What does it take to get into Stanford????

[Ann]

Kaleigh''s post about her daughter being accepted to Penn, made me start wondering.
(Congrats to her!)

I have a friend who is bragging and boasting all the time about his brilliant daughter. Frankly I''m sick of it. He put down the fact that my daughter goes to UT@Austin (Texas vs USC Rose Bowl!) Even though he went there. She (my daughter) is a UT Presidential Scholar and graduating 1 year early. His daughter is a junior in high school here in Houston and goes to a very competitive public high school. So did my daughter. Anyway, he says she is going to Stanford. She is near the top of her class, belongs to a few clubs and plays competitive soccer. Not a student that has done anything way over the top,academic or extra curr. SAT score so far, over 2000. (new test) From everything I have ever heard, Stanford takes only the very cream of the crop. I am thinking he might be in for a bit of a surprise, but then again, I could be wrong. I hope she does get in, but what does it take to get in to Stanford?

 

[movie zombie]

for one, lots of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$

peace, movie zombie

 

[Kaleigh]

To get into Stanford around here (Philadelphia) you have to be at the top of your class, great SAT scores and an excellent athlete. We only had one girl get in last year and she was an amazing student and a top ranked squash player as well. Also she had a lot of community service under her belt. My son would love to go there, but I feel it's so tough being out of state, we'll see. researcher can tell you more. We were talking about Stanford a while back. No one from Ashley's class applied this year, at least for early decision. I think your friend may be in for a surprise.

 

[FireGoddess]

I hate to say this...I really do. (And I can''t speak specifically for Stanford...I didn''t apply there for undergrad.)

I think legacies have a lot to do with it. So does money. I applied to an ivy league school for college, one I had wanted to go to all my life. I was an A student, had very good SAT scores, played on various school sports teams, was the president of several clubs....

My best friend''s dad went to this particular ivy league school, as did his father before him. So my best friend''s brother applies (he was a year ahead of us). Same GPA as me. Ironically, the exact same SAT scores. He didn''t play any sports or head up any clubs. He got in. I didn''t. They BS about how they want to you to be well rounded and have good grades...but they accepted a legacy who looked the same (if not AS good) as me on paper...so I take it with a grain of salt. There''s only so much you can do. Get good grades, try to be well rounded. The rest is a formula whose logic frankly escapes me...if there truly is a logic to it.

 

[Ann]

He can afford it. She is on the competitive soccer team - one of the best in the states, according to him. But she has hurt her knee twice, 2 surgeries. In a big tournament in Orlando over the holidays. He is always courting the coaches from the colleges that send coaches to watch these girls. He took her on a tour of only Ivy Leauge schools this past summer. That is great, but what a disappointment for her if she doesn''t get in. He is manic competitive - none will ever beat him at anything. I just hope he hasn''t set her standards so high, that only an Ivy Leauge will please him.

 

[crafftygrrl]

My son would love to get into Stanford. He''s a freshman at one of the best high schools in the DC area. He seems to be doing all the right things so far. I am very interested in this thread.

 

[Ann]

Date: 12/19/2005 5:32:36 PM
Author: crafftygrrl
My son would love to get into Stanford. He''s a freshman at one of the best high schools in the DC area. He seems to be doing all the right things so far. I am very interested in this thread.

Have you visited the collegeboard.org website yet? I think that is the name. There are forums for parents and students about colleges, GPA''s, and SAT''s. Very informative.

One of my other friends son''s best friend, got into Stanford a few years ago. This kid was a gee-whiz brain. He had an outside of school extr-curric that had him following a Cardio surgeon around the hospital. Then spent a few summers in 3rd world countries helping medical docs in rural camps set up for locals. Pres. of his senior class and at the top of his class. There is more, but it has been a while since I heard that news.

 

[Ann]

Date: 12/19/2005 5:32:36 PM
Author: crafftygrrl
My son would love to get into Stanford. He''s a freshman at one of the best high schools in the DC area. He seems to be doing all the right things so far. I am very interested in this thread.

Also, www.collegeconfidential.com

Lots of "what are my chances"

 

[MINE!!]

Date: 12/19/2005 5:28:42 PM
Author: FireGoddess
I hate to say this...I really do. (And I can''t speak specifically for Stanford...I didn''t apply there for undergrad.)


I think legacies have a lot to do with it. So does money. I applied to an ivy league school for college, one I had wanted to go to all my life. I was an A student, had very good SAT scores, played on various school sports teams, was the president of several clubs....


My best friend''s dad went to this particular ivy league school, as did his father before him. So my best friend''s brother applies (he was a year ahead of us). Same GPA as me. Ironically, the exact same SAT scores. He didn''t play any sports or head up any clubs. He got in. I didn''t. They BS about how they want to you to be well rounded and have good grades...but they accepted a legacy who looked the same (if not AS good) as me on paper...so I take it with a grain of salt. There''s only so much you can do. Get good grades, try to be well rounded. The rest is a formula whose logic frankly escapes me...if there truly is a logic to it.

I am going to second that FireGoddess... Hubby just read this book about how kids get into Ivy League type schools... well worth reading and quite scary as well... I will have to ask him when he gets home.

 

[Kim N]

- Excellent grades in challenging courses
- High SAT scores (this does not mean you need to get 1500+ out of 1600 (though I know it's out of 2400 now))
- Excellence in at least one extracurricular area (and I disagree that it must be athletics--I know many who got in based on excellence in community service (e.g. a unique, ongoing, impacting project) or in music)
- Showing leadership and initiative

The essays and letters of recommendations are perhaps the most important part of the package. Those are where the admissions officers learn about the student as a person. What has he/she done that is unique? What has he/she done that has made an impact to others? What has he/she done that is above and beyond? What makes this student stand out?

ETA: Legacy may have to do with it for some people, but for us non-legacy types, we have to depend on the above.

Also ETA: Simply belonging to a few clubs doesn't mean much as far as extracurriculars go. The admissions officers would want to know, what has he/she done in them? Has the student shown leadership and initiative in them? What has the student accomplished in them?

 

[MINE!!]

The book is called the Gatekeepers by Jacques Steinberg.

 

[Blue824]

First it takes luck.
Then it takes the right demographics.
That''s my opinion at least.

Mostly it is a crapshoot. There are SO many qualified students applying to each school that who''s to say why one is turned away and one is accepted? When I applied to Boston College there were 20,000 applicants for around 2,000 spots, if I remember correctly. I was above their averages, all signs would point to yes, but I got a no in the mail. Go figure. Its a lot easier to get money toward school now and there are lots of programs in urban and rural areas encouraging and assisting students to apply, the demographics where there were lower rates of going to college.

Overall I think demographics play a huge roll in it. If you''re a good student from North Dakota you''ll have a better shot than if you''re a good student from a major city. They''d rather have a diverse group of students than cookie cutters. Also, just from a zipcode they can find out things like average income, housing prices, etc of where you live and for certain areas would be able to pretty much figure out race too. That has to be a factor because there is a pretty good percentage of students that need to be paying full price.

I used to think legacies meant you were in, but not so much anymore. Have a really great friend who''s grandfather, great uncle, father, uncle and brother all went to Georgetown, his grades were BETTER than his brother''s and he didn''t get in. Similarly, grandfather, father and uncle of a friend went to Harvard, then their son applied last year, valedictorian, involved but not overly, great kid, super smart, and he didn''t get into Harvard. Not something you can count on anymore.

I feel bad for that girl. I don''t think parents should be so involved...its hard enough. And if the girl doesnt get into Stanford now I''m sure she''s going to feel like she''s let her father down. There''s enough pressure as it is, I can''t imagine if my parents had been so involved in my decision. Parents get so competitive about it. It is horrible...I''m sure this is similar to where a lot of you all live, but a lot of parents scheme to manipulate the system. It absolutely disgusts me! Ok I need to end here or else you''ll get another 5 pages just on the manipulative parents.

 

[Ann]

OH, I sooooo agree you have to be unique and stand out from the crowd. I don''t think she will make it, but that is a year away, and maybe her dad will see the light by then. I saw her this past weekend and she had on a Stanford sweatshirt. There is no way she would qualify for any type of aid - dad is wealthy. You can''t tell this guy anything, so I guess he''ll find out the world does not revolve around him. I''m sure when the time comes, he will fly out there and demand a yes from them. Ahh, the arrogance! I feel sorry for the daughter also. But, hey she might make it.

I wonder how Stanford stacks up against the other Ivies. Still tough I know, but harder? Much harder or looking for different criteria?

 

[flopkins]

As a student who went to school in CA and applied to Stanford as an undergrad and got rejected... (I went to Cal instead - GO BEARS!!) this is my 2 cents -

The students I know who have gotten into Stanford (at least, CA students) are at least 4.0 weighted GPA, over 1400 on the old SAT, and were exceptional in at least one extracurricular, usually sports. I think the key is being exceptional in extracurriculars. The reason I say this is I know many students (incl myself) who had excellent (4.0+) GPA and SAT, but did not get into Stanford. The students who did get in always excelled in either a sport, or nationally recognized club, just as JSA, or some such competitive club and won top honors in their respective fields.

The reality is, students w/top GPAs and SATs are a dime a dozen nowadays, so your kids have to be special in something - esp something competitive.

For example, one of my dearest friends, S had the (approx) stats:
GPA ~4.5 weighted
SAT >1500
varsity starter in Tennis, officer in JSA, Spanish Club president...

Another friend:
GPA/SAT similar to above
Band Drum Major (our band program was huge, approx 300 total members), on student council, varsity starter in tennis

Another friend:
GPA/SAT similar to above
JSA regionals stateswoman, officer of Western Regional JSA...

Athlete:
Not sure about grades/SAT (definitely sub-par compared to the others) but was highly recruited for the women''s volleyball team.

The funny thing is, FI (who also got rejected from Stanford as an undergrad) got into an Engineering Masters program there, and my aunt (who is OBSESSED with Stanford and Ivy League schools as only an asian mom can be) was SOOOOOOOOO impressed by this fact (that my mom conveniently let slip) she literally got up off her chair (we were having lunch at a nice dim sum place) and leaned over the entire table hyperventilating... it gave my mom *pure* satisfaction. My cousin (this aunt''s daughter) recently started college - and after all the endless bragging from said aunt about how great her GPA and SATs were... she ended up at good ol'' Berkeley after all! Not a peep about Stanford...

 

[codex57]

Like others said, you have to be outstanding in your extracurrics. The current trend is to be outstanding in one thing. Earlier, you impressed by being involved in a ton of crap.

I went to a nerd high school in california. Everyone had the numbers. However, those that got into the Ivy''s and Stanford, etc had amazing extracurriculer stuff and absolutely glowing letters of recs from teachers and other sources. Not just "this student is outstanding," but with specific detailed examples of how they were so outstanding. My buddy had an unweighted 4.0 (weighted would have been high 4''s), a 1590 on his SAT''s, etc. No real extracurricular stuff. You could tell it was resume stuffing. Teachers recognized him as smart, but that''s about it. Not particularly well rounded. Got rejected. My neighbor made it and she and the other people in my class who made it had the numbers as well, but they were truly involved in their extra curricular activities and not only excelled, but others recognized the excellence along with the passion.

From what you''ve told me about your friend''s daughter, she doesn''t sound very exceptional. Just like my buddy who got rejected, cept his numbers were far superior to hers it seems. She''s not poor, so, to be blunt, unless she''s an underrepresented minority that has glowing letters of rec, she''s got a snowball''s chance in hell.

 

[AGBF]

My daughter will be lucky to finish high school and her grandfather says that it is a good thng she is learning Spanish, because now she will be able to work at McDonald''s. Why couldn''t I have a kid who is going to ace the SATs and have to choose between Stanford and Duke?

Deb

 

[Mara]

I had a girlfriend at Stanford who was not extraordinarily smart nor at the top of her class, but she was a minority...does anyone have any idea on how that factors in nowadays? I vaguely recall when I was applying that we were encouraged to put that we were a minority on our applications, aka colleges had quotas to fill or something? Mind you this was ~10 years ago!

She did well there, she did some overseas interning and then graduated with a degree in business I think. Funny thing was she had the hardest time finding a job for up to a year afterwards. It could have just been the market...this was around 1997...but I recall the market being pretty good around then. I remember being puzzled as to why she was having such a hard time with a Stanford degree.

 

[movie zombie]

i feel your pain, deb..........

peace, movie zombie

 

[hoorray]

I applied to Stanford (years ago

), and remember their admisisons people talking about how they strive to have a diverse, balanced freshman class. That meant students from all over geographically, CA students were actually at a disadvantage, ethnically diverse, and a diversity of talents, along with the required top schlastics. I know many top scholars who were passed over for the more diverse individuals with slightly lessor stats. Thus, being top in something is probably important, and it probably helps if it someting not so common. I would assume athletes that they need for teams probably are treated seperately.

I wasn't interested in going to Stanford (didn't want it to cost that much for my mother when the UC system is so good and at the time so much cheaper), so I didn't try to get in. In hind sight, I got a great education, and still don't think I would have gone to Stanford due to the cost knowing what I know, but there is always something about the top names that carries through your carrer differently than all the others.

 

[crafftygrrl]

Ann.

My son came to dinner tonight in his Stanford sweats that I got him when I was in SF in September.

Thanks for the info. I appreciate your advice. I will be sure to check out those forums. My son currently is getting good grades, is a pole vaulter, plays saxophone in Band, and active in Robotics and in my synagogue. The key is has to keep this up.

 

[Waited2Long]

Date: 12/19/2005 7:23:06 PM
Author: flopkins
The funny thing is, FI (who also got rejected from Stanford as an undergrad) got into an Engineering Masters program there, and my aunt (who is OBSESSED with Stanford and Ivy League schools as only an asian mom can be) was SOOOOOOOOO impressed by this fact (that my mom conveniently let slip) she literally got up off her chair (we were having lunch at a nice dim sum place) and leaned over the entire table hyperventilating... it gave my mom *pure* satisfaction. My cousin (this aunt''s daughter) recently started college - and after all the endless bragging from said aunt about how great her GPA and SATs were... she ended up at good ol'' Berkeley after all! Not a peep about Stanford...

I know someone who recently got her MSME from Stanford and I''m in grad school now (at your cross-town rival!). I often hear how competitive it is to get into top schools, but I really don''t think that grad school is anywhere near as difficult to get into as undergrad is. Not saying it''s easy, just that grades and SATs carry lighter weights in the decision matrix. Probably a higher ratio of openings to applications.

 

[larussel03]

I would never put down a state university education. My bf and I both went to the university of massachusetts amherst, and got science degrees. The Microbiology program is one of the best in the country and my bf's specific concentration within biology program is the same one they follow at Harvard, and one of his professors wrote the comparative vertebrate anatomy book that they use at harvard. In all honesty, you get a great education for your money at a good state university. It's all about what you put into it.

 

[larussel03]

But to answer the question, my friends who got into prestigious schools (wellesly, oxford, stanford) all had STELLAR extra curriculars, their drive was so strong, their grades great, and 2 of 3 had parents who attended ivy league school and all 3 had rich parents. Applying to such schools to me was not even a consideration since I didnt want to come out of school with 160 grand (plus) in debt since my parents did not pay for college.

 

[larussel03]

Date: 12/19/2005 8:20:41 PM
Author: AGBF


My daughter will be lucky to finish high school and her grandfather says that it is a good thng she is learning Spanish, because now she will be able to work at McDonald''s. Why couldn''t I have a kid who is going to ace the SATs and have to choose between Stanford and Duke?

Deb

You may find this encouraging--my bf was not into school at all in high school--he passed classes enough to be able to play sports and never studied or did his homework. Unviersity of Mass Amherst was his reach school when he was applying for college. Yet he got in, and once he got into his major and being more independant, if he ever scored less than an AB (wierd grading system) he''d throw a fit! He graduated with a biology/neuroscience degree with ~3.4GPA, made deans list for 5 semesters, played rugby and worked 20 hours a week. He completely morphed into super responsible smart man! It turned out he just needed to be challenged, and he needed to enjoy what he studied.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 12/19/2005 11:07:03 PM
Author: *~Sweetpea~*
You may find this encouraging--my bf was not into school at all in high school--he passed classes enough to be able to play sports and never studied or did his homework. Unviersity of Mass Amherst was his reach school when he was applying for college. Yet he got in, and once he got into his major and being more independant, if he ever scored less than an AB (wierd grading system) he''d throw a fit! He graduated with a biology/neuroscience degree with ~3.4GPA, made deans list for 5 semesters, played rugby and worked 20 hours a week. He completely morphed into super responsible smart man! It turned out he just needed to be challenged, and he needed to enjoy what he studied.

That is a sweet and inspiring story, sweetpea . I have a cousin who has taken up permanent residence in Amherst so that he can attend the science classes there. If he picked U.Mass, it has to be the best.

Deb

 

[flopkins]

Date: 12/19/2005 9:25:47 PM
Author: Waited2Long


I know someone who recently got her MSME from Stanford and I''m in grad school now (at your cross-town rival!). I often hear how competitive it is to get into top schools, but I really don''t think that grad school is anywhere near as difficult to get into as undergrad is. Not saying it''s easy, just that grades and SATs carry lighter weights in the decision matrix. Probably a higher ratio of openings to applications.

W2Long- Maybe my FI knows your friend- he just graduated from the MSME program in 2005!

Grad school is a whole different ball game, IMO. The applicant pool is often much better to begin with (sort of a self selecting thing, I guess) in terms of grades/GPA/GREs but past the minimum numbers, it''s really whether your letters of rec are excellent, whether your interests match the department, and how competitive it is really depends on the specific program...

 

[pebbles]

Mara -- you are still encouraged to put that you are a minority on the college applications - no matter what school you apply to.

I attended a state university and it was actually one of the most competitive schools to get into in my state. I remember classmates being rejected for not "standing out" from the crowd. I also remember classmates that did get accepted that weren''t necessarily at the top of the class, but were a minority (don''t mean to offend - just what happened). I think state schools have the minority requirement worse than private schools, even though I''m sure the admissions officers will deny it. I had a classmate apply to Duke and we believe one of the reasons why she did get in is because she has some Native American ancestors, as her grades were not at the top.

My cousin went through this a few years ago when she applied to the same state school I did. The admissions counselors told her there were thousands of applicants, both state and out of state, that were basically clones of her == excellent grades, excelled at one or more activity, community service up the wazoo, etc. My cousin didn''t think she had a chance in hell to get it.

Then I remember something that the admissions counselor told me when I applied -- it also depends to what program you are applying to. Since I am a gal, I was told to apply to a program or select a major that didn''t have a lot of women in it. At the time I wanted to be a statistician (not sure why, but I really liked math

) and the math programs are usually dominated by men, so that''s what I applied with and got in. My cousin selected Actuary Science and got in too.

My cousin''s high school counselor did tell her not to overload herself with hundreds of extra-curicular activities, but to chose a few and excel at them (i.e. have a leadership position) as others have pointed out. When I applied (in the early 1990''s) it was be in as many activities as possible. Glad that line of thinking has changed.

Ann - I feel bad for that girl. I live in a suburb that has a lot of competition for everything. The high schools are huge, so there''s a ton of competition just to get into activities like band. It seems like "everyone" nowadays has a GPA above 4.0. Parents brag on what schools their kids go to and whether or not they got in by "early decision" (apparently it''s not good enough just to get in anymore). Lots of kids get brand new cars for their 16th birthdays (better cars than what I drive!) and if you''re not wearing the right clothes, forget it. We moved out here for the school system; now I''m beginning to feel maybe it wasn''t such a great idea....

I have two toddlers and to be honest, if they want to go to Stanford, I will be thrilled. If they want to go to the state school, I will be thrilled. If they want to stay home and go to the community college for a few years, I will be thrilled too. I just want them to be happy. There''s enough pressure on kids today that they don''t need any additional from their parents.

 

[fire&ice]

My brother went to Georgetown Dental School (yeah, it''s closed now). He got an "interview" because of someone he knew. One of the questions they ask is "how can you tell us how dexterious you are". He tied flies for fly fishing. He bought a litany of intricate flies. He brought his raw material to tie on on the spot. THAT really impressed him. He was granted a spot.

My point as others have noted - you have to have something special that sets you apart. Sometimes it blind luck. My Nephew got into a very competitive fine University b/c the guidance counselor at his school did a major screw up & didn''t submit the proper paper work. When found out, his transcripts, admission papers, etc were hand delivered. His SAT''s weren''t that great. His grades O.K. But, I think he was given more consideration because of the screw up & he was a National leader in DECCA.

And as noted - it really depends on what "school" (program) you want to get into. You have to have something that sets you apart for that particular fit. When hubby applied to a very competitive "design school" spot, he submitted years of his drawings. He kept them for no apparent reason - but was glad he did. Though that left brain of his drives me crazy, he''s pretty good.

It does help to know someone. Won''t guarantee a spot - but will get your application a second look. My friends belong to the supporters "club" of a university soley to have it on record.

At the end of the day, good luck to the girl. And, if she doesn''t get in - life is full of disappointments that turn into happy accidents.

 

[AsscherGirl]

Date: 12/19/2005 8:49:02 PM
Author: Mara
I vaguely recall when I was applying that we were encouraged to put that we were a minority on our applications, aka colleges had quotas to fill or something? Mind you this was ~10 years ago!

She did well there, she did some overseas interning and then graduated with a degree in business I think. Funny thing was she had the hardest time finding a job for up to a year afterwards. It could have just been the market...this was around 1997...but I recall the market being pretty good around then. I remember being puzzled as to why she was having such a hard time with a Stanford degree.

Mara,

Technically, "quotas" are illegal, based on equal opportunity laws. However, that does not mean that the schools are not keeping track of their own demographics...

I just graduated college from a state school this May & I had my job lined up in October before grad. All of my friends also had jobs immediately after school too. I have friends who went to higher rated, private schools & they''re working at the mall still! It''s interesting how that works out...

 

[Kim N]

Date: 12/19/2005 7:23:06 PM
Author: flopkins

I think the key is being exceptional in extracurriculars. The reason I say this is I know many students (incl myself) who had excellent (4.0+) GPA and SAT, but did not get into Stanford. The students who did get in always excelled in either a sport, or nationally recognized club, just as JSA, or some such competitive club and won top honors in their respective fields.

The reality is, students w/top GPAs and SATs are a dime a dozen nowadays, so your kids have to be special in something - esp something competitive.

Date: 12/19/2005 8:11:50 PM
Author: codex57
Like others said, you have to be outstanding in your extracurrics. The current trend is to be outstanding in one thing. Earlier, you impressed by being involved in a ton of crap.

I went to a nerd high school in california. Everyone had the numbers. However, those that got into the Ivy''s and Stanford, etc had amazing extracurriculer stuff and absolutely glowing letters of recs from teachers and other sources. Not just ''this student is outstanding,'' but with specific detailed examples of how they were so outstanding.

Yes, I completely agree with everything both of you said.