When the husband cheats it's the wife's fault

[VRBeauty]

of course, VR, but my comment was directed at that particular self-proclaimed and self-professed "Christian".......

No "of course" about it, actually. Christians live and breathe in the patriarchy just like everyone else, and have helped sustain it more than most. And anyone who thinks Pat Robertson and his ilk are dinosaurs doomed to extinction, aren't paying attention to the up-and-comers like the New Calvinist, megachurch pastor Mark Driscoll. Just google "Mark Driscoll on women" and you'll see that there are plenty of followers for medieval attitudes towards women, and belief that they are responsible for how their husband behaves.

It is no more appropriate or accurate to suggest that all Christian men are misogynists than it is to suggest that all Muslim men are terrorists.

I'm not suggesting "all" Christian males are. What I'm pointing out is that there are still churches all over this country where attitudes like Robertson's come from the pulpit on any given Sunday.

My original post was responding MZ's original post, which seemed to make a blanket statement about Christian men. And while there are may be churches that embrace in the Robertson's viewpoints, there are also many churches that eschew them.

And in the spirit of honoring PS's guidelines, I'm going to step out of this discussion now.

 

[partgypsy]

I think this is one of the main reason why ceased becoming a church goer. I was raised devotely, did my praying every night. But when I read the Bible, did not understand, why it was OK to give one's daughters to a mob to be raped and killed so the rest of his family would be spared. That there was a double standard on the values of humans, depending on what their gender is. Churches do maintain tradition. Many of the lessons on how to be a good person still hold true. Others are mired in a culture that is thousands of years behind in regards to male and female equality.

There are differences between the genders, and that does inform different behaviors and division of labor. But to use that to hold one gender to different moral standard, such as monogamy in a marriage, I don't agree. I don't see how a good religious leader would do such a thing, if he was truly leading his flock. You can't hold only half of your congregation responsible for their behavior.

I do feel that married partners should love and care and simply be good to each other.

But contrary to Pat's belief, I don't think the woman being "nice" is a cure for cheating (guys who want to will do it regardless and then just lie about it). Rather it is an indirect way for the church to control women's behavior, set different standards and attitudes about the relative worth of a person, for example make a women's worth in relationship only to how they please their husband, which is a slippery slope and can justify some pretty bad behavior on the part of the man.

 

[luv2sparkle]

I am not a fan of Pat Robertson and do not think he speaks for even a tiny majority of bible believing Christians. The man is quite ridiculous. I will say though that the comments you have made about Mark Driscoll are taken way out of context. While I don't agree with some of the things he says and believes he holds men accountable for their own actions. You would have to listen to more than just a few sound bites taken out of context to get the full picture. He sticks his foot in his mouth plenty, and sometimes I am sure Grace gives him a few choice comments when he gets home, but on this issue he really is not anywhere near the same league with ol Pat.

 

[Circe]

I think this is one of the main reason why ceased becoming a church goer. I was raised devotely, did my praying every night. But when I read the Bible, did not understand, why it was OK to give one's daughters to a mob to be raped and killed so the rest of his family would be spared. That there was a double standard on the values of humans, depending on what their gender is. Churches do maintain tradition. Many of the lessons on how to be a good person still hold true. Others are mired in a culture that is thousands of years behind in regards to male and female equality.

There are differences between the genders, and that does inform different behaviors and division of labor. But to use that to hold one gender to different moral standard, such as monogamy in a marriage, I don't agree. I don't see how a good religious leader would do such a thing, if he was truly leading his flock. You can't hold only half of your congregation responsible for their behavior.

I do feel that married partners should love and care and simply be good to each other.

But contrary to Pat's belief, I don't think the woman being "nice" is a cure for cheating (guys who want to will do it regardless and then just lie about it). Rather it is an indirect way for the church to control women's behavior, set different standards and attitudes about the relative worth of a person, for example make a women's worth in relationship only to how they please their husband, which is a slippery slope and can justify some pretty bad behavior on the part of the man.

This is a really good post. Thank you.

 

[Gypsy]

"Once upon a time, in a land far away, a beautiful, independent,
self-assured princess happened upon a frog as she sat, contemplating
ecological issues on the shores of an unpolluted pond in a verdant
meadow near her castle.

The frog hopped into the princess' lap and
said:
"Elegant Lady, I was once a handsome prince, until an evil witch cast
a spell upon me. One kiss from you, however, and I will turn back
into the dapper, young prince that I am and then, my sweet, we can marry
and setup housekeeping in your castle with my mother, where you can
prepare my meals, clean my clothes, bear my children, and forever feel
grateful and happy doing so."

That night, as the princess dined sumptuously on a repast of lightly
sauted frog legs seasoned in a white wine and onion cream sauce,
she chuckled to herself and thought:

I don't ****ing think so!!!"

Ahh yes. This is what I would teach my daughters.

 

[Tuckins1]

I have heard many clips of his inane rambling answers to people's various questions... He's a twit.

 

[HollyS]

"I think this is one of the main reason why ceased becoming a church goer."

Others, no matter how they display their craziness or hypocrisy, should not interfere with your personal relationship to God. Giving up on Him because Joe Blow is a creep and thumps his Bible at the same time? God is aware of Joe. Jesus himself spoke out against such "religious" nitwits. Christianity is not "owned" by the zealots and dipsh*ts.

As for Pat . . . he's been just this side of insanity for some time. This pronouncement didn't surprise me. If we didn't give him his moment in the spotlight, if we just ignored him, perhaps he would just shuffle off the stage. Can I get an "Amen"?

 

[movie zombie]

amen, sister!

 

[NOYFB]

Oh wow....I'm not even going to step foot into this conversation


....backs out slowly hoping no one notices...

 

[anne_h]

As a woman, I found "Lean In" by Sheryl Sandberg very empowering. I loved the empirical studies cited.

One of my male colleagues said "What happened? You used to be such a good listener!"

Anne