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BCEagle03

Rough_Rock
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Jun 26, 2009
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My boyfriend and I have been looking at diamonds my e-ring for the past few weeks. We have learned a lot throughout our search and by reading this forum. I have found one stone that I really liked but I want to get your thoughts here.

Here are the specs:

GIA
2.28Ct
E Color
SI2 - it is a very clean SI2 and I could not see any inclusons the naked eye (It is eye clean)
Excellent Cut
Very Good Polish
Excellent Symmetry
No Fluorescence
Depth: 59.8%
Table: 57%
Crown Angle - 33 degrees
Crown Height - 14.0%
Pavilion Angle - 40.8 degrees
Pavilion Dept 43.0%
Girdle - Medium, facted (3.0%)

The price is $21.5K

Thank you in advance for any help that can provide.

Thanks!!
Rebecca
 
It''s got potential, did you run it through the Holloway Cut Adviser which is available via the Tools / Cut Adviser link above? It scores "Excellent 0.7" which is promising. But the proportions are only part of the picture, can you post images from an ASET and Ideal Scope on the forum for further comment?
 
Date: 6/27/2009 1:08:50 AM
Author: Todd Gray
It''s got potential, did you run it through the Holloway Cut Adviser which is available via the Tools / Cut Adviser link above? It scores ''Excellent 0.7'' which is promising. But the proportions are only part of the picture, can you post images from an ASET and Ideal Scope on the forum for further comment?
Click to expand...
Hi Rebecca!

Ditto Todd, the images are the next step if you can get them.
 
Numbers look good.
 
Thanks for the feedback. I saw this diamond in a B&M store. I don't even know if they have the capability of taking those pictures. Do a lot of jewelers have the ability to do this? The store I am going to is a fairly large dealer of diamonds and they have been awarded awards for "Best of Boston - Engagement Rings."

Before going to this particular store we had looked around at a few places and I started to narrow down my preferences based on budget, etc. I decided that I wanted a D/E or maybe even an F, 2cts and up (I like big), XXX if possible and SI1 or SI2 in clarity. So, when we got to this store we were already fairly well educated. The owner of the store was working with us and I told her what I wanted. She put about 8 stones on a tray without telling me what they were and had me walk around the store and look at the stones in all different types of light and from different angles. I picked this stone out as the prettiest! So, in person I think that it does have good performance because I chose it based on appearance.

Then, after going this store we went to one more...Long's in Boston. The guy was such a "salesman" but the diamond he showed us was SO sparkly! BUT the confusing part is that it was only a VG cut and an F in color. I don't understand how a VG cut could actually appear to have more sparkle?

So, the salesperson from Long's is looking for other stones for us because the one he had was exactly 2 cts and I would prefer something bigger. He claims that their buyers purchase stones based on light performance. Does this mean that I then don't need to focus so much on the "cut" of the stone and just worry about what it looks like? Sometimes I think too much research is making this decision harder!
 
I would report back with the details of any other diamonds the seller shows you then we can take a look for you, cut quality is very important and best to weed out the best ones - often once you get them away from the store lights lesser cut diamonds can go dead so you want the best cut you can find.

Cut grades such as VG can indeed be lovely stones, it depends on the proportions. Sometimes these diamonds can be downgraded for things which are insignificant to beauty, but always best to evaluate each carefully. Also not many store jewellers have access to an Idealscope to let you view or will supply images, the best test is to ask if you can view any contenders away from the store lights to see how they look in plain daylight, or check them out under a desk to see if they go dead for sparkle. A well cut stone will still have some life to it even in dimmer lighting.

You could buy an IS to check diamonds out yourself, but if you don't mind spending a little more an ASET scope is actually more useful, it shows not only leakage but light return, plus you can use it effectively for fancy shapes should the need arise.

http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_zoom_item.asp?Id=23&ShowAdd=Y

This page explains how ASET/ IS work

http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance

One thing further, with the first diamond being an SI2, what are the grade making inclusions for this diamond, such as feathers, clouds and so on? If clouds are marked on the clarity plot then it would be best to have an independant appraiser check the diamond out to make sure the clouds aren't impacting brilliance, this isn't always the case but it is always best to check in SI clarity.
 
I like the way the first store works.

The second store, we will need to look at the specs to see why it was a VG in cut. Sometimes it is just small things like a VG thin girdle or a depth of over 62.7% that have it downgraded to VG cut.

You can buy a Idealscope for about 25USD and then go check out the stone yourself.
http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_order.asp
 
You are so helpful!

I should tell you, in both stores we looked at the diamonds outside of the store lights. We even went outside with the diamond at the second store but at the first just looked at in natural light by a window and went in a hallway that did not have fancy lights. In fact before, telling us what the stone were she didn''t want me to see them under the "special" store lights so they were not on in her viewing room until after we inspected them in the different lights.

The sales person at this second store has been searching for diamonds for me to take a look at and he plans to have them by Tuesday. Part of my issue with this store is that they are such salespeople. They are known for being notoriously overpriced. My boyfriend told the guy that his budget is 23K in the setting. So, they promised us that everything they showed us would not be any more than that. He called me yesterday and told me he had a 2.14 ct, F color, VVS2 and I asked how it could be in our price range. He said that nothing he is showing us is but that the value in this sale for him is me being a walking billboard for Long''s. I just hate that type of talk because I don''t know if I can really believe that!!

I guess I will have to see what they come up with on Tuesday. As of right now I think they will have 4-5 diamonds for me to look at. The stone I posted the stats for is on hold for me right now and I will go back on the same day I see the other stones so that I can compare.
 
Date: 6/27/2009 9:43:38 AM
Author: BCEagle03
You are so helpful!

I should tell you, in both stores we looked at the diamonds outside of the store lights. We even went outside with the diamond at the second store but at the first just looked at in natural light by a window and went in a hallway that did not have fancy lights. In fact before, telling us what the stone were she didn''t want me to see them under the ''special'' store lights so they were not on in her viewing room until after we inspected them in the different lights.

The sales person at this second store has been searching for diamonds for me to take a look at and he plans to have them by Tuesday. Part of my issue with this store is that they are such salespeople. They are known for being notoriously overpriced. My boyfriend told the guy that his budget is 23K in the setting. So, they promised us that everything they showed us would not be any more than that. He called me yesterday and told me he had a 2.14 ct, F color, VVS2 and I asked how it could be in our price range. He said that nothing he is showing us is but that the value in this sale for him is me being a walking billboard for Long''s. I just hate that type of talk because I don''t know if I can really believe that!!

I guess I will have to see what they come up with on Tuesday. As of right now I think they will have 4-5 diamonds for me to look at. The stone I posted the stats for is on hold for me right now and I will go back on the same day I see the other stones so that I can compare.
Click to expand...
Thank you!

Let us know how you get on and post the details of the other diamonds when you have them.
 
I just have one more quick question. I have been reading the forums more and it seems that the crown angle on this stone (33 degrees) is much smaller than the other stones I have seen which usually seem to be 34+. How will that affect the appearance and light performance?
 
A shallower crown angle is cut for light return, could result in less fire compared to those of more typical crown angle.
 
Why does it still score so well on the HCA? Is 33 really shallow?
 
It is not really that shallow, just on the shallower side. 33.5 - 35 is the more common angle.

What you gain is a relatively bigger spread for an equivalent weight stone.
 
Date: 6/28/2009 2:46:37 PM
Author: BCEagle03
I just have one more quick question. I have been reading the forums more and it seems that the crown angle on this stone (33 degrees) is much smaller than the other stones I have seen which usually seem to be 34+. How will that affect the appearance and light performance?
Click to expand...
A shallower crown angle can enable greater white light return which shows as brilliance, in these cases fire or coloured light can be down some. Also not always the case that you necessarily get increased spread with a shallower crown angle. An angle of 33 degrees is still quite acceptable with a suitable pavilion angle, just that it will make a diamond look more brilliant than fiery in most cases.
 
Thanks for your responses, I was getting worried!
 
Date: 6/28/2009 2:58:10 PM
Author: BCEagle03
Why does it still score so well on the HCA? Is 33 really shallow?
Click to expand...
No, really shallow in PS terms is more around 32 degrees, in the real world probably 31, 29 degrees or less.
 
Date: 6/28/2009 3:03:36 PM
Author: BCEagle03
Thanks for your responses, I was getting worried!
Click to expand...
No need, the diamond is fine!
 
So a friend of our family (who is a jeweler but usually doesn''t deal in loose diamonds) would be able to source the following diamonds. Are they worth even having brought in since the HCA scores are so low....considering the diamond I posted above?

Stone 1:
Cert: GIA
Ct: 2.17
Color/Clarity: ESi2
Table: 58%
Depth: 62.1%
Make: Excellent Cut, Polish and Symmetry
Dimensions: 8.27 x 8.31 x 5.15
Crown Angle: 35.5
Pavilion Angle: 41.1
Flourescence: None
Price: $19,900
Comments: None

Stone 2:
Cert: GIA
Ct: 2.22
Color/Clarity: ESI2
Table: 58%
Depth: 62.2%
Make: Excellent Cut, Very Good Polish, Excellent Symmetry
Dimensions: 8.32 x 8.36 x 5.19mm
Crown Angle: 35.5
Pavilion Angle: 41.2
Flourescence: None
Price: $21,000
Comments: Eye clean, crystal, feather, cloud. No surface or internal graining.
 
nope, not worth considering.
 
Date: 6/29/2009 1:58:20 PM
Author: BCEagle03
So a friend of our family (who is a jeweler but usually doesn''t deal in loose diamonds) would be able to source the following diamonds. Are they worth even having brought in since the HCA scores are so low....considering the diamond I posted above?

Stone 1:
Cert: GIA
Ct: 2.17
Color/Clarity: ESi2
Table: 58%
Depth: 62.1%
Make: Excellent Cut, Polish and Symmetry
Dimensions: 8.27 x 8.31 x 5.15
Crown Angle: 35.5
Pavilion Angle: 41.1
Flourescence: None
Price: $19,900
Comments: None

Stone 2:
Cert: GIA
Ct: 2.22
Color/Clarity: ESI2
Table: 58%
Depth: 62.2%
Make: Excellent Cut, Very Good Polish, Excellent Symmetry
Dimensions: 8.32 x 8.36 x 5.19mm
Crown Angle: 35.5
Pavilion Angle: 41.2
Flourescence: None
Price: $21,000
Comments: Eye clean, crystal, feather, cloud. No surface or internal graining.
Click to expand...
Both have steep deep crown and pavilion angles, light leakage will probably result and these diamonds will not sparkle well as a result.
 
Thank you for both of your replies. I will let her know that we don''t want to see them.

I am waiting for a call from the other local store and hopefully I will be able to see about 5 diamonds tomorrow. I will do my best to get the GIA reports right away.

Thanks again!
 
Date: 6/29/2009 2:36:14 PM
Author: BCEagle03
Thank you for both of your replies. I will let her know that we don''t want to see them.

I am waiting for a call from the other local store and hopefully I will be able to see about 5 diamonds tomorrow. I will do my best to get the GIA reports right away.

Thanks again!
Click to expand...
Most welcome, passing on those 2 is the right decision for sure. I will keep an eye out, post the info on the other diamonds when you get it and good luck for tomorrow
35.gif
 
As it turns out they won''t have the "winner" until Thursday but I''m going to see one of them in a little bit. I have the first diamond on hold and I hate to keep it on hold if I know for sure I have found a better stone.

I don''t know too much about this one other than it is G, 2.24ct, SI1.

The stone he is waiting on for Thursday is D, 2.27 ct., SI1.

The G color stone will be 23K in the setting and the D will be 23.6K in the setting. My hunch tells me that the D is a better "deal" but I will have to see them in person.

This guy keeps telling me not to get hung up on the 4Cs and angles and telling me to just let my eyes decide. Is that truly an OK thing to do if you make sure to check it out in all different types of light? I do know that this store is notorious for their incredible diamonds. I know a few people who have e-rings from here and they all are ridiculously sparkly.

We''ll see I guess!!
 
yap, you will see. :)

Enjoy. :)
 
Date: 6/29/2009 5:06:48 PM
Author: BCEagle03
As it turns out they won't have the 'winner' until Thursday but I'm going to see one of them in a little bit. I have the first diamond on hold and I hate to keep it on hold if I know for sure I have found a better stone.

I don't know too much about this one other than it is G, 2.24ct, SI1.

The stone he is waiting on for Thursday is D, 2.27 ct., SI1.

The G color stone will be 23K in the setting and the D will be 23.6K in the setting. My hunch tells me that the D is a better 'deal' but I will have to see them in person.

This guy keeps telling me not to get hung up on the 4Cs and angles and telling me to just let my eyes decide. Is that truly an OK thing to do if you make sure to check it out in all different types of light? I do know that this store is notorious for their incredible diamonds. I know a few people who have e-rings from here and they all are ridiculously sparkly.

We'll see I guess!!
Click to expand...

What I would do is this, see which ones you like in the store, then ask the owner if you can borrow his computer
11.gif
. If he says yes, log in here and use the HCA tool to see which score below 2 which are usually the ones worth concentrating on.

http://www.pricescope.com/cutadviser.asp


That way you will know that you have diamonds with good proportions then use your eyes to see which you like best. Also see if you can check them out away from the store lights or if not under a desk, that way you will be able to see which go dead and which don't.
 
I saw the G color 2.24cts today. It was BLINDING. The sparkle is so intense. Even when he opened up the paper and it was face down you could just see all of the sparkle coming from it. I did look at it under the desk and in a dark corner and the sparkle keeps coming. We took it outside in the sunlight and I have never seen such fire coming off of a stone. I stepped back about 20 feet and it was still incredible.

I''m hoping that the D color they are bringing in on Thursday will be just as great only a D instead of a G. It is a little bit bigger and they are only going to charge us $600 more for it than the G.

So, now I''m going to wait until Thursday and then go look at the original stone the same day and see which one speaks to me more!
 
Date: 6/29/2009 7:33:53 PM
Author: BCEagle03
I saw the G color 2.24cts today. It was BLINDING. The sparkle is so intense. Even when he opened up the paper and it was face down you could just see all of the sparkle coming from it. I did look at it under the desk and in a dark corner and the sparkle keeps coming. We took it outside in the sunlight and I have never seen such fire coming off of a stone. I stepped back about 20 feet and it was still incredible.

I''m hoping that the D color they are bringing in on Thursday will be just as great only a D instead of a G. It is a little bit bigger and they are only going to charge us $600 more for it than the G.

So, now I''m going to wait until Thursday and then go look at the original stone the same day and see which one speaks to me more!
Click to expand...
Great stuff!!!
 
I have another question about the first stone I listed above. The GIA Report says "additional clouds, internal graining and surface graining are not shown."

This family friend of ours says that this is a very bad comment and that internal graining and surface graining affect the brilliance and re-sale value of a diamond considerably. She said that the stone would not be resalable in the trade or that it would be "killed" meaning that it would be seriously devalued.

Just curious if you have any thoughts on the internal and surface graining.

Thanks!
 
That jeweler friend? I am not going to take his word for it, he is probably trying to put down other people's goods so that he can sell you his stone. Not necessary bad, if it is not grade setting inclusions. If you are really worried, get it independently appraised as a condition before finalizing the deal.
 
My parents have a friend who is a jeweler. She does not usually deal in loose diamonds but because she has a network of contacts she has also worked on sourcing a stone for us. I sent her the GIA report on the stone I mentioned in my first post and she was trying to find a very similar stone for the same or lower price. When looking at the report, one of her colleagues told her that the comment regarding internal/surface grading was very bad and that we should be very wary of the stone.

Price is important and we want to get a good deal but I also don''t want to get a stone that does not have optimal light performance because sparkle is very important to me. I''m not super concerned about resale value because I do not intend to upgrade in the future. We are trying to shop for a high quality stone now because I don''t think that I will ever want a new one.

I think that your advice of an appraisal before purchasing is a good idea and one that if we decide on this stone, I will do.

I''m going to look at a 2.27, D, SI1 in a few hours and I''m really thinking that it will be the winner, but I haven''t totally decided against the first stone I posted yet either.
 
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