What to do when your trust is broken?

[anon489]

Hi all

I normally post on PS under a different name but wanted to remain anonymous for this one.

I am having some issues about DH being in contact with an ex-girlfriend and I’m not quite sure how to deal with it. Sorry this is really long but I hope the history gives some perspective.

Brief background (all before DH and I met) – Ex GF lives in another country but they met when she was living here a few years ago. They were friends while she lived here and for a couple of years afterwards but never dated because she had a boyfriend. When she broke up with the boyfriend, she intimated to DH that she had feelings for him. He went to see her twice over the course of a few months and they started a relationship over this time. He was contemplating moving there but on the second trip things obviously didn’t pan out and he came home. She had received an upsetting medical diagnosis around that time (not life threatening but certainly life altering) so was not in a good place. I think the relationship was in limbo for a while, not really on or off but they were still in contact.

DH and I met and started going out a few months after he got home from the second trip. He told me they had broken up when he left her country after the second trip and that they were in irregular contact. One day he asked me to send a message from his phone while we were driving and the last message on his phone was from her. I looked back and there were quite a few messages between them including one where she asked whether he was seeing anyone and he just replied “some girls have asked me out”. We hadn’t been going out that long but things had moved pretty quickly so I was a little put out but he assured me it was only because he didn’t want her to get upset when she was already depressed. (I know she was in a bad way from independent sources). I told him I was uncomfortable with it and didn’t think it was fair to lie to her even if it would upset her but I let it go. Over the next little while, he would tell her things he was doing and occasionally add my name to the list of people without explaining who I was. Eventually she worked it out and was quite upset but then sent him a message saying she knew it hadn’t worked out because she hadn’t been very nice to him and wished him the best. I know all of this because he told me about it and showed me “selected” bits of the correspondence. After that he lead me to believe they were in occasional contact only. I told him again that I was uncomfortable with it but I let it go. In my mind I still had some nagging doubts, mainly about the nature of their relationship and how things had ended (I couldn’t quite put my finger on it but he always just seemed a little bitter about it) and the level of ongoing contact.

Fast forward about a year and I was using his computer one night and found he had left his email account open. I am not proud of myself for this and don’t really know what possessed me to do it, but there was a folder with her name on it and I started looking through the emails. From the emails from around the time he came home, it wasn’t clear whether they were together or not because it wasn’t BF/GF style correspondence but there were general emails talking about whether they would see each other again, about her coming back here, talking about meeting up for holidays etc so there was obviously something unresolved. There was nothing romantic or inappropriate in the emails after the time that we started going out and they were pretty irregular towards the end but it was still much more contact between them than he had led me to believe. I got really angry about it but his view was that they hadn’t been in contact for ages, there was nothing inappropriate in the emails, they were just going back to the friendship they had before their short relationship and he couldn’t possibly be cheating on me because she lives overseas. My issue was not with the fact that I thought he was cheating (because physically it was not possible) but more that I didn’t think he had been honest with me about their relationship, when they broke up and the level of contact he had with her since then and that there were still some unresolved issues. He told me that he didn’t understand what the issue was but that he loved me and if it made me uncomfortable he would stop contacting her. So I told him I was uncomfortable and asked him to stop. He made a big show of deleting all the emails (not at my request) and that was that.

Fast forward about another year and we are now married. I opened his computer and skype was open and the last few messages were from her. I looked back through the history and they have been in regular contact (via written messages) over the last year, often with messages every couple of days or more. Again there is nothing romantic in the emails but I just feel this level of contact is inappropriate, especially since he knows I am not comfortable with it and has said he would stop. He even says in some of the messages to her that he couldn’t reply to messages because I am in the room and wouldn’t like it. He even told her he had sent a message from another source because I had gone through his emails. She now thinks I am crazy psycho wife (maybe she’s right?) (To put this in perspective, I’m not a jealous person and I’ve never felt the need to check anyone’s phone or email before and I feel no need to do it in relation to any other aspect of his life. I also have no issues with any of his other exes or any of his female friends.)

He says he loves me, that they are just friends and he is just trying to support her through a difficult time (she is taking an extended period off work to try to find whether there is any “cure” for her medical condition). Even if all of this is true, he doesn’t seem to understand why I feel this is a betrayal of my trust and shows a complete and deliberate disregard for my feelings. He won’t even acknowledge that he has lied to me about it or is doing anything wrong even though he is clearly trying to hide it from me. He tells me he will stop if I “really really” want him to. For me this just isn’t enough given the long history behind this but I don’t know where we go from here? Am I overreacting? What do I do?

 

[Porridge]

Wow...I''m sorry Anon, I see where you''re coming from, I find this highly inappropriate. I have to say, I''m not a supporter of reading other people''s e-mails and messages, but I suppose you followed a gut feeling and you were right. I think it was disrespectful of him to carry on contact, when he told you he wouldn''t and when he knew it bothered you. And I think it''s extremely disrespectful to be talking about you to this women, saying he can''t talk to her because you''re there, and sending secret e-mails from other sources?!? That is just not on.

You need to clear your head, maybe write down exactly what it is that is bothering you and how you feel your trust has been broken. And then sit your husband down and explain it to him. I would still apologise for going through his private correspondance, but don''t dwell on it.

I''m really sorry Anon...I know that horrible knotted feeling in the pit of your stomach when something is not right in the relationship, and I really hope you two work this out. Hopefully, it really is just a friendship, and that''s why he can''t understand your feelings - he sees no reason for you to be jealous. All the more reason to explain it in black and white.

 

[kama_s]

I think you already know that this is a serious impasse in your relationship. He''s lying and hiding things from you. Neither is acceptable to any degree in a relationship.

Just some food for thought: what if she had no medical problems and lived in your city? How sure are you that your husband wouldn''t cheat on you with her?

 

[Circe]

The problem here isn''t the e-mailing, per se. The problem is that he''s doing something that makes you unhappy, knowing it makes you unhappy. He''s prioritizing something - supporting her, feeling like a white knight, maintaining his independence, something - ahead of being honest with you, and ahead of the possibility of your being hurt. That''s not good.

Honestly, I think I''d recommend couples counseling to deal with this: if he''s already "deleted" e-mails as a sop to conscience, it looks like an ongoing issue that''s tough to navigate one-on-one.

 

[RaiKai]

The concerns here for me are the concealment, lack of honesty, that he makes you out to be the bad guy, and, most concerning of all, that he prioritizes her feelings and his relationship over yours and your marriage.

It is healthy to have friendships aside from your primary partner. It is not healthy to put those friendships above your partner and relationship to them or to develop an intimacy you do not openly share with your partner.he is just being plain disrespectful to you and the marriage. Sorry, but, that does not make for a strong and healthy marriage.

He has been doing this from the start and it is clear he plans to continue. I am not even sure what to say if he does not see how being sneaky is not concerning! Time for counselling, as sharing your feelings one on one clearly is not something he listens too, or respects.

 

[Bella_mezzo]

Anon-I am so sorry! The problem is not so much the emails it''s the lack of honesty. IMO, if he though everything was ok about the emailing he''d be out in the open with it, but he''s not. That is a serious breach of trust and one that he needs to understand. As much as he wants to be friends with this girl, he''s your husband and you come first. If his relationship with her makes you, his wife, uncomfortable, then that is a serious thing and needs to be treated as such.

I feel for you as DH and I went through some majot situtations about trust. It''s something that can definitely be worked through, but it took a lot of effort on both of our parts, a period of time broken up (it was just before we got married), and counseling. We are in such a better place now, and our situtation was more extreme/had to do with compulsive behaviors, huge HUGS to you!

 

[lyra]

My reply got eaten.

I would not be okay with this. It is emotional cheating. He is being disrespectful and dishonest. I would be questioning his future fidelity after this. You might try counselling if he''s willing. If he''s not, I would likely find this as a deal-breaker in my marriage. You should be the priority, that''s the way marriage should work. Good luck.

 

[february2003bride]

Anon489-

I am so sorry

What your husband is doing is extremely inappropriate. Sending e-mails from an e-mail address that you don''t know about it sneaking around. This is very personal but I''m posting it to you so that you know that you aren''t a crazy, psycho wife. My DH had an emotional affair that last a few weeks when we had been married about 20 months. Our marriage wasn''t going well- his parents lived in our town for about 11 months and it was horrible. Our lives- specifically dH''s- revolved around his parents. We had a baby, were building a house and we were arguing constantly because his parents were basically two additional children. An ex-gf of his who is a professional mistress (Not kidding. she loves married men.) called him to catch up. He was venting to her about us and she "sympathized" with him as her own marriage was over (due to her cheating with a co-worker). Her ex-DH is from another culture so she would "sympathize" about the arguments saying they were exactly the same as the ones she and her ex-DH would have. They started talking pretty regularly and around that time I noticed a change in DH''s behavior. I got very suspicious and one day while he was at work, went into his personal e-mail account and found an extremely inappropriate e-mail between the two of them.

To make a long story short, he adamently denied ever meeting up with her and said he never had an intentions too, that she was just a friend who could relate and vent too. My gut says it was heading that way because she knew what to say to get him to go to lunch with he and it be seen as innocent and an affair would have started. Go with your gut. The signs are there and he can deny all he wants, it''s in black and white on his computer. If it makes you uncomfortable, he needs to stop. Period. DH had contact one last time with the ex-gf to tell her that they couldn''t talk EVER again. She did try to Facebook him last year and he immediately told me about it. I told him no way and he put her on ignore.

If someone had asked me before all of that if my DH would ever have any type of inappropriate contact with another woman I would have 100% firmly said no. Not my DH. It took a long time for me to trust DH again and it was his actions that had to get me to trust him. I''m not worried at all that he''ll randomly hook up with someone. It''s this specific woman. I went into all of his e-mails, including work, for a long time afterwards. Sometimes telling him, sometimes not. I don''t anymore because I DO trust DH and am certain that if the ex tried anything again, he would ignore her. I was going to leave him after I found out and told him so. The thought of losing his wife & his kids scared the cr*p out of him. He knows there are no more chances and our marriage is 1000 times better.

It sounds like your DH just isn''t taking it seriously how bothered you are by this. That he''s sneaking around is a RED FLAG. It''s NOT ok. You are not a crazy psycho wife! If it hasn''t been made clear that you are uncomfortable and want them to not have any contact, make it known now. If he doesn''t respect that, another RED FLAG.

Good luck! ((huge hugs))

 

[Laila619]

Date: 5/7/2010 10:59:57 AM
Author: lyra
My reply got eaten.

I would not be okay with this. It is emotional cheating. He is being disrespectful and dishonest. I would be questioning his future fidelity after this. You might try counselling if he''s willing. If he''s not, I would likely find this as a deal-breaker in my marriage. You should be the priority, that''s the way marriage should work. Good luck.

I agree. I wish you a ton of luck. It''s an awful situation to be in and I truly feel for you. Are you planning on confronting him?

 

[MMMD]

I''m not agreeing with everyone else. He married you. This other woman was available he could have married her instead of you. Some relationships turn into beautiful friendships. He''s sneaking because you want him to end this friendship and he doesn''t want to. I''ve been married 23 years and I would never tell my DH who he could correspond with, he''s a grown man and not my property. It sounds to me that you want your DH to "prove" he loves you more than her. He does, he married you. Let him have his friends.

 

[lilyfoot]

Date: 5/7/2010 12:26:52 PM
Author: MMMD
I''m not agreeing with everyone else. He married you. This other woman was available he could have married her instead of you. Some relationships turn into beautiful friendships. He''s sneaking because you want him to end this friendship and he doesn''t want to. I''ve been married 23 years and I would never tell my DH who he could correspond with, he''s a grown man and not my property. It sounds to me that you want your DH to ''prove'' he loves you more than her. He does, he married you. Let him have his friends.

MMMD, I respect your point of view, and can actually see where you''re coming from.

However, I don''t think the husband''s behavior is "right" in this situation. If he wanted to continue a friendship with this lady, he needed to be upfront and honest with his wife about it, IMO. Nobody can make you do something. He is not sneaking just because his wife "doesn''t like it", IMO, he is sneaking because he knows it is wrong, carrying on a "friendship" with this ex-girlfriend. He is creating other email accounts his wife doesn''t know about because he knows what he is doing is wrong, and he doesn''t want his wife to see the correspondence.

Unfortunately, I think the behavior of both parties in this relationship indicate much larger trust, respect, and communication issues than what it may look like on the surface. The husband cutting off communication with the ex is not an immediate solution to these issues, IMO.

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 5/7/2010 1:01:30 PM
Author: lilyfoot

MMMD, I respect your point of view, and can actually see where you''re coming from.

However, I don''t think the husband''s behavior is ''right'' in this situation. If he wanted to continue a friendship with this lady, he needed to be upfront and honest with his wife about it, IMO. Nobody can make you do something. He is not sneaking just because his wife ''doesn''t like it'', IMO, he is sneaking because he knows it is wrong, carrying on a ''friendship'' with this ex-girlfriend. He is creating other email accounts his wife doesn''t know about because he knows what he is doing is wrong, and he doesn''t want his wife to see the correspondence.

Unfortunately, I think the behavior of both parties in this relationship indicate much larger trust, respect, and communication issues than what it may look like on the surface. The husband cutting off communication with the ex is not an immediate solution to these issues, IMO.

agreed.

once trust is broken, it can never be regained.....that''s my personal experience.

and there is now a history over many years of less than honest representation of his ongoing communications with the ex-girlfriend.

i''d get myself to counseling w/o him to determine if i can accept him as he is [before you try and change someone else, remember how hard it is to change yourself].
i''d get him to counseling with me to address how detrimental this is to the marriage.

good luck,

mz

 

[RaiKai]

Date: 5/7/2010 12:26:52 PM
Author: MMMD
I'm not agreeing with everyone else. He married you. This other woman was available he could have married her instead of you. Some relationships turn into beautiful friendships. He's sneaking because you want him to end this friendship and he doesn't want to. I've been married 23 years and I would never tell my DH who he could correspond with, he's a grown man and not my property. It sounds to me that you want your DH to 'prove' he loves you more than her. He does, he married you. Let him have his friends.

My DH has female friends. I have male friends. We don't dictate the others friendships. The difference between our situation and Anons situation is that we don't lie about those relationships to each other. And, we also respect each other as partners to ensure those friends are aware that our marriage is our primary relationship. We do not ever speak disrespectfully of our partners, deny our relationship, or so on to these friends.

From my understanding, Anon only grew concerned because what he TOLD her about her friendship (i.e. infrequent contact) was clearly not what was going on (i.e. frequent and daily contact). Her husband was not even honest to this other woman that he was DATING Anon....she had to figure it out by his coded references to Anon! He was not honest about the nature of his friendship with this other woman from the moment they started dating - of course Anon has some concerns!

Anon has said her husband has other female friends where this issue does not arise and where she does not have concerns. I don't think this is a case of her being overly jealous or not letting him have his friends.

 

[february2003bride]

Date: 5/7/2010 12:26:52 PM
Author: MMMD
I''m not agreeing with everyone else. He married you. This other woman was available he could have married her instead of you. Some relationships turn into beautiful friendships. He''s sneaking because you want him to end this friendship and he doesn''t want to. I''ve been married 23 years and I would never tell my DH who he could correspond with, he''s a grown man and not my property. It sounds to me that you want your DH to ''prove'' he loves you more than her. He does, he married you. Let him have his friends.

No way. DH has female friends and I have male friends. I would never send an e-mail from a secret e-mail account to any of my guy friends so that DH couldn''t see it. That''s shady and is sneaking around. I would never want DH to end any of his friends that he has with women (and most of them are my friends too) unless my gut told me or I had proof like Anon has that it''s inappropriate. I don''t get that from Anon''s post at all, that he can''t have any female friends. Its one specific person and her DH is encouraging the friendship and not openly either.

 

[Guilty Pleasure]

The biggest problem in my opinion is that he built a "team" with this other woman, casting Anon as the opposing team. By creating a secret email and talking about his wife in this negative way - "she''s mad at me talking to you, so I can''t answer when she''s in the room" - he is creating a bond with this other woman that damages his marriage. In fact, he''s nurturing some sort of Romeo and Juliet bond with her, where they want to have a relationship (be it friendship or something more) and the circumstances of the universe (his marriage) are keeping them apart.

My husband is welcome to be friendly with other women, but WE are the team, not him and some ex-gf.

 

[RaiKai]

Date: 5/7/2010 2:06:06 PM
Author: Guilty Pleasure
The biggest problem in my opinion is that he built a ''team'' with this other woman, casting Anon as the opposing team. By creating a secret email and talking about his wife in this negative way - ''she''s mad at me talking to you, so I can''t answer when she''s in the room'' - he is creating a bond with this other woman that damages his marriage. In fact, he''s nurturing some sort of Romeo and Juliet bond with her, where they want to have a relationship (be it friendship or something more) and the circumstances of the universe (his marriage) are keeping them apart.


My husband is welcome to be friendly with other women, but WE are the team, not him and some ex-gf.

Bingo. Just what I was trying to get at when I talked about him putting his relationship with this other woman ahead of his marriage. You said it much more clearly!

That to me is a major, major, major flag...and I believe a lot of the studies regarding affairs and such indicate these kinds of actions and attitudes ripen the foundations for an affair.

 

[Laila619]

Date: 5/7/2010 2:06:06 PM
Author: Guilty Pleasure
The biggest problem in my opinion is that he built a 'team' with this other woman, casting Anon as the opposing team. By creating a secret email and talking about his wife in this negative way - 'she's mad at me talking to you, so I can't answer when she's in the room' - he is creating a bond with this other woman that damages his marriage. In fact, he's nurturing some sort of Romeo and Juliet bond with her, where they want to have a relationship (be it friendship or something more) and the circumstances of the universe (his marriage) are keeping them apart.

My husband is welcome to be friendly with other women, but WE are the team, not him and some ex-gf.

Yes, exactly. I read a book on marital affairs once, and the author had a pretty interesting analogy: windows and doors. It's a little odd, but bear with me--he said that spouses should always have a window between each other (meaning everything is out in the open and nothing is hidden) and the couple should have a door between them and rest of the world (meaning the rest of the world is kept out of the marriage). What Anon's husband is doing is keeping his wife behind the closed door and making *her* the outsider.

 

[Black Jade]

I agree with the other posters. This is emotional adultery. Hubby''s priorities are not straight at all and he has (is) betraying you in a big way. Don''t let this one become about you reading the e-mails--that is a very secondary issue here. I am not pro-snooping but this guy has given you some big reasons to snoop.
something I have heard that I think is true is that when a woman cheats on a man, he is very concerned about the physical/sexual aspect of the cheating and his lack of trust shows up often as over-concern, inappropriate questioning about the physical aspect of the adultery. But when a man cheats on a woman, she is more concerned with the emotional aspect. Her dread is hearing that he loves the other woman and is closer to her, more than the actual sex. Here, there is no actual sex, but this guy is behaving as if he''s closer to this woman than to you and had betrayed you in a big way by not only being inappropriately close to her, and casting you in the role of the bad guy, but then in pretending that you are crazy for objecting, because there is no sex.
As all who read my posts know, I am very against divorce and for couple''s staying together, and often advise people to check what they may be doing that''s wrong (because you can''t fix your partner as easily as yourself). But in this case, red flags are going up all over. I hope that you can get this guy into couples'' counselling or something that will show that he takes you and your emotions seriously and is ready to do some serious repair work. I would be adamant about this if I were you, I really would. This sorry dude needs to get it into his head that his wife is always, without exception supposed to be number one in his book and to remember that what he said in his wedding vows about ''forsaking all others, keeping only onto you" didn''t just only mean the bedroom stuff.
If this woman has bad health, or her feelings will get hurt, or whatever, it doesn''t matter--he isn''t the person that is supposed to be worried about this now AT ALL. she will be just fine without him (and undoubtedly, find some other patsy to emotionally manipulate and con).

 

[onedrop]

Date: 5/7/2010 2:06:06 PM
Author: Guilty Pleasure
The biggest problem in my opinion is that he built a ''team'' with this other woman, casting Anon as the opposing team. By creating a secret email and talking about his wife in this negative way - ''she''s mad at me talking to you, so I can''t answer when she''s in the room'' - he is creating a bond with this other woman that damages his marriage. In fact, he''s nurturing some sort of Romeo and Juliet bond with her, where they want to have a relationship (be it friendship or something more) and the circumstances of the universe (his marriage) are keeping them apart.


My husband is welcome to be friendly with other women, but WE are the team, not him and some ex-gf.

^^^This is essentially how I feel. He knows you don''t approve yet he continued this relationship under wraps. He then brings this other women into the disagreement about the friendship by revealing to her that he''s using a secret e-mail account to send her messages and by saying that he can''t chat with her because you are in the room. Huge red flag to me.

For what it''s worth, I don''t feel you are overreacting. You believe that your feelings are not being taken into consideration and I feel that you are right in this case. Him hanging on to this relationship despite you voicing your legitimate concerns is troubling for me. I feel that if choices need to be made about relationship, then your husband should choose YOU. By him insisting on carrying on this friendship he is prioritizing this other woman''s feelings over yours.

Plus, I think his words about ending the friendship (because you want him to) are little hollow. He should on his own realize that this is hurting your marriage and choose to end this connection because of that. Hopefully he will come to that conclusion soon. I am so sorry you are going through this. I have been in similar situations myself in the past and it''s not a good place to find oneself. Here''s hoping that things will get better over time.

 

[tlh]

Date: 5/7/2010 5:02:31 PM
Author: onedrop

Date: 5/7/2010 2:06:06 PM
Author: Guilty Pleasure
The biggest problem in my opinion is that he built a ''team'' with this other woman, casting Anon as the opposing team. By creating a secret email and talking about his wife in this negative way - ''she''s mad at me talking to you, so I can''t answer when she''s in the room'' - he is creating a bond with this other woman that damages his marriage. In fact, he''s nurturing some sort of Romeo and Juliet bond with her, where they want to have a relationship (be it friendship or something more) and the circumstances of the universe (his marriage) are keeping them apart.


My husband is welcome to be friendly with other women, but WE are the team, not him and some ex-gf.

^^^This is essentially how I feel. He knows you don''t approve yet he continued this relationship under wraps. He then brings this other women into the disagreement about the friendship by revealing to her that he''s using a secret e-mail account to send her messages and by saying that he can''t chat with her because you are in the room. Huge red flag to me.

For what it''s worth, I don''t feel you are overreacting. You believe that your feelings are not being taken into consideration and I feel that you are right in this case. Him hanging on to this relationship despite you voicing your legitimate concerns is troubling for me. I feel that if choices need to be made about relationship, then your husband should choose YOU. By him insisting on carrying on this friendship he is prioritizing this other woman''s feelings over yours.

Plus, I think his words about ending the friendship (because you want him to) are little hollow. He should on his own realize that this is hurting your marriage and choose to end this connection because of that. Hopefully he will come to that conclusion soon. I am so sorry you are going through this. I have been in similar situations myself in the past and it''s not a good place to find oneself. Here''s hoping that things will get better over time.

This. I am sorry you are going through this right now. I think you are doing everything right in communicating your concerns to your husband, and I feel that he is disregarding that information by continueing connection. I think that this woman, no matter how depressed or whatever, does not need your husband to be her "crutch" to carry her burden and help her through this difficult time. There seems to be some sort of need she is fulfilling for him, that he needs to be able to have met through you... like that she "needs him" - but I just think it sounds shady, and like an emotional affair of sorts. My heart is with you, and I wish you the best.

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

I don''t think he is clear how wrong he is. In his mind, he is not touching, so no cheating, so you must be over reacting. This is so not true. He knows he is wrong, but he really seems to think it is your problem. I wouldn''t mention you know he has been lying, that just makes it more you in his mind. I would talk to a councilor on your own and get their advice. This is an emotional affair and until you either make it clear that you are willing to leave over this, or a marriage councilor gets through to him, nothing will change. He is having his cake and eating it too.
I want to echo the question, how far would it go if she weren''t in another country?

 

[yssie]

Date: 5/7/2010 2:06:06 PM
Author: Guilty Pleasure
The biggest problem in my opinion is that he built a ''team'' with this other woman, casting Anon as the opposing team. By creating a secret email and talking about his wife in this negative way - ''she''s mad at me talking to you, so I can''t answer when she''s in the room'' - he is creating a bond with this other woman that damages his marriage. In fact, he''s nurturing some sort of Romeo and Juliet bond with her, where they want to have a relationship (be it friendship or something more) and the circumstances of the universe (his marriage) are keeping them apart.

My husband is welcome to be friendly with other women, but WE are the team, not him and some ex-gf.

Perfectly said.


I''m sorry you''re going through this, anon

 

[Indylady]

Date: 5/7/2010 7:49:30 PM
Author: yssie

Date: 5/7/2010 2:06:06 PM

Author: Guilty Pleasure

The biggest problem in my opinion is that he built a ''team'' with this other woman, casting Anon as the opposing team. By creating a secret email and talking about his wife in this negative way - ''she''s mad at me talking to you, so I can''t answer when she''s in the room'' - he is creating a bond with this other woman that damages his marriage. In fact, he''s nurturing some sort of Romeo and Juliet bond with her, where they want to have a relationship (be it friendship or something more) and the circumstances of the universe (his marriage) are keeping them apart.


My husband is welcome to be friendly with other women, but WE are the team, not him and some ex-gf.

Perfectly said.



I''m sorry you''re going through this, anon

I agree; lots of hugs to you anon. That Romeo-Juliet analogy is exactly what I was thinking; something along the lines of a "star crossed lovers/friends" type story, in which the rest of the world (or you) just can''t understand their relationship.

Did she really imply you might be the psycho wife? That really supports what GP said earlier.

Her difficult time has just been too long-lasting. Surely she has other friends, and family, that can help her through this time.

 

[Haven]

I'm sorry you're going through this, anon. I agree with much of what has already been said--he is prioritizing her feelings over yours, he has made a team with this other woman and made you the opposite team, what he's doing constitutes emotional adultery, all of it.

I want to add this: He clearly has issues drawing appropriate boundaries. My father has the same problem. My father also has this constant desire to "rescue" everyone, or to be the good guy who helps everyone out. Growing up, he would often come to the aid of his friends and leave his family out to dry. (He continues to do this to this day.) As for the boundary issues, he had developed a couple inappropriate relationships with women outside of his marriage, and most of them started in a way that sounds like your DH's situation--they were out of town, communicated via email and phone, she had some major "issue" to deal with and was super needy and he was her emotional support, he hid details about their communication from my mom, etc. Finally, just two summers ago and after 30 years of marriage my father left my mom. I believe my mother is better off without him.

I have one more point to add: SAYING that he loves you is very different than ACTING like he loves you. I take very little stock in the things people say, and I put a lot of stock in their behavior and choices. If my husband never once told me that he loved me again after this moment, yet he continued to act the way he's been acting for the six years that I've known him, I would know without a doubt in my mind that that man loves me completely.

Your husband's choices and actions tell a very different story.

Big hugs, and good luck.

 

[Lilac]

Date: 5/8/2010 3:33:34 PM
Author: Haven

I have one more point to add: SAYING that he loves you is very different than ACTING like he loves you. I take very little stock in the things people say, and I put a lot of stock in their behavior and choices. If my husband never once told me that he loved me again after this moment, yet he continued to act the way he''s been acting for the six years that I''ve known him, I would know without a doubt in my mind that that man loves me completely.

Your husband''s choices and actions tell a very different story.

Big hugs, and good luck.

Completely agree with Haven. Actions speak a lot louder than words, and unfortunately, your husband''s actions show that he''s hiding things from you and he doesn''t really value your feelings on this. He can say he loves you all he wants, but until he starts SHOWING that he loves you and acting like it, his words mean very little.

*Hugs*

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I am sorry you''re going through this...but like others have pointed out, cheating isn''t simply a physical act...it can emotional too, and here is where I think he is leading an adulterous life.

Frankly, he''s disrespecting you and your wishes...he''s putting his "desire" for her above his desire to make his marriage a healthy, honest, open one. Whether or not she''s "sick", whether or not he''s being supportive of her during this troubling time isn''t a good enough reason to betray your trust...and honestly, it''s all rather subjective and can whitewashed any number of ways...but what is blazingly clear, is that he''s done what he''s done in direct disrespect of you. He''s been dubious and secretive and he''s mislead you...those things are, in my opinion, deal breakers.

If I were you, I''d have a really honest talk with him. I''d hold nothing back and I''d pull no punches back, you need to give him a courtesy he''s not extending to you--raw honesty...I''d tell him how you feel in frank terms. This sort of behavior is fundamentally unhealthy and cannot/will not be accepted if he wants your relationship with each other to continue. He doesn''t have the right to live a double life...he''s married now. He doesn''t have the right to disregard you...you''re married now. If he can''t or won''t do that for you, then you have nothing.

And, to be honest, whether or not this girl is sick isn''t reason enough to talk/skype/e-mail every day and covertly. Sorry...it''s just not. Extending caring thoughts is one thing...but it''s not a daily occurrence and it shouldn''t be.

I am so angry for you...seriously angry. It''s a complete joke. This is a married man carrying on this secret online communication with an ex-girlfriend and when you strip it down, it''s no different than any other man having an affair online...and that''s infuriating to me.

I''d kick his a$$...but you should probably be more mature than that....

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 5/9/2010 1:30:56 PM
Author: Italiahaircolor
I am sorry you''re going through this...but like others have pointed out, cheating isn''t simply a physical act...it can emotional too, and here is where I think he is leading an adulterous life.

Frankly, he''s disrespecting you and your wishes...he''s putting his ''desire'' for her above his desire to make his marriage a healthy, honest, open one. Whether or not she''s ''sick'', whether or not he''s being supportive of her during this troubling time isn''t a good enough reason to betray your trust...and honestly, it''s all rather subjective and can whitewashed any number of ways...but what is blazingly clear, is that he''s done what he''s done in direct disrespect of you. He''s been dubious and secretive and he''s mislead you...those things are, in my opinion, deal breakers.

If I were you, I''d have a really honest talk with him. I''d hold nothing back and I''d pull no punches back, you need to give him a courtesy he''s not extending to you--raw honesty...I''d tell him how you feel in frank terms. This sort of behavior is fundamentally unhealthy and cannot/will not be accepted if he wants your relationship with each other to continue. He doesn''t have the right to live a double life...he''s married now. He doesn''t have the right to disregard you...you''re married now. If he can''t or won''t do that for you, then you have nothing.

And, to be honest, whether or not this girl is sick isn''t reason enough to talk/skype/e-mail every day and covertly. Sorry...it''s just not. Extending caring thoughts is one thing...but it''s not a daily occurrence and it shouldn''t be.

I am so angry for you...seriously angry. It''s a complete joke. This is a married man carrying on this secret online communication with an ex-girlfriend and when you strip it down, it''s no different than any other man having an affair online...and that''s infuriating to me.

I''d kick his a$$...but you should probably be more mature than that....

LOL!

mz

 

[ImpatientOne]

He is disrespecting you and your marriage. JMHO (and thank goodness my husband agrees with this), but it is each partner''s responsibility to make sure the other feels safe and secure in the marriage. If one is doing something that makes the other uncomfortable, they need to stop. PERIOD. Neither of us would ever continue contact with a person of the opposite sex if we knew it would make the other feel uncomfortable.

 

[anon489]

Thankyou everyone for your considered responses and apologies for taking time to come back. I have been giving this a lot of thought and we also had a further discussion about it on the weekend. This response will probably be a bit rambling but my mind is just all over the place and I think writing it down is forcing me to articulate exactly what my issues are.

So we had a reasonably long conversation about it over the weekend.

I told him how upset I was that he had lied to me and gone behind my back to stay in contact with her and in particular that he clearly admits to her that he knows I am not comfortable with it but does it anyway.

In his view, he honestly doesn’t think he is doing anything wrong. His view is that she is just a friend so he doesn’t understand why I would want him to stop contact with her, so he didn’t even though he said he would. He doesn’t understand why I see her any differently to any of his other friends. I explained that my concern was that I don’t think he has ever been completely honest with me (or himself) about their relationship or what he is getting out of this ongoing contact. I told him I think there is an emotional attachment there which is why I have a problem with it. He admits he will email her when he is annoyed with me or thinks he isn’t getting enough attention from me but doesn’t seem to understand why I have a problem with this. Because he thinks there is nothing wrong with their friendship, he also won’t admit that he did anything wrong by lying about it.

He turned it into a broader discussion about our relationship in general. Things have been a little rough lately due to things unrelated to our relationship. I won’t go into detail but in a nutshell, as a result he thinks I have been mean and hard to live with (which I agree with to some extent) and I feel like he hasn’t supported me through a very tough time which has resulted in some of the meanness. When I asked what we were going to do to resolve our issues and move forward, his immediate response was “You need to change”. He told me all the things I need to change – I need to be nicer, more supportive, more attentive, compromise more. There was no mention about what he thought he needed to do.

I was furious. I certainly believe that I play a big part in what happens in our relationship and there are definitely things I could be doing to make things work better and I am willing to try but I don’t think it’s fair to blame all of our relationship problems on me. I think there is a lot of cyclicality in a relationship and it is up to both of us to reflect on our behaviour and break that cycle. I told him all the things I needed him to do, including to reflect on, and take responsibility for, his own behaviour, to really listen to what my issues are, to not blame me for everything in our relationship, to recognise the contribution I make to the relationship and to support me when things are tough. Gosh, that’s quite a list!

I honestly don’t think any of it sunk in. It was late at night and we were both really tired. We have had relatives staying all weekend so we haven’t spoken about it since and I think he feels we are done with the issue and that it will all blow over, but I am not done.

I think we need to go to counselling both separately and together. I tried to get him to go to counselling before we got married (a lot of his issues I think stem from his upbringing and both his siblings have been to counselling and they have also both told him he should) and he keeps telling me he will and never gets around to it. The main issue from my perspective is that he needs a lot of attention and even he admits that when he doesn’t get it, he acts out. I think also because his mother is so domineering, he comes to our relationship with the perspective that, because I am the woman I must be like his mother, and therefore anything I say or ask for must be unreasonable and therefore any disagreements must be my fault.

I know that this not all about him and I have my own issues to deal with. I know that I can certainly do more to try to make him feel more comfortable/secure but there is only so much I can do. My concern is that, at some point, he will do something that can’t be undone because he feels he isn’t getting enough attention from me. We aren’t there yet but this is starting to push the boundaries for me. He is also really keen for us to have children and I have asked him how he is going to respond when he gets less attention when we have children. I don’t know the answer to that either but obviously we have a lot to sort out before we go near having children.

I also wanted to thank everyone for their posts. I agree with almost everything and it has helped me to really put my finger on exactly what upsets me about this. I won’t reply to every post but please know I value all of the input.

I agree that it was wrong for me to read his emails and I have sincerely apologised to him. It doesn’t justify what I did, but he isn’t really fussed by this because he honestly doesn’t think he is doing anything wrong so isn’t that fussed that I read them. I only skim read them but I have asked him to read back over them to try to see it from my perspective but so far he hasn’t done this. To be honest, I’m not sure it’s really productive anyway since the issue is much larger than any individual email.

I agree with that there is an emotional attachment here that is not healthy. This is exactly why I have always had a problem with it. I don’t know whether it is pining for something that might have been if things had been different (ie Romeo and Juliet) or just a general need for attention because he feels that he is not getting it from me. It’s quite clear he feels he needs more attention from me but in my view it does not justify this behaviour, and especially not the dishonesty.

I also agree that the dishonesty/disregard for my feelings is hurtful. To me trust is absolutely critical in a relationship. We had a discussion about this issue and I thought we had agreed on what was to happen and he has completely disregarded this. It is fine for him to disagree and we could have talked about it more, but I certainly would not have gone into a marriage without resolving this if I had known that he wasn’t going to follow through with what we discussed.

Bella –mezzo and Feb2003bride – thanks for your personal posts. I appreciate how painful it must be to rehash this but it also helps me to think we can work this out. Thank you for taking the time to share.

MMMD - I generally agree that it is wrong for me to dictate his friendships and I haven’t with anyone else but the lack of honesty and openness and the extent of the contact suggest that there is something unresolved in this and that it is more than a normal platonic friendship. Yes, I do think he loves me and wants this marriage to work. But the bigger issue for resolution is why he feels the need to use her as a crutch. As such, I do think the relationship is inappropriate as it stands and needs to stop, although as others have pointed out, this is not the solution to the underlying problem.

Lilyfoot and MZ – you both make very good points – there is more to this than just the emails as you can probably gather from the above. It is quite clear we have some work to do, and I think MZ is right that a big part of that is me working out what I can live with because I can try to help with his insecurities but I can’t expect him, or me, to change entirely. Unless we can find some middle ground, I’m not sure it is sustainable.

Guiltypleasure – this is exactly right. This is the part that hurts me the most because not only does he acknowledge that he is going behind my back, he is willing to disclose this to her and laugh about it.

Laila – That is a really interesting analogy. I think it is generally very true. Although I do think that we all sometimes need to share outside the marriage to gain some perspective, it has to be done in way that doesn’t undermine that relationship in the eyes of others.

Haven – This is so true. One of things I love about him is that he is very generous with his time, but he needs to learn when to stop. I think because of his upbringing, he desperately wants approval and wants everyone to like him. I don’t want to stop him being thoughtful about other people because it is a good quality but he needs to learn boundaries. On a number of occasions, he has let me down because he can’t say no to other people. None of it is major, but it all forms part of a pattern. It also makes it easy for him to make me look like the bad guy because I am getting angry with him when he is trying to help someone else. I also completely agree with your second point. We are completely different in how we express our love for one another. He needs to hear it all the time, and I don’t say it enough for him, and I need him to show he means it rather than just saying it.

I think I am going to write down how I feel about all of this, both for me and also possibly to DH so he can think about it without the emotion in the heat of the moment and without immediately jumping into blame mode.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I am floored...absolutely down on the ground floored.

This husband of yours is a trip. How can he sit there and just not even commit to cutting the contact with this woman after you expressed your pain over it. I don''t know how you managed not to pop off on him, the likes of which he''d never experienced before...I, for one, would have strung together a bunch of 4 letter words and topped it off with a slap upside his head. His callous disregard for you is nothing short of disgusting....you are his wife, his life partner, his supposed best friend and he''s treating like a fling, a casual acquaintance, a no-one-special. And from the outside in, it''s infuriating to see.

I take grand issue with his transfer of blame. He''s a grown man, not a toddler...just because you''re not paying attention to him doesn''t mean he has permission to go color on the walls. Life is full of ups and downs, it can''t all be rosy. You''re sorting out something, but as your partner, when you''re down that''s his time to step up and take control--it''s his responsibility to be there for you, not galavanting on skype with some chick across the world. It doesn''t equate. It''s not a checks and balance system, marriage doesn''t work that way. If you''re operating at 50%...he''s supposed to be 150% on. Period. No excuses. Oh, and let us not forget...he''s to frustrated to support you...but when it comes to her, well, he has all the time and comfort in world. Again, it''s disgusting.

I always wanted to say that I read your initial post to my husband. He''s a pretty reasonable guy, and I love "fresh eyes" ...

I want to say that I commiserate with you, my heart goes out to you...but girl, you made this bed long, long ago. From jump street your husband has had "issues" when it came to this woman, and you''ve always managed to allow him to get away with being vague, offering half-truthes and skating around the bigger issue. This isn''t isolated, it''s been ongoing. You laid a foundation that cultured this situation, and if you''re honest with yourself, you already know that. Over and over again you had the in-you-face red flags, and you just accepted his explanations and carried on...and he never had a ounce of repercussions for anything he did. You yourself said "this was fine" and "that was fine"...and it naturally escalated. And now, you''re tried of the sneaky behavior...but you''re also changing the rules and the game halfway through. I, in absolutely no way, agree with his behavior, it''s unconscionable, but it was all wrong from the start...and now you''re facing everything all at once, as opposed to taking on one hiccup at a time.

Issues like this can''t be tackled by "hoping" and "wishing" they''d go away. You need to find your voice...and this probably should have been done long ago. I''d run, not walk, into therapy. And, you''re probably not going to always like what you hear. But jeez...if you want it to work, it''s time to start digging your way out. This is such a mess...and I''m so sorry.