What is it with this American thing of milking?

[TravelingGal]

OK, A) I know it''s really not just an American thing and B) it''s about money, but here it is anyway....

I''m currently on a reading rampage on my Kindle, but this applies to other areas than just books. I''m talking about when something is a SERIES - TV, lit or otherwise.

I''m really starting to hate series that just milk it for everything it''s worth, with no real character development and stupid, inane, worthless plots just to keep the viewer spending/watching/reading, whatever. It''s why I gave up watching TV years ago and now I''m seeing it with books.

I love a good series. I love that you can get to know characters and have a familiar sense of place. What I am really getting annoyed with is series that are 15 books long (over the course of 15 years!) with nothing really going on!

I read Sookie Stackhouse 1-9 and it was tough, but I wanted to see it through. There are still more books but I doubt they will be good. I''m on the Stephanie plum series and that''s like 19 books, and I''m on book eight. I''m filing for divorce after book 8...done with it. Feel like I''ve being strung along.

For some reason, the British stuff I''ve doesn''t seem to drag things out, I''ve noticed. Life on Mars was two seasons/16 episodes and they knew when to call it quits. Harry Potter - a cash cow was, what, 7 books (I''ve never read it and it''s not in Kindle format, damn it!) I''m sure there are examples when they do drag things out, but it seems to me no one does it better than us Yanks.

A good series should leave you wanting more. Characters should grow and evolved and story lines should be interesting. I know it''s not exactly intellectual, but I loved Sex and the City because I thought it was for the most part, fresh, and they called it quits and left us wanting more (hence the probably 12 movies that will continue to come out.)

So, anyone can recommend a good series where every book/episode actually MOVES things along and it has an ending that isn''t 15 years in the making?

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Lost? It''s supposed to end this season - and considering how complicated that show is, 6 seasons ain''t bad.

Um, not happy that they''re milking the Harry Potter movie phenom - aren''t they doing the 7th book/last movie in two parts?!

 

[Mrs Mitchell]

Did you enjoy Life on Mars? It''s my all time favourite tv show. I think the American version was different to the original, though. Well worth tracking down the UK series if you can.

There was some amount of milking, though. I have a copy of DS Hunt''s Guide to Modern Policing...

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 1/4/2010 6:11:07 PM
Author: Mrs Mitchell
Did you enjoy Life on Mars? It''s my all time favourite tv show. I think the American version was different to the original, though. Well worth tracking down the UK series if you can.

There was some amount of milking, though. I have a copy of DS Hunt''s Guide to Modern Policing...

Mrs Mitchell, I never watched the American version, and no way am I going to start. I hadn''t watched TV in years and TGuy got a multi zone player so we were able to watch the UK Life on Mars. I was blown away by it...LOVED it. At first I told TGuy I wasn''t interested in watching it, and he said it was only 16 episodes. I told him, OK, I can commit to that. It was my idea of a perfect series.

The American version if it''s caught on (I don''t know anything about it) will go on for 8 seasons and take the joy out of the show.

BEG, I''ve heard lost is good, but 6 seasons is a bit long for me.

I think I might have liked 24...the first season wraps up all the loose ends, right? Hm.

Twilight is only 4 books, but I couldn''t get past the awful writing and gave up after the first book.

 

[fieryred33143]

I am not into Twilight at all for the same reason. If you don''t have the time to invest in LOST then don''t because it will suck you in. We did a marathon of Season 1 and then spent the next 8 weekends watching every episode. We are going to get caught up on Season 5 before the final season begins on Feb. 2nd.

If you do have the time though, I think LOST is great. There are a lot of loose ends, mostly because there are way to many storylines for the writers to keep up with but it is really interesting.

I have no other suggestions because I''m into "stupid" shows like Friends and Everybody Loves Raymond

. It''s my escape from the world of numbers.

 

[monarch64]

Capitalism, yo. That was the great thing about Seinfeld calling it quits while they were still ''ahead.''

 

[Pandora II]

DH and I were given the complete set of Cold Feet DVDs a few years ago.

There are 5 series (32 episodes total) and we watched the whole load in about 3 weeks and were really sad when it ended.

Definitely recommend it - it won over 20 major awards and has some great actors.

 

[luv2sparkle]

Ever seen Rick Warrens, ''The Purpose Driven Life''? I think there are 47 spin off books. Drives me nuts!

 

[gardengloves]

We got hooked on Season I and Season II of Sons of Anarchy. They really wrap up a plot line, so we liked it.

Also Big Love, can''t wait for the new season.

24 - we watched marathon weekend long episodes of the first few seasons on DVD until they all started to repeat so lost interest.

And my favorite, Battlestar Galactica. Caprica is starting in January - from the Cylons point of view.

Years ago there was an amazing British vampire series... Ultra Violet, secret government spys to track vampires messing around with Ebola in London- it was great and had an ardent fan club, but was never brought back.

but your right Traveling Gal, some series go on and on with no character development and endlessly repeating plot lines, you spend a lot of time, wait for the big wrap up and there is no wrap up.

 

[somethingshiny]

I get so done with series within a couple seasons (Lost) unless they''ve got really good characters (House).

BEG~ HP NEEDS at least a 2 part final. They screwed up the 6th entry so badly that you don''t have all the info needed for the 7th. I don''t think that''s milking, I think it was rushed to get it out before they realized what was required for the series to continue.

 

[Selkie]

I blame it on the English!

Charles Dickens was the ultimate "milker" when it came to serialization. The reason so many of his novels are so LONG is because they were first printed chapter by chapter in magazines, and the longer he dragged them out, the more he got paid! I like Dickens, but I doubt he''d get away with those shenanigans if he were writing today. Same with many other 19th century novelists. So, yeah, capitalism. And Dickens.

 

[Selkie]

I do love book series, but I tend to prefer ones that have character growth and a definite narrative arc. For example, Harry Potter is 7 books because there''s one for each of his years at Hogwarts, for each stage of his battle with Voldemort. The Little House books follow Laura from childhood through early adulthood. On the other hand, I don''t tend to like serial novels about detectives where the main character doesn''t really change or grow, but instead solves one mystery after another. They blur together for me. I am reading the Sookie Stackhouse books too, and while I really like the first four or so, I''ve gotten a bit bogged down.

 

[ksinger]

For a TV series, Battlestar Galactica is IT. Four seasons, strongly drawn characters, incredible acting, even greater writing, more twists and turns than a mountain road, difficult questions handled with subtlety, questions about religion, what it means to be human, to hope, to love. The best drama I''ve ever watched, with a satisfying ending that leaves just enough unanswered to keep you chewing on it and thinking it through. It is not scifi, it is serious serious drama.

NOT for the faint of heart though. Essentially a story of hope, but very very grim and ''reality'' (in the REAL sense of the word, not reality TV sense) . Hard to watch at times. But none of the episodes is fluff and they all move the story along.

 

[Iowa Lizzy]

Have you ever seen Six Feet Under? That was a series I really liked on HBO.

As for the Stephanie Plum series, yes they are totally redundant, but I think it''s worse if you read them one after the other after the other. I finished the 15th one and was kinda bummed. I think having some time between the 15th & 16th one will help. I read them all over a couple months this summer. I also just thinks it''s weird that her hamster has got to be really, really old by now.

 

[lyra]

Firefly? One season and a feature movie. It was great.

 

[gardengloves]

Date: 1/4/2010 8:23:39 PM
Author: Travel Goddess
Have you ever seen Six Feet Under? That was a series I really liked on HBO.

Yup, Six Feet Under was great. How about HBO''s ROME?

AE channel''s Horatio Hornblower Series based on the CS Forester books became an epic weekend after weekend marathon of TOTAL IMMERSION. We''d rush home to pop in a dvd, fire up the popcorn, lock the door and take the phone off the hook.

 

[movie zombie]

Galatica [good character and plot development]
Sopranos [director decided it was "time"
6 Feet Under [best ending]
Lost [takes a while to get into it but when you do....]
Deadwood [i still haven''t forgiven the powers that be for pulling the plug on this one before it had run its course].

currently into Mad Men.....

netflix makes it all so easy!

mz

 

[TravelingGal]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone! Going to look into them.

We own six feet under...TGuy bought it when it was an Amazon deal of the day. I loved season one. Then it just got weird sometime in season 2 or 3, I think. So I gave up watching. I guess at some point since we have it, I'll try watching. I heard the later seasons made up for the annoying middle ones, and also heard the ending was good as some of you said.

Re: Galactica...I think I watched it when I was a kid...bet it would probably be much different for me now. I'm sure I didn't get any of it back then.

ETA, Looked it up...there's a new series on Galactica? Boy, I haven't turned on a TV in so long, I have no idea what's even out. I'm turning into my mother...a pop culture moron!!

 

[LGK]

I really need to watch the battlestar galactica series. my sister swears by them and the few I've seen I've enjoyed

I would strongly recommend *against* the Anita Blake series by Laurell K. Hamilton. The first few are entertaining fluff but around about Obsidian Butterfly you start wishing for brain bleach. Unsexiest sex scenes EVER. And they just get worse, so they're like 99% overly-thoroughly-described-icky-sex and 1% plot. Sigh. I kept trying to read the new ones and wishing I hadn't, until I finally swore off them. (Seriously not kidding about the icky sex. I'm all for a good sex scene in a good novel but LKH's are just... double ugh.)

Caitlin R. Kiernan has a loose series of books that's pretty fabulous. They can all be read independantly but they all relate, some more than others- Silk and Murder of Angels probably being a good two to start with. And her short story compilations are just... amazing.

 

[gardengloves]

Date: 1/4/2010 10:20:04 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Thanks for the suggestions everyone! Going to look into them.

We own six feet under...TGuy bought it when it was an Amazon deal of the day. I loved season one. Then it just got weird sometime in season 2 or 3, I think. So I gave up watching. I guess at some point since we have it, I''ll try watching. I heard the later seasons made up for the annoying middle ones, and also heard the ending was good as some of you said.

Re: Galactica...I think I watched it when I was a kid...bet it would probably be much different for me now. I''m sure I didn''t get any of it back then.


ETA, Looked it up...there''s a new series on Galactica? Boy, I haven''t turned on a TV in so long, I have no idea what''s even out. I''m turning into my mother...a pop culture moron!!

Yes, it''s a new series. When I first got into it and tried to get DH into it, I mistakenly ordered the old one, DH thought I was nuts, but now he is as addicted as me. Not sure it ever made it into pop culture., but it does have a core of followers.. When it was on television they ran it late in the evening, way out of prime time.

 

[VRBeauty]

With mystery book series, it seems like many authors will have one or two books that are "on" or satisfying, followed by one in which the author seems to be "skating," followed by another "on" book etc -- so the secret might be to figure out each author''s sequence and where it starts!

Last year (

) I was at a meet the author event featuring Marcia Muller, author of the long-running Sharon McCone series, and her husband. One woman in the audience mentioned that she had not read any of the Sharon McCone books, and asked if she should start in beginning and read them sequentially. The answer was basically "goodness, no. Start with book XXX -- I was still finding Sharon''s voice in the earlier books." If only authors would post a list of their "recommended" and "don''t bother" books so we could focus on the good stuff!

 

[yssie]

It's an older series - anyone ever seen yes minister/yes prime minister? Radio, then TV, then books - and a whole bunch of interviews besides.


Love them, though, and I only wish they'd had more to milk

ETA: the last harry potter as two movies, huh

 

[arjunajane]

Tgal, I know you said books -
but as far as TV series,
"The Wire" - After the sopranos, best.show.ever. Great actors, great character development and awesome writing. 5 seasons, all with a different "theme" and new characters that you really come to appreciate.
Definitely left wanting more!

If you'd still prefer to stick with books, George Pelecanos dis alot of the writing for The Wire and imo has great novels.
They are not exactly a series but could be read as such as are pretty much all based in and around Baltimore.

I also agree with whoever mentioned "Sons of Anarchy" - don't get turned off that it's a series about bikies, it's very well done. I believe there is only 3 seasons of that one..or is it only 2..?


ETA: MZ, completely agree about Deadwood, it had so much more potential!

 

[softly softly]

I second the ''Cold Feet'' recommendation - loved that show. Another obscure Australian show I thought was good (trust me there aren''t too many of those) was ''Love my Way'', although the third and final series perhaps could come be considered to be milking it.

 

[LilyKat]

Oh, we drag stuff out in Britain too, big time. Ever heard of Big Brother?

I think it''s just one of those things - if there''s money to be made, it''s human nature to milk it for all it''s worth. It takes a strong character to end something for the sake of principles and art when it could still be profitable.

 

[curlygirl]

Date: 1/5/2010 1:29:12 AM
Author: arjunajane
Tgal, I know you said books -
but as far as TV series,
''The Wire'' - After the sopranos, best.show.ever. Great actors, great character development and awesome writing. 5 seasons, all with a different ''theme'' and new characters that you really come to appreciate.
Definitely left wanting more!

If you''d still prefer to stick with books, George Pelecanos dis alot of the writing for The Wire and imo has great novels.
They are not exactly a series but could be read as such as are pretty much all based in and around Baltimore.

I also agree with whoever mentioned ''Sons of Anarchy'' - don''t get turned off that it''s a series about bikies, it''s very well done. I believe there is only 3 seasons of that one..or is it only 2..?


ETA: MZ, completely agree about Deadwood, it had so much more potential!

Big ditto to this! The Wire was an amazing series--incredibly well written and acted and heartbreaking when it came to an end after 5 seasons. It will definitely hold your attention.

Also loved Oz but it''s not for everyone. We watch Mad Men and Breaking Bad as well, highly recommend both.

 

[radiantquest]

Everything gets milked to death. To be honest it seems like laziness to me. Instead of being creative and coming up with something new they just keep suckling and the teet until everyone is so tired of it the "story" is exhausted.

It happens everywhere. I think the place that is the worst is the media. I am so stinking tired of hearing about this Twilight. I can understand that it is good. Say it and be done. I may have even been interested in seeing it if everywhere I look someone that claims to be in the know is reporting about it. Find something else. There is so much going on that we need not spend 6 months talking about the same thing.

 

[Liane]

x3 on The Wire. best. show. ever. And it was conceived with a five-season arc, so it ended on time with a strong finish.

I don''t really get the Battlestar Galactica love. I saw it as really shallow and the finale was completely

(although it did vindicate my longstanding dislike of the series, so I guess that''s a silver lining, sort of).

As for why this happens -- well, yeah, it''s the money. It takes a lot of fortitude for a writer to say "no" to publishers or producers who press for more installments in a series that''s selling well. While there are a few authors who seem to go along with it cynically (and here I''m thinking of authors like Tom Clancy or James Patterson who slap their names on books they don''t even write), I think for the most part, authors do put in a good-faith effort to do the best they can with an increasingly tired franchise. It''s hard to know where the line is between giving fans more of what they want and have come to expect vs. breaking off in new directions that might alienate people who just want more of their old, familiar favorites.

Stephanie Plum''s hamster is a great example. Should the hamster be dead by now? Uh, yeah. Will it die? I wouldn''t bet on it. The readers who are still invested in the series are the ones who don''t really want anything to change. Not even the death of a Methuselah hamster who''s lasted eight rodent lifetimes by now. So Janet Evanovich can''t kill the hamster without getting some reader backlash (which isn''t to say she shouldn''t do it, just that I can see why she wouldn''t).

People vote with their dollars. As long as they keep voting that way, I can''t blame publishers or producers for trying to give them what they want. It''s a competitive marketplace, and they need those bestsellers to finance the lesser-known, more experimental projects that might not recoup their costs.

Do I love it? No. I wish people would end things on a high note. But obviously I''m not in the majority, so oh well.

 

[decodelighted]

I''m not *sure* about Lost ... the website Jezebel called it an "abusive boyfriend you can''t shake". It doesn''t really hold my interest but DH still loves it & can''t wait for the big ending etc etc. I enjoyed "Alias" - but how much was the fashions & how much was the narrative thread, can''t say. "Mad Men" is awesome if you haven''t started that yet. And if you like comedy at all "30 Rock"!

 

[TravelingGal]

OK, I''ll have to check out the wire...I find PS folks'' tastes to be pretty spot on and like to get my recs off you guys, thanks!

Re: Stephanie plum and hamster...the hamster should die. Then maybe Stephanie can grow as a character. I really liked book 1. And probably three books after that. But I''m disgusted that someone can write THAT many books without any sort of development. There are also too many ditzy characters. Everyone is a caricature - too 2D for me.