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What if you didn''t like the proposal or the ring?

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squeaksluv

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
203
Hi everyone I''m actually posting about a friend of mine, trying to gain some insight as to what I can say to her to make her feel better!

My friend Lesley has been dating this Italian guy for close to 4 years now. He lives in Italy but because of his job he is constantly traveling here to the states. She met him through work. They even bought a home together here in the DC area so they''d be together when he''s in town (she had roommates before and he''d always stay in hotels). She had been wanting to get married for sometime now and they had had numerous discussions about it. She knew that in Europe they don''t typically engage in the whole romantic proposal idea or even a diamond ring as an engagement ring although she did tell him that this is what she really wants. She said they had many discussions about this.

Well, he''s been in town for the last two weeks for business and last night they go out to dinner in Georgetown to a crowded bar type restaurant (not a romantic place in the least). She said over dinner they got into a conversation about the house and some things that needed to be done (she lives there all of the time and he lives there when he''s in town which is about once every few months). She said they had been chatting about the backyard when he says that if they plan on selling the house it really should be landscaped. She was confused about why on earth would they sell it if they just bought it? He then proceeds to say since they should get married he''d think it would be best for her to live in Italy with him and then goes on to say how about they get married in September which is when his older brother will be back in Italy from somewhere. Lesley of course is througly confused at this point and asked him is he proposing to her. He says, and I quote from her, "I guess so, oh here is a ring I know you Americans feel you need to have". He hands her a baggie (no kidding, a plastic sandwich baggie, she even showed it to me) and wrapped up inside a tissue is a yellow gold ring with a pearl. She said she didn''t know whether to cry or to laugh but took the ring, gave him a kiss and then excused herself to go to the bathroom to compose herself! She said when she went back to her table he continued the topic as to the house and then they went home. She called me this morning and we met for drinks tonight.

The ring is okay, not something that I think is even tasteful and she thinks it''s hideous, she says it''s something you''d find in your grandmothers jewelry box of costume jewelry. It''s yellow gold, which she does not like, with a mishapen gaudy looking pearl smack in the center, like it had been glued there. Before I even asked she said she had spoken to him many times about ''proposals'' and engagement rings, especially after her friends all got engaged. When I got engaged to my exFI they were at the restaurant with all my other friends and family as a surprise afterwards. I remember talking to them about how on top of the world I was and him commenting on what a romantic proposal it was and what a beautiful ring I was given. He even turned to Lesley and asked her (I''m witness to this!) if this is what she had in mind (she said yes but she said she didn''t expect such a large diamond!). She said that night, when they were driving home, they talked about her likes & dislikes as to a ring and she said she specifically told him she did not like yellow gold. She remembers him asking her if she liked diamonds and she joked "what girl doesn''t!".

I don''t want ya''ll to think she''s ungrateful because she really is happy to know that they''ll be getting married finally but she is less than excited about the way he proposed (or lack thereof) and the ring. I know based upon our talks in the past this is something she stressed to him time & time again about how important it is to her and how much it would mean to her. She''s really a wonderful person and he is a sweetie so I was really surprised when she called me and told me the news. He goes back to Italy tomorrow for another two months and she is upset but not sure if she should say anything....

I have to say that for once even I am speechless! When I told ''J'' about it he looked surprised as well at the whole proposal and ring and asked if she had talked about what she expected and wanted. I said yes and he shrugged and then asked what was for dinner...MEN!!!

We''re meeting them tomorrow for breakfast and I''m not sure if I should even say congratulations because would he even know what I was talking about? She said that when they got home she said she was going to call her parents and tell them the news he looked at her and asked what news was that?!
 

bee*

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 14, 2006
Messages
12,170
well I think firstly she should sit down with him again and have a proper chat about the ins and outs of things if they do get married-does she want to move to Italy? If she doesnt want to move there, would he move to her permanently. As far as the ring thing goes, I live in Europe and have friends in most countries in Europe, and we are just as into the nice ring and romantic proposal over here as you guys are in the US. I have a feeling that it could be just that he''s not into the nice ring or romantic proposal. I dont think that she should call the parents etc until things are sorted out
 

Larissa

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 20, 2006
Messages
276
Italians really don't do the diamond ring, engagement thing at all! It is my understanding that it is usually a decision agreed on by the couple and often there is no ring exchanged at all.

Getting married to a forgeiner is all about combining cultures and expectations. I married a Brit, a country where very few people seem to wear diamond rings and my .47 center is considered to be quite large. While British isn't nearly as far away from American as Italian is, we did have several things to work out as far as expectations for engagement and marriage.

I suggest that they sit down and each explain what ideas they have and compromise. Unless she's dating a very Americanized Italian it is likely that she'll never get the romantic surprise proposal that you seem to have received. Different cultures have such different expectations and while she may think that he got it, it's obvivious that he still doesn't.

Since they already share a house, and therefore, to some extent, finances, maybe she could be very specific in I'd like a new ring, let's agree on a budget for it, let's pick it together, and then maybe you could book dinner at X or Y or Z restruant and give it to me there.
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
9,144
Date: 2/10/2007 5:24:40 AM
Author: Larissa

Since they already share a house, and therefore, to some extent, finances, maybe she could be very specific in I''d like a new ring, let''s agree on a budget for it, let''s pick it together, and then maybe you could book dinner at X or Y or Z restruant and give it to me there.
Larissa''s assessment is spot-on, and I''d echo her suggestion above.
 

tangoecho

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 8, 2007
Messages
31
Well as a woman who never really got a proposal - somewhere along the line it was "when we get married" to one day just talking about the ring and deciding to get it - no actual "will you marry me" passed his lips, I have sometimes wistfully wished for a romantic proposal. But that is not my husband - he is not of the emotional flowery sentimental type but he is the finest most loyal person I have ever known. And in the long run, that counts a million times more than an overly romantic proposal and a lacking marriage.

I think Larissa is onto something. But even with the new ring and dinner at a romantic restaurant, the guy could fail badly at the proposal if he doesn''t word it correctly or such which will only leave the friend even feeling more bruised and upset. I think the friend should know her boyfriend well enough by now to know if it''s just not his way and even more importantly, will he make the effort because it''s what she wants? If he will sulk or be insulted, or only half heartedly propose again what is gained? So unless she truly really believes that the boyfriend will come through in a way that leaves her happy, she might want to consider skipping another proposal and just get the updated ring. Go to a nice dinner and celebrate the engagement in a romantic way and don''t ask for or expect another proposal. Tell the story about being proposed to at a bar with a ring presented in a baggie. That right there has some charm and won''t be heard every day when sitting around telling proposal stories.

Heck, the friend should arrange dinner on the day he returns to the U.S. and promise him some super sexy lingerie and an exotic act or two in the bedroom as pay off if and ONLY if, her boyfriend gives her the romantic and loving proposal that she wants. I expect that might be the better motivator to him.
 

Shay37

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 1, 2004
Messages
3,343
And I quote "So you want to get married or what?" (no ring) And my DH is American Italian. Enough said?

shay
 

squeaksluv

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
203
You guys are fantastic, thank you ever so much!

Larissa, what you suggest is excellent, maybe this way they''ll be able to compromise in that she''ll get the ''ring'' she wants and he''ll be happy knowing he gave her what she really wants. I do know he isn''t very Americanized and was quite surprised when she first brought up what she''d like as a ring/proposal. He said that it isn''t done really in Italy that couples just decide to get married and if there is a ring at all, rarely is it a diamond or something similar. I think she was under the impression that he would make an effort in her case although it doesn''t look like he really understood just how much it meant to her.

tangoecho, I know she''ll most likely have to word things very careful so that she does''t hurt or insult him. I do know he loves her very very much and would probably be upset to know how bothered she is by this. I think your suggestion would be the right way too! Combining with what Larissa said she should have that talk wearing La Perla after an exotic meal!! I''m sure things would go very well that way!!!


shay37 I had to laugh out loud at your response, is that how your dh proposed? I think that is fantastic and at least he phrased it as a question!!


We met them for breakfast this morning and had a great time as usual. He did bring up ''after they''re married'' a few times but both J and I chose not to ask any questions regarding that. I figure I''ll get all the details from Lesley when he leaves. She''s coming over for dinner tomorrow night so maybe by then something will have been resolved as he is actually leaving tomorrow evening now instead of tonight.

Thanks again you guys!!!!!
 

Shay37

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 1, 2004
Messages
3,343
Date: 2/10/2007 3:32:48 PM
Author: squeaksluv
You guys are fantastic, thank you ever so much!

Larissa, what you suggest is excellent, maybe this way they''ll be able to compromise in that she''ll get the ''ring'' she wants and he''ll be happy knowing he gave her what she really wants. I do know he isn''t very Americanized and was quite surprised when she first brought up what she''d like as a ring/proposal. He said that it isn''t done really in Italy that couples just decide to get married and if there is a ring at all, rarely is it a diamond or something similar. I think she was under the impression that he would make an effort in her case although it doesn''t look like he really understood just how much it meant to her.

tangoecho, I know she''ll most likely have to word things very careful so that she does''t hurt or insult him. I do know he loves her very very much and would probably be upset to know how bothered she is by this. I think your suggestion would be the right way too! Combining with what Larissa said she should have that talk wearing La Perla after an exotic meal!! I''m sure things would go very well that way!!!


shay37 I had to laugh out loud at your response, is that how your dh proposed? I think that is fantastic and at least he phrased it as a question!!


We met them for breakfast this morning and had a great time as usual. He did bring up ''after they''re married'' a few times but both J and I chose not to ask any questions regarding that. I figure I''ll get all the details from Lesley when he leaves. She''s coming over for dinner tomorrow night so maybe by then something will have been resolved as he is actually leaving tomorrow evening now instead of tonight.

Thanks again you guys!!!!!
Yup. The funnier part is I said YES!!

shay
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
55,722
Along the lines of what Larissa said, I''d de-emphasize the proposal part since you can''t expect to write him a script and have him read it! But I see nothing wrong with her saying, thanks so much for the lovely ring, but I''d also like us to go together and pick out a diamond ring to commemorate our upcoming marriage as is the custom here in America. Actually, I think she should pre-pick out the ring and then take him with her so it is a pleasant easy experience for him!
 

firebirdgold

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
2,216
UGH!

Now I realized that things posted on a board like this can come off sounding different then they really are (partic when it's second hand).... But I really don't like the sound of this guy!

He sounds very... well.. He was telling her what they were going to do. That wasn't a freaking discussion! No 'would you like to live in Italy after we get married' or even 'would you like to get married'!!

A proposal implies a question, not a guy dictating what her life is going to be like.

" they should get married he'd think it would be best for her to live in Italy with him and then goes on to say how about they get married in September which is when his older brother will be back in Italy from somewhere."


HELLO?? NOT A PROPOSAL! He wasn't even asking her freaking opinion!!

Forget the whole thing where he ignores what she has said is important to her and hands her a piece of junk he probably got out of his grandmother's jewelry box or a thrift store, this guy has chauvenistic control freak written all over him! It'd be easy to write this off as a cultural difference, but Italian men are not usually that bad. (mainly because Italian women aren't exactly doormats
)

Basically, this is not just a dissapointing proposal and ring... this is a GIANT RED FLAG


Everyone sing it with me now:
RUN run RUN RUN run
 

Pandora II

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Messages
9,613
Big Red Flag from me too.

I lived in Italy till 2003 for 8 years and had 3 serious relationships (FI says I have to add "but all unfullfilling and hollow compare with now"
- stop reading over my shoulder grrrr) with Italian men.

It's true that e-rings are not as usual there, but it is becoming more common - we watched a lot of US movies! My ex's mother had a 3ct solitaire. He had a box with seven 1ct diamonds that his grandfather gave him to make a piece of jewellery in the future for his first wedding anniversary and he totally expected to have to buy an e-ring. He gave me a very pretty diamond & ruby half eternity as an "I'm serious" ring. This was also not some guy with mega $$$. Granted all 3 of my ex's came from very well respected families and it seemed more common amongst their friends and relations than amongst some of my work colleagues for example.

In any case, Italians are normally very good at the big romantic gesture and that was lacking there. I don't like the "I have decided bit" - I would also suggest she tries living there first - unless it's Milan or Rome and unless she speaks fluent Italian, she will find it hard work once the "isn't this pretty" wears off.

Serious talking needed. Italian girls are fairly bossy by the way and need to be - but I always found it odd how so many of them went nuts if they couldn't have the bag they wanted, or if BF/FI /DH looked at another girl, but totally turned a blind eye to their affairs. Very odd!

ETA - the ring may not always be the norm, but the actual proposal is very important in Italy.
 

WishfulThinking

Brilliant_Rock
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1,437
I''ve not posted on pricescope much, but as a long-time lurker I wanted to say something in response to this post.

First of all- I feel for your friend. It must be really hard to love someone and be disappointed by a proposal (or lack thereof...)in this way. Sort of an awkward situation to be in, really. I understand about culture differences, and perhaps he is not accustomed to the American engagement style, but he was obviously not clueless. Regardless of whether his particular upbringing dictates it, he was aware of what she wanted for her proposal and proceeded to completely ignore everything they had talked about. That bothers me simply because he wasn''t being sensitive to her needs and feelings. He may not understand or necessarily agree with the whole romantic proposal and ring fanfare, but it''s no excuse for not listening to her! Even what he said as he was giving her the ring about "here is the ring you Americans feel you need to have" sounds kind of condescending.


I must say, though, out of everything I read in the post what jumped out at me the most was what IndieJones noticed: he just sort of decided all the details of their marriage and future life together and is informing her of them casually over dinner? I''m unsure if this was just the way it was relayed through your re-telling of the story and perhaps as a result of reading it through text, but that sounds very controlling and unpleasant. It also sounds from your account as if your friend was surprised they would be moving to Italy in the first place- have they talked about this before?

I hope everything works out for your friend.
 

IrishAngel7982

Brilliant_Rock
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May 5, 2006
Messages
1,412
I'm sorry squeaks. I'm glad Indie brought up the glaring red flag so I wouldn't have to be the first one. =) This guy sounds like a WINNER. Have they even been in the same place for more than a short period of time? I'm always interested if ldr's that become permanent really last when the couple hasn't had a chance to build a solid foundation first. From your post, I don't like this guy either. Not one bit. I don't care if cultures are different...your friend told him numerous times (I gather from your post) about what she would like re: a ring and a somewhat thoughtful proposal. I totally agree that this guy is in essence controlling your friend by dictating where they will live and September is the time for them to get married because HIS brother will be around. It's not about the ring or lack of proposal...it's about this guy's character. Doesn't sound good to me.

ETA: fixed a spelling error. Oops!
 

upgrading mama

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 28, 2005
Messages
1,826
Date: 2/10/2007 5:00:32 PM
Author: IndieJones
UGH!

Now I realized that things posted on a board like this can come off sounding different then they really are (partic when it''s second hand).... But I really don''t like the sound of this guy!

He sounds very... well.. He was telling her what they were going to do. That wasn''t a freaking discussion! No ''would you like to live in Italy after we get married'' or even ''would you like to get married''!!

A proposal implies a question, not a guy dictating what her life is going to be like.

'' they should get married he''d think it would be best for her to live in Italy with him and then goes on to say how about they get married in September which is when his older brother will be back in Italy from somewhere.''


HELLO?? NOT A PROPOSAL! He wasn''t even asking her freaking opinion!!

Forget the whole thing where he ignores what she has said is important to her and hands her a piece of junk he probably got out of his grandmother''s jewelry box or a thrift store, this guy has chauvenistic control freak written all over him! It''d be easy to write this off as a cultural difference, but Italian men are not usually that bad. (mainly because Italian women aren''t exactly doormats
)

Basically, this is not just a dissapointing proposal and ring... this is a GIANT RED FLAG


Everyone sing it with me now:
RUN run RUN RUN run
I agree. seems totally uncaring towards her.
 

monarch64

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Aug 12, 2005
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17,781
I haven''t used this phrase for a long time, but: WHAT A TOOL.
 

Larissa

Shiny_Rock
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Jul 20, 2006
Messages
276
I''d be tempted to call him a few names as well. However, the Italian culture is totally and completely different from the American culture. From this little bit here we have no idea if he''s really a jerk or is simply reverting to his cultural norms.

He may believe that he already compromised by taking her out to a place and giving her a ring after he already believed a marriage decision had been made. This doesn''t necessarily make him a jerk who disregards her feelings.
 

tulip928

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 4, 2006
Messages
695
I agree with everything Indie said. He sounds very condescending - he lumps her in a group of "you Americans" (is this how you talk to someone you adore?), and then informs her she''s going to give up her life she as she knows it. RED FLAG! He is devaluing her as a person.
 

ladykemma

Ideal_Rock
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Jan 2, 2006
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2,194
Date: 2/11/2007 6:24:33 AM
Author: Larissa
I'd be tempted to call him a few names as well. However, the Italian culture is totally and completely different from the American culture. From this little bit here we have no idea if he's really a jerk or is simply reverting to his cultural norms.

He may believe that he already compromised by taking her out to a place and giving her a ring after he already believed a marriage decision had been made. This doesn't necessarily make him a jerk who disregards her feelings.
yes, and.... this proposal stuff is american television manufactured fantasy - not reality for most people in the world.

give me an honest discussion of marriage between two adults anytime!
 

poptart

Brilliant_Rock
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May 23, 2006
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1,899
I think that maybe he just didn''t understand exactly what was involved with proposing. Just because she thought she explained it well enough doesn''t mean that he actually got it. Since it was already understood that one day they were going to get engaged and married, he probably figured he didn''t HAVE to ask. Why would you ask a question when you already know the answer? Which completely makes sense to me because I have trouble understanding proposals when couples have had these huge discussions about the future and then the guy asks her if she wants to marry him... duh, of course! But that''s just me. And perhaps he thought the same thing. Clearly he didn''t understand how important it was to her or didn''t know exactly how to propose in a way that she liked. Cultures are VERY different, so I think the problem here is a lack of communication first, rather than a lack of his love for her... at least that''s what I hope!

*M*
 

KimberlyH

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
7,485
I don''t tihnk he sounds like a tool, he sounds like a man entrenched in his own culture. Neither one is right our better (how many people do you know who have gone into debt for the "perfect" ring? not so bright but very much the American way!) it''s just different. I don''t see this as being any different than when I woman is disappointed that her very practical SO doesn''t turn into Fabio when popping the question. And when those women post the concensus has always been: you can''t expect him to be any different than who he is.

I hope they can come to some sort of resolution that works for both of them. I wouldn''t want a "redo" proposal, but finding a ring that suites her is a brilliant plan.
 

zoebartlett

Super_Ideal_Rock
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12,450
Date: 2/11/2007 11:52:42 AM
Author: KimberlyH
I don''t tihnk he sounds like a tool, he sounds like a man entrenched in his own culture. Neither one is right our better (how many people do you know who have gone into debt for the ''perfect'' ring? not so bright but very much the American way!) it''s just different. I don''t see this as being any different than when I woman is disappointed that her very practical SO doesn''t turn into Fabio when popping the question. And when those women post the concensus has always been: you can''t expect him to be any different than who he is.

I hope they can come to some sort of resolution that works for both of them. I wouldn''t want a ''redo'' proposal, but finding a ring that suites her is a brilliant plan.
I agree Kimberly. Sure, it may be different than how many American women picture their ideal proposal, but I wouldn''t call him names for it. If it truly was a thoughtless gesture, I''d be upset but it sounds like this might just be a cultural thing.
 

firebirdgold

Ideal_Rock
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Nov 30, 2005
Messages
2,216
I really think some of the posters are missing some of the other posters'' point. This is NOT about a dissapointing proposal with a dissapointing ring. There are pser''s who had very dissapointing proposals and rings yet went on to have a good marriage. (although they apparently still want a nice ring or why else would they be here?
) Nor is this about a guy who doesn''t really love his girl. I''m sure he does.

And maybe the problem does lie in the cultural difference, but the cultural difference I see is with gender roles not with proposals and rings. He''s making all the decisions! He''s not treating her as his future equal partner, and he''s dismissive of her and her culture (you americans?? hello?).

So what if that''s a cultural difference? It''s not one I''d want to touch with a ten-foot pole! The differences between how the genders interact and how the different cultures treat infidelity can make it very tough for a marriage between an american woman and a french or italian guy work. (not so oddly the other way around works quite well
)

It can work, I know of a couple (italian man & american woman) who did an inter-continental ldr before getting married, and they''re very happy together. But I don''t know if he''s an exception or not, but I couldn''t imagine him acting in this way. I also can''t imagine her putting up with him being dismissive or controlling, or him assuming he can make the decisions about their future life.
 

KimberlyH

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
7,485
I hear what you''re saying Indie, but the OP indicated/implied that they have a great relationship otherwise and get along well. She didn''t post saying her friend is engaged to a controlling Italian jerk, what should she do? It says her friend is in love, happy to be getting married, the guy is "a sweetie" and she''s just not pleased with the actual proposal.

And whether or not some women understand it, there are many females who prefer to be the passive person in a relationship (I am not saying the OPs friend is, I haven''t the first clue about her personality). We see it here all the time with LIWs who have handed over control of their futures to their boyfriends by waiting indefinitely for him to pop the question. Is it right? Not for you or I, but it does work for a lot of women (and in turn men!).
 

squeaksluv

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
203
Hi everyone!

I totally understand where some of you are coming from and why you might think that he is a controlling jerk but honestly that is not the case. He''s is really a decent guy if a little clueless. I don''t think he meant to sound so controlling but it''s hard to imply the tone iof how things are said in words. He obviously adores my friend and I know they''ve discussed the whole marriage thing before so it was a given. She never said if it was decided they would live in Italy but maybe that is the only option seeing as his company is based out of there? Her job can pretty much translate anywhere and I know she''s talked in the past about transferring out of the country so maybe Italy would be a cinch. He really is a nice guy and would never think to tell her what she can and can not do.

Her and I had a long talk about everything and I gave her some of the suggestions that I heard here. She said that they had spoken briefly about his proposal ,or lack thereof, and from what she said I don''t think he meant for it to happen that way or so she implied. She said the ring was actually his great-grandmothers and has been passed down in the family (although I have a hard time seeing it as a family heirloom but who knows what is considered priceless to a family). He said he knew it wasn''t to her taste and that if she wanted to pick out a ring he would stand by it. I do wonder why everything seems so much ''better'' in hindsight - meaning he is now saying all the right things after the fact but maybe he really didn''t ''get it'' as poptart mentioned.

I don''t think he''s ever embraced the American culture as he only ever came here for business meetings and such. Since he''s been dating Lesley he''s gone out with her and her friends more often but I still think he is bewildered by us and how we can be at times. He has every bit of respect for us and how we live, I do know that, for he often comments on how he understands why so many people want to live the ''American Dream''. For instance he LOVES going grocery shopping because he is constantly amazed at how many choices we have. One time it took him over an hour to pick out a deoderant! It was so funny hearing Lesley describe how he examined each one in detail and kept asking about them, sometimes he''d even quote the commercials ''It''s strong enough for a man, but made for a woman...''!!!

She said he is coming back into town next month and that this time she''ll make sure she has a ring all picked out. I don''t think she''s expecting a ''redo'' on the proposal though.
 

tangoecho

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 8, 2007
Messages
31
It sounds like all has worked out really well. He probably just didn''t understand the importance his girlfriend put on the ring and proposal. And whether the pearl ring is ugly or not, he obviously thinks she is worthy of something that has been in his family for generations and is a very nice indication of his love for her.

I figure in 10 or 20 years (if not before then
), the bride will get tears in her eyes and all sentimental when recounting her beaus blunderous proposal in a bar with a promise ring in a plastic baggie.

Now she can get the ring she wants and go out to a nice romantic dinner with her boyfriend when he''s in town next and everything will be lovely.
 

kcoursolle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
10,589
Date: 2/12/2007 11:12:42 AM
Author: squeaksluv
Hi everyone!

I totally understand where some of you are coming from and why you might think that he is a controlling jerk but honestly that is not the case. He''s is really a decent guy if a little clueless. I don''t think he meant to sound so controlling but it''s hard to imply the tone iof how things are said in words. He obviously adores my friend and I know they''ve discussed the whole marriage thing before so it was a given. She never said if it was decided they would live in Italy but maybe that is the only option seeing as his company is based out of there? Her job can pretty much translate anywhere and I know she''s talked in the past about transferring out of the country so maybe Italy would be a cinch. He really is a nice guy and would never think to tell her what she can and can not do.

Her and I had a long talk about everything and I gave her some of the suggestions that I heard here. She said that they had spoken briefly about his proposal ,or lack thereof, and from what she said I don''t think he meant for it to happen that way or so she implied. She said the ring was actually his great-grandmothers and has been passed down in the family (although I have a hard time seeing it as a family heirloom but who knows what is considered priceless to a family). He said he knew it wasn''t to her taste and that if she wanted to pick out a ring he would stand by it. I do wonder why everything seems so much ''better'' in hindsight - meaning he is now saying all the right things after the fact but maybe he really didn''t ''get it'' as poptart mentioned.

I don''t think he''s ever embraced the American culture as he only ever came here for business meetings and such. Since he''s been dating Lesley he''s gone out with her and her friends more often but I still think he is bewildered by us and how we can be at times. He has every bit of respect for us and how we live, I do know that, for he often comments on how he understands why so many people want to live the ''American Dream''. For instance he LOVES going grocery shopping because he is constantly amazed at how many choices we have. One time it took him over an hour to pick out a deoderant! It was so funny hearing Lesley describe how he examined each one in detail and kept asking about them, sometimes he''d even quote the commercials ''It''s strong enough for a man, but made for a woman...''!!!

She said he is coming back into town next month and that this time she''ll make sure she has a ring all picked out. I don''t think she''s expecting a ''redo'' on the proposal though.
Well, I''m glad some progress has been made. Do you think your friend would be willing to contribute a little to the ring? Maybe they could set a budget and pick a ring together and it might ease the blow of the cost (culture wise) if she were to help with the setting or something. Also, so she doesn''t offend him maybe she could wear the pearl ring on her other hand or as a pendant or something.
 

WishfulThinking

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
1,437
In that case I certainly retract any of the more skeptical things I''d said earlier.

I''m glad to hear things worked out for the better!
Even if the ring wasn''t to her taste there was some sentimental value behind it for him, which turns the situation completely around. It''s also nice to hear he was understanding about her wishes for a ''real'' (tehee, pricescope
)ring that suits her tastes better.

=]
I like when things have happy endings...some guys just aren''t romantic!
 

Allisonfaye

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 18, 2004
Messages
1,455
Date: 2/10/2007 10:21:03 PM
Author: Sophie

Date: 2/10/2007 5:00:32 PM
Author: IndieJones
UGH!

Now I realized that things posted on a board like this can come off sounding different then they really are (partic when it''s second hand).... But I really don''t like the sound of this guy!

He sounds very... well.. He was telling her what they were going to do. That wasn''t a freaking discussion! No ''would you like to live in Italy after we get married'' or even ''would you like to get married''!!

A proposal implies a question, not a guy dictating what her life is going to be like.

'' they should get married he''d think it would be best for her to live in Italy with him and then goes on to say how about they get married in September which is when his older brother will be back in Italy from somewhere.''


HELLO?? NOT A PROPOSAL! He wasn''t even asking her freaking opinion!!

Forget the whole thing where he ignores what she has said is important to her and hands her a piece of junk he probably got out of his grandmother''s jewelry box or a thrift store, this guy has chauvenistic control freak written all over him! It''d be easy to write this off as a cultural difference, but Italian men are not usually that bad. (mainly because Italian women aren''t exactly doormats
)

Basically, this is not just a dissapointing proposal and ring... this is a GIANT RED FLAG


Everyone sing it with me now:
RUN run RUN RUN run
I agree. seems totally uncaring towards her.
What they said. I see trouble in this relationship. Even if it is the Italian culture, it is different from her culture. Is she willing to let him call all the shots in this relationship without even consulting her first? I think I would be more concerned about him assuming they were going to live in Italy (and assuming any other big things in the relationships) than what kind of ring or proposal she got.
 

FireGoddess

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 25, 2005
Messages
12,145
My mom and dad are Italian, and they got married oh....35 years ago...and she got a big ole 1.25 ct diamond back then so....
.

Whether it is customary or not, the point is, if it means a lot to her, some more thought should have been put into that. The idea of setting a budget for it and picking it out is great...I just think a little more thought could have been put into the whole thing.
 
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