When was the last time you googled "GIA CERTFIGATE"???

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 3/28/2008 5:17:15 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 3/28/2008 4:48:53 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 3/28/2008 11:46:48 AM
Author: DiaGem



But I am a bit confused with your Druze-Hezbolah example....

What was confusing DG?

This is a quote from Chaim''s article quoting the report from US govt with my highlight of the claim:

“Lebanon has a large expatriate community throughout the Middle East, Africa and parts of Latin America. They often work as brokers and traders. Many Lebanese ‘import-export’ concerns are found in free trade zones. Many of these Lebanese brokers network via family ties and are involved with underground finance and trade-based money laundering. Informal remittances and value transfer in the form of trade goods add substantially to the remittance flows from expatriates via official banking,” says the report to Congress.



“Expatriate Lebanese brokers are actively involved in the smuggling and laundering of diamonds in Africa. There are also reports that many in the Lebanese expatriate business community willingly or unwillingly give ‘charitable donations’ to representatives of Hezbollah (which is based in Lebanon). The funds are then repatriated or laundered back to Lebanon.”

I guess you dug deeper..., as I didnt notice the Druze connotation...:}

I think I will reconsider my earlier opinion after reading this report prepared with Chaim''s assisitance
http://www.diamondintelligenceonline.com/download/files/pnacu151.pdf
It has been published in various forms on a few other NGO and US govt sites too
http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:E6Ei7-4GkrQJ:www.resourcebeneficiation.org/data/9928705_Report%2520on%2520Training%2520of%2520Mining%2520Cooperatives%2520in%2520Sierra%2520Leone.pdf+Prepared+by+Management+Systems+International+Under+USAID+Cooperative+Agreement+No.+636-A-00-03-00003&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=au

For anyone interested in a business study of what really goes on in third world diamond riche (and i am sure other artisanal mining resources) this is an excellent read.
It took me a week as it is 52 pages and heavy going. But the idea that the Druze lebonese are lovely people is not quite the one I came away with now. Life is always more complex than the simple ways we try to describe it.
Hats off to Chaim Even-Zohar for penning such an amazingly deep and etailed document. I learned a lot.

 

[purrfectpear]

As an outsider (consumer), all I got from the adamas link was that there were a lot of antisemitic posters whining. If they want to be taken seriously they need to check their politics at the door. If it''s about integrity in grading fine, if it''s about throwing rocks at people in power because of their real estate developments, sorry not interested in those views.

 

[adamasgem]

Date: 4/7/2008 12:06:16 PM
Author: purrfectpear
As an outsider (consumer), all I got from the adamas link was that there were a lot of antisemitic posters whining. If they want to be taken seriously they need to check their politics at the door. If it''s about integrity in grading fine, if it''s about throwing rocks at people in power because of their real estate developments, sorry not interested in those views.

I agree..

Unfortunately, these groups attempt to Hi-Jack a lot of things, besides airplanes, now including the IDEX forum.

 

[robbe]

hi, a stone that came out of my production in 2004, 7 ct pearshape was graded e vvs1 by hrd, and e vvs1 by igi (antwerp).
i sold it to a ny dealer who submitted it to gia (late 2004), and he got d-if from the gia in ny.
in 2007, the stone came back to me (like a boomerang!) with that gia certificate, and of course in 2007 the gia bribery scandal was well known all over the industry.
after regognizing this stone as one we had polished, i sent the stone to igi, and their grade was -again- e vvs1. hrd having their traditional 8 weeks turn around, i decided to skip hrd and asked for an update at gia (for the d if cert of course).
so the stone was sent to gia and..."sorry sir, the stone is -now- e vss1!!!"
no further explanation was provided.
when i asked for an explanation, gia just said that their internal file for this stone was lost (!!!hang on, lost???), so they had the stone graded as new.
since they do not have a record for this stone, they cannot recognize it and they must assign the grade which they see at the time of the examination, which of course is e vss1 as expected in 2004.
needless to say that the ny dealer who submitted the stone to gia in 2004 was later identified as one who was notoriously known for bribing the gia...

the bribery scandal is not only about gia, it affects our integrity as diamond manufacturers, dealers etc...
and if you want to know the best part, here it is; mark my words, the gia is going to get away with this, without a scratch.
best regards, robbe

 

[purrfectpear]

Just idle curiousity but what would be the aproximate $ difference on a 7 carat stone between D if and e vss1 ?

 

[adamasgem]

Date: 4/8/2008 1:10:08 PM
Author: robbe
hi, a stone that came out of my production in 2004, 7 ct pearshape was graded e vvs1 by hrd, and e vvs1 by igi (antwerp).
i sold it to a ny dealer who submitted it to gia (late 2004), and he got d-if from the gia in ny.
in 2007, the stone came back to me (like a boomerang!) with that gia certificate, and of course in 2007 the gia bribery scandal was well known all over the industry.
after regognizing this stone as one we had polished, i sent the stone to igi, and their grade was -again- e vvs1. hrd having their traditional 8 weeks turn around, i decided to skip hrd and asked for an update at gia (for the d if cert of course).
so the stone was sent to gia and...''sorry sir, the stone is -now- e vss1!!!''
no further explanation was provided.
when i asked for an explanation, gia just said that their internal file for this stone was lost (!!!hang on, lost???), so they had the stone graded as new.
since they do not have a record for this stone, they cannot recognize it and they must assign the grade which they see at the time of the examination, which of course is e vss1 as expected in 2004.
needless to say that the ny dealer who submitted the stone to gia in 2004 was later identified as one who was notoriously known for bribing the gia...

the bribery scandal is not only about gia, it affects our integrity as diamond manufacturers, dealers etc...
and if you want to know the best part, here it is; mark my words, the gia is going to get away with this, without a scratch.
best regards, robbe

You wouldn''t happen to have photocopies or scans of the original and new paper from GIA would you

It could come in handy as this progresses..

 

[adamasgem]

Date: 4/8/2008 3:28:27 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Just idle curiousity but what would be the aproximate $ difference on a 7 carat stone between D if and e vss1 ?

greater than $150,000 wholesale

 

[purrfectpear]

Date: 4/8/2008 3:35:05 PM
Author: adamasgem

Date: 4/8/2008 3:28:27 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Just idle curiousity but what would be the aproximate $ difference on a 7 carat stone between D if and e vss1 ?

greater than $150,000 wholesale

Well that explains why some would consider bribery

 

[adamasgem]

Date: 4/8/2008 3:44:56 PM
Author: purrfectpear

Date: 4/8/2008 3:35:05 PM
Author: adamasgem

Date: 4/8/2008 3:28:27 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Just idle curiousity but what would be the aproximate $ difference on a 7 carat stone between D if and e vss1 ?

greater than $150,000 wholesale

Well that explains why some would consider bribery

And that is peanuts when it comes to fancy colored goods...

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 4/8/2008 1:10:08 PM
Author: robbe
hi, a stone that came out of my production in 2004, 7 ct pearshape was graded e vvs1 by hrd, and e vvs1 by igi (antwerp).
i sold it to a ny dealer who submitted it to gia (late 2004), and he got d-if from the gia in ny.
in 2007, the stone came back to me (like a boomerang!) with that gia certificate, and of course in 2007 the gia bribery scandal was well known all over the industry.
after regognizing this stone as one we had polished, i sent the stone to igi, and their grade was -again- e vvs1. hrd having their traditional 8 weeks turn around, i decided to skip hrd and asked for an update at gia (for the d if cert of course).
so the stone was sent to gia and...'sorry sir, the stone is -now- e vss1!!!'
no further explanation was provided.
when i asked for an explanation, gia just said that their internal file for this stone was lost (!!!hang on, lost???), so they had the stone graded as new.
since they do not have a record for this stone, they cannot recognize it and they must assign the grade which they see at the time of the examination, which of course is e vss1 as expected in 2004.
needless to say that the ny dealer who submitted the stone to gia in 2004 was later identified as one who was notoriously known for bribing the gia...

the bribery scandal is not only about gia, it affects our integrity as diamond manufacturers, dealers etc...
and if you want to know the best part, here it is; mark my words, the gia is going to get away with this, without a scratch.
best regards, robbe

Robbe it is good to see that IGI maintained their grade, although they probably could reidentify with a horizon type program. You have occasionally popped in here in support of IGI, and I must say in my smaller experiance, I find they are far more consistant than GIA - what i see is exactly what i expect from them on every stone I ever saw, which to me is more important than my Dad is stricter than your Dad arguement.

Re the gIA's horizon records. If i imagine myself as a gIA bribee, laying under a palm tree on my fully paid first class vacation, and all of a sudden I thenk "hey, when I get back to work in a few weeks time, I must remeber to wipe that 7ct pear shape record off the Horizon system."

 

[adamasgem]

Date: 4/9/2008 4:22:14 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Re the gIA''s horizon records. If i imagine myself as a gIA bribee, laying under a palm tree on my fully paid first class vacation, and all of a sudden I thenk ''hey, when I get back to work in a few weeks time, I must remeber to wipe that 7ct pear shape record off the Horizon system.''

Sure probably points to supervisors, as I doubt the average grader would have the clearance to wipe a record.

Besides, if they had the original cert record and the cert, makes for another Pincione type lawsuit, in my opinion.

It would be interesting to get them into court with the apparent flim flam..

 

[diagem]

Date: 4/8/2008 1:10:08 PM
Author: robbe
hi, a stone that came out of my production in 2004, 7 ct pearshape was graded e vvs1 by hrd, and e vvs1 by igi (antwerp).
i sold it to a ny dealer who submitted it to gia (late 2004), and he got d-if from the gia in ny.
in 2007, the stone came back to me (like a boomerang!) with that gia certificate, and of course in 2007 the gia bribery scandal was well known all over the industry.
after regognizing this stone as one we had polished, i sent the stone to igi, and their grade was -again- e vvs1. hrd having their traditional 8 weeks turn around, i decided to skip hrd and asked for an update at gia (for the d if cert of course).
so the stone was sent to gia and...''sorry sir, the stone is -now- e vss1!!!''
no further explanation was provided.
when i asked for an explanation, gia just said that their internal file for this stone was lost (!!!hang on, lost???), so they had the stone graded as new.
since they do not have a record for this stone, they cannot recognize it and they must assign the grade which they see at the time of the examination, which of course is e vss1 as expected in 2004.
needless to say that the ny dealer who submitted the stone to gia in 2004 was later identified as one who was notoriously known for bribing the gia...

the bribery scandal is not only about gia, it affects our integrity as diamond manufacturers, dealers etc...
and if you want to know the best part, here it is; mark my words, the gia is going to get away with this, without a scratch.
best regards, robbe

Not so sure (I am an underdog in my thoughts..., I know

), I keep hearing different voices coming out of the industry closets!

 

[diagem]

Date: 3/29/2008 2:48:20 AM
Author: DiaGem

I hope some other Lab''s view an opportunity in the above highlighted line to get their act together and try to fill in that gap!
I am keeping (and hoping) my eyes on a new re-organization of Israel Diamond Institute (IDI) called ''World Gemological Institute'' WGI.

In my numerous meetings with their executive team, they were actually able to show me a genuine impression of being serious, professional and objective! And most important (in my opinion), they are willing to listen to the needs of professionals as well as the consumers! It is still the beginning..., but I am keeping my optimism!

The beginning a delicate stage..., this is where it can be aimed onto the right track. And their willingness is genuinely there!

This is their official site: http://www.worldgemology.org/Home.aspx
Please feel free to visit the site and state opinions..., I would be happy to relay any of the relevant opinions!

Here is a link from National Jeweler Network:

http://www.nationaljewelernetwork.com/njn/content_display/diamonds/e3i3ee04370973a581ceb62f644d639c5f3

I did notice some positive feedback''s about WGI from clients at the BaselWorld 2008!
Some compared with other leading labs and were positively surprised on their grading...

I also noticed some Diamond manufacturers marketing Diamonds with both a WGI report and other leading lab reports for instant comparisons...

Worth following...

 

[Yupi]

robbe,
not sure if you''d ever read this
all interesting comments
i just bought two GIA certs round
damn i should hv sent you the specs before i did so

kind regards
yupi