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Boogeyman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
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New member here with a question. I''ve done a bit of reading here in the educational forum and armed with a bit of knowledge, went to visit a fairly large jeweler on Tuesday during a trip to South Florida. I explained what I was looking for which is an extremely clean VS1 or better stone with a quality cut being the most important consideration followed by a stone with a good depth/table ratio. That being said, we chatted for 4 hours and he showed me how and why cut should be the first consideration. He had 3 poorly cut one carat stones he uses for educational purposes. He showed me a .83 stone with an ideal cut which I compared visually to all 3 of the poorly cut one carat stones. The larger stones had a smaller table and deeper depth and the reverse held true for the smaller stone. Quite an education to say the least.

After looking at approximately 6 stones within my budget which is approximately $5k, I found one that talked to me which is a very clean VS1 F in color with an ideal cut. The table is 62 and depth is 55 and the girdle is medium. This particular stone is not GIA certified and priced at $4,800.00 I visually compared this stone very carefully against a GIA certified 1.20 stone with the exact same measurements and cut quality and took my time doing so. I am far from an expert with a trained eye but comparitively speaking to my eye, they were almost identical in cut, color and overall fire. It''s a very nice stone with one very small inclusion off the table at the 1 o''clock position. I am going with a 6 point setting and a vast majority of the inclusion will be hidden by the prong if not all.

I''ve bought a fair amount of jewerly from this chap before and I''d mentioned I visit this forum and his comment was basically for comparitive purposes, go to Blue Nile and search their stones which are on the same quality level. I''ve done that and price wise etc., it appears to be a decent price. He has absolutely no problems getting the stone GIA certified if I am willing to bear the expense of doing so and add that to the overall cost. The stone comes with a one year price match guarantee with any jeweler and a trade in/up policy where I''ll get a store credit for the exact amount (4,800) towards the purchase of any other stone or piece of jewerly in the store which is for life.

It seems like a decent deal. He''s been in the business for 30 years and has a 10,000 square foot store with 5 million plus in on hand inventory which he hopes to double by the spring time to 10 million plus. I am seriously thinking of purchasing the stone. The one thing I can see after 4 hours of viewing stones is that when shopping stones in a store face to face, you can compare a dozen stones side by side. Obviously with e-shopping, comparing a dozen stones side by side in person is not an option.

That all being said, how does this deal sound in general? Any thoughts, recommendations and or input will be extremely helpful to say the very least.

Thank you.
 
so, is the stone you are considering the one with the 55% depth and 62% table? if so, was that what was considered ''ideal'' cut or ''poor'' cut?
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Date: 11/9/2006 10:03:11 AM
Author: belle
so, is the stone you are considering the one with the 55% depth and 62% table? if so, was that what was considered ''ideal'' cut or ''poor'' cut?
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I''m thinking/hoping he reversed those...
 
Date: 11/9/2006 10:07:27 AM
Author: Ellen

Date: 11/9/2006 10:03:11 AM
Author: belle
so, is the stone you are considering the one with the 55% depth and 62% table? if so, was that what was considered ''ideal'' cut or ''poor'' cut?
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I''m thinking/hoping he reversed those...
Agreed.

Still, since you HAVE already found Pricescope, you should value your time, too. Including those 4 hours of YOURS, and the other time you''ve spent here.

Have you checked the databases here yet? Do this, to see the premium you''d be paying, for this. Be clear the value is there.

Are you in a rush? Do you REALLY like him?

Could you conscionable order this one up (found on the search by cut board here), bring it in, and compare against his?

Then again, comparing to the broad mix of similar options certed by EGL, they range in price from $2900 - $3100. And his isn''t certed.

So, I don''t know. His option may be pretty nice, and I may just be polluting your mind. $4 - 5000 is a lot of money. Although your friend''s option is nice, and may very well be the one you want to go with, it would be good to put that teeny diamond in perspective.

Just some thoughts.
 
Date: 11/9/2006 9:54:40 AM
Author:Boogeyman

It seems like a decent deal. He''s been in the business for 30 years and has a 10,000 square foot store with 5 million plus in on hand inventory which he hopes to double by the spring time to 10 million plus. I am seriously thinking of purchasing the stone. The one thing I can see after 4 hours of viewing stones is that when shopping stones in a store face to face, you can compare a dozen stones side by side. Obviously with e-shopping, comparing a dozen stones side by side in person is not an option.
This is actually more of a negative than a positive. A 10,000 square foot showroom with $5 million in on-hand inventory means pretty large overhead costs that he has to pass on to the consumer in order to stay in business.
 
Are there any independent appraisers in your area that you can set up an appointment with to have the stone appraised?

If you really like the uncerted stone you''ve mentioned, see if the jeweler would allow the stone to be shipped to the appraiser for an analysis of the stone. It would be even better if you could be there during the appraisal process so you can ask questions while the appraisal is going on. I recently had a face-to-face appraisal done by an indy and let me say, it really does help being there and getting feedback from a professional. If the jeweler recommends an appraiser, I''d politely decline the offer, as there could be conflicts of interest.

If he wont'' allow that, see if he has a no-questions asked return policy (and get it in writing). Even if it''s something like 5-7 days, that should give you enough time to go to an appraiser and have him/her look over the stone and see if you got what you paid for.

my issue with un-certed stones is that you don''t know who graded it an F/VS1, what their qualifications are, how they graded - or better yet, why they didn''t bother spending the $200-300 to send the stone out to a lab for a cert.

I''d stay away from the expense and hassle of having the stone graded by GIA until you get it appraised and are comfortable with your purchase decision.

Just my two..
 
Date: 11/9/2006 11:01:03 AM
Author: luvthatstone
Are there any independent appraisers in your area that you can set up an appointment with to have the stone appraised?

If you really like the uncerted stone you''ve mentioned, see if the jeweler would allow the stone to be shipped to the appraiser for an analysis of the stone. It would be even better if you could be there during the appraisal process so you can ask questions while the appraisal is going on. I recently had a face-to-face appraisal done by an indy and let me say, it really does help being there and getting feedback from a professional. If the jeweler recommends an appraiser, I''d politely decline the offer, as there could be conflicts of interest.

If he wont'' allow that, see if he has a no-questions asked return policy (and get it in writing). Even if it''s something like 5-7 days, that should give you enough time to go to an appraiser and have him/her look over the stone and see if you got what you paid for.

my issue with un-certed stones is that you don''t know who graded it an F/VS1, what their qualifications are, how they graded - or better yet, why they didn''t bother spending the $200-300 to send the stone out to a lab for a cert.

I''d stay away from the expense and hassle of having the stone graded by GIA until you get it appraised and are comfortable with your purchase decision.

Just my two..
Impressions...you need to match the nature of the question with the solution. Frankly, although the writer may be ready to do what you say...I think he might want to open up, rather than narrow this down, particularly.

Finding a girlfriend, to start with, once someone becomes available, the first thing to do is not necessarily ask to meet their parents.

I think the writer needs to step back, rather than step closer in.

Maybe just me.
 
Welcome to PS
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I too would say take your time and don't rush into a purchase. There can be a lot to learn about diamonds, ultimately it is what your eyes see that dictate the parting of cold hard cash or not, but there are many diamonds out there to choose from. You have a nice budget and should be able to find what you want without too much difficulty. You know that diamond is there and you are learning the basics of cut quality, it would be time well spent to also study the tutorials here - everything should be there or archived that you could ever want to know. Then once armed with a working knowledge as you are doing, start looking and comparing.

I too hope that the depth and table are the wrong way round on this diamond! If this is really the first diamond you have seen, don't rush to pull the trigger, especially if the proportions you have given are correct.
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With online shopping it is true that you can't compare diamonds with actual visuals, however you have so much info on cut quality that you can make a very informed choice, most vendors have an excellent and generous return policy, plus lower overheads than B&M stores. So it might be worth considering at least.
 
Thanks for the warm welcome and repllies to my post. Indeed those numbers were reversed. I''ve searched PS for comparitive stones and the prices have been for the most part, higher but I may have searched incorrectly so I''ll have another go at it. I''ve got some time and I am not in a rush. I am planning to propose either at Christmas over New Years.
More likely than not, during Christmas as I''ve got a few ideas in mind. I''ve got a budget of right around $5k and size is not critical. The overall quality of the stone is.

I''d downloaded a tutorial and been searching for the following. Perhaps someone can provide some additional input and or thoughts here.

Budget: Approx $5K
Table: 55 to 59
Depth: 59.5 to 62
Girdle: Medium or Thin to Medium
Cut: SI1 to VS2
Carat Weight: Been searching from .90 to 1.25

Any thoughts ?

Thanks
 
Yes, they were reversed lol. I''ve posted an update with the search parameters I''ve been using.
 
Date: 11/9/2006 1:51:03 PM
Author: Boogeyman
Thanks for the warm welcome and repllies to my post. Indeed those numbers were reversed. I''ve searched PS for comparitive stones and the prices have been for the most part, higher but I may have searched incorrectly so I''ll have another go at it. I''ve got some time and I am not in a rush. I am planning to propose either at Christmas over New Years.
More likely than not, during Christmas as I''ve got a few ideas in mind. I''ve got a budget of right around $5k and size is not critical. The overall quality of the stone is.

I''d downloaded a tutorial and been searching for the following. Perhaps someone can provide some additional input and or thoughts here.

Budget: Approx $5K
Table: 55 to 59
Depth: 59.5 to 62
Girdle: Medium or Thin to Medium
Cut: SI1 to VS2
Carat Weight: Been searching from .90 to 1.25

Any thoughts ?

Thanks
Hi!

Good for you on doing your homework. Personally, I would like to see you keep your depth between about 60.3 and 62. Table 55-57 .Everything else I agree with.

Are you entertaining the idea of buying online, or strictly from a retail store?
 
Thanks for the reply. I have no problem buying online as the obvious benefit is savings. The obvious pitfall being I can''t compare say a half dozen stones. That being said, I''d probably still opt for an online purchase and an indy evaluation prior to payment.
 
Just curious.. when searching the "Search All Listings", if I search all of the virtual listings as opposed to only the inhouse, in theory how would I know if the very same stone was advertised as available to two vendors and yet being listed for sale at two different prices?
I.e., vendor A selling for $5400 and vendor B selling for $5050?
 
Date: 11/9/2006 2:10:30 PM
Author: Boogeyman
Thanks for the reply. I have no problem buying online as the obvious benefit is savings. The obvious pitfall being I can''t compare say a half dozen stones. That being said, I''d probably still opt for an online purchase and an indy evaluation prior to payment.
Well, if you are open to online, I will tell you what I told another new purchaser. To take the guesswork out of it, and totally ensure you get a stunning diamond, you cannot go wrong with WhiteFlashes own brand, A Cut Above. And you need not worry about comparing them, or rather, not being able to. Every one is cut to an extremely high standard, you can''t go wrong.

I have purchased from them, more than once. Their brand is stunning, and they are great to work with. They''re also having a sale for the month of Nov.
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Boogey, what color range are you looking for?
 
Date: 11/9/2006 2:21:49 PM
Author: Boogeyman
Just curious.. when searching the 'Search All Listings', if I search all of the virtual listings as opposed to only the inhouse, in theory how would I know if the very same stone was advertised as available to two vendors and yet being listed for sale at two different prices?

I.e., vendor A selling for $5400 and vendor B selling for $5050?

The only way to know for sure is by looking at the grading reports for each stone (GIA,AGS, EGL, etc).
 
Funny, as you were typing the reply, I was already on the site looking. Their site is nicely done indeed. The cut above line looks great although out of my price range for the most part. I did find the stone at the following link while viewing their site and this particular stone is within my budget just to use an example.

http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-155614.htm#
 
I''d say E thru G would work.
 
Date: 11/9/2006 2:50:07 PM
Author: Boogeyman
Funny, as you were typing the reply, I was already on the site looking. Their site is nicely done indeed. The cut above line looks great although out of my price range for the most part. I did find the stone at the following link while viewing their site and this particular stone is within my budget just to use an example.

http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-155614.htm#
IF it''s eye clean, it should be a beauitiful stone! a lot of the Expert Selection stones miss the ACA name for reasons only WF knows, meaning to the average person, there''s no difference.

Give them a call and ask about it!
 
Will do. I just emailed them about it as I am on the way to run some errands. Once a stone is found, them I start all over again with a setting lol.

Thanks for your help, I NEED it lol.
 
No problem, I''m glad to help. Let us know what they say!
 
Date: 11/9/2006 2:21:49 PM
Author: Boogeyman
Just curious.. when searching the 'Search All Listings', if I search all of the virtual listings as opposed to only the inhouse, in theory how would I know if the very same stone was advertised as available to two vendors and yet being listed for sale at two different prices?
I.e., vendor A selling for $5400 and vendor B selling for $5050?
Identical stones are listed consecutively, or almost.

The sort is, I think, a function mostly of carat weight and price
 
They actually gave me a call while I was out. The woman I spoke with was great and recommended one other stone and they''ll be sending me info. The difference between the Expert grade stones and the Cut Above line are nothing anyone would see with the eye let alone perhaps a loupe. The VP does all the grading and according to the woman I spoke with is a bit neurotic and when meausuring etc., if a measurement is off by 1/10 of a degree or even less on one cut, it will not make the cut above grade. This particular stone is in stock and from what I am told, a phenominal value. They''re holding that one for me for a couple of days while they do some more research. They''re extremely helpful to say the least and I felt very comfortable talking with this woman. I expressed my various concerns and she answered all of my questions. This stone is without question "Eye Clean".

Well see ;-)
 
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Let us know what you decide!
 
It can also be a good thing to buy locally.....very often a local jeweler will be willing to match an online price for similar quality....just a thought!!!
 
Date: 11/9/2006 4:39:12 PM
Author: Carlotta
It can also be a good thing to buy locally.....very often a local jeweler will be willing to match an online price for similar quality....just a thought!!!
In my experience of shopping both, to get the quality he''s looking at, he''d be looking at a branded stone in a B&M, and the mark up would be big. I''m skeptical it would be matched in price.
 
Thank you!
 
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