled in them.


That''s it. Plain and simple. I don''t understand why it is so hard to conceive of the notion that some kids will drink to excess even if their parents taught them to drink in moderation at home. This is not rocket science. It does not require piles of significant statistics to back it up.


After reading many opinions on the subject in this thread and knowing what I know, both anecdotally and from experience as a parent of teens, I felt compelled to speak up about this so no one would be lulled into a false sense of security regarding underage drinking. That the belief that being permissive and ''teaching'' kids to drink responsibly leads to a more self controlled teen, when it is not always the case.



Yes, I overemphasized these findings by saying it proved kids will still get drunk in my first post, however, my stance on the subject is no less provable than yours.




For your information, my upbringing was similar to most here. Alcohol was not forbidden in my home, I had the occasional sips of my dad''s beer, had wine on special occasions, my parents also made wine at home... it was not taboo. Drinking was modeled responsibly for me. And yet I also engaged in heavy drinking in my teens, thankfully only for a very short time, but it still happened. In fact one night, one of our girlfriends drank so much she developed alcohol poisoning. Yes, I went through that phase and drank with my friends, even while knowing my parents would be disappointed with that behavior had they found out. Thankfully again, it did not progress further and I stopped drinking for the most part before I even came of age.




Peers have the most influence on your kids at some points in their lives. It''s the pack mentality. Succumbing to peer pressure is not a sign of weakness, or that there is something wrong with your child, it is a fact of life. Some kids can withstand negative peer pressure better than others, but it will affect every child to some extent.




Here''s another link to some interesting information if any other parents are interested, there are several links to other articles on this page as well. Of course parents are going to raise their children however they see fit, as it their right, just be informed while making such important decisions, that certain actions on the parts of the parents do not always ensure the desired outcome with the children.


http://alcoholism.about.com/od/drinkers/a/blama050808.htm

Ara with all due respect, that study doesn''t prove a whole lot? SIX sets of parents who said they taught their kids? Did they actually delve into what ''taught'' means? Did the children ever see the parents intoxicated to the point of drunk?


I don''t think you can prove this debate either way. Nature and nurture both have something to do with it.

TGal, I didn''t say the STUDY was based on six sets of parents, I said the program itself used six sets of parents to ILLUSTRATE the findings of the study. Again, I stated I do not recall the exact study, how many parents/children were involved, as this was a few years ago, but I do remember the program...it struck a chord with me because my son was about 15 at that time and it made an impression on me. And yes, they did speak to the parents about their beliefs and none taught their children to drink until drunk. The parents held very similar beliefs to those being expressed here on this forum and I admit, I felt that way at one point as well.


And I totally agree, I am not trying to prove anything with a debate, my entire purpose for mentioning this at all was to point out that with young children and adults, input does not always equate outcome.

 

[packrat]

Date: 11/17/2009 11:49:22 AM
Author: KimberlyH

Date: 11/16/2009 7:17:08 PM

Author: packrat

Sooo..if you let your teen and their friends come over to drink in moderation (which isn''t something I ever learned to do until I was well into my 20''s)..do you call their parents to let them know? There''s a fine line between not being a party house/drinking in moderation and things getting out of hand. It sounds snarky, and I do apologize for that-I just don''t know how to ask w/out sounding snippy. I want to be a cool mom, but..how do you be super cool and be a mom? I suppose everyone has to find their own level of cool momness that works for them and their kids.

As someone who said I''d allow my child to drink in my company on occasion I wanted to respond to you, packrat. First by saying, your question is not at all snippy, it''s a valid question. My childrens friends will never be allowed to drink in my home nor will my house be the party house. What I envision as being allowed to drink on occasion is a small glass of wine at a holiday dinner, not ''It''s Friday night, lets have a beer.'' I have no interest in being a ''cool'' mom, I know I''ll be far from it and I''m okay with that, what I do want is for my child not to think that alcohol is some mystical magical thing that they get to go crazy with at 21 because it has been forbidden for so long. My opinion about allowing my child to drink could very well change given the personality of my child (if he/she is someone who seems to overdo things, is a follower, etc.) I would likely revise my thoughts on the subject, but as it stands now, based on my personal experiences, I don''t think allowing my kid to have a sip of alcohol here and there is going to turn him or her into a wildchild.

Thanks Kimberly! I thought that was typically what you guys were meaning by allowing your kids to drink at home, but I wasn''t sure-there''s so many ways to interpret things..like my Aunt''s version, you know?

With that reasoning, sure, I''d let the kids have a little glass of wine if we were celebrating something..or if we were all fancy at a holiday dinner or something. Trapper tasted my brother''s wine a couple weeks ago when he was back on leave, and he said MMMMM nummy..then the next night tasted his beer and got a rag to scrape his tongue off hahaha.

 

[junebug17]

Date: 11/16/2009 10:30:09 PM
Author: swingirl
21 because that''s the law in the US and I want to set the example for my kids that the law is to be followed and not ''interpreted'' based on traditions in other countries, families, or cultures. Lots of cultures practice things that are illegal in the US. I believe you have to live by the rules of where you reside.

Same here. Was going to say something along these lines, but swingirl said it so well I don''t have to!

 

[anchor31]

Date: 11/17/2009 11:23:26 AM
Author: Pandora II
Just wanted to mention that the law in the UK is very different than in the USA:

Children over the age of 5 can legally consume alcohol at home.
Children aged 16 - 17 may have one glass of cider/wine/beer in a bar or pub provided that it is served with a meal and they are accompanied by an over-18.
Over 18 you can drink whatever you want.

I wouldn''t give another parent''s child alcohol under the age of 16 and 16-17 only knowing their views and only a glass of wine with a celebratory meal for example.

I think that excessive drinking is the norm here at college, so I wouldn''t agree that trying it at home always leads to sobriety away from home.

I certainly got plastered not that infrequently at University, as did my brother, sisters, husband, pretty much anyone I know. None of our parents were particularly bothered - my father gave us a mega-lecture on not getting drunk and then getting pregnant though. On the whole you get bored pretty fast of hangovers... I haven''t drunk even a little too much in over 10 years.

Similarly, in Québec a minor (under the age of 1 is not allowed to purchase alcohol, consume alcohol in public or be admitted in a bar (except on its terrace if s/he is accompanied by a parent and leaves before 8PM). Also, it is forbidden to purchase alcohol for a minor. However, the law does not state any legal age for consumption in the home, so that is left to parental discretion. (reference: http://www.canlii.org/en/qc/laws/stat/rsq-c-i-8.1/latest/rsq-c-i-8.1.html) I would say most teenagers are allowed to drink in moderation in their parents'' presence at about 16 (of course, I will respect the wishes of the parents on any minors visiting my home). I don''t think there''s any less excessive drinking here than anywhere else, but I would think that like sex, teaching safe practices rather than strict abstinence can be more effective.

 

[Haven]

I hadn't realized this turned into a debate, and I really fall on neither side of it since I believe that what you allow in your home has far less to do with whether your child will drink irresponsibly than the expectations you set, and the consequences you impose when those expectations are not met. (Which I've already stated, sorry.)

However, I do want to say that I think it's interesting so many people feel that allowing alcohol consumption in the home will demistify alcohol for their kids. I find it interesting because in this day and age, alcohol is pretty much demystified once you allow your children to watch TV, or to hang out with other kids who do watch TV. Most social kids know what alcohol is, how to get it, what it does to a person, and which kinds taste best by the time they hit high school. And in some cases, junior high. I know as parents people like to think that their kids tell them everything, but as a teacher I can firmly tell you that they don't. They know far more about alcohol and drugs than you could ever imagine, assuming that they attend school and are allowed to interact with their peers while there.

I don't really care what people allow their children to consume in the home, and frankly, a glass of wine here and there seems far less harmful than habitual fast food meals and heavily sugared beverages. I see more overweight and obese children than I do alcoholic ones, anyway. Same thing goes for adults.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 11/17/2009 12:42:32 PM
Author: junebug17

Date: 11/16/2009 10:30:09 PM

Author: swingirl

21 because that's the law in the US and I want to set the example for my kids that the law is to be followed and not 'interpreted' based on traditions in other countries, families, or cultures. Lots of cultures practice things that are illegal in the US. I believe you have to live by the rules of where you reside.

Same here. Was going to say something along these lines, but swingirl said it so well I don't have to!

But here is the thing. In many states that ISN'T the law. I live in California and before that resided in WI. In both states it is PERFECTLY legal to serve your child alcohol in your own home.

So I am not simply "interpreting" the law-I would be following it.

If you lived in a state that allows you to serve your child alcohol in your own home-what would you do then? Because you WOULD be following the law. Swingirl-I believe you also live in CA, right? So just to play devil's advocate would you allow your child to drink in your home even if they aren't 21? It's legal here.

 

[waxing lyrical]

Date: 11/16/2009 12:41:24 PM
Author: neatfreak
I will let them have a sip whenever they want to taste it and probably a glass of wine with dinner sometime in their late teens. Personally I''d rather them not think it''s this shiny enticing prize they get at age 21 that they need to go nuts with. I lived in Europe for a year in my teens and learned about alcohol there-and I think it''s smart. They drink BEFORE they learn to drive so they know what alcohol can do to you before they are behind the wheel. And while I lived there not ONE of my friends got drunk-IMO because it was never restricted to begin with so there was no need to drink all you can-because they always knew it would be there the next day.


Like anything else putting something off limits usually makes it more appealing.


That being said, I will NEVER allow them to have friends over my house and drink nor will I allow them to drink all they want. I won''t be one of those parents that buys their child and friends alcohol either.

This is how we see it.

 

[TravelingGal]

SDL, correct me if I am wrong, but there are often laws that can seem to contradict one another, yes?

Here is a site for state by state underage drinking laws.

http://alcoholpolicy.niaaa.nih.gov/stateprofiles/

 

[TravelingGal]

And I did find the msnbc article I was talking about with the map that I remember (which is crappier than I remember.)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20249460

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 11/17/2009 4:06:17 PM
Author: SanDiegoLady

Date: 11/17/2009 3:41:01 PM
Author: TravelingGal
SDL, correct me if I am wrong, but there are often laws that can seem to contradict one another, yes?

Here is a site for state by state underage drinking laws.

http://alcoholpolicy.niaaa.nih.gov/stateprofiles/

TG, I''m going on what the California PC states. I dont see anywhere on there about pc''s. That''s up for heavy interpretation unless you can provide othewise. Given where I work and what my husband and I both do and my background, I''m still going to stand firm in my opinion on this subject. I can appreciate that others may have a different view on it, I dont have to agree with it. The next time I get a call from a teen or a college student under the age of 21 who has been provided alcohol and been taken advantage of, I''ll remember this thread. I have taken plenty of those calls. You be the one to listen to the distraught parent on the phone or the hospital that calls for the report.

SDL, I am well aware of your stance. Having a brother, 2 cousin-in-laws and 2 close friends all in PD, I normally tend to side on the conservative for law issues.

However, IMHO, I think people take advantage of drunk teens...well, there is a whole host of other societal issues there, not just alcohol. To say it''s in the same class as allowing your own child to partake in a little wine in your house is a little OTT.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 11/17/2009 3:31:24 PM
Author: SanDiegoLady


In California, the age of 18 and under is contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Its not legal to furnish any minor alcohol- including your own. California Penal Code 272; Contributing to the delinquency of a minor, its a misdemeanor. The punishment for this misdemeanor offense can be up to a fine of $2,500 or 1 year in county jail.

*eta, just something else I found on an attorney''s site.. Serving alcohol to a minor can be criminally punished under a few different penal statutes. Persons who give alcohol to any person under the age of 21 years are guilty of a crime under California Business and Professions Code Section 25658. The penalties for a conviction under this section can include one year in county jail and a fine of $1,000. In addition, a person found guilty under this section may also be found guilty of violating Section 272 of the Penal Code. Section 272 makes it a crime for anyone to contribute to the delinquency of a minor. Under this section, anyone who commits any act or omits the performance of any duty which causes or encourages any person under the age of 18 years to possess alcohol is guilty of a crime. A conviction under this section may be punished by a fine of $2,500, imprisonment in jail and probation for five years. A mistake as to the age of the person given alcohol is not a valid defense to either of these charges. So, combining the penalties of these two sections, if you serve alcohol to a person under the age of 18 years, even if you do not know that they are under 18, you can be fined $3,500 and imprisoned in county jail and placed on probation for five years.

Possession of Alcohol by Minor - If you are under 21 and are in possession of alcohol, you may also face severe penalties. Any person under the age of 21 years who has any alcoholic beverage in his or her possession in any public place is guilty of a crime under California Business and Professions Code Section 25662 and can be punished by a fine of $250 or the person can be required to perform 32 hours of community service. A second or subsequent violation can subject the person to $500 or 48 hours of community service. Furthermore, service at an alcohol or drug treatment program can also be required. In addition, you will lose your license if you are convicted for this offense. It is most often a very bad idea to plead guilty to a minor in possession of alcohol charge, commonly referred to as MIP.

OK, so I read penal code 272. The part you are quoting is this?

1) Every person who commits any act or omits the
performance of any duty, which act or omission causes or tends to
cause or encourage any person under the age of 18 years to come
within the provisions of Section 300, 601, or 602 of the Welfare and
Institutions Code or which act or omission contributes thereto, or
any person who, by any act or omission, or by threats, commands, or
persuasion, induces or endeavors to induce any person under the age
of 18 years or any ward or dependent child of the juvenile court to
fail or refuse to conform to a lawful order of the juvenile court, or
to do or to perform any act or to follow any course of conduct or to
so live as would cause or manifestly tend to cause that person to
become or to remain a person within the provisions of Section 300,
601, or 602 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, is guilty of a
misdemeanor and upon conviction thereof shall be punished by a fine
not exceeding two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500), or by
imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year, or by
both fine and imprisonment in a county jail, or may be released on
probation for a period not exceeding five years.



As for the business code you posted, that does not pertain to what we are mostly talking about here...minors consuming alcohol in the privacy of your own home. It is obviously state law that minors can''t BUY alcohol in places of business. And according to that code, it specifically says BUY.

25662? Did you forget about the part about possession being legal under order of a guardian if they are bringing it for them?

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/appndxa/buspro/bpc25662.htm

"25662. (a) Any person under the age of 21 years who has any alcoholic beverage in his or her possession on any street or highway or in any public place or in any place open to the public is guilty of a misdemeanor. This section does not apply to possession by a person under the age of 21 years making a delivery of an alcoholic beverage in pursuance of the order of his or her parent, responsible adult relative, or any other adult designated by the parent or legal guardian, or in pursuance of his or her employment. That person shall have a complete defense if he or she was following, in a timely manner, the reasonable instructions of his or her parent, legal guardian, responsible adult relative, or adult designee relating to disposition of the alcoholic beverage.
(b) Unless otherwise provided by law, where a peace officer has lawfully entered the premises, the peace officer may seize any alcoholic beverage in plain view that is in the possession of, or provided to, a person under the age of 21 years at social gatherings, when those gatherings are open to the public, 10 or more persons under the age of 21 years are participating, persons under the age of 21 years are consuming alcoholic beverages, and there is no supervision of the social gathering by a parent or guardian of one or more of the participants.
Where a peace officer has seized alcoholic beverages pursuant to this subdivision, the officer may destroy any alcoholic beverage contained in an opened container and in the possession of, or provided to, a person under the age of 21 years, and, with respect to alcoholic beverages in unopened containers, the officer shall impound those beverages for a period not to exceed seven working days pending a request for the release of those beverages by a person 21 years of age or older who is the lawful owner or resident of the property upon which the alcoholic beverages were seized. If no one requests release of the seized alcoholic beverages within that period, those beverages may be destroyed. "


Let''s be clear, I am not condoning underage drinking. But for those of you who say it''s because of the law, let''s really read those laws and see what they are ACTUALLY saying.

 

[lucyandroger]

SO and I don''t drink very often...maybe three or four times a year. It is NOT illegal to allow your child to have alcohol in your own residence in my state. If on one of those few occasions that we have celebratory champagne or something, my kid wants a taste, I''ll give it to them. I''m with the others that mentioned not wanting it to be this enticing, forbidden mystery.