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what type of blue is this sapphire

fzpanda

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 22, 2011
Messages
59
I am curious what type of blue would people consider this sapphire has. in terms of hue, saturation, and tone. Pictures were taken under day light on my balcony. Inputs are highly appreciated.

Thanks!

DSC06267.JPG

DSC06269.JPG
 

violet3

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Messages
3,793
i'm sure you'll have the experts chime in - i don't know what the color/saturation is, but i did want to say i think it's GORGEOUS!
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
37,517
Based on two static pictures, here's my guess. It is probably a medium to medium dark toned sapphire that is violetish blue with medium to strong saturation. Note that every monitor calibration is different, hence others will see the colour differently.
 

fzpanda

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 22, 2011
Messages
59
Chrono|1314793728|3006181 said:
Based on two static pictures, here's my guess. It is probably a medium to medium dark toned sapphire that is violetish blue with medium to strong saturation. Note that every monitor calibration is different, hence others will see the colour differently.
Thanks Chrono for your input. That's where my confusions comes from... The stone comes with a GRS certificate stating the color as being "cornflower blue". How is it translated into GIA color terms? Does cornflower blue automatically imply a vivid saturation?
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
37,517
Cornflower implies a certain hue of blue, referring to the slightly violetish blue of a cornflower flower. I am unsure if it has any bearing on the saturation of colour but I do know that it does not translate in any colour scale, be it GIA or AGL. It is one of those romantised descriptions much like pidgeon's blood red. GRS is a very reputable lab, thus, I am disappointed that they still use these descriptors in their memos.

cornflowers.jpg

flower_Cornflower.jpg
 

fzpanda

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 22, 2011
Messages
59
Looking at the sapphire, it appears to me that the color is a bright, pure blue, with no violetish undertone at all. Hopefully that is not a very common color, because I paid a high premium for it..
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
37,517
This is why I never state with 100% certainty what a colour of a stone will look like in real life based on pictures posted here. There are too many variables and the only way to judge a gemstone is to have it in hand.

Interestingly enough, fabled and most expensive colour of sapphire are ones with a touch of violet. The Kashmir sapphire is a velvety slightly violetish blue, highly saturated in medium to medium dark tone with a slightly sleepy appearance is the most expensive of all sapphires. These carry a heavy premium.

Not saying it isn't prized, but the next most popular blue sapphire are the "cornflower blue". Supposedly a medium blue (with varying shades), that is a brighter stone overall. A cornflower is the bluest flower in nature, but as we all know, even flower colour will vary from one to another, plus no flower is 100% blue IRL (that I know of, but feel free to prove me incorrect), which is why I dislike such terms like cornflower in describing a stone that is for sale or in a lab memo.

Is the stone unheated?
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
23,285
Chrono|1314797583|3006247 said:
Cornflower implies a certain hue of blue, referring to the slightly violetish blue of a cornflower flower. I am unsure if it has any bearing on the saturation of colour but I do know that it does not translate in any colour scale, be it GIA or AGL. It is one of those romantised descriptions much like pidgeon's blood red. GRS is a very reputable lab, thus, I am disappointed that they still use these descriptors in their memos.

I agree, and the GRS color designations really aggravate me. I feel they cater more towards vendors than consumers with their flowery and utter nonsense descriptions of color. I am not a gemologist, but I have been collecting for over 20 years, and to me the saturation on that gem is moderately strong (if your photos are accurate for color). Stronger saturations would be strong, and then vivid. Therefore, to me it has medium quality saturation. Others may disagree. I feel the tone is medium to medium dark.
 

fzpanda

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 22, 2011
Messages
59
Thanks Chrono. Yes, it is unheated, and it is relatively large (5.7CTs), origin is Sri Lanka. Although it is not cheap (over 10k), I still didn't pay the price for a Perfect stone given its size and color and unheated status. And the catch is there is a noticeable fingerprint on the table.. (picture attached below, and it was shot at the angle at which inclusion is most visible) Although the inclusion is not that noticeable at all angles; but still, if I look for it, it is there.... So I am debating if I should return the sapphire or not. Do you think that inclusion will have a huge impact on the value of the stone? I really like the color, but the inclusion is kind of bothering me too.

DSC06270.jpg

DSC06271.jpg

DSC06272.jpg

DSC06266_1.jpg
 

fzpanda

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 22, 2011
Messages
59
Thanks TL. I totally agree with you. Based on my previous communications with GRS, they do seem to be more protective toward the vendors than toward us consumers. For instance, I tried to verify the color of another stone of mine with GRS before, but couldn't do so because GRS is not willing to release any information about the stone on their certificate unless the person who inquires is also the original owner of the certificate... How ridiculous.




TL|1314800820|3006295 said:
Chrono|1314797583|3006247 said:
Cornflower implies a certain hue of blue, referring to the slightly violetish blue of a cornflower flower. I am unsure if it has any bearing on the saturation of colour but I do know that it does not translate in any colour scale, be it GIA or AGL. It is one of those romantised descriptions much like pidgeon's blood red. GRS is a very reputable lab, thus, I am disappointed that they still use these descriptors in their memos.

I agree, and the GRS color designations really aggravate me. I feel they cater more towards vendors than consumers with their flowery and utter nonsense descriptions of color. I am not a gemologist, but I have been collecting for over 20 years, and to me the saturation on that gem is moderately strong (if your photos are accurate for color). Stronger saturations would be strong, and then vivid. Therefore, to me it has medium quality saturation. Others may disagree. I feel the tone is medium to medium dark.
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
23,285
fzpanda|1314801126|3006301 said:
Thanks TL. I totally agree with you. Based on my previous communications with GRS, they do seem to be more protective toward the vendors than toward us consumers. For instance, I tried to verify the color of another stone of mine with GRS before, but couldn't do so because GRS is not willing to release any information about the stone on their certificate unless the person who inquires is also the original owner of the certificate... How ridiculous.




TL|1314800820|3006295 said:
Chrono|1314797583|3006247 said:
Cornflower implies a certain hue of blue, referring to the slightly violetish blue of a cornflower flower. I am unsure if it has any bearing on the saturation of colour but I do know that it does not translate in any colour scale, be it GIA or AGL. It is one of those romantised descriptions much like pidgeon's blood red. GRS is a very reputable lab, thus, I am disappointed that they still use these descriptors in their memos.

I agree, and the GRS color designations really aggravate me. I feel they cater more towards vendors than consumers with their flowery and utter nonsense descriptions of color. I am not a gemologist, but I have been collecting for over 20 years, and to me the saturation on that gem is moderately strong (if your photos are accurate for color). Stronger saturations would be strong, and then vivid. Therefore, to me it has medium quality saturation. Others may disagree. I feel the tone is medium to medium dark.
That is ridiculous. Another reason I have no respect for GRS.

For truly accurate information on the quality of color on your stone, and based on scientific data, you should send it for a color quality prestige report from AGL (American Gem Lab). All other labs pale in comparison as far as providing any information on the quality of your stone.

As far as the price, it is a fair price. I wouldn't say it's a fantastic buy, or expensive, but it is over five carats, and unheated sapphires are expensive, especially over five carats. In your last photos, I see some violet. Is it a color shifter?
 

fzpanda

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 22, 2011
Messages
59
Thanks for the advice. Yeah, I know the price is fair, but I still wouldn't have bought the sapphire if not for the "cornflower blue" the vendor advertised, knowing that there is a semi-large fingerprint inclusion...

P.S I don't think this sapphire is a color shifter, at least the color change is not significant.


TL|1314801865|3006310 said:
fzpanda|1314801126|3006301 said:
For truly accurate information on the quality of color on your stone, and based on scientific data, you should send it for a color quality prestige report from AGL (American Gem Lab). All other labs pale in comparison as far as providing any information on the quality of your stone.

As far as the price, it is a fair price. I wouldn't say it's a fantastic buy, or expensive, but it is over five carats, and unheated sapphires are expensive, especially over five carats. In your last photos, I see some violet. Is it a color shifter?
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
23,285
fzpanda|1314802473|3006316 said:
Thanks for the advice. Yeah, I know the price is fair, but I still wouldn't have bought the sapphire if not for the "cornflower blue" the vendor advertised, knowing that there is a semi-large fingerprint inclusion...

P.S I don't think this sapphire is a color shifter, at least the color change is not significant.


TL|1314801865|3006310 said:
fzpanda|1314801126|3006301 said:
For truly accurate information on the quality of color on your stone, and based on scientific data, you should send it for a color quality prestige report from AGL (American Gem Lab). All other labs pale in comparison as far as providing any information on the quality of your stone.

As far as the price, it is a fair price. I wouldn't say it's a fantastic buy, or expensive, but it is over five carats, and unheated sapphires are expensive, especially over five carats. In your last photos, I see some violet. Is it a color shifter?
If you're not 100% happy, then return it. $10K is still a lot of money and you can afford to look for something else.

Honestly, unless you have your heart set on a sapphire, I would look for another kind of gemstone. Sapphires are really overpriced right now due to the Kate Middleton/Princess Diana hype.
 

Justin_Cutter

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 20, 2011
Messages
539
TL has a great point about sapphire prices being elevated at the moment. My advice is if you have your heart set on a sapphire then just hang in there and don't settle for less than what you really are looking for. Spend some time with the stone and don't make a hasty decision. The GRS situation is pathetic. I would definitely send it off to AGL if you plan on keeping it to get a truly accurate description of the stone.

~Justin
 

fzpanda

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 22, 2011
Messages
59
Thanks for the good advice. I think I will just go ahead and return the sapphire. I am a sucker for "blue" gemstones, and I do have a thing for sapphire. My worry is that with depreciation of USD, and the expanding market of conundrum in China, the price of sapphire will probably only go up from here...

Just curious, what was the average price to pay for a 5+ carat unheated, Ceylon sapphire, with reasonable color, back in the good old days?
 
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