what the difference between fancy yellow and yellow

[Rockdiamond]

We can also say that setting a colorless stone in yellow gold prongs or bezel will make the stone look yellower as well. The way any diamond looks when set is ultimately most important if it''s been purchsed to wear.

I agree- consumers can be misled by places that misrepresent what they are selling.
For example- if someone is shopping for a natural yellow diamond ring, and they compare a ring that has been "certified" by EGL, a Fancy Yellow can cost about the same as a seller who has a diamond graded W-X by GIA.
EGL does grade the diamond in the ring- thereby further extending the possiblitly of misgrades.
If the person buying that EGL "Fancy Yellow" is actually looking for a diamond of the particular hue that an actual Fancy Yellow- as graded by GIA- they''re going to be sorely disspointed.
That is a problem, for sure.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Date: 4/16/2009 3:57:23 PM
Author: Rockdiamond

Date: 4/16/2009 3:49:29 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 4/16/2009 1:08:18 PM
Author: Rockdiamond

Date: 4/16/2009 10:38:10 AM
Author: denverappraiser
Think of it this way. The Z/Fancy boundary is the point where you stop seeing it as a yellow tint to a colorless stone and start seeing it as a yellow stone.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

Although I usually agree with Neil, I could not disagree more strongly with that statement.
The stone in the photo was graded ''Y-Z'' Natural Light Yellow by GIA.

The ''boundary'' between Y-Z and Fancy Light Yellow is completely one of nomenclature- having nothing to do with the actual difference between ''Fancy Colored'' and colorless diamonds. No one who knows what a diamond looks like could confuse the stone I posted with a colorless stone, or an ''off color stone''

Can you please post a focused face up shot and a focused profile shot against white background?
The stone in question has already been set into a ring. I''ve posted a photo of the ring.

It could , however, easily be confused with a ''Fancy Yellow''- which is why so may dealers send such stones to EGL who WILL grade them ''Fancy Yellow''

Why? GIA doesnt grade them fancy?
Why doesn''t GIA call a ''D'' color white? As I''ve said the names of the grades - especially the lack of the word ''fancy'' does not accurately portray stones in the U-V, W-X, and Y-Z ranges.

We''ve found that if you properly identify the lower GIA grades, people can and will embrace the lovely colors.

Generally speaking an M will be a stone more like Neil described- A colorless stone with a tint.
But there are cases of M color diamonds that have a far more apparent tint than the lovely diamond Kelli posted.


Thanks for the mention Asscherhalo_lover

To answer the question of the OP- Please make sure yo''re looking at diamonds graded by GIA and there''ll be no doubt.

To Diagem- Now I understand what you meant by "profile" shot.
IN the post quoted here I accidentally attached the incorrect photo- showing a ring from the side. I could not figure out how to delete the photo.
The ring in that photo has a diamond that is what I would call a "cape" diamond.
EGL called it L, I graded the diamond O-P color.
The photo is the same diamond straight on.
The diamond is faint yellow.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 4/16/2009 1:08:18 PM
Author: Rockdiamond

Date: 4/16/2009 10:38:10 AM
Author: denverappraiser
Think of it this way. The Z/Fancy boundary is the point where you stop seeing it as a yellow tint to a colorless stone and start seeing it as a yellow stone.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

Although I usually agree with Neil, I could not disagree more strongly with that statement.
The stone in the photo was graded ''Y-Z'' Natural Light Yellow by GIA.

The ''boundary'' between Y-Z and Fancy Light Yellow is completely one of nomenclature- having nothing to do with the actual difference between ''Fancy Colored'' and colorless diamonds. No one who knows what a diamond looks like could confuse the stone I posted with a colorless stone, or an ''off color stone''
It could , however, easily be confused with a ''Fancy Yellow''- which is why so may dealers send such stones to EGL who WILL grade them ''Fancy Yellow''

We''ve found that if you properly identify the lower GIA grades, people can and will embrace the lovely colors.

Generally speaking an M will be a stone more like Neil described- A colorless stone with a tint.
But there are cases of M color diamonds that have a far more apparent tint than the lovely diamond Kelli posted.


Thanks for the mention Asscherhalo_lover

To answer the question of the OP- Please make sure yo''re looking at diamonds graded by GIA and there''ll be no doubt.

Neil I must agree with David - I rarely do and even more rarely do I disagree with you.

The problem is that we have been taught to grade diamonds through the side (because it is easier - not because it is right). It was a mistake made a long time ago, and it should be recognized as such.

The image shows how these 3 cuts will look from the side and face up - they all have the exact same spectral absorption.
The ray paths show why the face up is different.
Note the color diff in the corners of the emerald cut.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Oh Neil, as an aside GIA wrote an excellent G&G artilce on fancy yellows about 3-5 years ago. In it they mention that from about O-P (?) it is possible to cut and get Fancy grades face up.
Sergey and Yuri have developed a rare and vauable version of DiamCalc just for cutters of fancy coloured diamonds and I think it is possible to take M rough and make fancy graded stones.

 

[diagem]

Date: 4/17/2009 7:00:23 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
HI Diagem,
Thanks for your honesty. Yes, I am very passionate about what we do. Terms like ''tricks'' push a button- as we are very careful to be as transparent as possible when working with diamonds. Sorry if I misunderstood your intent.

I am here to discuss- maybe we can find some middle ground where so we can talk. I am very interested in your views..

My point is that finding the rough to cut stones like the 2.97, or finding the actual polished stones is not all that easy.
Our business is buying and selling of polished diamonds.
But I can say for sure that the cutters we deal with- that specialize in the darker stones- capes and fancy colors- have pretty much stopped cutting because for the last 12-18 months it''s been impossible to buy the rough at a price that makes sense.

I know and understand what you are saying as it was not an issue of colored material alone but was an issue across the board of qualities....

Yes, we still see well cut light yellows that broadcast the color well. But we generally have to look through a lot of badly cut stones that don''t perform well to find the good ones.
The prices of these stones is still a lot less than what Diagem thinks of as Fancy Colors.

Nothing to do with prices...., these are simply not "fancy" colored Diamonds.

A lot of people in the industry agree with Diagem, and feel these stones have little value.
On the contrary..., most industry players that deal with colored Diamonds agree with you as it is a common interest!
Again..., nothing to with ''little value''! These stones are simply not "fancy" colored and should not be marketed as rare "fancy" nor "Canary" Diamonds.
I disagree. I''m also happy to be in the minority.
I will make every effort to not get personal Diagem- but my likes and dislikes do enter into this discussion to the extent that I''ve really had a lot of personal experience, which certainly enters into my viewpoint.
I buy light yellow - or cape stones, as you call them, because I really love the way they look.

I usually like most Diamonds (and never called any Diamond ugly or a dog yet

)..., color doesnt bother my personal taste buds as I am a freak of appearances and looks (a combination of correct facet arrangements and placement to compliment the/any material the Diamond possesses). And I genuinely believe that a regular colorless type of cut would compliment the majority of cape stones much better than the special cuts (note, i didnt use the word tricky

) used to darken the face-up appearance so it would be easier to connect to the ''rare fancy colored'' family. Most of these special cuts have nothing to do with anything except attempting to make the ''face-up'' appear evenly colored and to be identified as polished!!

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 4/18/2009 2:21:55 AM
Author: DiaGem
Most of these special cuts have nothing to do with anything except attempting to make the ''face-up'' appear evenly colored and to be identified as polished!!

yep
long light paths eat light return for breakfast.
If you going to kill a diamonds light return to get color then it has no advantage over say sapphire.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 4/18/2009 2:27:14 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 4/18/2009 2:21:55 AM
Author: DiaGem
Most of these special cuts have nothing to do with anything except attempting to make the ''face-up'' appear evenly colored and to be identified as polished!!

yep
long light paths eat light return for breakfast.
If you going to kill a diamonds light return to get color then it has no advantage over say sapphire.

I am afraid I disagree.
If there is a hungry market for light pink diamonds and the colour is even and uniform across the stone I would have a radiant or cushion over a RBC any day.

But 3 years ago I would have gone for the round, so if I can change my mind, I guess there is
hope still for Storm and DiaGem.

 

[diagem]

Date: 4/18/2009 2:38:40 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 4/18/2009 2:27:14 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 4/18/2009 2:21:55 AM
Author: DiaGem
Most of these special cuts have nothing to do with anything except attempting to make the 'face-up' appear evenly colored and to be identified as polished!!

yep
long light paths eat light return for breakfast.
If you going to kill a diamonds light return to get color then it has no advantage over say sapphire.

I am afraid I disagree.
If there is a hungry market for light pink diamonds and the colour is even and uniform across the stone I would have a radiant or cushion over a RBC any day.

But 3 years ago I would have gone for the round, so if I can change my mind, I guess there is
hope still for Storm and DiaGem.

Hi Garry..., you talking about Fancy light pink or without the 'Fancy' word?

 

[bonja]

thank you all