What happens if you heat a dark blue sapphire? Should I re-cut?

[mrs-b]

Do they get darker? Lighter? Brighter? My sapphire from Alex Weber arrived (2.51ct cushion cut), and its great in *perfect* lighting. The rest of the time it blacks out. It has no inclusions to speak of, and in the right light (10am - 2pm directly under the sky light in my stair case) it's gorgeous. Apart from that? Not so great.

Would I be better with a recut? From who? I bought it at an auction, I can't return it, and I just want it to be better than this. This is my one and only.

ETA It's a native cut, by the way. And in the best light, it shows a loooot of purple. I'm afraid heat might make it darker.

 

[mrs-b]

 

[Autumn in New England]

Do they get darker? Lighter? Brighter? My sapphire from Alex Weber arrived (2.51ct cushion cut), and its great in *perfect* lighting. The rest of the time it blacks out. It has no inclusions to speak of, and in the right light (10am - 2pm directly under the sky light in my stair case) it's gorgeous. Apart from that? Not so great.

Would I be better with a recut? From who? I bought it at an auction, I can't return it, and I just want it to be better than this. This is my one and only.

Is the stone already heated? With regard to recuts... it depends. If it's a flawed cut creating a loss of light that makes the stone appear darker, then yes, a recut may help. If the crystal itself just has a deeper tone than you'd like, I'm afraid it would take quite a bit of weight loss to see any lightening effect. Because, after all, if you recut, you want to preserve as much weight as possible. Do you mind giving us a glimpse of your new morsel? I have a lap I can recommend.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Ahh you beat me to it! So this guy doesn't look overly dark at all to me!! Does it have a window? If not, I don't think it will benefit from a recut. I actually think he's rather handsome indeed.

 

[Autumn in New England]

I was expecting this... lol I'd say the tone of your stone is a solid medium, judging by that photo.

 

[Eli22]

I have a truly inky blue sapphire (my first one) purchased from Jeff Davies. It looks good in *some* lighting, but not much. I still have not set it. I don’t think a recut is in the cards for mine (it’s tiny):



Vendor pic:


My solution: nothing. It’s still in my “unset gems” pile. I just purchased a Ceylon sapphire ring that looks good in all lighting



Yours looks like a lovely/light enough color that it may benefit from recutting! Did Alex cut that or was it someone else? I know he’s a precision cutter, so I wonder if he would be willing to recut for performance.

 

[LilAlex]

Take it outside on a bright cloudy day and see how it looks. Indoor fluorescents? Probably lovely! It's hard to know what lighting it is failing under.

 

[mrs-b]

It’s lovely under ideal lighting. But I mean REALLY ideal. I showed this photo - which was taken from the vendor’s video - to a friend here, and he didn’t recognize the sapphire he was looking at in real life in that photo AT ALL. I, too, haven’t seen that level of color in it either. And I assure you, if you saw it in real life you wouldn’t be thinking “medium blue”. It’s more…muddy? Darker and browner? I’m just wondering if a recut could open up its color. There is also a dark banding through it.

I’m lost in the weeds with this and I’m out of my depth, granted. But this really isn’t hitting the bases.

 

[mrs-b]

Take it outside on a bright cloudy day and see how it looks. Indoor fluorescents? Probably lovely! It's hard to know what lighting it is failing under.

Looks good under incandescent (now illegal) and bright ambient lighting. It dies utterly under fluorescent, LED, low lighting, or direct lighting.

 

[Autumn in New England]

It’s lovely under ideal lighting. But I mean REALLY ideal. I showed this photo - which was taken from the vendor’s video - to a friend here, and he didn’t recognize the sapphire he was looking at in real life in that photo AT ALL. I, too, haven’t seen that level of color in it either. And I assure you, if you saw it in real life you wouldn’t be thinking “medium blue”. It’s more…muddy? Darker and browner? I’m just wondering if a recut could open up its color. There is also a dark banding through it.

I’m lost in the weeds with this and I’m out of my depth, granted. But this really isn’t hitting the bases.

Ahh I see... so it sounds like the vendor photos (like the one above) were quite misleading. Are you absolutely certain you cannot appeal to the seller for a possible return? How did you pay?

In my personal opinion, and others may disagree, I just don't think a recut is going to do much. From what I'm hearing, it doesn't seem like the cut is what's causing the issues. I mean, can the cut be improved... sure. But will it markedly improve the stone's overall appearance? I doubt it. Do you have a photo of the stone that shows what you're seeing in person? Because the cut, though native, looks ok in the vendor shot.

If you can't return it, better to sell it at the 2.51ct. and not lose caratage. Because if the recut doesn't help improve the color/performance, then you'll have to sell a now smaller stone with all the same issues, plus you're out the cutting costs. May I ask what you paid? I know the photo says $10k, but I assume (hope) that was their "other sellers would list it at this price, but not us" amount.

I'm just so bummed that this was your first foray into blue sapphires, and you were disappointed. So sorry, hon.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Would you consider cutting your losses? From your description it seems like you don’t like the colour at all. I’d be hesitant to throw more funds to fix it. You have to recut, you have to set it. It’s a lot of effort if the colour is difficult to coax out.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

this looks absolutly beautiful on my lap top but know the colours i see on it are not true
i have experience with too dark saphires @mrs-b , they just break your heart (and then your wallet remembers and that hurts too)

 

[Mreader]

Ahh you beat me to it! So this guy doesn't look overly dark at all to me!! Does it have a window? If not, I don't think it will benefit from a recut. I actually think he's rather handsome indeed.

I don’t see the picture! I only see Alex’s picture.
@mrs-b can you ask for a return anyway? A similar thing happened to me with Alex and he did accept a return. It was one of those garnets that looked so pretty and sparkly in his vids, and when I got it it was pale and blah. It bothered me so much. At first he said site credit, but then said he would refund me. He was nice about it.

 

[Rfisher]

Bummer @mrs-b
You’ve had lovely blue sapphires in the past, so yeah I don’t think you’ll ultimately be happy with recutting for the hope of improving color .

No idea on heat, but can only assume if it were that easy to step up the color - someone upchain would have already done it. Maybe heat + additives but would you want that?

As it’s already been said above, the current cutting isn’t bad. IMO the source cutter did their best to bounce light around the stone a bit before coming out for us to see the best color perception the material has a chance to.

Giving it a typical ‘precision cut’ (hard to tell if there’s a heavy belly on your stone or not?) I think would have the perception of lighter. Brighter facet reflection back to your eye - yes. But also perceived as less saturation than what it currently does/has, not less brown. And I think any color zoning would be more apparent. IMO of course.

 

[marymm]

Based on my own experience, I do think it would get lighter and brighter with a precision cut.

I have found that native cuts are often belly-heavy which deepens the apparent color face-up.

Not sure if Jeff White does re-cuts but there's a cutter named Boyd Fox some PSers have used and approved, and Sako's (of CJD Sako) father Vartan is a gemcutter who does recuts https://www.instagram.com/thegemdoctor/

But, I am not sure a recut will lessen the predominance of the purple ...

 

[Autumn in New England]

Bummer @mrs-b
You’ve had lovely blue sapphires in the past, so yeah I don’t think you’ll ultimately be happy with recutting for the hope of improving color .

No idea on heat, but can only assume if it were that easy to step up the color - someone upchain would have already done it. Maybe heat + additives but would you want that?

As it’s already been said above, the current cutting isn’t bad. IMO the source cutter did their best to bounce light around the stone a bit before coming out for us to see the best color perception the material has a chance to.

Giving it a typical ‘precision cut’ (hard to tell if there’s a heavy belly on your stone or not?) I think would have the perception of lighter. Brighter facet reflection back to your eye - yes. But also perceived as less saturation than what it currently does/has, not less brown. And I think any color zoning would be more apparent. IMO of course.

Your advice is always superlative. This, this, this, @mrs-b.

 

[mrs-b]

Thank you all so much for the support and the suggestions. I've really been feeling very flat about it.

It's not that it's just dark - it has a lot of "murk" to it - just a dull kind of effect And then - for 5% of the time I'm looking at it and the perfect light will hit it and...WOW!

<sigh>

I don't mind the purple in it - I actually like that purple undertone and think it gives it a vibrancy. It was just unexpected.

You know how unheated tanzanite can have a lot of brown in it? It's got that sort of vibe to it when in normal indoors lighting.

As for returning it - there were some major issues in shipping that led to a reasonably negative experience with the seller, so I don't even want to try to return it.

So basically, I feel kinda locked in and trapped with this stone. @Autumn in New England - I paid $3200 for it at auction. No returns - and, as I mentioned, I wouldn't even try, given how things were left with the vendor.

I would post more pictures, but I handed it off to Amy the morning after I received it, so I no longer have it. She's taking it to her gem person to take a look at to see if there's anything that might help it.

 

[mrs-b]

Bummer @mrs-b
You’ve had lovely blue sapphires in the past, so yeah I don’t think you’ll ultimately be happy with recutting for the hope of improving color .

No idea on heat, but can only assume if it were that easy to step up the color - someone upchain would have already done it. Maybe heat + additives but would you want that?

As it’s already been said above, the current cutting isn’t bad. IMO the source cutter did their best to bounce light around the stone a bit before coming out for us to see the best color perception the material has a chance to.

Giving it a typical ‘precision cut’ (hard to tell if there’s a heavy belly on your stone or not?) I think would have the perception of lighter. Brighter facet reflection back to your eye - yes. But also perceived as less saturation than what it currently does/has, not less brown. And I think any color zoning would be more apparent. IMO of course.

Honestly? I should have paid 3 or 4 times the amount and got something I was 100% sure about. I tried to cut corners and, as one learns with jewelry, there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Given where I am now, I agree with you, and I'm going to take your advice on this and just work with what I have.

Gonna try to give her a beautiful dress. A lot of us below-par would-be beauties shine when in our best outfits. In other words, I'm going to LOVE her - and see if she loves me back.

<3

 

[Autumn in New England]

Thank you all so much for the support and the suggestions. I've really been feeling very flat about it.

It's not that it's just dark - it has a lot of "murk" to it - just a dull kind of effect And then - for 5% of the time I'm looking at it and the perfect light will hit it and...WOW!

<sigh>

I don't mind the purple in it - I actually like that purple undertone and think it gives it a vibrancy. It was just unexpected.

You know how unheated tanzanite can have a lot of brown in it? It's got that sort of vibe to it when in normal indoors lighting.

As for returning it - there were some major issues in shipping that led to a reasonably negative experience with the seller, so I don't even want to try to return it.

So basically, I feel kinda locked in and trapped with this stone. @Autumn in New England - I paid $3200 for it at auction. No returns - and, as I mentioned, I wouldn't even try, given how things were left with the vendor.

I would post more pictures, but I handed it off to Amy the morning after I received it, so I no longer have it. She's taking it to her gem person to take a look at to see if there's anything that might help it.

We've all been there, honey. Chin up... I think you'll figure out the best course of action. Good luck!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Oof. Such a pickle. The bright side is you have an established relationship with an excellent vendor with connections who can advise you. And maybe you can find a way to have some fun with it. It’s weird but I keep seeing these dark dark sapphires all over IG these days? Stones that we would poo poo on these boards and very trendy jewlers are using them. Maybe you can roll with that trend. Something very goth and experimental could be the ticket.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Gonna try to give her a beautiful dress. A lot of us below-par would-be beauties shine when in our best outfits. In other words, I'm going to LOVE her - and see if she loves me back.

<3

I admire your spirit! I have done that with a pink zircon that is sitting in a setting that is worth too much for it and its dubious colour but the thing has grown on me and I think I’ve made my money back based on how many times I’ve worn it. I wouldn’t sell it now. It’s been a part of my life for too long.

 

[realru]

I don't post here often, but reading your post @mrs-b truly saddens me. I'm deeply sorry that you spent $3,500 only to receive a stone that looks nothing like what was described by the vendor. If I were in your shoes, I would definitely request to return the stone.
Alex Webber, a US-based gemstone dealer, used to facet stones himself and now sells "native" cut stones through Instagram auctions. He purchases these lower quality stones in huge bulk from overseas, assigns exaggerated retail values (such as $10,000 in this case), and auctions off these lower quality gems. True that every once in a while there are good gems that go for ok price, but not in the case even though it looks like you paid 2.5 times less than the assigned by the vendor inflated “retail” value.
You mentioned that the stone is not returnable, but is there any indication of this on Alex's page? As far as I know the auction rules are mute on that. Regardless, if you paid with PayPal or a credit card, you are covered by the customer protection policies offered by these payment agencies. You have every right to request a return for an item that is significantly different from its description, regardless of whether it was purchased through an auction or not. You may need to pay for the return shipping.
I wouldn't advise spending any more effort or money investing in a stone that you've already paid so much for, especially if the issue seems to lie with the actual color of the material, rather than just the cut. A recut is unlikely to solve it completely. Please don’t feel bad requesting a return. It’s your right as a customer.

 

[realru]

Here's some more food for thought: This sapphire passed through many hands before reaching you, including Alex, a skilled gem cutter. If any of the previous owners believed that a simple recut could enhance this sapphire to become a beautiful gem worthy of a $10k or even $3k price tag, why didn't anyone attempt to improve it? Why is it on you to improve it? For me the answer lies in the inherent quality and color of this crystal, not its cut. Since you have not shared any images or video of it aside from the vendor picture, I am simply going with what you had described in words.
I think that if you are after a beautiful color stone that looks good in different light, you can find one even if it’s not precision cut.

 

[mrs-b]

Oof. Such a pickle. The bright side is you have an established relationship with an excellent vendor with connections who can advise you. And maybe you can find a way to have some fun with it. It’s weird but I keep seeing these dark dark sapphires all over IG these days? Stones that we would poo poo on these boards and very trendy jewlers are using them. Maybe you can roll with that trend. Something very goth and experimental could be the ticket.

I agree, @Dreamer_D. I'm going to use a little antiquing to add some edge to it (maybe - if it works and if I like it when I see the final product etcetc). It has BIG moments. I would keep it just for its moments. Like a goth princess who every so often reveals herself to be pure Pollyanna.

 

[mrs-b]

I admire your spirit! I have done that with a pink zircon that is sitting in a setting that is worth too much for it and its dubious colour but the thing has grown on me and I think I’ve made my money back based on how many times I’ve worn it. I wouldn’t sell it now. It’s been a part of my life for too long.

Super encouraging - thanks @mellowyellowgirl!

 

[Dreamer_D]

I agree, @Dreamer_D. I'm going to use a little antiquing to add some edge to it (maybe - if it works and if I like it when I see the final product etcetc). It has BIG moments. I would keep it just for its moments. Like a goth princess who every so often reveals herself to be pure Pollyanna.

I wonder if the right coloured gem side stones would help really lean into the effect.

 

[mrs-b]

I wonder if the right coloured gem side stones would help really lean into the effect.

 

[Autumn in New England]

I feel like some vibrant tsav side stones would spruce her right up.

 

[newtojewels]

I'm sorry that it's ended up this way, I've been following along and it's really such a frustrating story.

I just got a ring with kind of dark stones from IVY New York that I think leans into the darkness in an edgy-pretty way. Sadly I'm traveling so my partner had to open the box when it arrived today and I'm stuck relying on a video call and one photo he took. I asked him for a comparison next to my cat and he makes even my photography look good!

Here's the one photo I have, not amazingly helpful:

Vendor photo which is probably more useful!

And a couple more for inspiration, I think these would look lovely with a dark and moody center stone:

 

[Autumn in New England]

I'm sorry that it's ended up this way, I've been following along and it's really such a frustrating story.

I just got a ring with kind of dark stones from IVY New York that I think leans into the darkness in an edgy-pretty way. Sadly I'm traveling so my partner had to open the box when it arrived today and I'm stuck relying on a video call and one photo he took. I asked him for a comparison next to my cat and he makes even my photography look good!

Here's the one photo I have, not amazingly helpful:

Vendor photo which is probably more useful!

And a couple more for inspiration, I think these would look lovely with a dark and moody center stone:

Guys are so adorable in their oblivion sometimes. That furry photo is everything! But the ring itself is quite beautiful in all its antique-looking glory. Congrats!! Hope you love it once you actually get to lay eyes on her. lol